Re: [Ayatana] Comments on the Device User Menu specs
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/08/unity-oneiric-changes-august/ Hate so many mounted drives cluttering up your Launcher? You can now specify when to hide mounted drives and partitions via the ‘Experimental’ tab in CCSM. (See screenshot below) ! A big hug from Australia to whoever did this! 3 - Original Message - From: David da...@kvr.com.au To: nick rundy nru...@hotmail.com, ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Sent: Wednesday, 3 August, 2011 3:00:19 AM Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Comments on the Device User Menu specs Would it be possible to have: Power users show mounted icons on launcher Like the old: gnome show mounted devices on desktop ? I prefer having neither showing as I usually only access my device once after I plug it in, and it can appear poorly organised if there are 4+ devices mounted showing in the launcher. - ikt - Original Message - From: nick rundy nru...@hotmail.com To: m...@ubuntu.com, ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Sent: Wednesday, 3 August, 2011 12:45:53 AM Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Comments on the Device User Menu specs We might drop the launcher visibility of mounted drives, based on user testing. NO! I PREY this doesn't happen. I LOVE having mounted devices show up in the Launcher. I also love having an icon show on the Desktop. The desktop icon always reminds me I have something mounted when I close my windows. And I routinely access the launcher icon of mounted devices. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Comments on the Device User Menu specs
Hi Jeremy, thanks for your mail. On 02/08/11 00:35, Jeremy Bicha wrote: Since I help out on the Documentation Team, I value clear user interface terminology so that users, powerusers, and maybe even developers can use the same, understandable language. The old session menu name became unclear when System Settings was added to it, but I have to say that device menu is an even worse name. I strongly prefer calling this menu the system menu since the items here are generally system actions or configurations. Also, it's parallel to the power menu having a power settings button and the sound menu having a sound settings button. +1 from me. I'd like to hear MPT's opinion on this, but if he raises no objections consider that an approval to move forward. If he does, I'll be glad to resolve it one way or the other. http://pad.lv/815077 was reported about the lack of a Restart button. It appears as though the spec is that Restart will only be shown if restart-required updates have not been applied. A typical user will want to restart to Windows or OS X. A fair number of developers have another Ubuntu install or Linux distribution they would like to reboot to use. Requiring users to log out before they restart seems to make a common usecase more frustrating. If the desire is to reduce menu option clutter, I suggest keeping the option as Shut Down (or Power Off might be a good descriptive alternative). And then use a pop-up like Gnome Shell to allow Restart, Shutdown (automatic after 60 seconds), or Cancel. See http://i.imgur.com/lLPoL.png +1 also. Login Items (Startup Applications) has only a very narrow, power user use case especially in its current condition. I have never used it for anything useful. For power users, it's easily findable in the Dash. Agreed. Since Bluetooth has its own menu, it definitely should not be in the system menu. Many computers don't have bluetooth support anyway. Honestly, I strongly question the need to have direct links here to individual panels of System Settings. The most common options (Power, Bluetooth, Sound, etc.) already are consistently at the bottom of their respective menus. Displays also should just work for most people; for others, set once and then always work. Bluetooth will either move to the new menu, or stay special-cased on the panel, not both. Devices sounds like it should also include the ability to unmount removable drives, but perhaps this is a conflict with the Places Lens thing. We might drop the launcher visibility of mounted drives, based on user testing. I very much like having System Settings at the top of the system menu and the Lock/Sleep/Power options at the buttom. I also like the Software Updates status incorporated into the system menu. Thanks :-) Mark ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Comments on the Device User Menu specs
2011/8/2 Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com http://pad.lv/815077If the desire is to reduce menu option clutter, I suggest keeping the option as Shut Down (or Power Off might be a good descriptive alternative). And then use a pop-up like Gnome Shell to allow Restart, Shutdown (automatic after 60 seconds), or Cancel. See http://i.imgur.com/lLPoL.png Sounds good :) Moving on to the user menu, Online Accounts is not a very useful menu item. For me the UserMenu seems to be the new MeMenu → most people won't use it because it contains none useful items for them but takes a lot of screen space. I would prefer an 'Accounts' entry in the SystemMenu to switch to other accounts and in the system settings an entry 'Online Accounts' (since I have to configure it only once - there is no need to access it often). For the device section of the SystemMenu I suggest to use icons and put them in a row (saves space - same functionality). Most times you know the devices plugged into your computer so an icon will indicate it sufficiently without cluttering the menu to much. Kind Regards Thibaut ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Comments on the Device User Menu specs
We might drop the launcher visibility of mounted drives, based on user testing. NO! I PREY this doesn't happen. I LOVE having mounted devices show up in the Launcher. I also love having an icon show on the Desktop. The desktop icon always reminds me I have something mounted when I close my windows. And I routinely access the launcher icon of mounted devices. I complained to Microsoft that Windows 7 does not show an icon for attached USB thumb drives in the Taskbar =) Having mounted devices show up in the Launcher is one of the things that gave it a big PLUS over Windows in my evaluation of the two OSs. http://pad.lv/815077 was reported about the lack of a Restart button. It appears as though the spec is that Restart will only be shown if restart-required updates have not been applied. A typical user will want to restart to Windows or OS X. A fair number of developers have another Ubuntu install or Linux distribution they would like to reboot to use. Requiring users to log out before they restart seems to make a common usecase more frustrating. If the desire is to reduce menu option clutter, I suggest keeping the option as Shut Down (or Power Off might be a good descriptive alternative). And then use a pop-up like Gnome Shell to allow Restart, Shutdown (automatic after 60 seconds), or Cancel. See http://i.imgur.com/lLPoL.png I really hope common sense is used here. One of the biggest reasons I dumped gnome3-shell for Unity was because of the crazy design Gnome used in the session menu. They make it so complicated to shutdown and restart the computer. IMHO Gnome-3 has made a lot of horrible design choices. Their design of the Session Menu is but one example. If it wasn't for Unity, I would have surely left the Gnome environment for KDE or some as yet undiscovered desktop. The # 1 way I shutdown and restart the computer (which are commands I use regularly) is via keyboard shortcut. On Ubuntu 10.04 I hit: super + S, up-arrow, enter. I use this command multiple times a day. It is quick and very fast, requiring little effort. In addition, one of the first things I do when installing Ubuntu is DISABLE the Shutdown Confirmation Dialog Prompt (gconf-editor apps indicator-session suppress_logout_restart_shutdown) that asks me to verify the command I just selected. When I select Shutdown, it infuriates me to have a dialog pop up asking me if I want to do what I just said to do. Adding a popup window in order to shutdown and restart just makes the process more complicated and requires more effort. It also creates the appearance of more activity, which is less calming. I believe the classic setup is best. The Session Menu should contain explicit options for Log Out, Suspend, Restart, and Shutdown that can be accessed quickly from keyboard shortcut. If space is needed or clutter needs to be controlled, the last things to touch should be: Log Out, Suspend, Restart, and Shutdown. These should be the core/foundation commands for this menu. Requiring a popup would kill this functionality. The exception I could see would be if a keyboard shortcut (e.g., super + S) is all that is needed to bring up the popup menu. Then the user could hit: Super + S and the popup menu would instantly appear and the user could then use the arrow-key + Enter to select his choice. But I'm reluctant to see more popups and prefer the Ubuntu 10.04 designed Session Menu. Popups get tiring. The way the Session Menu exists in Ubuntu 10.04 strikes users as more integrated and stable. It is a good design. Hopefully 11.10 will start using it again. I very much like having System Settings at the top of the system menu and the Lock/Sleep/Power options at the buttom. I also like the Software Updates status incorporated into the system menu. I was overjoyed to see screenshots of Oneiric showing Shut Down as being the last item in the Session Menu again. This makes use of keyboard shortcuts to control the session a LOT easier to use. these aren't just minor issues to me. these functions are critical to how I use my computer and why I choose to use the OS I did. Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 09:17:00 +0100 From: m...@ubuntu.com To: jbi...@ubuntu.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Comments on the Device User Menu specs Hi Jeremy, thanks for your mail. On 02/08/11 00:35, Jeremy Bicha wrote: Since I help out on the Documentation Team, I value clear user interface terminology so that users, powerusers, and maybe even developers can use the same, understandable language. The old session menu name became unclear when System Settings was added to it, but I have to say that device menu is an even worse name. I strongly prefer calling this menu the system menu since the items here are generally system actions or configurations. Also, it's parallel to the power menu having a power settings button and the sound menu
Re: [Ayatana] Comments on the Device User Menu specs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mark Shuttleworth wrote on 02/08/11 09:17: Hi Jeremy, thanks for your mail. On 02/08/11 00:35, Jeremy Bicha wrote: Since I help out on the Documentation Team, I value clear user interface terminology so that users, powerusers, and maybe even developers can use the same, understandable language. The old session menu name became unclear when System Settings was added to it, but I have to say that device menu is an even worse name. I strongly prefer calling this menu the system menu since the items here are generally system actions or configurations. Also, it's parallel to the power menu having a power settings button and the sound menu having a sound settings button. +1 from me. I'd like to hear MPT's opinion on this, but if he raises no objections consider that an approval to move forward. If he does, I'll be glad to resolve it one way or the other. Unlike the sound, messaging, and clock menus, this menu isn't referred to by name in any external settings panels. So the effect of any name will be quite small as long as the Ubuntu help is well-hidden. That said, I see a benefit and a drawback of calling it the system menu. The benefit is that it will be a little more familiar for people who didn't use 11.04, but who did use an earlier version that had a System menu containing similar items. (For example, people upgrading from 10.04 LTS to 12.04 LTS.) The drawback is that it will seem awkward that we have a system menu with a title that is an icon, but isn't the Ubuntu logo. http://pad.lv/815077 was reported about the lack of a Restart button. It appears as though the spec is that Restart will only be shown if restart-required updates have not been applied. A typical user will want to restart to Windows or OS X. A fair number of developers have another Ubuntu install or Linux distribution they would like to reboot to use. Requiring users to log out before they restart seems to make a common usecase more frustrating. If the desire is to reduce menu option clutter, I suggest keeping the option as Shut Down (or Power Off might be a good descriptive alternative). And then use a pop-up like Gnome Shell to allow Restart, Shutdown (automatic after 60 seconds), or Cancel. See http://i.imgur.com/lLPoL.png +1 also. ... Last week I saw visual design work for a new shutdown screen that had no Restart button. So I checked this with John, and discovered that I had misunderstood his design. The intent is for there to be no unprompted Restart command, in the shutdown dialog or anywhere else. The only restart interface is supposed to be in prompts, for example in the Update Manager dialog telling you that updates requiring restart have completed. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk43+REACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrg8QCfa+T6ln5pSU9Q+QzaHjBcQeGd zDcAn3Zn5UcyOsgyA7iLeuyoGxqxFc+G =TgDE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Comments on the Device User Menu specs
Would it be possible to have: Power users show mounted icons on launcher Like the old: gnome show mounted devices on desktop ? I prefer having neither showing as I usually only access my device once after I plug it in, and it can appear poorly organised if there are 4+ devices mounted showing in the launcher. - ikt - Original Message - From: nick rundy nru...@hotmail.com To: m...@ubuntu.com, ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Sent: Wednesday, 3 August, 2011 12:45:53 AM Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Comments on the Device User Menu specs We might drop the launcher visibility of mounted drives, based on user testing. NO! I PREY this doesn't happen. I LOVE having mounted devices show up in the Launcher. I also love having an icon show on the Desktop. The desktop icon always reminds me I have something mounted when I close my windows. And I routinely access the launcher icon of mounted devices. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ayatana] Comments on the Device User Menu specs
Hi, I appreciate the ongoing design work to make the system status menus (indicators) more logical and hopefully more useful. I have some suggested improvements and thought bringing it up in an email might be more useful than opening several individual bugs. For clarity, this is the spec I'm referring to below: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeviceMenuAndUserMenu Since I help out on the Documentation Team, I value clear user interface terminology so that users, powerusers, and maybe even developers can use the same, understandable language. The old session menu name became unclear when System Settings was added to it, but I have to say that device menu is an even worse name. I strongly prefer calling this menu the system menu since the items here are generally system actions or configurations. Also, it's parallel to the power menu having a power settings button and the sound menu having a sound settings button. http://pad.lv/815077 was reported about the lack of a Restart button. It appears as though the spec is that Restart will only be shown if restart-required updates have not been applied. A typical user will want to restart to Windows or OS X. A fair number of developers have another Ubuntu install or Linux distribution they would like to reboot to use. Requiring users to log out before they restart seems to make a common usecase more frustrating. If the desire is to reduce menu option clutter, I suggest keeping the option as Shut Down (or Power Off might be a good descriptive alternative). And then use a pop-up like Gnome Shell to allow Restart, Shutdown (automatic after 60 seconds), or Cancel. See http://i.imgur.com/lLPoL.png Login Items (Startup Applications) has only a very narrow, power user use case especially in its current condition. I have never used it for anything useful. For power users, it's easily findable in the Dash. Since Bluetooth has its own menu, it definitely should not be in the system menu. Many computers don't have bluetooth support anyway. Honestly, I strongly question the need to have direct links here to individual panels of System Settings. The most common options (Power, Bluetooth, Sound, etc.) already are consistently at the bottom of their respective menus. Displays also should just work for most people; for others, set once and then always work. Devices sounds like it should also include the ability to unmount removable drives, but perhaps this is a conflict with the Places Lens thing. I very much like having System Settings at the top of the system menu and the Lock/Sleep/Power options at the buttom. I also like the Software Updates status incorporated into the system menu. Moving on to the user menu, Online Accounts is not a very useful menu item. I mean, it's nice to know that it's available (especially as it's a brand new feature) but it should basically just be a one-time action to set it up, especially if Gnome 3.2 ships with only Google enabled as a choice (it's not completely clear whether Facebook Twitter will be turned on by default by Gnome this cycle). However, definitely very useful would be a My Account button which enables users to easily set their password, account picture, language, or add another account. Gnome Shell has this in their menu and here's the screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/Fcjd1.png Thanks for the chance to comment. Jeremy Bicha ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ayatana] Comments on the Device User Menu specs
Hi, I appreciate the ongoing design work to make the system status menu (indicator) area more logical and hopefully more useful. I have some suggested improvements and thought bringing it up in an email might be more useful than opening several individual bugs. For clarity, this is the spec I'm referring to below: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeviceMenuAndUserMenu Since I help out on the Documentation Team, I value clear user interface terminology so that users, powerusers, and maybe even developers can use the same, understandable language. The old session menu name became unclear when System Settings was added to it, but I have to say that device menu is an even worse name. I strongly prefer calling this menu the system menu since the items here are generally system actions or configurations. Also, it's parallel to the power menu having a power settings button and the sound menu having a sound settings button. http://pad.lv/815077 was reported about the lack of a Restart button. It appears as though the spec is that Restart will only be shown if restart-required updates have not been applied. A typical user will want to restart to Windows or OS X. A fair number of developers have another Ubuntu install or Linux distribution they would like to reboot to use. Requiring users to log out before they restart seems to make a common usecase more frustrating. If the desire is to reduce menu option clutter, I suggest keeping the option as Shut Down (or Power Off might be a good descriptive alternative). And then use a pop-up like Gnome Shell to allow Restart, Shutdown (automatic after 60 seconds), or Cancel. See http://i.imgur.com/lLPoL.png Login Items (Startup Applications) has only a very narrow, power user use case especially in its current condition. I have never used it for anything useful. For power users, it's easily findable in the Dash. Since Bluetooth has its own menu, it definitely should not be in the system menu. Many computers don't have bluetooth support anyway. Honestly, I strongly question the need to have direct links here to individual panels of System Settings. The most common options (Power, Bluetooth, Sound, etc.) already are consistently at the bottom of their respective menus. Displays also should just work for most people; for others, set once and then always work. Devices sounds like it should also include the ability to unmount removable drives, but perhaps this is a conflict with the Places Lens thing. I very much like having System Settings at the top of the system menu and the Lock/Sleep/Power options at the buttom. I also like the Software Updates status incorporated into the system menu. Moving on to the user menu, Online Accounts is not a very useful menu item. I mean, it's nice to know that it's available but it should basically just be a one-time action to set it up, especially if Gnome 3.2 ships with only Google enabled as a choice (it's not completely clear whether Facebook Twitter will be turned on by default by Gnome this cycle). However, definitely very useful would be a My Account button which enables users to easily set their password, account picture, language, or add another account. Here's another Gnome Shell screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/Fcjd1.png Thanks for the chance to comment. Jeremy Bicha ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
