Re: [Ayatana] Ideas for scrollbar's light themes
Hello mpt, On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 16:53, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.comwrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martín A. Casco wrote on 16/01/11 13:22: ... With the last release of Elementary theme, authors include a modd for Scrollbars.. No Steppers. The argument: Users normally don't use them, just use mouse scroll or handle scrollbars. well I think that's true, at least in most cases. I don't think you, or they, have any idea how often people use them. http://imgur.com/6ETb4 that's nice ;) I can confirm, many Users i observed feel safer with using scrollbars. Also, with the mouse wheel, the larger the page is, the slower scrolling becomes, compared to using a scrolling interface that allows navigating the entire page with one gesture. In other words: Users often prefer scrollbars, since the scrollwheel would mean scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll... which can go on forever on large pages, while with the scrollbar it's always aim-click-drag-release. Martín A. Casco wrote on 16/01/11 13:39: Well, for my last mail I've been thinking. Maybe 3 steppers for each scrollbar could be more simple. If we are on the top off apps with the mouse and want to use upper stepper we have to go down with the mouse (thats the concept of my first mockup), this solution its not better at all. So maybe this mockup represents better the concept of simplicity on scrollbar's steppers. ... That's what KDE does. But it goes against the principle of parsimony: having two similarly accessible methods of doing the same thing slows people down, by making them dither. (For example, it's okay to have a title bar close button and a Close menu item, but having two close buttons is bad. Similarly, having two scroll-up buttons would be bad.) yes, i remember okham's razor, parsimony is a great term in this context. We also speak of the path of the water sometimes in different domains, e.g. military strategy or social theories. People will pick the easiest way, and confronted with many, they might get confused initially. But the learning time is short, considering that the icons are not similar but truely identical. It's a question of comfort, and i can imagine it to be much more convenient to have redundant scrollbar steppers, and to have the ones on the bottom together. In the larger software suites i use for audio engineering, scrollbar steppers are close to zoomcontrols, or even function as zoomcontrols when dragged. This is a major challenge for each competitor in the sector of audio engineering suites, since overview, pan, zoom, content navigation are the most frequently used features, even before all the edit features. In a busy day, you might lose up to an hour to poor interaction design in this area. I am quite confident that the current direction of Ubuntu will give it a great UI, that can easily compete with the IxD of the professional software suites out there.. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ideas for scrollbar's light themes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martín A. Casco wrote on 16/01/11 13:22: ... With the last release of Elementary theme, authors include a modd for Scrollbars.. No Steppers. The argument: Users normally don't use them, just use mouse scroll or handle scrollbars. well I think that's true, at least in most cases. I don't think you, or they, have any idea how often people use them. http://imgur.com/6ETb4 But, in NON GTK apps, like LibreOffice, have some problems with that modd. The only solution for elementary it's include steppers. If we think in the actual light themes ( and I don't know if there are any plans about this) have steppers, they are separate and if we want to use theme we have to make a considerable movement for up and down. So, why don't put them together? I've made a mockup only for vertically scrollbars (sorry), but the Idea it's have theme for horizontal scrollbars to. This will make that the 4 steppers will be in the same area and if we want to use them are more easy, fast an simple.. ... That's a great idea. Probably there would be the same problem with non-native applications like LibreOffice and Firefox, though. They would need their own code to recognize the arrows-together setting. Martín A. Casco wrote on 16/01/11 13:39: Well, for my last mail I've been thinking. Maybe 3 steppers for each scrollbar could be more simple. If we are on the top off apps with the mouse and want to use upper stepper we have to go down with the mouse (thats the concept of my first mockup), this solution its not better at all. So maybe this mockup represents better the concept of simplicity on scrollbar's steppers. ... That's what KDE does. But it goes against the principle of parsimony: having two similarly accessible methods of doing the same thing slows people down, by making them dither. (For example, it's okay to have a title bar close button and a Close menu item, but having two close buttons is bad. Similarly, having two scroll-up buttons would be bad.) - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1BlNwACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpy0QCeO9TQD1dfn//D/HqAGDgutCV9 rsgAn2KZvFSMVyOb6cv9sf4S9B7NwW4w =d2iH -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ideas for scrollbar's light themes
On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 16:53, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.comwrote: Martín A. Casco wrote on 16/01/11 13:39: Well, for my last mail I've been thinking. Maybe 3 steppers for each scrollbar could be more simple. If we are on the top off apps with the mouse and want to use upper stepper we have to go down with the mouse (thats the concept of my first mockup), this solution its not better at all. So maybe this mockup represents better the concept of simplicity on scrollbar's steppers. ... That's what KDE does. But it goes against the principle of parsimony: having two similarly accessible methods of doing the same thing slows people down, by making them dither. (For example, it's okay to have a title bar close button and a Close menu item, but having two close buttons is bad. Similarly, having two scroll-up buttons would be bad.) In an ideal world, yes. In our world, we need workarounds for all kinds of problems, such as misrepresentation of content or antiquted vertical and horizontal panning widgets. In this case, i think it is better to see a duplication of methods as the method itself. We already have scrollbar steppers all over the place in multiple open windows at a time, sometimes overlapping, and i think that makes it irrelevant whether they appear once or 100times within one window. At the end of the day, ideas from ZUI and Semantic Scaling will make content navigation easier, scrollbars will appear on demand if at alll, they will be transparent and they will offer semantic relationships to the content they are meant to help navigate. imo. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
