Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] John Dutra baptism
Only Ancestry.com and VitalSearch has the California birth, marriage, and death indices. All are paid subscription sites. There could be portions that are free. You can try Joe Beine's Death Indexes at www.deathindexes.com He has all 50 states and states which are free and which are paid. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] John Dutra baptism
Hi Cheri, Is there a link for the CA. Birth and Death Indexes? If so could you send me. Thx mucho Liz On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 9:49 AM, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Bill, I have a lot of experience with the California Birth Index and the California Death Index. First, a mini lesson on sources. 1) Primary Sources: Something that is generated AT THE TIME of the event. For example, a birth certificate is a primary source for a birth. A death certificate is a primary source for a death. The U.S. Federal census can be considered a primary source for residence. 2) Secondary Sources: Something that is generated AFTER the event. For example, a birth date obtained from a death certificate. If a person is born in 1905 and that date appears on a 1940 document, then it's not a primary source. Birth and death indices are created by the state (at least in California) by people (same is true for the Social Security Death Index). To err is human. So an index can have an error. I suppose technically, the CA Birth and Death Indices are not a source. I utilize them as a source in my genealogy program because I don't have the money to order a birth or death on every ancestor I find. I don't do only my direct line. I try to get the whole family (siblings and grandkids). But these indices are not my only source. If I'm using the CA Birth Index as a source, I try to have 1-2 others agree with this source. If they don't agree, I have a lot of sources on 1 event! In all my work with the indices, I've found a mistake once. (What I mean by that is they've typed the wrong month of death in the death index). Overall, pretty accurate! The CA Birth and Death Indices are getting their information from the Birth or Death Certificate. That certificate has an informant on it, who gave the information. The earlier ones don't ask the name of the informant. The later ones do. The information is only as good as what the informant provides given the circumstances. Example of a Death Certificate from 1961 in CA: Informant is the wife. Right off the bat, I question EVERYTHING on the death certificate except the death. The spouse just died. How upset is the wife? Is the wife an immigrant too and whose information is she giving? The death for my ancestor in 1961 gives the wrong date of birth, states he was a U.S. citizen (he wasn't, but his wife was), and something else I can't remember. Example of a Death Certificate from 1992 in CA: Informant was the son. The death wasn't expected. I should probably question everything, except the informant was my dad. Almost everything checked out. By 1992, CA wanted to know how many years of education the deceased had. It said 12th grade. I asked my dad. My dad said he was never asked that question at all, as he knew his father only went to 8th grade. No hesitation in answering that question at all. Someone forgot to ask my dad and just took a guess. Example of a Birth Certificate in 1912 in CA: Informants weren't listed in 1912. There still were informants, we just don't know who they were. On my grandfather's birth, it lists his dad as his dad, and his paternal grandmother as his mom. Huh, what? She never came to America. I never understood why or how that happened. One day, I pulled his birth and was looking at it again. I noted there was no box or line to list an informant. At first, I told myself the informant was the mom. Then I thought about it and said, no, moms were told to rest. Then it dawned on me. It was dad. They asked dad (the immigrant) for the information. Being the proud papa, he gave the baby's name and even gave his name. When they asked him the name of the mother, he gave the name of the mother - HIS MOTHER! After all, Gloria was his wife. He misunderstood given the level of his English skills at that time. Bill, you're going to have to narrow down the freguesia first. Could the attached record by your Joao? Maybe. My immigrant ancestor generally had his month and day right, but he gave the years of 1884, 1885, 1886, and 1887! Who says the person giving Joao's information wasn't off by a year or 2? Maybe your Joao was indeed born Aug 15th...but in 1904 or 1906. If your ancestor didn't naturalize, he probably lived long enough to register when the Smith Act took place in June, 1940. We call that Alien Registration. You need to order his naturalization information or his Alien Registration information from the USCIS. In it, he will hopefully give his correct freguesia. If not, you'll get at least the island, maybe the council. You are probably searching 50 freguesias in the central island group, hoping for the right one. Start with your ancestor's death in Orange Co, CA and work back in time. If you hit his immigration into America and get that date, you might get lucky and be able to hire Joao Ventura, the archivist in Terceira to search
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] John Dutra baptism
Elizabeth Cheri: NorCal Genealogy provides the following: http://www.sfgenealogy.com/norcal/caldata.htm#calvitals Some of what is listed are free, and quite good. Denis Meals On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Elizabeth Migliori lizmi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Cheri, Is there a link for the CA. Birth and Death Indexes? If so could you send me. Thx mucho Liz On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 9:49 AM, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Bill, I have a lot of experience with the California Birth Index and the California Death Index. First, a mini lesson on sources. 1) Primary Sources: Something that is generated AT THE TIME of the event. For example, a birth certificate is a primary source for a birth. A death certificate is a primary source for a death. The U.S. Federal census can be considered a primary source for residence. 2) Secondary Sources: Something that is generated AFTER the event. For example, a birth date obtained from a death certificate. If a person is born in 1905 and that date appears on a 1940 document, then it's not a primary source. Birth and death indices are created by the state (at least in California) by people (same is true for the Social Security Death Index). To err is human. So an index can have an error. I suppose technically, the CA Birth and Death Indices are not a source. I utilize them as a source in my genealogy program because I don't have the money to order a birth or death on every ancestor I find. I don't do only my direct line. I try to get the whole family (siblings and grandkids). But these indices are not my only source. If I'm using the CA Birth Index as a source, I try to have 1-2 others agree with this source. If they don't agree, I have a lot of sources on 1 event! In all my work with the indices, I've found a mistake once. (What I mean by that is they've typed the wrong month of death in the death index). Overall, pretty accurate! The CA Birth and Death Indices are getting their information from the Birth or Death Certificate. That certificate has an informant on it, who gave the information. The earlier ones don't ask the name of the informant. The later ones do. The information is only as good as what the informant provides given the circumstances. Example of a Death Certificate from 1961 in CA: Informant is the wife. Right off the bat, I question EVERYTHING on the death certificate except the death. The spouse just died. How upset is the wife? Is the wife an immigrant too and whose information is she giving? The death for my ancestor in 1961 gives the wrong date of birth, states he was a U.S. citizen (he wasn't, but his wife was), and something else I can't remember. Example of a Death Certificate from 1992 in CA: Informant was the son. The death wasn't expected. I should probably question everything, except the informant was my dad. Almost everything checked out. By 1992, CA wanted to know how many years of education the deceased had. It said 12th grade. I asked my dad. My dad said he was never asked that question at all, as he knew his father only went to 8th grade. No hesitation in answering that question at all. Someone forgot to ask my dad and just took a guess. Example of a Birth Certificate in 1912 in CA: Informants weren't listed in 1912. There still were informants, we just don't know who they were. On my grandfather's birth, it lists his dad as his dad, and his paternal grandmother as his mom. Huh, what? She never came to America. I never understood why or how that happened. One day, I pulled his birth and was looking at it again. I noted there was no box or line to list an informant. At first, I told myself the informant was the mom. Then I thought about it and said, no, moms were told to rest. Then it dawned on me. It was dad. They asked dad (the immigrant) for the information. Being the proud papa, he gave the baby's name and even gave his name. When they asked him the name of the mother, he gave the name of the mother - HIS MOTHER! After all, Gloria was his wife. He misunderstood given the level of his English skills at that time. Bill, you're going to have to narrow down the freguesia first. Could the attached record by your Joao? Maybe. My immigrant ancestor generally had his month and day right, but he gave the years of 1884, 1885, 1886, and 1887! Who says the person giving Joao's information wasn't off by a year or 2? Maybe your Joao was indeed born Aug 15th...but in 1904 or 1906. If your ancestor didn't naturalize, he probably lived long enough to register when the Smith Act took place in June, 1940. We call that Alien Registration. You need to order his naturalization information or his Alien Registration information from the USCIS. In it, he will hopefully give his correct freguesia. If not, you'll get at least the island, maybe the council. You are probably searching 50 freguesias in the central
[AZORES-Genealogy] John Dutra baptism
What would be the source for the date of birth information on the California Death Registry? Is it simply word from family members or based on some kind of passport or other documentation. I am hoping the attached baptism is my grandfather, but some dates are causing me grief. After searching extensively for my grandfathers baptism based on a 15 Aug 1905 date of birth as recorded in the California Death registry in 1940, I finally found what I believe to be his baptism, but the date of birth is 20 Dec 1904. since I didn't know where he was born, I think I searched from 15 Aug to the end of the year for many of the parishes in the entire central island group starting with Ribeirinha since I knew he lived there once. Now if find that one more click to get me to the first baptism of 1905 after finishing 1904 and I would have found this a year ago. The baptism is at http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-RIBEIRINHA-B-1900-1911/TER-AH-RIBEIRINHA-B-1900-1911_item1/P228.html Pasted below is the California death registry information from Familysearch.org I also note the mother's name is listed as Dejesus, but his mother in the baptism is Maria da Esperança. Name:*John Dutra* https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VG58-JZ2 Event Type: Death Event Date: 09 Oct 1940 Event Place: Orange, California, United States Birth Date: 15 Aug 1905 Birthplace: Other Country Gender: Male Father's Name:*Dutra* https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VG58-JZL Mother's Name: *Dejesus* https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VG58-JZG Thanks for any insight or advice, Bill Seidler -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] John Dutra baptism
Hi Bill, I have a lot of experience with the California Birth Index and the California Death Index. First, a mini lesson on sources. 1) Primary Sources: Something that is generated AT THE TIME of the event. For example, a birth certificate is a primary source for a birth. A death certificate is a primary source for a death. The U.S. Federal census can be considered a primary source for residence. 2) Secondary Sources: Something that is generated AFTER the event. For example, a birth date obtained from a death certificate. If a person is born in 1905 and that date appears on a 1940 document, then it's not a primary source. Birth and death indices are created by the state (at least in California) by people (same is true for the Social Security Death Index). To err is human. So an index can have an error. I suppose technically, the CA Birth and Death Indices are not a source. I utilize them as a source in my genealogy program because I don't have the money to order a birth or death on every ancestor I find. I don't do only my direct line. I try to get the whole family (siblings and grandkids). But these indices are not my only source. If I'm using the CA Birth Index as a source, I try to have 1-2 others agree with this source. If they don't agree, I have a lot of sources on 1 event! In all my work with the indices, I've found a mistake once. (What I mean by that is they've typed the wrong month of death in the death index). Overall, pretty accurate! The CA Birth and Death Indices are getting their information from the Birth or Death Certificate. That certificate has an informant on it, who gave the information. The earlier ones don't ask the name of the informant. The later ones do. The information is only as good as what the informant provides given the circumstances. Example of a Death Certificate from 1961 in CA: Informant is the wife. Right off the bat, I question EVERYTHING on the death certificate except the death. The spouse just died. How upset is the wife? Is the wife an immigrant too and whose information is she giving? The death for my ancestor in 1961 gives the wrong date of birth, states he was a U.S. citizen (he wasn't, but his wife was), and something else I can't remember. Example of a Death Certificate from 1992 in CA: Informant was the son. The death wasn't expected. I should probably question everything, except the informant was my dad. Almost everything checked out. By 1992, CA wanted to know how many years of education the deceased had. It said 12th grade. I asked my dad. My dad said he was never asked that question at all, as he knew his father only went to 8th grade. No hesitation in answering that question at all. Someone forgot to ask my dad and just took a guess. Example of a Birth Certificate in 1912 in CA: Informants weren't listed in 1912. There still were informants, we just don't know who they were. On my grandfather's birth, it lists his dad as his dad, and his paternal grandmother as his mom. Huh, what? She never came to America. I never understood why or how that happened. One day, I pulled his birth and was looking at it again. I noted there was no box or line to list an informant. At first, I told myself the informant was the mom. Then I thought about it and said, no, moms were told to rest. Then it dawned on me. It was dad. They asked dad (the immigrant) for the information. Being the proud papa, he gave the baby's name and even gave his name. When they asked him the name of the mother, he gave the name of the mother - HIS MOTHER! After all, Gloria was his wife. He misunderstood given the level of his English skills at that time. Bill, you're going to have to narrow down the freguesia first. Could the attached record by your Joao? Maybe. My immigrant ancestor generally had his month and day right, but he gave the years of 1884, 1885, 1886, and 1887! Who says the person giving Joao's information wasn't off by a year or 2? Maybe your Joao was indeed born Aug 15th...but in 1904 or 1906. If your ancestor didn't naturalize, he probably lived long enough to register when the Smith Act took place in June, 1940. We call that Alien Registration. You need to order his naturalization information or his Alien Registration information from the USCIS. In it, he will hopefully give his correct freguesia. If not, you'll get at least the island, maybe the council. You are probably searching 50 freguesias in the central island group, hoping for the right one. Start with your ancestor's death in Orange Co, CA and work back in time. If you hit his immigration into America and get that date, you might get lucky and be able to hire Joao Ventura, the archivist in Terceira to search the passaportes out of Angra for the time period you ancestor could have sailed. But note that I said lucky. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options,
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] John Dutra baptism
Here's a webinar next Friday by someone with the USCIS on the immigration and naturalization records: http://goo.gl/PxRazK Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
