Re: [backstage] All streamable programmes
At 22:46 +0100 15/5/06, James Cridland wrote: .ra are real player media files, that is - they contain the actual streaming audio data. .ram is a playlist text format, which can have one or multiple lines, on each line is the URL to an audio or video stream Linking to .ram is preferred ...though, in most cases, users get a better deal if they are linked to an embedded player within a browser, rather than a direct link to the audio. I can't speak for the BBC, but certainly when you make the Virgin Radio player appear ( www.virginradio.co.uk/listen on any PC) Ahem. The live.pls file was (correctly?) sent to iTunes from Firefox. I am listening as I type this:-) I am on a G5 Mac with Mac OS X, and silly stick speakers. [playlist] NumberOfEntries=3 File1=http://mp3-vr-32.smgradio.com:80/ Title1=Virgin Radio 1215AM, LIVE from London [HBR](peered - 8x.1xxx.1xx.3x) File2=http://vruk.sc.llnwd.net:12250 Title2=Virgin Radio 1215AM, LIVE from London - fallback [HBR](peered - 8x.1xxx.1xx.3x) File3=http://www.smgradio.com/core/audio/mp3/problems.mp3 Title3= I regularly listen to radio online e.g. http://www.resonancefm.com/ since the FM band in London is now almost useless due to pirate activity, but I digress you'll get now-playing information and a whole host of other information that it's hard to give within a direct link to a stream. And, yes, there's advertising in that player too (the revenue from which partly goes to the music rights holders). For this reason, and that of branding, it's better to link to the official player (and the code to do so is at www.virginradio.co.uk/thestation/linktous ). For a direct link to most media players within the UK, try http://www.mediauk.com/content/player.muk which contains almost all live streams. -- http://james.cridland.net/contacting_me/ I don't get much text in the iTunes window with from Virgin, or Resonance 104.4FM (sic), compared with text on my handy DAB radio. The information from Virgin (e.g. Now Playing) sits on the web browser. Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] All streamable programmes
Hiya We're working on this - goalposts keep moving, but as part of a prospective redesign of bbc.co.uk/radio, we hope to list all the shows, across all networks, that are available for streaming in the Radio Player (and then downloads too). They're currently available on network sites (e.g. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml) but we know we'd like to aggregate too ... iPlayer has complicated things somewhat - although will be neater in the long run - but we hope to tidy up /radio anyway over the next few months. D. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Moss Sent: 14 May 2006 10:55 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] All streamable programmes Hi, I'm probably being blind as a bat, BUT... Is there a list somewhere of all the programmes that are streamable ? i.e. I know working lunch is, and that's top, and the news sometimes is (although it's often yesterdays 10am news!) But I'm pretty sure Countryfile isn't, and wish it was (seperately; maybe a wishlist of streamable archive programmes would be good ?) So what other programmes are fully streamable ? It's so gotta be on a page someplace. Ian http://alteris.co.uk all things internet Manchester - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Last played songs?
Title: Re: [backstage] Last played songs? M Vinyl. Let me know if youve got spare turntables to get rid of. ;) I was over in your manor this morning but sadly didnt have time to stop by not that you were probably there in any case. I trust all is well in your world? On 16/5/06 2:12 pm, Dan Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And there's still the odd bit of vinyl etc. chucked in at the last minute - plus live outside broadcasts etc. Which means metadata input retrospectively, or thereabouts. As BBC radio shows are 'hand-built' rather than selected by track-rotation software, it's a bit tricky to get a 100% accurate live feed - but we're putting a fair bit of effort into making that available. We'll ideally be making this public, RSS and all, so everyone can play with it (inc Backstage!) - but lots of tech/workflow/user experience/legal issues to sort. You can see track playing data coming from these hard disk playout systems (via a circuitous route) in Flash tickers on a few of the radio sites e.g. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/ ... Obviously not ideal, or what you're looking for, but there's more development to follow. D. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tristan Ferne Sent: 15 May 2006 15:46 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Last played songs? Yes, there are plans to have feeds of recently played songs though I'm not sure what the timescale is. And I think there are rights issues around making this kind of information available. In the meantime you might want to have a look at http://www.last.fm/user/sekrit/ and its friends. Anyway, this is how I understand it works: production teams preload tracks onto the hard disk playout system (VCS) and the tracks are then played out in that order during the show - actually controlled by a couple of faders. The detail of exactly how it is used will change from show to show. At the moment we have Radios 1, 2, 1Xtra and 6Music running from VCS and, as you say, not everything is played out from VCS. Also a lot of late night shows (i.e. lots the specialist music stuff) are pre-recorded and loaded onto VCS as (e.g.) 2-hour chunks so we don't get the track info for these. But we're working on it... Tristan - Tristan Ferne Senior Development Producer (RD) BBC Radio Music Interactive From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 May 2006 19:29 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Last played songs? I was wondering if the BBC has any plans to have the last played songs made available on the website live, as they get played out, like they do on some other stations. Now that the BBC are (have already?) shifted towards VCS at BBC Radio 1 and 2 for playout of most of their things (I guess the specialist shows have to be manually play listed written after the show since they run off CDs and vinyl), surely its possible for some sort of thing to be done with the data that is collated by these systems for music license fee collection to be pushed to a feed as is done with the latest headlines on BBC News I am not 100% sure of the technical ins and outs of this, but surely something could be knocked up for people at Backstage to play with? For those in the know, Id be interested in how the playout systems and other things on the radio side work. i.e. what does a presenter do to play something? Do the presenters choose the order of the songs, or does their producer do it? That kind of thing Thanks - C -- louisa heinrich :: executive, BBCi broadcast centre bc5 c5 :: 201 wood lane :: london w12 7tp tel 0208 008 5841 :: mobile 07981 913 034
Re: [backstage] Last played songs?
On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 02:12:41PM +0100, Dan Hill wrote: And there's still the odd bit of vinyl etc. chucked in at the last minute - plus live outside broadcasts etc. Which means metadata input retrospectively, or thereabouts. As BBC radio shows are 'hand-built' rather than selected by track-rotation software, it's a bit tricky to get a 100% accurate live feed - but we're putting a fair bit of effort into making that available. It'd certianly be a very good start to get the feed set up without being 100%, then add more information to the existing API. That is, times when the input isn't from a track on the computer, just show CD Player 1, Vinyl 1, Mic 1, etc, with an attribute that it's not a real track. Don't forget to inclue the possibilty of multiple sources being live at once. Warn your users that new tags and attributes may show up later, and to expect multi-namespacing. Release early, release often. -=- James Mastros - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] All streamable programmes
Hi, Is there a list somewhere of all the programmes that are streamable ? i.e. I know working lunch is, and that's top, and the news sometimes is (although it's often yesterdays 10am news!) But I'm pretty sure Countryfile isn't, and wish it was (seperately; maybe a wishlist of streamable archive programmes would be good ?) So what other programmes are fully streamable ? It's so gotta be on a page someplace. Hmmm, I don't think there is. I'll try and find out if there's something we can do (for TV, you mean?). Yeah it was mainly for TV programmes I was thinking. Cheers for looking into it. Was also meaning for non-multicast as well I guess (i.e. Bulldog compatible :) Although obviously that's not the most efficient use of bandwidth. Cheers, Ian http://alteris.co.uk :all things internet: - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Last played songs?
On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 02:57:05PM +0100, Dan Hill wrote: Release early, release often. Indeed, although we're concentrating on 'mainstream' users for these feeds, rather than Backstage, so I'd rather we tended towards 100% and avoided unecessary studio info where possible. It may be that we have a fuller feed for Backstage etc. alongside. I think the general public would like partial info better then none too -- it's just fine for them if it sometimes shows up with (custom content). Even better if it knows what mics are live, and who is sitting in front of them, though obviously that'd require some extra work for producers (or engineers, depending on how the show works). The last 20% takes 80% of the time, but a large amount of your audience only cares about the first 80% anyway. IOW, when you can't figure out what's being played, just put in a placeholder. -=- James Mastros - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Last played songs?
Hi,I would like to add to this.If you look on the Pete Tong Radio 1 web-site, for example, you will see that a playlist is published as much as possible.Two points come to mind...1. If the shows are specialist then it is very important that the audience has this information.2. In which ever case, for the sake of the music business and new artists, there should never be a situation where this information is not documented for MCPS/PRS etc.. Therefore 80% actually online now, is far better than the odd piece missed, for everyone concerned. Anyway - what do those show producers do whilst on air?RegardsRichard EdwardsOn 16 May 2006, at 15:51, Kenneth Burrell-CAPITA wrote:Hi all I am a newbie and have been sitting on the side lines observing since signing up about a month ago. Fascinating stuff, even for someone who isn't a developer. From my years of experience having a dialogue with the BBC audience and information provision James is spot on. 100% is very ambitious and our experience of trying to get all output areas to provide all information for the audience, just in case, can be a waste of effort. I agree if it can be done automatically then fine, but if it requires manual effort then do not expect that it will (always) be done. Ken Ken BurrellBBC Information On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 02:57:05PM +0100, Dan Hill wrote: Release early, release often. Indeed, although we're concentrating on 'mainstream' users for these feeds, rather than Backstage, so I'd rather we tended towards 100% and avoided unecessary studio info where possible. It may be that we have a fuller feed for Backstage etc. alongside.I think the general public would like partial info better then none too --it's just fine for them if it sometimes shows up with "(custom content)".Even better if it knows what mics are live, and who is sitting in front ofthem, though obviously that'd require some extra work for producers (orengineers, depending on how the show works). The last 20% takes 80% of thetime, but a large amount of your audience only cares about the first 80%anyway. IOW, when you can't figure out what's being played, just put in aplaceholder. -=- James Mastros
RE: [backstage] Last played songs?
Please note I did say '*tend* towards 100%' :). You're both correct - and it's the kind of approach that led to us doing Radio Player in the first place, all those years ago, along with downloads and podcasts, Live Text to web, radio on DTVetc etc, so I'd say we're fairly well-versed with that approach. Some people say rather too well-versed. The threshold or sweet-spot is key i.e. in my view, it needs to be 'more than good enough'; but not such that it inhibits quick, agile, iterative deployment. As Ken also points out, the workflow issues are huge, and have to be managed correctly. Even in an automated system, someone, somewhere is going to have to be typing in track name, artist name etc.- even with CD ripper software underpinned by Musicbrainz etc etc. before the HD playouts ... This has to be carefully managed to as to introduce new levels of information around shows, without undermining the show production process. D/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kenneth Burrell-CAPITASent: 16 May 2006 15:52To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: RE: [backstage] Last played songs? Hi all I am a newbie and have been sitting on the side lines observing since signing up about a month ago. Fascinating stuff, even for someone who isn't a developer. From my years of experience having a dialogue with the BBC audience and information provision James is spot on. 100% is very ambitious and our experience of trying to get all output areas to provide all information for the audience, just in case, can be a waste of effort. I agree if it can be done automatically then fine, but if it requires manual effort then do not expect that it will (always) be done. Ken Ken Burrell BBC Information On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 02:57:05PM +0100, Dan Hill wrote: Release early, release often. Indeed, although we're concentrating on 'mainstream' users for these feeds, rather than Backstage, so I'd rather we tended towards 100% and avoided unecessary studio info where possible. It may be that we have a fuller feed for Backstage etc. alongside. I think the general public would like partial info better then none too -- it's just fine for them if it sometimes shows up with "(custom content)". Even better if it knows what mics are live, and who is sitting in front of them, though obviously that'd require some extra work for producers (or engineers, depending on how the show works). The last 20% takes 80% of the time, but a large amount of your audience only cares about the first 80% anyway. IOW, when you can't figure out what's being played, just put in a placeholder. -=- James Mastros
Re: [backstage] All streamable programmes
(Apologies: this is almost wholly off-topic.) On 5/16/06, Gordon Joly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 22:46 +0100 15/5/06, James Cridland wrote: I can't speak for the BBC, but certainly when you make the Virgin Radio player appear ( www.virginradio.co.uk/listen on any PC) Ahem. The live.pls file was (correctly?) sent to iTunes from Firefox. I am listening as I type this:-) The plan works. And yes, correctly, sent to iTunes from Firefox since you're on a Mac; while our internet radio player works just fine on a Mac with Windows Media Player installed, we can't check if it's installed and therefore don't serve it to you. Shame. NumberOfEntries=3 File1=http://mp3-vr-32.smgradio.com:80/ Title1=Virgin Radio 1215AM, LIVE from London [HBR](peered - 8x.1xxx.1xx.3x) The other thing that our player does is it does a quick bandwidth-check, and serves you the high bitrate stream if you can cope happily with it. We can't do that otherwise, so you've got the dirty 32k mono thing. Change the '32' to '128' and Bob's your uncle. Incidentally, this is one (the only?) benefit of the BBC using Real Player - trying to drag this thread back on-topic. Real includes some nifty bandwidth-sensing, and the same stream can serve anything from 8k to 800k. The BBC's are configured this way; also our only native Real streams auto-sense from 8k-32 to allow you to listen on a device over GPRS. Microsoft Windows Media does do some auto-sensing too, though these streams aren't very backward-compatible; our high-bitrate stream is auto-sensing from 20k up to 100k, from memory. I don't get much text in the iTunes window with from Virgin I don't think iTunes supports the in-player now playing text; oddly, Winamp does, so you do get some text there. Real can support this, kind of, using some odd format or an inbuilt browser window; Windows Media Player can send scripting events which is what we use for our radio player (in MSIE). compared with text on my handy DAB radio. Glad you like it; that's my department too. -- http://james.cridland.net/contacting_me/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] All streamable programmes
I like the Naked Scientists programme on Radio Cambridgeshire. Dan Hill wrote: Hiya We're working on this - goalposts keep moving, but as part of a prospective redesign of bbc.co.uk/radio, we hope to list all the shows, across all networks, that are available for streaming in the Radio Player (and then downloads too). They're currently available on network sites (e.g. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml) but we know we'd like to aggregate too ... iPlayer has complicated things somewhat - although will be neater in the long run - but we hope to tidy up /radio anyway over the next few months. D. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Moss Sent: 14 May 2006 10:55 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] All streamable programmes Hi, I'm probably being blind as a bat, BUT... Is there a list somewhere of all the programmes that are streamable ? i.e. I know working lunch is, and that's top, and the news sometimes is (although it's often yesterdays 10am news!) But I'm pretty sure Countryfile isn't, and wish it was (seperately; maybe a wishlist of streamable archive programmes would be good ?) So what other programmes are fully streamable ? It's so gotta be on a page someplace. Ian http://alteris.co.uk all things internet Manchester - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
