Re: [backstage] Publishing TV listings? BDS are after you...
Adam Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is another point of data collected and gathered using tax/license fee payers money, yet we can't access it without paying substantial fees. Until this changes small/spare time developers will not have the resources to create innovative web sites and ideas that BBC Backstage are trying to support. I have a TV schedule feed built directly from ITV's online data. ITV's online data is built quite well, it's a lot easier to work with than the TV Anytime stuff which is overly complex IMHO. I am considering republishing ITVs data marked up in uformats. It will be interesting to see if ITV complain about that. -- Nic Ferrier http://www.tapsellferrier.co.uk for all your tapsell ferrier needs - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Publishing TV listings? BDS are after you...
[Guardian cc'd as they have a Free Our Data column] On Fri, Jun 23, 2006 at 12:58:19AM +0100, Adam Leach wrote: This is another point of data collected and gathered using tax/license fee payers money, yet we can't access it without paying substantial fees. I presume the commercial channels' data isn't gathered via the licence fee though? The one part of this I *really* don't get is that accurate TV listing data is only going to generate more viewers. So why on earth would you want to restrict it? Surely the channels want users to have accurate up-to-date data in as many places as possible. It's like free advertising. I used to reformat the bleb.org data myself (for local use) into a format I much preferred but given bleb.org isn't supplying a full feed any more I'm stuck using the radio times site. I don't understand why they want to enforce this law or why it exists. Simon. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Publishing TV listings? BDS are after you...
Obviously BDS (along with other companies) have a business model which involves aggregating schedule data and supplying it to other parties. (Why is it I always think of something extra to say, after I've sent the email?) It's also worth remembering the history behind the particular Act of Parliament mentioned. It was brought about to end the situation where you had to buy two listings magazines - the TV Times and the Radio Times. This has, of course, created a burgeoning industry of listings magazines, all of which are sold for profit. Now obviously they add value to the proposition by the features and interviews, but the primary driver for buying those magazines is to get the listings. So your initial data provider could provide free data for someone else to make a profit on. Or it could get royalties. Of course that predates things like the internet :) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Publishing TV listings? BDS are after you...
The one part of this I *really* don't get is that accurate TV listing data is only going to generate more viewers. So why on earth would you want to restrict it? You would be amazed at how many similar situations there are to this - there was quite an interesting one recently where racecourses wanted more money to display their race details, and football fan sites have been threatened with legal action because they've displayed details of when matches are... Ultimately all data is produced by someone, and is usually released under certain restrictions. I don't understand why they want to enforce this law or why it exists. Well if depends what restrictions other companies have released their content in - which obviously we don't know what they are, and how they came to that. Obviously BDS (along with other companies) have a business model which involves aggregating schedule data and supplying it to other parties. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Publishing TV listings? BDS are after you...
On 23/06/06, Simon Huggins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The one part of this I *really* don't get is that accurate TV listing data is only going to generate more viewers. So why on earth would you want to restrict it? Because 'generating more viewers' is only one part of the value commercial value of listings data to the broadcaster. And a diminishing one, at that - it's easy to argue that there are already more than enough places that an interested viewer can find out what's on BBC1 tonight at 9pm, and the existence of another adds nothing to the audience figures. If an aggregator wants to add value to listings data to serve their own commercial ends, why shouldn't they pay royalties to the data provider? Peter (Devil's Advocate-in-Chief) -- Peter Bowyer Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Publishing TV listings? BDS are after you...
Dear all Thanks for your emails alerting to this issue both on list and off list. I'm doing some digging behind the scenes and will get back to the list asap clarifying the issues raised. Hopefully later this afternoon. Thanks Jem, backstage.bbc.co.uk -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Cowlishaw Sent: 23 June 2006 12:47 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Publishing TV listings? BDS are after you... On 6/23/06, Adam Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is another point of data collected and gathered using tax/license fee payers money, yet we can't access it without paying substantial fees. I should point out here that BDS are not funded by the license fee, they are a private company, so this may not be true. cheers, Tim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Publishing TV listings? BDS are after you...
I am sure that BDS do pay the BBC. The difference here is that the BBC, as Backstage, made the content available for use... and as such, has a clear responsibility to BDS, and any other commercial user, as well as the members of Backstage, to make sure that everyone works within the BBC's terms as the data supplier. Can the BBC have their cake and eat it? I think not. On 23 Jun 2006, at 13:04, Peter Bowyer wrote: On 23/06/06, Simon Huggins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The one part of this I *really* don't get is that accurate TV listing data is only going to generate more viewers. So why on earth would you want to restrict it? Because 'generating more viewers' is only one part of the value commercial value of listings data to the broadcaster. And a diminishing one, at that - it's easy to argue that there are already more than enough places that an interested viewer can find out what's on BBC1 tonight at 9pm, and the existence of another adds nothing to the audience figures. If an aggregator wants to add value to listings data to serve their own commercial ends, why shouldn't they pay royalties to the data provider? Peter (Devil's Advocate-in-Chief) -- Peter Bowyer Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Publishing TV listings? BDS are after you...
Quoting Tim Cowlishaw [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 6/23/06, Adam Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is another point of data collected and gathered using tax/license fee payers money, yet we can't access it without paying substantial fees. I should point out here that BDS are not funded by the license fee, they are a private company, so this may not be true. Yeah, i understand that point, but the BBC ultimately creates the TV schedules and then has agreements with other companies to sell this information. Without Backstage we would have no free access to TV Listings, so thanks Backstage. Adam - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Publishing TV listings? BDS are after you...
Dear all Ok. The BDS and TV listings email. Nothing to worry about. BDS/Red Bee are one of the BBC's many suppliers and they are required from time to time to chase publishers for copyright royalties on behalf of the BBC and ITV. When doing so though, they are sometimes unaware of all of the circumstances surrounding how that data is being used or published. Apologies. So just to make absolutely clear. The BBC will continue to make our listings available for free (as part of the TV Anytime feed) and we are keen for developers as part of the remit of backstage to continue to be able to create and be innovative with the usage of that data. That's why we ran a competition last summer for redesigning TV listings data and that's why our RD team recently released this API: http://www0.rdthdo.bbc.co.uk/services/api/index.html (more on this at Chris Bowley's blog: http://fridayforward.com/2006/05/bbc-content-api.html) That said it is made available only as part of the backstage licence http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/terms_of_use.html It does have to be for non-commercial usage. And obviously it only refers to BBC TV and radio data and not other broadcasters. So you are free to continue to use this data in this way and hopefully demonstrate many more ideas such as this. http://www.daden.co.uk/consulting/pages/000296.html Wi Fi rabbits reading out BBC TV listings. Brilliant. (thanks to Daden/Dave Burden.) And Mario's excellent now/next modules which he circulated to the list yesterday... http://bbcmodules.menti.net/ cheers Jem Stone, backstage.bbc.co.uk -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeremy Stone Sent: 23 June 2006 13:07 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Publishing TV listings? BDS are after you... Dear all Thanks for your emails alerting to this issue both on list and off list. I'm doing some digging behind the scenes and will get back to the list asap clarifying the issues raised. Hopefully later this afternoon. Thanks Jem, backstage.bbc.co.uk -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Cowlishaw Sent: 23 June 2006 12:47 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Publishing TV listings? BDS are after you... On 6/23/06, Adam Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is another point of data collected and gathered using tax/license fee payers money, yet we can't access it without paying substantial fees. I should point out here that BDS are not funded by the license fee, they are a private company, so this may not be true. cheers, Tim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Publishing TV listings? BDS are after you...
So just to make absolutely clear. The BBC will continue to make ourlistings available for free (as part of the TV Anytime feed) and we arekeen for developers as part of the remit of backstage to continue to be able to create and be innovative with the usage of that data.That's all fine, but just to make it absolutely clear, are you saying that listings through Backstage are exempt from the Broadcasting Act 1990's requirements to have a licence to publish such information? -- http://james.cridland.net/contacting_me/
Re: [backstage] Publishing TV listings? BDS are after you...
So just to make absolutely clear. The BBC will continue to make our listings available for free (as part of the TV Anytime feed) and we are keen for developers as part of the remit of backstage to continue to be able to create and be innovative with the usage of that data. That's all fine, but just to make it absolutely clear, are you saying that listings through Backstage are exempt from the Broadcasting Act 1990's requirements to have a licence to publish such information? After a quick read, I can't see anything in the Broadcasting Act 1990 that has any relevance here, but then I'm no lawyer. It was, after all, drafted before the Web existed. The BBC is offering its own listings data under the backstage non-commercial re-use licence on the Web, and we're going to continue to do so. Apologies if BDS's actions have caused angst. They aggregate and clean data from many broadcasters and as such add commercial value - more than might first appear, given how often schedules change at the last minute, and how many channels now existing. Now, as a completely crap coder myself, may I commend the new BBC TV listings API from BBC RD http://www0.rdthdo.bbc.co.uk/services/api/index.html which includes a 'simple' mode, as well as the full fat TVAnytime results for those of you who like complexity (sorry, richness of data!). In other news, this might be of interest: http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/KamaeliaMacro.html bests -tom - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC News Live Stats XML - come and get it!
On 6/23/06, Matt Rink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know this is kind of a late follow up but I got bored a fews daysago and decided to build this module/gadget for Google's personalisedhomepage that used the data Ben provided. I hadn't built one before soI thought it would be a good start. You can select the region and the number of items to display.http://mattrink.co.uk/gadgets/bbcTopStories.xmlThanks to Mario for his now/next module. It is a great example Thanks Matt,so this is based on the LiveMapStats XML files, right?And as a side question, why did you set inlining as required - is it just the variable gadget height? If so, I think you'd be better of living with a fixed height and scrollbars, as forcing inlining may alienate people due to the extra security prompt.. Cheers,Mario.
