RE: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
I'm shocked no ones mentioned the new backstage schwag!!! We also have some very nice banners - http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/news/archives/2006/12/inspire.html Ian Forrester || backstage.bbc.co.uk || x83965 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Cashmore Sent: 05 December 2006 11:26 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview Hi Dave - you're not being lame, it took me a few moments to see where you could download the video - just hit 'Distribute' in the blue bar beneath the video... And you get several options to grab the video... Matthew -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Crossland Sent: 04 December 2006 17:16 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview On 04/12/06, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://blip.tv/file/get/Cubicgarden-interviewWithTristanNitotPresident OfMozillaEurope758.MP4 Sorry to be lame, but how did you arrive at that URL? What did I miss? :-) -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Forrester I'm shocked no ones mentioned the new backstage schwag!!! You disabled comments on the page :( - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
So.. umm.. any going to waste after the christmas bash? Regards, Gareth Rodger W: http://www.garethrodger.com E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 5 Dec 2006, at 15:25, Lee Goddard wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Forrester I'm shocked no ones mentioned the new backstage schwag!!! You disabled comments on the page :( - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
On 04/12/06, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: for some reason Flash brings the zealots out in force. ;-) I'm not sure why you are calling me a 'zealot'. Did I say something unreasonable? -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
Can I have a doggy bag too? Preferably wrapped in a backstage T-Shirt :o) David Shaw Managing Editor Scottish Enterprise WebTeam Information Services Tel: +44 (0)141 228 2979 Fax: +44 (0)141 228 2511 Mobile: 0773 3301219 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gareth Rodger Sent: 05 December 2006 15:35 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview So.. umm.. any going to waste after the christmas bash? Regards, Gareth Rodger W: http://www.garethrodger.com E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 5 Dec 2006, at 15:25, Lee Goddard wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Forrester I'm shocked no ones mentioned the new backstage schwag!!! You disabled comments on the page :( - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ __ Scottish Enterprise Network http://www.scottish-enterprise.com Address and Contact Numbers 150 Broomielaw 5 Atlantic Quay Glasgow G2 8LU. Tel: +44 (0)141 248 2700. Fax: +44 (0)141 221 3217 Message is sent in confidence for the addressee only. It may contain legally privileged information. The contents are not to be disclosed to anyone other than the addressee. Unauthorised recipients are requested to preserve this confidentiality and to advise the sender immediately of any error in transmission.
Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
No. Not unreasonable. Patronising, possibly. And it wasn't just aimed at you Dave. It happened a few months ago - someone suggests Flash as a powerful and (used properly) useful tool, and the list suddenly fills with vitriolic posts about how evil it is and how all software should be free and open. I don't know why it seems to be Flash in particular that brings this out in folk. Ah well. Cheers, Rich. On 12/5/06, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 04/12/06, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: for some reason Flash brings the zealots out in force. ;-) I'm not sure why you are calling me a 'zealot'. Did I say something unreasonable? -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
I don't know why it seems to be Flash in particular that brings this out in folk. I can tell you that it is no different on the continent either - I spent a very entertaining meeting here in Austria the other week facing exactly the same The horror! The horror! reaction to the notion of using Flash :-) all the best, martin - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
There is hope http://osflash.org/ http://www.contentmanager.net/magazine/news_h20882_adobe_and_mozilla_foundation_to_open_source.html On 12/5/06, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No. Not unreasonable. Patronising, possibly. And it wasn't just aimed at you Dave. It happened a few months ago - someone suggests Flash as a powerful and (used properly) useful tool, and the list suddenly fills with vitriolic posts about how evil it is and how all software should be free and open. I don't know why it seems to be Flash in particular that brings this out in folk. Ah well. Cheers, Rich. On 12/5/06, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 04/12/06, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: for some reason Flash brings the zealots out in force. ;-) I'm not sure why you are calling me a 'zealot'. Did I say something unreasonable? -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours.
RE: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
It wasn't till I met Aral Balkan and Niqui Merret at BarCampLondon that I started to accept that my views of Flash were very much old fashioned. Flash has moved on quite a lot and there are real problems still with it but its got a lot better. I still won't use it on my own sites unless its for video or audio playback. But I was always a huge fan of SVG :) Cheers, Ian Forrester || backstage.bbc.co.uk || x83965 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin Belam Sent: 05 December 2006 16:30 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview I don't know why it seems to be Flash in particular that brings this out in folk. I can tell you that it is no different on the continent either - I spent a very entertaining meeting here in Austria the other week facing exactly the same The horror! The horror! reaction to the notion of using Flash :-) all the best, martin - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
On 05/12/06, Neil Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is hope http://osflash.org/ This is very, very interesting. Because Flash blurs the distinctionbetween code and data, I wonder if it is inconsisent to object toproprietary Flash player software, yet accept proprietary Flash'content' software. I'll have to think about this! :-) http://www.contentmanager.net/magazine/news_h20882_adobe_and_mozilla_foundation_to_open_source.html In a recent ZDnet interview with the lead Gnash developer, therelevance of this to Free Flash player software was explained: -- 8 -- 4. How does Adobe's announcement that they are open sourcing theActionScript Virtual Machine affect the Gnash project? Very little, actually. Their released code will help Mozilla, whichhad a poor JavaScript engine, but not Gnash much. Tamarin is not aFlash player, it's not even close. It's probably about 10% of the coderequired for a Flash player. Many of the more advanced ActionScriptclasses, like SharedObj, NetConnection, LocalConnection, etc… aren'teven in this donated code. Even when using Tamarin, you still need arendering engine, graphics manipulation, etc… We will likely pickthrough the code to see what the v9 changes are, but that's about it.We still welcome Adobe's an announcement as a good thing. 5. Is there any possibility that Gnash will contribute code to theTamarin project? I seriously doubt it. We already have a good VM in Gnash, and we'vealready implemented most of the ActionScript classes. As we won't beusing Tamarin, there really isn't anyway we could contribute. They'rewelcome to steal code from us though if they don't mind the GPL. :-)-- 8 --- http://blogs.zdnet.com/Stewart/index.php?p=177 -- Regards,Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
On 05/12/06, Martin Belam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know why it seems to be Flash in particular that brings this out in folk. I can tell you that it is no different on the continent either - I spent a very entertaining meeting here in Austria the other week facing exactly the same The horror! The horror! reaction to the notion of using Flash :-) That kind of practical reaction is from people out of touch, imHo :-) Macromedia took great pains to make Flash a platform for usable and accessible content delivery. But despite this, publishers still need to make alternative distribution channels for people on non-Flash-capable devices like mobile phones or low bandwidth connections; eg, offering content in a non-interactive form, pr say, downloads of streams. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
It wasn't till I met Aral Balkan and Niqui Merret at BarCampLondon that I started to accept that my views of Flash were very much old fashioned. Flash has moved on quite a lot and there are real problems still with it but its got a lot better. I still won't use it on my own sites unless its for video or audio playback. But I was always a huge fan of SVG :) Yeah there are some nice uses of flash kicking about. Video, audio in particular but I've also seen nice gallery implementations that use flash. The main problem with Flash to my mind is how associated it is with ads and garish colour schemes - its grown up a lot since then, but not everyone has made the switch. I swear to god if I have to zap that damned mosquito one more time to make my PC stop making stupid insect noises... - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
On 05/12/06, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It wasn't till I met Aral Balkan and Niqui Merret at BarCampLondon that I started to accept that my views of Flash were very much old fashioned. The professional is the man who stays put - The Medium is the Massage, McLuhan, 1969 ;p Flash has moved on quite a lot and there are real problems still with it but its got a lot better. I still won't use it on my own sites unless its for video or audio playback. But I was always a huge fan of SVG :) Sexps are sexier than XML. (If you're not familiar with that joke, I recommend checking out http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Erik_Naggum - especially Perl people :-D -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
Flashblock is your friend on Firefox - http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ Ian Forrester || backstage.bbc.co.uk || x83965 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Luke Dicken Sent: 05 December 2006 17:00 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview It wasn't till I met Aral Balkan and Niqui Merret at BarCampLondon that I started to accept that my views of Flash were very much old fashioned. Flash has moved on quite a lot and there are real problems still with it but its got a lot better. I still won't use it on my own sites unless its for video or audio playback. But I was always a huge fan of SVG :) Yeah there are some nice uses of flash kicking about. Video, audio in particular but I've also seen nice gallery implementations that use flash. The main problem with Flash to my mind is how associated it is with ads and garish colour schemes - its grown up a lot since then, but not everyone has made the switch. I swear to god if I have to zap that damned mosquito one more time to make my PC stop making stupid insect noises... - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
Ian, I was just writing the exact same response! Apollo looks to take Director's place as a RAD tool. Flex is what they are pushing for enterprise RIA's (Possibly succeeding the Flash Communication Server). 'Flash' on the web as I see it is for certain media's where other solutions haven't the market saturation or have limited functionality e.g. audio / video / drawing / webcams. All in all, i'm perfectly happy with the Flash player being the front- end for these solutions. The old view I had was of flash being used for blitzing all areas of interactivity and multimedia on the web. Now I see it as nothing more than a front end to a suite of tools. In the past i've used abstraction layers to allow me to use a different front-end not only for accessibility but primarily for future-proofing. Regards, Gareth Rodger W: http://www.garethrodger.com E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 5 Dec 2006, at 16:46, Ian Forrester wrote: It wasn't till I met Aral Balkan and Niqui Merret at BarCampLondon that I started to accept that my views of Flash were very much old fashioned. Flash has moved on quite a lot and there are real problems still with it but its got a lot better. I still won't use it on my own sites unless its for video or audio playback. But I was always a huge fan of SVG :) Cheers, Ian Forrester || backstage.bbc.co.uk || x83965 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin Belam Sent: 05 December 2006 16:30 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview I don't know why it seems to be Flash in particular that brings this out in folk. I can tell you that it is no different on the continent either - I spent a very entertaining meeting here in Austria the other week facing exactly the same The horror! The horror! reaction to the notion of using Flash :-) all the best, martin - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
Aral Balkan is a vey talented guy, if anyone can convince you that flash can be used for good its him Also there is a guy called Niklas Richardson you is exceptionally knowledgable about Flex which is the XML base development product that is much more tailored to developers that designers. Flash has come a long way in the last 4 years as a development tool but as with most macromedia products it does suffer from a bad reputation due to duck hunt style ads and the cost On 12/5/06, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It wasn't till I met Aral Balkan and Niqui Merret at BarCampLondon that I started to accept that my views of Flash were very much old fashioned. Flash has moved on quite a lot and there are real problems still with it but its got a lot better. I still won't use it on my own sites unless its for video or audio playback. But I was always a huge fan of SVG :) Cheers, Ian Forrester || backstage.bbc.co.uk || x83965 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin Belam Sent: 05 December 2006 16:30 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview I don't know why it seems to be Flash in particular that brings this out in folk. I can tell you that it is no different on the continent either - I spent a very entertaining meeting here in Austria the other week facing exactly the same The horror! The horror! reaction to the notion of using Flash :-) all the best, martin - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours.
Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
On 05/12/06, Luke Dicken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I swear to god if I have to zap that damned mosquito one more time to make my PC stop making stupid insect noises... https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/433/ -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
Interesting I think this is one of the problems with the Free Software movement. any tool that is not free-as-in-freedom is unethical This must have got quite a few people backs up? I'm not saying its wrong, just in the language you can see why people object without even understanding the principle. I understand the differences between open source and free software but the fact people are at least willing to try an alternative licence to the all right reserved is a good thing in my book. Maybe with a less in your face delivery, free software will win over even more people and become the poster child of a generation like open source currently is. Ian Forrester || backstage.bbc.co.uk || x83965 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Crossland Sent: 05 December 2006 16:41 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview However, any tool that is not free-as-in-freedom is unethical, because it cannot be shared, and unsustainable, because it cannot be independently improved. Today I'm more interested in Free Software than web standards, because I think that the practical problems with Flash about 5 years ago have largely been resolved, and the remaining problems are due to the cultural inertia of Flash developers. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
No. Not unreasonable. Patronising, possibly. Okay. Could you point to which paragraph my tone was off? Mm - the first line. Have you heard of Free Software? I expect you have heard of OpenSource software. Maybe it's just me but it came across as someone explaining the concept on CBeebies. I'm sure it wasn't intended as such and so I apologise if I was a bit snappy. Many people have heard of 'open source', but confusion can arise because they don't understand the difference between 'free software' and 'open source'. This is mainly because 'open source' isn't totally honest about whats going on here. The views espoused by 'open source' culture dont explain why it is essential to replace all 'closed source' software with 'open source'; it just explains why its might, perhaps, make more reliable/powerful software in certain cases. In this particular case, 'open source' people are able to make use of Flash-based functionality all over the net because they have no objections to using the Flash player that Adobe makes available for GNU+Linux. But I object to it because it is not Free Software, and believe that it is essential to use Free Software, because non-free software is unethical and unsustainable. And that's where we disagree. Non-free software isn't unethical in itself, and it's certainly not unsustainable. If it was unsustainable, software companies - whether one man businesses, or giant companies like Microsoft, Oracle, Adobe and EA just wouldn't exist by now. I'd argue the exact opposite - free software is a far less sustainable business model, and while the free and open source movements aims and ideals are laudable, and an excellent alternative option, I don't believe that all software can ever, nor should ever be free (as in Free Speech). I liken it to vegetarianism. If you want to cut meat out of your diet entirely, then that's entirely up to you, but is arguably a dangerous and ethically suspect move. My stance is that there are good reasons to cut down on red meat and to move to more ethically produced food - but cutting all meat out of a diet is, I believe a bad thing. I certainly don't want an extreme position being rammed down my throat and being abused for not agreeing with it - which has happened in the past. Same with software. Anyway - this isn't the place to get into this discussion, although if anyone would like to take this off list then I'm more than happy to bang on about the analogy above until the hand reared, free range Jerseys come home. Cheers, Rich. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
The videos are ace, Are they going to be a new monthly offering? The schwag is looking really good, the black really works with the word tag. How does a poor needy student go about blagging a t-shirt and pen ;) Adrian On 12/4/06, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, A bit of a joy for the first Monday of the month First up some videos I've collected, Interview with Mozilla Europe President - http://cubicgarden.blip.tv /file/109840 Open Street Presentation from OS Mashup day - http://cubicgarden.blip.tv /file/98294 GeoRSS Presentation from OS Mashup day - http://cubicgarden.blip.tv /file/98290 Then some sneaky previews of our new tshirts http://www.flickr.com/groups/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Enjoy! Ian Forrester || backstage.bbc.co.uk || x83965 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@ lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
Luke Dicken wrote: I love the soap boxes people find to lecture the world from.snip OK, I'll bite. I can't look at Flash on my computer at home because Macromedia don't make Flash for the OS/ architecture I'm using. If Flash was free software, there'd be a way to get it to work on my computer. It isn't, so there isn't. Even attempting to get it to work probably breaks some rule/ law or other. So, soap boxes and lectures aside, what do you suggest? Might you see now why not everyone likes Flash all the time, and that disliking it might not be just because of insert awful ad here? Of course, if we all used the same OS, browser and software stack, it'd be much easier, and Tim B-L wouldn't have needed to invent the Web. Smile and regards George (disclaimer.. I work at the BBC) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
I wrote a long thing in reply to this, but it all boils down to : access to people's software is a privilege not a right. Sorry. But there you go. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Wright Sent: 05 December 2006 20:24 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview Luke Dicken wrote: I love the soap boxes people find to lecture the world from.snip OK, I'll bite. I can't look at Flash on my computer at home because Macromedia don't make Flash for the OS/ architecture I'm using. If Flash was free software, there'd be a way to get it to work on my computer. It isn't, so there isn't. Even attempting to get it to work probably breaks some rule/ law or other. So, soap boxes and lectures aside, what do you suggest? Might you see now why not everyone likes Flash all the time, and that disliking it might not be just because of insert awful ad here? Of course, if we all used the same OS, browser and software stack, it'd be much easier, and Tim B-L wouldn't have needed to invent the Web. Smile and regards George (disclaimer.. I work at the BBC) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.7/569 - Release Date: 05/12/2006 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
On 05/12/06, Luke Dicken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wrote a long thing in reply to this, but it all boils down to : access to people's software is a privilege not a right. Sorry. But there you go. Please post it - I can't really make sense of this :-) -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
Well, I deleted it to write the other. Basically my position is I make the software, therefore I make the rules. At the end of the day, software is a product and just like every other product, the developer sets the terms of sale, or use, and for many products that extends solely to what platform it is available. Mandating that software should be free is a naieve position that doesn't take a number of factors into account. From what I read of your initial email for example, you can charge for your software but then the person who buys it has the right to redistribute it. And how does original creator get compensated fairly based on the actual number of people using the product? Business models built on Faith in human nature tend to be... Y'know... Non-existant. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Crossland Sent: 05 December 2006 20:56 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview On 05/12/06, Luke Dicken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wrote a long thing in reply to this, but it all boils down to : access to people's software is a privilege not a right. Sorry. But there you go. Please post it - I can't really make sense of this :-) -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.7/569 - Release Date: 05/12/2006 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
And this would be where the zealotry comes in. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Crossland Sent: 05 December 2006 22:21 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview On 05/12/06, Luke Dicken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I love the soap boxes people find to lecture the world from. Drop me a line when capitalist society starts living up to these idealistic standards. I'm surprised you think that Free Software is not part of capitalist society. Free Software is more pro-business than proprietary software is. If you buy a car, you don't expect that the bonnet is padlocked shut, so you can't do basic small things yourself like changing the oil, and that you can't take it to any independent mechanic. Instead, you have freedom to fix what you can yourself, and to help a thousand more mechanics make a million more pounds. All proprietary software developers are monopolists, because only they can pop the bonnet or your car, as it were. Yes, a free market prevents monopolists making _as much_ money as one where they have the market. But without monopolists - proprietary software developers - everyone else makes more money, overall. Until then, I'm going to play by the same rules as other people do - holding yourself to a higher standard just to take the moral high ground is the very reason the phrase cutting your nose off to spite your face was coined. Were people cutting off their noses to spite their faces in their struggle for freedom in the suffragette movement? Were people cutting off their noses to spite their faces in their struggle for freedom in the anti-apartheid movement? Consider If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, then what am I? And if not now, when? - http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder In that spirit, the Free Software movement is willing to undergo the tremendous inconvenience to create a free program that's a replacement for a proprietary program. That's why we have the GNU/Linux system, because a lot of people were prepared to make practical sacrifices so we can have that freedom. - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/15/lessig_stallman_drm/ :-) -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.7/569 - Release Date: 05/12/2006 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
On 05/12/06, Luke Dicken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And this would be where the zealotry comes in. Why are you calling me a zealot? -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
And this would be where the zealotry comes in. Why are you calling me a zealot? Largely for comic effect... Also: zealot noun 1 often derog, a single-minded and determined supporter of a political cause, religion, etc - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
On 05/12/06, Laurence Samuels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's time you lot stop all these. If you want to continue these rants, do it privately to yourselves, and not to the list. Your rants contribute no knowledge. Please stop. You can ignore my emails? :-) In general, I think the 'why' of the Free Software movement is quite important for projects to provide Free access to BBC information, such as Backstage. Specifically here, I was asked by some @bbc.co.uk to explain why a Free Software user such as myself would not use non-free software. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
You explained these a long time ago, and you kept on repeating what did not amount to new knowledge. I hope you wont reply to this email. If you do, I wont reply to the list, I might reply to you privately. L On 05/12/06, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 05/12/06, Laurence Samuels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's time you lot stop all these. If you want to continue these rants, do it privately to yourselves, and not to the list. Your rants contribute no knowledge. Please stop. You can ignore my emails? :-) In general, I think the 'why' of the Free Software movement is quite important for projects to provide Free access to BBC information, such as Backstage. Specifically here, I was asked by some @bbc.co.uk to explain why a Free Software user such as myself would not use non-free software. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Mozilla interview and Backstage Schwag preview
Adrian Lansdown wrote: The videos are ace, Are they going to be a new monthly offering? The schwag is looking really good, the black really works with the word tag. How does a poor needy student go about blagging a t-shirt and pen ;) Adrian Not exactly a monthly offering, but when ever I go to an event or something of interest. Wait till you see the T-shirts! Come to xmas party, otherwise wait till we come to you. :) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
