Re: [backstage-developer] RSS Sliders
Hi Paul, The granularity of the slider is determined by the number of elements in the lists - hence feeds with few numbers of items [e.g. Cornish Features] will only change with a greater movement of the slider. Currently the slider itself returns values between 0 and 100, which allows for up to 100 items in each feed - some of these RSS feeds have only 8 items in. Cheers Neil On 10 Jan 2008, at 20:19, Paul Daniel wrote: I'm not seeing a replacement of items when I move the slider just a reduction. Firefox 2.0.0.11 and Maxthon 1.6.3 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ]On Behalf Of neil Sent: 08 January 2008 15:17 To: backstage-developer@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage-developer] RSS Sliders We've been developing a prototype interface element for the BBC which we'd like to release to the Backstage developer community for feedback and improvements. http://projects.hinterland.nu/bbc/sliders It's a simple slider widget which allows for four RSS feeds to be mixed down into a single list. Two sliders are used, the first to mix two pairs of feeds into two lists, and the second to mix the two lists together. .. The focus is on the BBC website's 'Where I Live' section, and the aim is to allow users to easily choose a balance of News and Local Features, as well as balancing the mix between two counties. Stories are given a value based on their order within the feed, and as the slider moves across, low value stories from one list drop off, to be replaced by high value stories from the new list. Questions include: Is this intuitive? Does the data shift as you might expect? Are two sliders too complex? Is a slider appropriate here, or should something else be used? Is the sorting algorithm right? What should we do about duplicate entries? .. The application is in two parts, a Perl script which consumes RSS feeds (using XML::FeedPP) and generates an embedded JSON array containing the stories from all four sources and their rank. Secondly there is a Javascript function to combine and generate the list(s) visible on the page. Since the time course of 'News' and 'Local Features' differ so widely [news changing by the minute, features dating back weeks] it was not possible to elegantly rank the lists strictly on their publication date - instead we chose to simply score them according to their rank position in the original feed. In this prototype the source feeds are hard-coded into the script - however this could easily be changed to use an external list. Unfortunately the BBC does not have a very RESTful interface to their local features XML, with no consistency in the URL format there is no simple programatic way to access all the BBC regions. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: 07/01/2008 09:14 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1216 - Release Date: 09/01/2008 10:16
Re: [backstage] BBC iplayer on exotic devices
On 09/01/2008, Iain Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Confusing how?
I am confused to where a lot of the URLs actually come from.
It would be helpful if someone said where all these many URLs came
from instead of just saying use this URL.
I haven't read PHP for a *long* time (several years since I last used
it, and even then I was a beginner).
Can you confirm the following steps (based on your PHP code):
1. Obtain PID from page URL (8 digits prior to the file extension).
2. Fetch: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/PID_HERE.shtml
3. Scan for pids
4. Fetch: http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/3/stream/check/iplayer?pid=PID_HERE
and parse XML for tags token, identifier, and server
5. Fetch: http://SERVER_HERE/fcs/ident and parse XML for tag ip
6. Perform RTMP on:
rtmp://IP_HERE:1935/ondemand?_fcs_vhost=SERVER_HEREauth=TOKEN_HEREaifp=v001slist=IDENTIFIER_HERE
1935 is defined by IANA as:
macromedia-fcs 1935/tcpMacromedia Flash Communications Server MX
macromedia-fcs 1935/udpMacromedia Flash Communications server MX
From: http://www.iana.org/assignments/port-numbers
Do we have a list of applications and versions known to support RTMP?
The flash iPlayer itself does most of the logic, which can
be read easily with any number of freely available flash decompilers.
You mean it is necessary to reverse engineer the binary flash file?
And I thought the BBC said that reverse engineering was almost impossible.
And now a worked example (so I can see if I understand right).
This is on The vicar of dibley (it was on the front page and I am that lazy).
URL from address bar:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b007cjrb.shtml
PID: b007cjrb (anyone think James Bond when seeing that ID?)
View Source:
iplayer.host = www.bbc.co.uk;
iplayer.flash_debug = false;
iplayer.prog = The Vicar of Dibley;
iplayer.guidance = ;
iplayer.pid = 'b007cjrb';
iplayer.versions = [
{
type : 'Original',
pid : 'b006py02',
download : [
{ start : new Date(2008, 0, 09, 22, 01, 00),
end : new Date(2008, 0, 16, 21, 59, 00)}
],
streaming : [
{ start : new Date(2008, 0, 09, 22, 01, 00),
end : new Date(2008, 0, 16, 21, 59, 00)}
],
filesize : '600Mb'
}
];
I see two PIDs the original one b007cjrb and the one from versions: b006py02
I am guessing I use the second one?
Also note the dates it is available from and the filesize.
Is there always just one version Original or is there an occasion
where there are different versions? It should be possible to interpret
most of the without needing a full HTML and Javascript parser,
provided the BBC don't change it too much.
Request:
GET /mediaselector/3/stream/check/iplayer?pid=b006py02 HTTP/1.1
HOST: www.bbc.co.uk
Response:
?xml version=1.0 encoding=utf-8?
stream version=0.1
servercp41752.edgefcs.net/server
identifiersecure/b0006py02-streaming68309978/identifier
subtitleUrl/subtitleUrl
tokendaEcncIbfdxcWd6a1a4dVcqdRbIb6aUbHae-bhHZU_-cCp-EppEFqzpNEvEqwI/token
/stream
Request:
GET /mediaselector/3/stream/check/iplayer?pid=b007cjrb HTTP/1.1
HOST: www.bbc.co.uk
Response:
?xml version=1.0 encoding=utf-8?
stream version=0.1
error id=notavailable/
/stream
From this we can see that the stream can return either the
server,identifier,subtitleURL,token combination or an error ID.
Helpful if you want to find out which versions can and can't be used.
Not sure how to use subtitle (none provided for this clip anyway)
Select the PID b006py02 as it's the only available one (I think we
should only be using IDs from the version array anyway).
Set server,identifier,subtitleURL,token accordingly.
Fetch the IP from http://cp41752.edgefcs.net/fcs/ident
Request:
GET /fcs/ident HTTP/1.1
HOST: cp41752.edgefcs.net
Response:
?xml version=1.0 encoding=utf-8 ?
fcsip217.243.192.45/ip/fcs
Set IP address to 217.243.192.45
Request:
rtmp://217.243.192.45:1935/ondemand?_fcs_vhost=cp41752.edgefcs.netauth=daEcncIbfdxcWd6a1a4dVcqdRbIb6aUbHae-bhHZU_-cCp-EppEFqzpNEvEqwIaifp=v001slist=secure/b0006py02-streaming68309978
wget complains unsupported scheme.
mPlayer also fails.
Of course I can't check that URL is correct without an RTMP client of some sort.
Of course this may break as soon as the BBC changes anything.
Formal definitions for the XML would be helpful.
What error conditions occur? Why do they occur? What tags are used?
How does subtitleURL work?
Andy
--
Computers are like air conditioners. Both stop working, if you open windows.
-- Adam Heath
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RE: [backstage] Radio 1 Now Playing web data prototype
Absolutely, nothing wrong with diversity. Hopefully all the ideas from this set of prototypes will inspire new, improved prototypes and maybe even real products. Tristan - Tristan Ferne Senior Development Producer, RD BBC Audio Music Interactive -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Riley Sent: 10 January 2008 19:27 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Radio 1 Now Playing web data prototype Thanks, I might just keep it going then! Chris On 10/01/2008, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/01/2008, Chris Riley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is very similar to something I've already done http://cgriley.com/nowplaying/ It isn't as polished as the one you're producing, and since you are producing one I'll probably retire mine in a few weeks! I like yours too and it would be a shame to remove it :-) You've already linked to Amazon to buy the CD now similar to what I suggested for Simon Cross. Rather than spreading FUD about the non-commercial restriction, I feel I ought to explain what I mean there. I'll do that in a different thread, though :-) -- Regards, Dave (Personal opinion only, not the views of any employers past or present) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] BBC iplayer on exotic devices
Ashley Highfield's post seems relevant to this discussion http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/01/ip_to_tv_how.html -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Jolly Sent: 09 January 2008 12:54 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC iplayer on exotic devices Dave Crossland wrote: On 09/01/2008, Jason Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Production client-side code really shouldn't have documentation in. If the BBC is serious about supporting innovation around the iPlayer, it ought to leave it in here. I believe Ian said that there's a proper API coming, which sounds to me like a more elegant solution than serving lots of redundant comments to every iPlayer user. S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iplayer on exotic devices
Is there any intention within the BBC to put us out of our misery, and status as potential law breakers, to provide a server full of streamed content, complete TV programmes, that we can access legally worldwide through the internet? I suggest that if Mr Highfield's associate is breaking the law, then either he is one of many, in which case the horse has bolted.. or we need to make an example of him, and any further accessories to the crime. :-( The BBC is heading in to a very problematic area, where if they manage to keep the creators sweet, they risk losing control of their distribution system. and the support of the customer. I know that this is over simplified, but everyone now is aware of the direction that this is all taking. MS, Apple, and Amazon are all examples of World-wide networking businesses. Please can the BBC arrange a department that considers and delivers a product for the world through the internet? No more DRM, no GeoIP, no using content scraped from other web-sites, without an open and sincere contribution to the world at large. I'll happily pay a yearly subscription. I believe that if you try this route, then you will beat the pirates to it, and truly contribute to the future if you decide not to, then the model of the Music business since 1994 is your future, which would be saddening indeed. Regards RichE On 11 Jan 2008, at 11:06, Nick Reynolds-AMi wrote: Ashley Highfield's post seems relevant to this discussion http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/01/ip_to_tv_how.html -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Jolly Sent: 09 January 2008 12:54 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC iplayer on exotic devices Dave Crossland wrote: On 09/01/2008, Jason Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Production client-side code really shouldn't have documentation in. If the BBC is serious about supporting innovation around the iPlayer, it ought to leave it in here. I believe Ian said that there's a proper API coming, which sounds to me like a more elegant solution than serving lots of redundant comments to every iPlayer user. S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Radio 1 Now Playing web data prototype
Yeah keep yours up Chris - its nice, more commercially focused than what we can do, and is already giving us ideas about other data sources we can scour. Nice work fella. S On 10/1/08 19:26, Chris Riley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, I might just keep it going then! Chris On 10/01/2008, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/01/2008, Chris Riley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is very similar to something I've already done http://cgriley.com/nowplaying/ It isn't as polished as the one you're producing, and since you are producing one I'll probably retire mine in a few weeks! I like yours too and it would be a shame to remove it :-) You've already linked to Amazon to buy the CD now similar to what I suggested for Simon Cross. Rather than spreading FUD about the non-commercial restriction, I feel I ought to explain what I mean there. I'll do that in a different thread, though :-) -- Regards, Dave (Personal opinion only, not the views of any employers past or present) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC iplayer on exotic devices
On Fri Jan 11 10:23:14 UTC 2008, Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see two PIDs the original one b007cjrb and the one from versions: b006py02 I am guessing I use the second one? Correct. Episodes are conceptual and are not broadcast directly. They can have many versions and it is these versions which are broadcast and have ondemand availability. Is there always just one version Original or is there an occasion where there are different versions? Every episode should have a version of type Original, but there are other types and a version can have more than one type. The full list of version types is: +-+---+ | version_type_id | name | +-+---+ | AudioDescribed | Audio description | | Lengthened | Lengthened| | OpenSubtitled | Open subtitles| | Original| Original version | | Other | Other | | Shortened | Shortened | | Signed | Sign language | | WarningsHigher | Stronger content warnings | | WarningsLower | Milder content warnings | | WarningsNone| No content warnings | +-+---+ To give you an idea, the following version types have been used at least once: +-+ | version_type_id | +-+ | AudioDescribed | | Lengthened | | Original| | Other | | Shortened | | Signed | +-+ Cheers Jonathan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Backstage API License Non-Commercial restrictions
Hi All, I recently suggested adding links from Backstage API based sites to commercial websites might break the Backstage license terms. Rather than spreading FUD about the non-commercial restriction, I feel I ought to explain what I mean. Here are the relevant parts of the Backstage API license: a. only use the API's for your own personal, non-commercial use * http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/05/api_licence.html Suppose a simple page that uses the Radio 1 Backstage API to list the currently playing track and another API to find out which album that track is available on. Given (a), if the web developer doesn't have an affiliate ID in those links and hosts the page on his personal homepage domain (not a business related one) then that page is personal and non-commercial, overlooking the commercially-valuable self-promotion of themselves and the promotion of the track's commercial backers. Suppose that page then provides a link to Amazon to buy the CD of the album with this track now! I'd like to think that linking to a commercial site like this is okay, even if it serves ads (google search query of album name) and even if it makes money from sales that happen because of your links (amazon query of artists' CDs) - because your site is _your_ personal, non-commercial *cough* use. But then part (d) seems ambiguous to me: d. not publish, distribute or otherwise make the APIs available, (including in any Work You create), in a way that would enable other people to download or use the APIs other than as set out in this Licence. * http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/05/api_licence.html Did the hypothetical Amazon linker described above enable [Amazon] to [...] use the APIs [commercially, which is clearly] other than as set out in this Licence.? Part (e) is also ambiguous to me, regarding linking to youtube with a query with the track name, or to a query to eBay for $artist_name + ticket: e. only use the APIs and/or the Work for purposes that are not illegal, derogatory or otherwise objectionable or that bring the BBC or any third party into disrepute. Although selling tickets on eBay is not illegal (afaik) it has caused drama in the press. Also although YouTube has got some kind of legal padding for music videos now (afaik) linking to queries of youtube of artists' names seems highly likely to lead people to infringe copyright by downloading and watching unauthorized copies of labels' works, which is illegal. Suggestions for how developers can make decisions on these issues rationally would be welcome :-) On 11/01/2008, Simon Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah keep yours up Chris - its nice, more commercially focused than what we can do I find it interesting that what BBC employees can do is more restricted than what the Backstage API license allows. Would anyone like to explain why that might be the case? -- Regards, Dave (Personal opinion only, not the views of any employers past or present) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
