Re: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
Dave Crossland wrote: For a certain value judgement of 'good' that is? It tramples users' freedom and their friendships since we can't know how it works or redistribute it. That's not good. Conversely, it allows SMEs to enter market places with the knowledge that their intellectual property can gain them an income. But it is a reduction in freedom! :-) Is it? You're perfectly free to choose not to install a certain software package. You're free to find an alternative consumption method. You're free to gain employment by the BBC and change it from within. If someone running GNU+Linux uses more proprietary software tomorrow than they use today, that is not good. Why? Because you say so? Are all commercial software products inherently bad? I take it you don't use any patent-encumbered software, like MPEG encoders for instance then? I feel uncomfortably like you're avoiding thinking about ethical aspects of your profession. I don't think that an ad hominem argument helps your case. It's a very unfair comment based on your personal, biased viewpoint and should be retracted. For the record, I don't think that it's unethical to pay a company for a product that they have spent time creating and I don't believe we have an automatic right to do as we will with their product. I don't think so; software freedom increases content accessibility. In a way in which rights holders would agree for the data to be disseminated via the internet? Presumably they want it to be as ephemeral as possible, with a clause for time-shifting c.f. UHF Transmission. If a proprietary thing lets you do something in a way that meets your requirements better, then to argue that it should be used seems very over simplistic, since it ignores the ethical implications. Then is your argument not over simplistic too? In that it ignores such delicacies as service level agreements with third party companies who have control over technology provisions, support arrangements (presumably the developers of Gnash don't have a 24hr support service?), licensing arrangements with people like the MPEG LA and legally enforceable guaranteed levels of service. When we cannot understand how our computers work we are faced with a grave social problem. You sure - most of the population neither knows nor cares about how their PCs work? Some of the most brilliant user interaction and interface designers I've met don't know what's happening beyond their high-level code. It's why the world has engineers. When was the last time you had the feeler guage out to re-tappet your car? -- ST [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPhone Apple opens up iPhone to app developers - I told you so
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/feb/26/apple.apple Apple is rumoured to have delayed the launch of the software tools that will help third party developers produce independent applications for the iPhone and iPod Touch. The Californian technology giant said last October that the software developer's kit or SDK would be ready by the end of the month but bloggers in the US claim that it has been delayed while more work is carried out. On 18/10/2007, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 18/10/2007, Steve Jolly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Butterworth wrote: Why does it take four months to publish a SDK? Surely Apple must be using the SDK already to create their own applications? Steve Jobs gives a reasonable explanation in his announcement - that they want to implement a robust security model for third-party apps, something they don't need for internal development. Which suggests that the OS is rubbish, doesn't it? http://www.apple.com/startpage/ S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html . Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
Hi Rupert, I appear to have duplicated your comment on Prism. Didn't mean to ignore your message, it just got a bit lost in the noise. Have you used it at all? Or anyone else on this list for that matter. I'd be interested in an opinion. Alia Rupert Watson wrote: Ian I think it is funny that it says The current versions of the programs only work on PCs. despite the fact that earlier the article quotes your BBC man saying that the nice thing is that it is cross platform... I think that the BBC should keep an eye on Mozilla Prism as well. Rupert Watson On 25/02/2008 19:22, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what do people think? Rupert Watson Www.root6.com +44 7787 554 801 ROOT 6 LIMITED Registered in the UK at 4 WARDOUR MEWS, LONDON W1F 8AJ Company No. 03433253 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] GNU+Linux on the Wii as of this week
Hi, We can now boot GNU+Linux on Wii computers: And last but not least, we have finally run natively Linux on the Nintendo Wii through Team Tweezers' twilight-hack (http://wiibrew.org/index.php?title=Twilight_Hack). We have released a small usbgecko-enabled Proof of Concept (http://downloads.sourceforge.net/gc-linux/wii-linux-PoC-0.1.tgz) mini-distro to prove it. - http://www.gc-linux.org/wiki/Main_Page -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
Quoting ST [EMAIL PROTECTED]: When was the last time you had the feeler guage out to re-tappet your car? I personally wouldn't know how. But if I fill up at a petrol station and they tell me that as a result I am forbidden from hiring a mechanic to fix my car, I know that is an unreasonable restriction on me. However much or however little the petrol station may stand to make money from doing so. - Rob. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008, Richard P Edwards wrote: I would love to know who it was that decided to make the two systems incompatible.. I found the Wikipedia pages on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD quite informative when I was trying to find out the answer to the same question a couple of weeks back: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluray http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD-DVD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_definition_optical_disc_format_war The train of events on pages pretty much matches up, which makes me think it might be vaguely reliable :) --billy - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
I find filtering his mail directly into trash helps. That is a mature approach to dealing with mailing lists; thanks :-) It's a mature way of dealing with trolls on mailing lists, yes. R. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] GNU+Linux on the Wii as of this week
sounds interesting does anyone have a link for that video which used the wiimote etc to create a 3d environment which changed perspective from where one was. someone showed me a video of it on youtube - it looked pretty cool. pity i can't afford a wii, though by the time development has got to a stable and fully fledged level i imagine the price will drop further On 27/02/2008, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, We can now boot GNU+Linux on Wii computers: And last but not least, we have finally run natively Linux on the Nintendo Wii through Team Tweezers' twilight-hack (http://wiibrew.org/index.php?title=Twilight_Hack). We have released a small usbgecko-enabled Proof of Concept (http://downloads.sourceforge.net/gc-linux/wii-linux-PoC-0.1.tgz) mini-distro to prove it. - http://www.gc-linux.org/wiki/Main_Page -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- www.dobo.urandom.co.uk If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] GNU+Linux on the Wii as of this week
Tim Dobson wrote: sounds interesting does anyone have a link for that video which used the wiimote etc to create a 3d environment which changed perspective from where one was. someone showed me a video of it on youtube - it looked pretty cool. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/projects/wii/ pity i can't afford a wii, though by the time development has got to a stable and fully fledged level i imagine the price will drop further You can buy a wii-mote separately if you just want to play with head tracking etc :) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] GNU+Linux on the Wii as of this week
Search for Johnny Chung Lee - he's done a few really cool projects using the wiimote. On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Tim Dobson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sounds interesting does anyone have a link for that video which used the wiimote etc to create a 3d environment which changed perspective from where one was. someone showed me a video of it on youtube - it looked pretty cool. pity i can't afford a wii, though by the time development has got to a stable and fully fledged level i imagine the price will drop further On 27/02/2008, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, We can now boot GNU+Linux on Wii computers: And last but not least, we have finally run natively Linux on the Nintendo Wii through Team Tweezers' twilight-hack (http://wiibrew.org/index.php?title=Twilight_Hack). We have released a small usbgecko-enabled Proof of Concept (http://downloads.sourceforge.net/gc-linux/wii-linux-PoC-0.1.tgz) mini-distro to prove it. - http://www.gc-linux.org/wiki/Main_Page -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- www.dobo.urandom.co.uk If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
On 26/02/2008, Alia Sheikh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since Air is proprietary, that it runs on GNU+Linux is not good. For a certain value judgement of 'good' that is? It tramples users' freedom and their friendships since we can't know how it works or redistribute it. That's not good. With regards to friendship, haven't we been here before?:) http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/msg06204.html Andy wrote, And yet even I disagree with the statement that friendship is based on file sharing. Again, this exaggerates my position; friendship isn't based entirely on file sharing, but partially; anyone who shares files understands this. I've only ever met one person who said they honestly never shared files, and that was a senior Adobe employee. File sharing is an aspect of friendship in network society; I value it, everyone else I know values it too, and I object to the minority of powerful people who act to disrupt it. I like Linux Please consider calling the system GNU+Linux or GNU/Linux. http://www.gnu.org/gnu/why-gnu-linux.html explains :-) I've read the page and I will consider it. Cheers :-) Call me crazy but I think that the fact that companies now have to seriously consider building Linux support into their software products, is a good thing. At the end of the day its an extra thing that your platform can do, its not a reduction in functionality. But it is a reduction in freedom! :-) Is it a reduction in freedom if you do not have a bicycle and I give you a bicycle on the condition that you do not take it apart? Software freedom is very tightly defined - http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html - and it is important not to talk about freedom in the abstract because its so over-used and vague as to be defacto meaningless; George Orwell famously essayed this, on the web at http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit Your comments about the freedom of the Tube and underwater swimming and lighting in a film are obviously absurd, and unrelated to software freedom. I am not free to know the inner workings of Adobe Air. But I am free to build something that does the same sort of thing. As long as DRM law or patent law doesn't restrict you - and its likely that both obstruct free implementations of Air. I am free to use it to build something using Air and then let people access it to assess if they want a service that behaves in a particular way. I disagree; your ability to grant others access to your work depends on Adobe's conditions which you agreed to. The freedom I care about having trampled is the freedom to investigate and assess a product Can I investigate and assess Air? Only in a very simplified way :-) and the freedom to find the best solution for a problem, where the definition of 'best' takes into account more than just a single opinion (and I do think that your viewpoint is an opinion Dave, Should the definition of best take into account the ethical implications of the solutions? In my opinion, they should. It seems in your opinion they should not. even though I suspect I agree with more of it than you think). Great :-) This is typical of people who support open source and those who support software freedom, right? :-) Its a kind of inverted schism, where we agree on methods but not motivations :-) I would like to take into account what the majority of the licence fee paying public care about and which freedoms matter to them - even if I might not agree with it. The BBC creates serious and thoughtful documentaries that don't pander to popular taste, because it is by nature a paternal and undemocratic institution; it got spanked last year for pandering to popular taste too much and not doing enough stuff the advertising supported channels won't do because they wouldn't have mass appeal, right? If someone running GNU+Linux uses more proprietary software tomorrow than they use today, that is not good. That is a value judgement, and is, I'm afraid an opinion. That is a value judgment, and is, also, an opinion. ;-) This fictional person who we are talking about may disagree with you entirely. That piece of software may add something that had been missing their whole life. Whether you or like it or not, it would be their fundamental right to think that is *is* in fact 'good'. You have every right to think it isn't 'good' for you :) Valuing software convenience above software freedom isn't good because it effects everyone else as well as them. Its nowhere near as bad as someone who wrote the proprietary software, or the person who recommended it to them, but the users of proprietary software are basically victims, and they are responsible for their complicity in the social problem. The BBC is also building prototype applications with AIR. The BBC should not require the British public to use proprietry software, so developing
Re: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
Alia It is on all platforms now I think; http://wiki.mozilla.org/WebRunner#Latest_version Rupert Watson Www.root6.com +44 7787 554 801 On 26/02/2008 21:43, Alia Sheikh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: windows only for the moment but open ROOT 6 LIMITED Registered in the UK at 4 WARDOUR MEWS, LONDON W1F 8AJ Company No. 03433253 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
On Wednesday 27 February 2008 17:13:41 Dave Crossland wrote: Software freedom is very tightly defined - http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html Actually that is just one definition of software freedom. Just because you don't agree with others doesn't mean there is only one definition. You have been around long enough to know that not everyone actually agrees with the definition you refer to above, viewing it as either too limited or too constrictive depending on the groups discussing it. Heck there are multiple definitions of the word freedom in itself. The OED for example lists 15 main definitions of the word, and if you include the sub/alternate in each it lists 25 definitions in total. Furthermore, freedom itself is a philosophical concept, something that's been argued back and forth by philosophers for millenia, right back to the ancient greeks and probably before as well - that's just the earliest that generally gets discussed - the idea can be traced back to the earliest writings in Sumerian. The definition you refer to above is clearly based on Kant's ethics which are historically philosophically speaking a relatively new invention/concept. (evidence for this is in the GNU manifesto for example, since it refers to Kant's law of universaility) Other bases for ethics including for example the stoics (or neo-stoic) gives a rock solid, 100% ethical definition of freedom which when applied to software would probably give rise to a definition which would mean the BSD license is more free than the GPL license because it does not seek to exert power over the recipient. Now, just because it's 100% ethical doesn't mean it's something you agree with or have to. After all, most of the world's religions can probably make the same claim, and the chances of everyone picking the same religion (or lack thereof) are next to none. (it's a relevant comment because you could probably write an interesting essay comparing and contrasting similarities and differences of philosophical - rather than religious - points raised by the stoics and buddists for example) Yes, the BSD leaves the recipient the ability to exert power over others, but a BSD user is explicitly waiving that option (unlike a GPL user) to exert power over others (as they should have freedom to do so). Also, the fact that there are still BSD licensed TCP/IP stacks after nearly 30 years, that would tend to suggest that the negative impact is less than you might expect. (matching the stoic concept of dispreferred rather than that of good/evil) I suspect that the reason for that is the very simple fact that people are free to produce alternative implementations to achieve the same goals. (meaning the really preferred aspect here is openly implementable standards - which of course requires access to said standards) Anyway that's a digression - you are saying above that you use a commonly referred to definition, however it is not the only one in use. Saying that any single definition of freedom is correct, and defined as right misses the fact that it's one of the most contested concepts in history, mainly because everyone wants it for the obvious reasons. I'd like the freedom to run whatever software I like on my own machine I like for example, without people dogmatically telling me I'm wrong for doing so. Even if I choose to use a proprietary program on a open source operating system. Sorry, I'm not wrong, it's my choice. You don't have to make the same choices. That's a form of freedom. Heck, it's another form of software freedom - the choice to pick and choose whatever software I want to use. Furthermore, you can easily argue that there's nothing wrong with picking and choosing whatever tool is convenient and easy to prototype ideas that could be developed as services or tools, since that's what the person doing it wants the freedom to do. However I feel (note: opinion) it would be only appropriate to ship as a *service* in a form that allows for multiple reimplementations. (the simplest way of course there to be to define an open definition for access to said service which can then evolve into and open standard) Dogmatically going around *judging* other people's views on a very simplist narrow view of freedom smacks to me of not be able to have independent thought. Which is odd, because you don't normally come across that way, when you do think for yourself. Michael. -- NB: All the above is opinion and my opinion at that. Opinions do get swayed and revised, and its entirely possible that others may share these opinions, but as far as I know they're not my employer's :-) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
On Wednesday 27 February 2008 14:00:18 Richard Lockwood wrote: It's a mature way of dealing with trolls on mailing lists, yes. I tend to try ask people to accept that other people have differing views and to ask them politely not to impose their views on everyone first before dumping them in the trash. Despite using usenet for over 15 years, and having been on numerous mailing lists and fora I've only ever plonked one person. (though not publically, I see little point in making a statement out of it). I don't think Dave's reached that stage for me. Michael. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
