Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
Hi David, The Freesat platform is being set up and managed by a separate company (of the same name) that has been set up by those participating (BBC, ITV etc). I've asked around the team at RD who are working with them on the technical infrastructure and specifications. Unfortunately it looks like the information you're after will not be widely available (at least not yet). What I've been able to establish is that Freesat identified the need to guarantee a supply of compliant set top boxes at launch. A group of manufacturers have agreed to do so, but only in exchange for a limited term of exclusive access to the specification. I have no idea what the length of this exclusivity arrangement will be. Personally, I would very much like to see these specs eventually opened up - we've certainly benefited from many of the open-source developments for DVB-T / Freeview. I believe Freesat are aware of this consideration, so I'm hoping it will be something they eventually choose to do. This is as much as I have been able to find out for you. Apologies for it taking a little while. Matt On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:58:55 -, David Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know if this is the right place to ask but I was wondering if there was information available about the technical details of Freesat that could be used in open source projects. Specifically, I wrote and maintain the MHEG engine that is used in MythTV. It appears that the BBC has started test transmissions on satellite of the MHEG interactive service. It's possible to view much of this using the current code in MythTV but it seems that the profile on Freesat is a superset of the Freeview profile so not everything works. Presumably information about this is available to the builders of set-top boxes but it would be nice if it could be available for open-source projects. There have also been references to the EPG information being transmitted but again there is nothing publicly available about how to decode it. Incidentally, I've been working on a translation of the MHEG engine from its original C++ into Java to produce an application/applet for viewing MHEG offline or via HTTP. I'm rather short of MHEG test programs although I have recorded some of the carousels off air. Does the BBC have some test programs available? David. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- | Matt Hammond | Research Engineer, FMT, BBC, Kingswood Warren, Tadworth, Surrey, UK | http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
people don't have a moral obligation to share with other if they don't want to From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Barber Sent: 28 February 2008 18:12 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds So to put this thread back on track, does anyone have any experience with Air? Developing or using? On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday 28 February 2008 15:58:08 Dave Crossland wrote: Even if I choose to use a proprietary program on a open source operating system. Sorry, I'm not wrong, Sorry, you agree not to share with me, which is wrong. *plonk* Michael. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Fwd: [Gnash-dev] EFF: Adobe Pushes DRM for Flash
:-) -- Forwarded message -- From: John Gilmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 29 Feb 2008 03:31 Subject: [Gnash-dev] EFF: Adobe Pushes DRM for Flash To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/02/adobe-pushes-drm-flash ... most sites that use these [Flash and FLV] formats simply serve standalone, unencrypted files via ordinary web servers. Now Adobe, which controls Flash and Flash Video, is trying to change that with the introduction of DRM restrictions in version 9 of its Flash Player and version 3 of its Flash Media Server software. Instead of an ordinary web download, these programs can use a proprietary, secret Adobe protocol to talk to each other, encrypting the communication and locking out non-Adobe software players and video tools. We imagine that Adobe has no illusions that this will stop copyright infringement -- any more than dozens of other DRM systems have done so -- but the introduction of encryption does give Adobe and its customers a powerful new legal weapon against competitors and ordinary users through the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Recall that the DMCA sets out a blanket ban on tools that help circumvent any DRM system (as well as the act of circumvention itself). When Flash Video files are simply hosted on a web site with no encryption, it's unlikely that tools to download, edit, or remix them are illegal. But when encryption enters the picture, entertainment companies argue that fair use is no excuse; Adobe, or customers using Flash Media Server 3, can try to shut down users who break the encryption without having to prove that the users are doing anything copyright-infringing. Even if users aren't targeted directly, technology developers may be threatened and the technologies the users need driven underground. Users may also have to upgrade their Flash Player software (and open source alternatives like Gnash, which has been making rapid progress, may be unable to play the encrypted streams at all). ... ___ Gnash-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnash-dev -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
Quoting Nick Reynolds-FMT [EMAIL PROTECTED]: people don't have a moral obligation to share with other if they don't want to Nobody is saying that they do. But people should not generally be prevented from helping others, for example by sharing with them, should they wish to do so. - Rob. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
Hi Matt, Thanks for taking the trouble to find out. I rather thought that there would be some issue of exclusive access to the specs. At least Freesat are aware of the issue. From the MHEG side I can at least experiment with the test streams that are already being transmitted and try to reverse engineer them. It mostly works already with the current code and I was actually alerted to the test streams by someone noticing the Press Red banner. What would be really nice would be to have some information that would allow MythTV to use the EPG information in Freesat. There have been hints about where the test transmissions might be found but nothing substantive. Clearly the success of Freesat depends on the involvement of the set-top box manufacturers. However, open source projects also have a role to play in providing testing and feedback. After all, at the moment probably the only people who can view the MHEG test transmissions, outside the labs, are MythTV users. Thanks again, David Matt Hammond wrote: Hi David, The Freesat platform is being set up and managed by a separate company (of the same name) that has been set up by those participating (BBC, ITV etc). I've asked around the team at RD who are working with them on the technical infrastructure and specifications. Unfortunately it looks like the information you're after will not be widely available (at least not yet). What I've been able to establish is that Freesat identified the need to guarantee a supply of compliant set top boxes at launch. A group of manufacturers have agreed to do so, but only in exchange for a limited term of exclusive access to the specification. I have no idea what the length of this exclusivity arrangement will be. Personally, I would very much like to see these specs eventually opened up - we've certainly benefited from many of the open-source developments for DVB-T / Freeview. I believe Freesat are aware of this consideration, so I'm hoping it will be something they eventually choose to do. This is as much as I have been able to find out for you. Apologies for it taking a little while. Matt On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:58:55 -, David Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know if this is the right place to ask but I was wondering if there was information available about the technical details of Freesat that could be used in open source projects. Specifically, I wrote and maintain the MHEG engine that is used in MythTV. It appears that the BBC has started test transmissions on satellite of the MHEG interactive service. It's possible to view much of this using the current code in MythTV but it seems that the profile on Freesat is a superset of the Freeview profile so not everything works. Presumably information about this is available to the builders of set-top boxes but it would be nice if it could be available for open-source projects. There have also been references to the EPG information being transmitted but again there is nothing publicly available about how to decode it. Incidentally, I've been working on a translation of the MHEG engine from its original C++ into Java to produce an application/applet for viewing MHEG offline or via HTTP. I'm rather short of MHEG test programs although I have recorded some of the carousels off air. Does the BBC have some test programs available? David. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
Then it comes down to the individual who is entitled to choose a system that prevents sharing if they wish. It's not wrong to refuse to share with someone. As was implied earlier. However it is probably true that sharing works better than not sharing in some circumstances. People are confusing practicality with morality i.e. open systems work with this means that everything must be shared. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 February 2008 10:49 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds Quoting Nick Reynolds-FMT [EMAIL PROTECTED]: people don't have a moral obligation to share with other if they don't want to Nobody is saying that they do. But people should not generally be prevented from helping others, for example by sharing with them, should they wish to do so. - Rob. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Fwd: [Gnash-dev] EFF: Adobe Pushes DRM for Flash
I think this is blurring the line between what constitutes DRM and what constitutes a proprietary streaming protocol. The article doesn't really go into any technical detail about what they're referring to, but I take it they're referring to RTMP. This isn't DRM as the files inside the protocol are the same video formats that would be streamed over the web. DRM tends to be applied to the files directly. To assert that RTMP is a DRM scheme would imply that it's primary purpose is to lock out unauthorised users. From what I gather, this isn't its primary purpose at all - it's just supposed to make streaming objects over the web to flash more flexible and efficient. From what I've read of the protocol written up in OS Flash, it's pretty obtuse but there doesn't seem to be any great effort made in it to lock out unauthorised users. Therefore RTMP is not DRM and that article is reactionary guff. Iain On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: :-) -- Forwarded message -- From: John Gilmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 29 Feb 2008 03:31 Subject: [Gnash-dev] EFF: Adobe Pushes DRM for Flash To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/02/adobe-pushes-drm-flash ... most sites that use these [Flash and FLV] formats simply serve standalone, unencrypted files via ordinary web servers. Now Adobe, which controls Flash and Flash Video, is trying to change that with the introduction of DRM restrictions in version 9 of its Flash Player and version 3 of its Flash Media Server software. Instead of an ordinary web download, these programs can use a proprietary, secret Adobe protocol to talk to each other, encrypting the communication and locking out non-Adobe software players and video tools. We imagine that Adobe has no illusions that this will stop copyright infringement -- any more than dozens of other DRM systems have done so -- but the introduction of encryption does give Adobe and its customers a powerful new legal weapon against competitors and ordinary users through the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Recall that the DMCA sets out a blanket ban on tools that help circumvent any DRM system (as well as the act of circumvention itself). When Flash Video files are simply hosted on a web site with no encryption, it's unlikely that tools to download, edit, or remix them are illegal. But when encryption enters the picture, entertainment companies argue that fair use is no excuse; Adobe, or customers using Flash Media Server 3, can try to shut down users who break the encryption without having to prove that the users are doing anything copyright-infringing. Even if users aren't targeted directly, technology developers may be threatened and the technologies the users need driven underground. Users may also have to upgrade their Flash Player software (and open source alternatives like Gnash, which has been making rapid progress, may be unable to play the encrypted streams at all). ... ___ Gnash-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnash-dev -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Fwd: [Gnash-dev] EFF: Adobe Pushes DRM for Flash
http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200704/041607AMP.html snip For content publishers, Adobe Media Player enables better ways to deliver, monetize, brand, track and protect video content. It provides an array of video delivery options for high-quality online and offline playback, including on-demand streaming, live streaming, progressive download, and protected download-and-play. The Adobe Media Player enables a wider selection of monetization and branding options including viewer-centric dynamic advertising and the ability to customize the look and feel of the player on the fly to match the brand or theme of the currently playing content. Advanced Analytics and Content Protection The technology provides content publishers a standardized toolbox to deploy a variety of innovative new advertising formats, and to compile permission-based analytics data, both online and offline, to better understand their audiences. Building on Adobe's rich history of document protection technology, Adobe Media Player plans to offer content publishers a range of protection options, including streaming encryption, content integrity protection and identity-based protection. /snip On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Iain Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think this is blurring the line between what constitutes DRM and what constitutes a proprietary streaming protocol. The article doesn't really go into any technical detail about what they're referring to, but I take it they're referring to RTMP. This isn't DRM as the files inside the protocol are the same video formats that would be streamed over the web. DRM tends to be applied to the files directly. To assert that RTMP is a DRM scheme would imply that it's primary purpose is to lock out unauthorised users. From what I gather, this isn't its primary purpose at all - it's just supposed to make streaming objects over the web to flash more flexible and efficient. From what I've read of the protocol written up in OS Flash, it's pretty obtuse but there doesn't seem to be any great effort made in it to lock out unauthorised users. Therefore RTMP is not DRM and that article is reactionary guff. Iain On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: :-) -- Forwarded message -- From: John Gilmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 29 Feb 2008 03:31 Subject: [Gnash-dev] EFF: Adobe Pushes DRM for Flash To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/02/adobe-pushes-drm-flash ... most sites that use these [Flash and FLV] formats simply serve standalone, unencrypted files via ordinary web servers. Now Adobe, which controls Flash and Flash Video, is trying to change that with the introduction of DRM restrictions in version 9 of its Flash Player and version 3 of its Flash Media Server software. Instead of an ordinary web download, these programs can use a proprietary, secret Adobe protocol to talk to each other, encrypting the communication and locking out non-Adobe software players and video tools. We imagine that Adobe has no illusions that this will stop copyright infringement -- any more than dozens of other DRM systems have done so -- but the introduction of encryption does give Adobe and its customers a powerful new legal weapon against competitors and ordinary users through the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Recall that the DMCA sets out a blanket ban on tools that help circumvent any DRM system (as well as the act of circumvention itself). When Flash Video files are simply hosted on a web site with no encryption, it's unlikely that tools to download, edit, or remix them are illegal. But when encryption enters the picture, entertainment companies argue that fair use is no excuse; Adobe, or customers using Flash Media Server 3, can try to shut down users who break the encryption without having to prove that the users are doing anything copyright-infringing. Even if users aren't targeted directly, technology developers may be threatened and the technologies the users need driven underground. Users may also have to upgrade their Flash Player software (and open source alternatives like Gnash, which has been making rapid progress, may be unable to play the encrypted streams at all). ... ___ Gnash-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnash-dev -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please
Re: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
On 26/02/2008, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's never bothered Dave before. Actually of all the free software advocates, Dave is certainly the least confrontational, and most friendly. *You* may disagree with his views, however your actions demonstrate your readiness to listen to other opinions and attitudes. Dave, and for that matter many people on bbc-backstage, are quite happy to point out where they disagree with your ideas one minute, but readily agree on another issue. If you don't inhabit the fantasy world that is Davetopia, you must be related to the anti-Christ. He'll a one issue troll, who'll quite happily try insult anyone who disagrees with his zealot tendencies. I don't think Dave is the monster you make him out to be. (disclaimer: I'm a Free Software supporter) -- www.dobo.urandom.co.uk If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
I agree with Tim Dobson and welcome getting views that make me think from all parts of the thought spectrum. Consider may of posts I read to be thought provoking. If other people feel they are trolled by Dave's views, then that's their own feelings - but I welcome his comments and find the vilification of him rather feeble and self-defeating. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tim Dobson Sent: 29 February 2008 12:24 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds On 26/02/2008, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's never bothered Dave before. Actually of all the free software advocates, Dave is certainly the least confrontational, and most friendly. *You* may disagree with his views, however your actions demonstrate your readiness to listen to other opinions and attitudes. Dave, and for that matter many people on bbc-backstage, are quite happy to point out where they disagree with your ideas one minute, but readily agree on another issue. If you don't inhabit the fantasy world that is Davetopia, you must be related to the anti-Christ. He'll a one issue troll, who'll quite happily try insult anyone who disagrees with his zealot tendencies. I don't think Dave is the monster you make him out to be. (disclaimer: I'm a Free Software supporter) -- www.dobo.urandom.co.uk If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
Quoting Nick Reynolds-FMT [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It's not wrong to refuse to share with someone. As was implied earlier. It depends on the circumstances. But what is wrong is to forbid people from being to help people regardless of the circumstances, for example by sharing with them, even if they want to. This is what proprietary software does. People are confusing practicality with morality i.e. open systems work with this means that everything must be shared. People are not confusing practicality with morality. Just because a particular piece of proprietary software provides some given functionality that doesn't excuse it from moral considerations. - Rob. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
On 29/02/2008, Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course the BBC has a duty to educate. The use of proprietary protocols/formats is a direct contradiction to this duty. How can we educate people when we can not even tell them how things work. It is really damaging the future of education and the BBC must not assist with it. Isn't that akin to criticising the BBC for not making sure everyone knows about how its (former) transmitters work? There's obviously a sliding scale, but the message is more important than the medium here. When learning about technology it is useful to to find out how current solutions actually work. With open protocols it is entirely possible to do this, for instance if I want to know how a particular part of IPv6 works I can read an RFC and I will have more knowledge as a result and be able to design better protocols in the future. With proprietary protocols one is prevented from learning how it operates so would need to start from scratch with less knowledge of how the problems have been tackled in the past. But for what proportion of the BBC's audience is this a concern, one that's more important than them being able to easily consume the BBC's output using something that they already have access to, that they're familiar with, and that their kids can fix when it breaks? Peter -- Peter Bowyer Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
On 29/02/2008, Peter Bowyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't that akin to criticising the BBC for not making sure everyone knows about how its (former) transmitters work? You are entirely misinterpreting what I am saying. I didn't say the BBC should make sure everyone knows how their protocols work, they should allow the people who want to know. I gave an example, I would have thought that made it clear. I am not entirely sure what you mean by how its (former) transmitters work. I can find information for you regarding how DVB works, is that what you wanted? For that you need ETSI EN 300 744 V1.5.1 Digital Video Broadcasting (DVB);Framing structure, channel coding and modulation for digital terrestrial television Enter it into the form at: http://pda.etsi.org/pda/queryform.asp for free download. If you wanted to know about Analogue TV try: http://www.itu.int/rec/recquery_xml.asp?formName=SearchformStatus=inputsIn=Tlang=ensSeriesHidden=sRec=BT.470sWord=sArea=ALLsStatus=ANYsDocLang=ANYsDateFrom=sDateTo= You may be able to get it Free under the 3-Free scheme (you can download 3 Recommendations per year for free, see the ITU's website for details). If you want to know how transmitters in general work there are a number of books on the subject. Andy -- Computers are like air conditioners. Both stop working, if you open windows. -- Adam Heath - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
Of course the BBC has a duty to educate. The use of proprietary protocols/formats is a direct contradiction to this duty. How can we educate people when we can not even tell them how things work. I can see where your coming from in regard to the software that runs the platforms to deliver content - but aren't we overlooking another function of the BBC here, and that's to educate everyone, not just the guys (and girls) that like to look at the code and generate the apps. It's also important to consider everyone who just likes to turn on their TV and watch something, and go on the news website and check out the top stories. I'm not saying it's bad or good to use open-source - I like the idea of open and free software, but sometimes non-free software can do a great job too. But in a wider sense - yes, the education of function is certainly more important than the function itself - if that function is to continue evolving and improving.
Re: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
On 28/02/2008, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If the BBC publishes information in open formats/protocols that have only proprietary software implementations, it ought to be criticized and pressured to start or contribute to the development of free software implementations. Provided the formats are truly open, then it is not the BBC who should be criticised. Now if the BBC actually released all their specifications openly (i.e. had them accepted and published by the IETF for instance) then it would be the Free Software Community who is responsible if there are no free software implementations. Of course the BBC has a duty to educate. The use of proprietary protocols/formats is a direct contradiction to this duty. How can we educate people when we can not even tell them how things work. It is really damaging the future of education and the BBC must not assist with it. When learning about technology it is useful to to find out how current solutions actually work. With open protocols it is entirely possible to do this, for instance if I want to know how a particular part of IPv6 works I can read an RFC and I will have more knowledge as a result and be able to design better protocols in the future. With proprietary protocols one is prevented from learning how it operates so would need to start from scratch with less knowledge of how the problems have been tackled in the past. This certianly not good for the individuals, neither is it good for the industry as inferior technology will be produced and as such it's not good for the nation (and thus license fee payers). Thus I wouldn't consider that to be: (b) promoting education and learning; [and] (c) stimulating creativity and cultural excellence; Royal Charter for the continuation of the BBC (2006) Andy -- Computers are like air conditioners. Both stop working, if you open windows. -- Adam Heath - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But what is wrong is to forbid people from being to help people regardless of the circumstances, for example by sharing with them, even if they want to. This is what proprietary software does. It's also what happens when railways require photocards for season tickets, since that stops people sharing them and makes them buy their own. (I can't believe I'm making arguments in favour of proprietary software here... ;-) S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
I'd keep an eye on a thread over at digitalspy from others are experimenting with the Freesat EPG data currentlty being transmitted. http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=751053 Dave - Original Message - From: David Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects Hi Matt, Thanks for taking the trouble to find out. I rather thought that there would be some issue of exclusive access to the specs. At least Freesat are aware of the issue. From the MHEG side I can at least experiment with the test streams that are already being transmitted and try to reverse engineer them. It mostly works already with the current code and I was actually alerted to the test streams by someone noticing the Press Red banner. What would be really nice would be to have some information that would allow MythTV to use the EPG information in Freesat. There have been hints about where the test transmissions might be found but nothing substantive. Clearly the success of Freesat depends on the involvement of the set-top box manufacturers. However, open source projects also have a role to play in providing testing and feedback. After all, at the moment probably the only people who can view the MHEG test transmissions, outside the labs, are MythTV users. Thanks again, David Matt Hammond wrote: Hi David, The Freesat platform is being set up and managed by a separate company (of the same name) that has been set up by those participating (BBC, ITV etc). I've asked around the team at RD who are working with them on the technical infrastructure and specifications. Unfortunately it looks like the information you're after will not be widely available (at least not yet). What I've been able to establish is that Freesat identified the need to guarantee a supply of compliant set top boxes at launch. A group of manufacturers have agreed to do so, but only in exchange for a limited term of exclusive access to the specification. I have no idea what the length of this exclusivity arrangement will be. Personally, I would very much like to see these specs eventually opened up - we've certainly benefited from many of the open-source developments for DVB-T / Freeview. I believe Freesat are aware of this consideration, so I'm hoping it will be something they eventually choose to do. This is as much as I have been able to find out for you. Apologies for it taking a little while. Matt On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:58:55 -, David Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know if this is the right place to ask but I was wondering if there was information available about the technical details of Freesat that could be used in open source projects. Specifically, I wrote and maintain the MHEG engine that is used in MythTV. It appears that the BBC has started test transmissions on satellite of the MHEG interactive service. It's possible to view much of this using the current code in MythTV but it seems that the profile on Freesat is a superset of the Freeview profile so not everything works. Presumably information about this is available to the builders of set-top boxes but it would be nice if it could be available for open-source projects. There have also been references to the EPG information being transmitted but again there is nothing publicly available about how to decode it. Incidentally, I've been working on a translation of the MHEG engine from its original C++ into Java to produce an application/applet for viewing MHEG offline or via HTTP. I'm rather short of MHEG test programs although I have recorded some of the carousels off air. Does the BBC have some test programs available? David. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
