Re: [backstage] One-day Conference To Help Web Developers AddressAccessibility in Web 2.0
I recently attended: an evening event at Google in London. Only three of around sixty developers present admitted to any knowledge or experience with accessibility. two day semantic barcamp in London again only three of around sixty developers present admitted to any knowledge or experience with accessibility. This means that whilst there is plenty of interest, one has to place the bar low, and fully explore how the group can start to grapple in a practical fashion. regards Jonathan Chetwynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.peepo.com/ +44 (0) 20 7978 1764 On 3 Mar 2008, at 19:50, Ian Forrester wrote: Maybe one day might not be enough, but it’s a hell of a lot better that none at all. Currently whose actually thinking or writing about this stuff? Very few people I would say. Its something which has been forgotten about. Maybe the success of this one day conference might trigger more deeper talks or conferences about the subject, but you got to start somewhere. Cheers Ian Forrester This e-mail is: [] private; [] ask first; [x] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: +44 (0)2080083965 mob: +44 (0)7711913293 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ST Sent: 03 March 2008 16:14 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] One-day Conference To Help Web Developers AddressAccessibility in Web 2.0 Quoting Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Robin Christopherson Web Services Manager of AbilityNet said “We believe it’s time for the focus to come back onto Accessibility, and that a conference of this kind is what is needed to help developers make their Web 2.0 applications accessible. It promises to be a highly practical day, where delegates come away knowing exactly what they need to do, and where they need to focus to make sure they consider accessibility in their products. With some of the biggest and best names in the industry we are very excited about what this event is going to bring to individuals and the industry as a whole.” Is one day really enough to do justice to this subject. What do we mean by accessibility? Do we mean people with differing levels of computer literacy and the design of sites and services to evolve to be fully inclusive? Do we mean accessibility for those with presbycusis, protanopia, deuteranopia, photosensitive epilepsy, tinnitus and other "mildly" disabling issues, all of which are specialist use cases. If designers design to be inclusive of all these cases, they are noticeably limited in design schemes and technologies, but normally can create something useful to all. Alternatively, can the data be available in alternative guises, like in BETSIE? For more debilitating issues, it is often necessary to design in such a way that the data may be accessed in alternative ways, like feed readers, text-to-speech engines? Is there a open-standard method? Then what are the legal aspects of the design implementation, from the DPA requirements of holding data about end-users abilities, to the potential for legislation like the Broadcasting Act but for the internet with regards to presentation of access services and OFCOM's guidances on photosensitive epilepsy. -- ST [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] What would you love to see coming out of BBC Vision in the near future?
On the back of Tim's suggestions about broadening the scope wider than just feeds, would it ever be possible to register for a dev account like youtube, delicious etc and get greater access to data in a way that tech bods at the BBC could 'control' more? S. On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Tim Dobson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ian Forrester wrote: > > I was hoping to get a brainstorm of ideas for APIs and Feeds you would > love to play with in the near future, while focusing on Vision/TV > > After Barcamp I think there are a few ideas in a more generally > direction, not just about feeds and API's... > > > Anything more? > > - Free Software Orientated Stuff > - Open Standards Orientated Stuff > - Freely Licenced Stuff > - Stuff that works Up North > - Stuff that I need Vista + Digital Restrictions Management(DRM) to use > > See if you can spot the one I put in to test whether you were awake :P > > Bet you could see those coming ;) > > -- > www.blog.tdobson.net > > If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us > still has one object. > If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now > has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw > - > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please > visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. > Unofficial list archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ >
Re: [backstage] One-day Conference To Help Web Developers Address Accessibility in Web 2.0
Ian Forrester wrote: Hope to see you all there, Cool, so presumably travel and funding arrangements have been made for people/students from the north, (which is deprived of bbc events :( ) so that a wide range of different people can attend this interesting and important event? Tim -- www.blog.tdobson.net If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] What would you love to see coming out of BBC Vision in the near future?
Ian Forrester wrote: I was hoping to get a brainstorm of ideas for APIs and Feeds you would love to play with in the near future, while focusing on Vision/TV After Barcamp I think there are a few ideas in a more generally direction, not just about feeds and API's... Anything more? - Free Software Orientated Stuff - Open Standards Orientated Stuff - Freely Licenced Stuff - Stuff that works Up North - Stuff that I need Vista + Digital Restrictions Management(DRM) to use See if you can spot the one I put in to test whether you were awake :P Bet you could see those coming ;) -- www.blog.tdobson.net If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] What would you love to see coming out of BBC Vision in the near future?
sounds like a great plan, tom -- many of us inside the BBC are quite into dbpedia and linked data, so i think it's not out of the question to attempt what you suggest... here's an example of some work in that direction by my colleague michael smethurst: http://bbc-hackday.dyndns.org:2825/programmes/29xn (currently down, tho -- michael?) my followup question for you and the list, though, is this: what algorithms and methods exist to bootstrap the kind of linking you advocate? it's doubtful that we're going to be able to do all this linking, however valuable, by hand. i.e. what (semi-)automated methods exist for linking all the BBC programme catalogue resources to their corresponding dbpedia/wikipedia/musicbrainz et al resources? for instance, we should be linking: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b009070m & perhaps http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b0091v4d.shtml to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Find_Me_The_Face (or rather its dbpedia URI: http://dbpedia.org/resource/Find_Me_The_Face, i guess) but what ways exist to do this script-o-matically? thoughts? best-- --cs -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Tom Morris Sent: Mon 3/3/2008 8:37 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] What would you love to see coming out of BBC Vision in the near future? On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi All, > > I was hoping to get a brainstorm of ideas for APIs and Feeds you would love > to play with in the near future, while focusing on Vision/TV > > I got most of the obvious stuff like, > > - A 31 day schedule in XML > - TV schedules as a API with past and future ability > - Direct links to iplayer programmes > - XML/RSS/ATOM/JSON of upcoming iplayer programmes > - XML/RSS/ATOM/JSON of programmes about to drop off iplayer > - Links between programmes and their programme catalogue entry > - The Programme Catalogue! :) It'd be nice if the BBC could publish RDF of their whole programme catalogue and add it to the already growing sphere of Linked Open Data: http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenData Hook the programmes in with parts of the diagram on the page - eg: - for all programmes, link them to the DBPedia resource for that programme if it exists on Wikipedia - for actors and presenters, link them to their DBPedia resource - for music programmes, link bands and songs in - for news and factual programmes, link them to online stories that cover the same story - for review programmes (like Newsnight Review), link in the relevant discussed books/authors/films/plays etc. - for things which happen in a particular place, link them into Geonames - for dramatic re-enactments, link them to what they were re-enacting (historical events, books, plays etc.) - in political coverage, link through to details about the relevant politicians and legislation Less hacking RSS and Atom to do things for which they were not intended (they are feed formats, not universal containers). -- Tom Morris http://tommorris.org/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ <>
Re: [backstage] Data Portability?
On 03/03/2008, Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Reading around DP criticism, I see > > http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/ > > which echoes my concerns. > > People keep making that mistake, data portability is not just > about the social graph, its so much more. But is "so much more" just a rebranded subset of the semantic web? -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] What would you love to see coming out of BBC Vision in the near future?
On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi All, > > I was hoping to get a brainstorm of ideas for APIs and Feeds you would love > to play with in the near future, while focusing on Vision/TV > > I got most of the obvious stuff like, > > - A 31 day schedule in XML > - TV schedules as a API with past and future ability > - Direct links to iplayer programmes > - XML/RSS/ATOM/JSON of upcoming iplayer programmes > - XML/RSS/ATOM/JSON of programmes about to drop off iplayer > - Links between programmes and their programme catalogue entry > - The Programme Catalogue! :) It'd be nice if the BBC could publish RDF of their whole programme catalogue and add it to the already growing sphere of Linked Open Data: http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenData Hook the programmes in with parts of the diagram on the page - eg: - for all programmes, link them to the DBPedia resource for that programme if it exists on Wikipedia - for actors and presenters, link them to their DBPedia resource - for music programmes, link bands and songs in - for news and factual programmes, link them to online stories that cover the same story - for review programmes (like Newsnight Review), link in the relevant discussed books/authors/films/plays etc. - for things which happen in a particular place, link them into Geonames - for dramatic re-enactments, link them to what they were re-enacting (historical events, books, plays etc.) - in political coverage, link through to details about the relevant politicians and legislation Less hacking RSS and Atom to do things for which they were not intended (they are feed formats, not universal containers). -- Tom Morris http://tommorris.org/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Vint Cerf on the future of the Internet
I had the honor and privilege of meeting Vint Cerf in Geneva last week and although he didn't have time for an audio interview, he very graciously agreed to answer my questions by e-mail: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080303140032154 Sean. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] What would you love to see coming out of BBC Vision in the near future?
Maybe it's implicit in your list but it'd be great if there could be some kind of image per item in the feed. I'm thinking mostly of iPlayer schedule and having some kind of still from each show. Call me superficial but I think an rss feed is a much more attractive prospect to work with when you can use it to sprinkle a bit of imagery over your page/ flash app/ whatever. I realise rights, server load etc might be an issue here though of course. S. On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi All, > > I was hoping to get a brainstorm of ideas for APIs and Feeds you would > love to play with in the near future, while focusing on Vision/TV > > I got most of the obvious stuff like, > > - A 31 day schedule in XML > - TV schedules as a API with past and future ability > - Direct links to iplayer programmes > - XML/RSS/ATOM/JSON of upcoming iplayer programmes > - XML/RSS/ATOM/JSON of programmes about to drop off iplayer > - Links between programmes and their programme catalogue entry > - The Programme Catalogue! :) > - A reference page or service for all programmes (/programmes in XML) > - XMPP pub/sub messages for upcoming programmes > - keywords > > Anything more? > > Ian Forrester > > This e-mail is: [x] private; [] ask first; [] bloggable > > Senior Producer, BBC Backstage > BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > work: +44 (0)2080083965 > mob: +44 (0)7711913293 > > - > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please > visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. > Unofficial list archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ >
RE: [backstage] Data Portability?
People keep making that mistake, data portability is not just about the social graph, its so much more. >From that link you sent, here's the slides - >http://www.slideshare.net/cubicgarden/data-portability-for-educators Data Accessability: The ability to address each element of my data with a URI when it is in the web app * Slide 53: Perma-linked Media Data Visibility: The ability of the user to control the visibility of the data in their account, so that the web app vendor does not set the default visibility policy, the user does * Slide 65: Sharing of content Data Removal: On account termination by the user, or by the vendor, all data in the user account must be deleted (possibly after a waiting period) * Slide 47: Deleting all traces of yourself Data Ownership: Data created/uploaded by the user belongs to the user, and only to the user; it is not automatically “co- owned by the web app vendor with all rights given in perpetuity,” as is so prevalent today * Slide 29: We want to licence our content Ian Forrester This e-mail is: [] private; [x] ask first; [] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: +44 (0)2080083965 mob: +44 (0)7711913293 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Crossland Sent: 03 March 2008 17:03 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Data Portability? "We're being spoon-fed baby food when we hunger for steak... the bits of meat that slip through are pre-chewed and tasteless." ;-) Reading around DP criticism, I see http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/ which echoes my concerns. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] One-day Conference To Help Web Developers AddressAccessibility in Web 2.0
Maybe one day might not be enough, but it’s a hell of a lot better that none at all. Currently whose actually thinking or writing about this stuff? Very few people I would say. Its something which has been forgotten about. Maybe the success of this one day conference might trigger more deeper talks or conferences about the subject, but you got to start somewhere. Cheers Ian Forrester This e-mail is: [] private; [] ask first; [x] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: +44 (0)2080083965 mob: +44 (0)7711913293 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ST Sent: 03 March 2008 16:14 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] One-day Conference To Help Web Developers AddressAccessibility in Web 2.0 Quoting Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Robin Christopherson Web Services Manager of AbilityNet said “We > believe it’s time for the focus to come back onto Accessibility, and > that a conference of this kind is what is needed to help developers > make their Web 2.0 applications accessible. It promises to be a > highly practical day, where delegates come away knowing exactly what > they need to do, and where they need to focus to make sure they > consider accessibility in their products. With some of the biggest > and best names in the industry we are very excited about what this > event is going to bring to individuals and the industry as a whole.” > Is one day really enough to do justice to this subject. What do we mean by accessibility? Do we mean people with differing levels of computer literacy and the design of sites and services to evolve to be fully inclusive? Do we mean accessibility for those with presbycusis, protanopia, deuteranopia, photosensitive epilepsy, tinnitus and other "mildly" disabling issues, all of which are specialist use cases. If designers design to be inclusive of all these cases, they are noticeably limited in design schemes and technologies, but normally can create something useful to all. Alternatively, can the data be available in alternative guises, like in BETSIE? For more debilitating issues, it is often necessary to design in such a way that the data may be accessed in alternative ways, like feed readers, text-to-speech engines? Is there a open-standard method? Then what are the legal aspects of the design implementation, from the DPA requirements of holding data about end-users abilities, to the potential for legislation like the Broadcasting Act but for the internet with regards to presentation of access services and OFCOM's guidances on photosensitive epilepsy. -- ST [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] What would you love to see coming out of BBC Vision in the near future?
can you get hold of subtitle data from broadcasts? That would be amazing! So many possibilities. Someone I know who's been working on video tagging software was telling me that broadcasters (like the beeb) use a similar system, and sometimes broadcast some of the meta data. Apparently they use it for tagging events in sports matches and use that for pulling together highlights quickly. I'm sure production staff at the bbc are adding all kinds of meta richness to their video content, it would be great to be able to open some of that up. Ian Forrester wrote: Hi All, I was hoping to get a brainstorm of ideas for APIs and Feeds you would love to play with in the near future, while focusing on Vision/TV I got most of the obvious stuff like, - A 31 day schedule in XML - TV schedules as a API with past and future ability - Direct links to iplayer programmes - XML/RSS/ATOM/JSON of upcoming iplayer programmes - XML/RSS/ATOM/JSON of programmes about to drop off iplayer - Links between programmes and their programme catalogue entry - The Programme Catalogue! :) - A reference page or service for all programmes (/programmes in XML) - XMPP pub/sub messages for upcoming programmes - keywords Anything more? Ian Forrester This e-mail is: [x] private; [] ask first; [] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: +44 (0)2080083965 mob: +44 (0)7711913293 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- *** OPEN COFFEE 8 - http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/421269/ *** Glow New Media t: 0151 707 9770 m: 07730 987 574 www.glow-internet.com Suite 712 Gostins Building 32-36 Hanover Street Liverpool L1 4LN Map: http://tinyurl.com/2f5nxd - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] What would you love to see coming out of BBC Vision in the near future?
Hi All, I was hoping to get a brainstorm of ideas for APIs and Feeds you would love to play with in the near future, while focusing on Vision/TV I got most of the obvious stuff like, - A 31 day schedule in XML - TV schedules as a API with past and future ability - Direct links to iplayer programmes - XML/RSS/ATOM/JSON of upcoming iplayer programmes - XML/RSS/ATOM/JSON of programmes about to drop off iplayer - Links between programmes and their programme catalogue entry - The Programme Catalogue! :) - A reference page or service for all programmes (/programmes in XML) - XMPP pub/sub messages for upcoming programmes - keywords Anything more? Ian Forrester This e-mail is: [x] private; [] ask first; [] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: +44 (0)2080083965 mob: +44 (0)7711913293 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Data Portability?
Data Portability is promoting RDF. Amongst other formats, and for particular purposes, yes. > What about all the data that isn't in the social graph? I was only quoting you. Perhaps we should amend your original statement. > Better to concentrate on the principles, because once a business > understands those, they won't have any problem with each area of > application of those principles, as they arise. In the same way that, for example, Mozilla have understood these principles? Phil - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] One-day Conference To Help Web Developers Address Accessibility in Web 2.0
Quoting Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Robin Christopherson Web Services Manager of AbilityNet said “We believe it’s time for the focus to come back onto Accessibility, and that a conference of this kind is what is needed to help developers make their Web 2.0 applications accessible. It promises to be a highly practical day, where delegates come away knowing exactly what they need to do, and where they need to focus to make sure they consider accessibility in their products. With some of the biggest and best names in the industry we are very excited about what this event is going to bring to individuals and the industry as a whole.” Is one day really enough to do justice to this subject. What do we mean by accessibility? Do we mean people with differing levels of computer literacy and the design of sites and services to evolve to be fully inclusive? Do we mean accessibility for those with presbycusis, protanopia, deuteranopia, photosensitive epilepsy, tinnitus and other "mildly" disabling issues, all of which are specialist use cases. If designers design to be inclusive of all these cases, they are noticeably limited in design schemes and technologies, but normally can create something useful to all. Alternatively, can the data be available in alternative guises, like in BETSIE? For more debilitating issues, it is often necessary to design in such a way that the data may be accessed in alternative ways, like feed readers, text-to-speech engines? Is there a open-standard method? Then what are the legal aspects of the design implementation, from the DPA requirements of holding data about end-users abilities, to the potential for legislation like the Broadcasting Act but for the internet with regards to presentation of access services and OFCOM's guidances on photosensitive epilepsy. -- ST [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Data Portability?
On 03/03/2008, Phil Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Data Portability is promoting RDF.
>
> Amongst other formats, and for particular purposes, yes.
Right; DP is about only a few particular purposes, without the overall
principle (of building a semantic web)
> > What about all the data that isn't in the social graph?
>
> I was only quoting you. Perhaps we should amend your original statement.
Okay, I'll try again :-)
Will data portability get Web 2.0 companies to allow you to {im,ex}port
some minor aspects of data, like your social graph, from one silo to
the next, in W3C standards like RDF or other, less rigorous but currently
more popular ones? Or will it get hermetic Web 2.0 companies to
support the semantic web properly and stop being hermetic, by
allowing you to not just {im,ex}port, but query, delete, control the
visibility of, all your data?
"We're being spoon-fed baby food when we hunger for steak... the bits
of meat that slip
through are pre-chewed and tasteless." ;-)
Reading around DP criticism, I see
http://gigaom.com/2008/02/06/data-property-rights-not-portability/
which echoes my concerns.
> > Better to concentrate on the principles, because once a business
> > understands those, they won't have any problem with each area of
> > application of those principles, as they arise.
>
> In the same way that, for example, Mozilla have understood these principles?
Precisely - or are you under the illusion that Mozilla don't
distribute and promote proprietary software? Sadly, they have not
understood the principles of software freedom, which is why
http://gnuzilla.gnu.org is neccessary.
--
Regards,
Dave
-
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Re: [backstage] Data Portability?
On 03/03/2008, Phil Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Will data portability get Web 2.0 companies to allow you to export > > some minor aspects of data, like your social graph, from one silo to > > the next? Or will it get hermetic Web 2.0 companies to support the > > semantic web properly? > > So that you can export your social graph from one silo to another, but in RDF? Data Portability is promoting RDF. What about all the data that isn't in the social graph? Promoting some facades of the semweb is all well and good, but means a constant never ending campaign to get each successive facade accepted. Better to concentrate on the principles, because once a business understands those, they won't have any problem with each area of application of those principles, as they arise. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] One-day Conference To Help Web Developers Address Accessibility in Web 2.0
Hi All, We're involved in abilitynet's one day conference - www.abilitynet.org.uk/accessibility2 If you found our podcast about web 2.0 accessibility useful or interesting, this whole day of talks and discussions is just right for you. Robin Christopherson Web Services Manager of AbilityNet said “We believe it’s time for the focus to come back onto Accessibility, and that a conference of this kind is what is needed to help developers make their Web 2.0 applications accessible. It promises to be a highly practical day, where delegates come away knowing exactly what they need to do, and where they need to focus to make sure they consider accessibility in their products. With some of the biggest and best names in the industry we are very excited about what this event is going to bring to individuals and the industry as a whole.” Hope to see you all there, Ian Forrester This e-mail is: [x] private; [] ask first; [] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: +44 (0)2080083965 mob: +44 (0)7711913293 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Data Portability?
Will data portability get Web 2.0 companies to allow you to export some minor aspects of data, like your social graph, from one silo to the next? Or will it get hermetic Web 2.0 companies to support the semantic web properly? So that you can export your social graph from one silo to another, but in RDF? Phil - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Data Portability?
On 15/02/2008, Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm sure I raised this a while ago but I was wondering what > peoples views of the data portability movement? It seems to me that how "open source" is to "software freedom," or how "NLP" is to Ericksonian Hypnosis (off topic but I thought I'd throw it in as I saw Derren Brown last week :-), is how "data portability" is to the "semantic web": A way of promoting peripheral aspects of a memeplex that has central aspects that are historical, philosophical, and challenging to think about. All are attempts to trick businesses into supporting something without pointing them at the real issues, because "business people don't care about that abstract stuff." For software freedom, that has meant businesses only deal with the peripheral issues and end up in conflict with the original movement. This is harmful for businesses and the software freedom movement, IMO. Eg, the British proprietary software company Xara was in trouble when Microsoft launched Acrylic and Adobe discarded Freehand to consolidate the proprietary drawing program market on Illustrator, so they made most of their drawing program free software. But they kept the small but core geometry library proprietary, so the software freedom community had no interest in it, and so Xara died. Will data portability get Web 2.0 companies to allow you to export some minor aspects of data, like your social graph, from one silo to the next? Or will it get hermetic Web 2.0 companies to support the semantic web properly? http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22data+portability+workgroup%22+sparql is not promising. Also, what bright spark came up with principle 11 of DPW? "Politics can stay at the door" is absurd, since the whole point of the DPW is political. Amusing Stallman quote: "Geeks like to think that they can ignore politics, you can leave politics alone, but politics won't leave you alone." -- Regards, Dave Personal opinion only, not the views of any employers. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Fwd: [Gnash-dev] EFF: Adobe Pushes DRM for Flash
On 03/03/2008, Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Monday 03 March 2008 06:45:35 Stephen Wolff wrote: > > i'd agree with that - having just joined the list, i did wonder what i was > > letting myself in for! > > Don't worry - you'll only be harassed I apologies if anyone thinks I've harassed them; I haven't followed up anything that has been snipped or not replied to, and I don't mean to be rude when posing challenging issues like the ethics of software development. I have recently been reflected flaming comments made to me back at people, here and elsewhere, which seems to only escalate things, so I'll stop that from now on. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Fwd: [Gnash-dev] EFF: Adobe Pushes DRM for Flash
Right ok, It is a shame yes, some people are very put off by this type of debate/flame/discussion. The backstage list (non-developer list) is usually pretty heated or cold, for example my email about data portability got all of about 2 replies while Adobe and DRM gets a ton of replies. This is fine, I'd rather we had the debate that not at all, but can I ask a couple of things of everyone 1. Please be aware the list is archived and searchable via google and others. - aka you act like a fool on the list and people for years to come will also see this. 2. Please have some respect for what each other have to say and please don't feel the need to defend your point from troll like behaviour. 3. There are different ideologies floating around the list, Dave Crossland for example believes all software should be free (as in freedom). These ideologies cause conflict where ever you go, and the list is no different. 4. Decision makers in the BBC and elsewhere read the list, so please remember to clarify your points and keep them on topic. 5. BBC Staff, its best to email from an external email address if possible, so the comment is yours and not of the BBC. Cheers, Ian Forrester This e-mail is: [ ] private; [ x ] ask first; [ ] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] p: +44 (0)2080083965 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Barber Sent: 02 March 2008 20:53 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Fwd: [Gnash-dev] EFF: Adobe Pushes DRM for Flash Time after time I see threads on here turn into nasty flames, it's a shame because the people involved usually have intelligent, well mannered opinions, and that's what I'd like to read... Everyone has indifferences but can't we enjoy and discuss each other's opinion rather than reject it? Just seems to be a lot of good points put down and replaced with arguments on this list lately and maybe it's time for everyone to take a step back and try to be a little more.. I don't know, calm maybe? Just a thought..
Re: [backstage] BBC Podcasts Programme Guide...
Carlos,
Great feeds, thanks.
Any chance you header("Content-type: text/xml") please?
On 28/02/2008, Carlos Roman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Hello, just wanted to say hi and say that we have another version up of
> our XML dump of podcasts feeds we produce. It is update every 30min and
> includes a link to latest episode (if there is one) and other
> information on the Podcasts. There is also some BBC specific info in
> there as well. We currently use/transform it for other internal
> applications but figured everyone can use it as well.
>
> Schema: http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/ppg.xsd
> Feed: http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/ppg.xml
>
> It is still an early version but any feed back on the feed would be
> great (or if you build anything interesting).
>
> Enjoy,
>-Carlos.
>
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
> Unofficial
> list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>
--
Please email me back if you need any more help.
Brian Butterworth
http://www.ukfree.tv
[backstage] Nobody likes DRM, including attorneys for Microsoft, Real
FYI http://www.betanews.com/article/Nobody_likes_DRM_including_attorneys_for_Microsoft_Real/1204236728 "*At this week's Digital Music Forum, lawyers managing digital rights for Microsoft's Zune music download site and RealNetworks' Rhapsody said that they too believe digital rights management to be more of a headache than an asset.*
Re: [backstage] A day in the life of a BBC Backstage widget
James, Many thanks for that. I find it odd that the only example of a Vista Widget that I have seen on a mainstream site is on http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ with the link to... http://gallery.live.com/LiveItemDetail.aspx?li=aef90e44-18cf-4246-b1d9-4ab83e0e13db On 02/03/2008, James Cridland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I posted here in September, talking about a BBC Weather widget I'd written > using BBC Backstage data. > > If you're interested how it's done, I've just dropped a blog about it. (I > believe "dropping a blog" is the new vernacular.) > > http://james.cridland.net/blog/2008/03/02/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-widget/ > > Hope some here find this useful. Geeks may like to see the picture which > accompanies it, which shows my Asus Eee desktop. Comments (here or on the > blog) are welcome. About the widget, not really about the Asus. (Which is > very good, by the way). > > -- > http://james.cridland.net/ | http://www.mediauk.com/ > > Media UK is a Not At All Bad Ltd production. > http://notatallbad.ltd.uk/legal_info/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] Fwd: [Gnash-dev] EFF: Adobe Pushes DRM for Flash
On Monday 03 March 2008 06:45:35 Stephen Wolff wrote: > i'd agree with that - having just joined the list, i did wonder what i was > letting myself in for! Don't worry - you'll only be harassed and accused of all sorts of things from conspiracies through to a lack of ethics if you happen to work for the BBC and are trying to do the right thing... I'm sure it discourages other people from chatting (sad to say). Mind you, as they've suggested in the past, I've now "deployed filters", meaning I'm now only seeing these meta-comments. On a more positive note, I gave a talk about Kamaelia at barcamp at the weekend about Kamaelia which I've posted up on slideshare. (Is that dropping a presentation? cf James's email ? :-) It's here for those interested: * http://www.slideshare.net/kamaelian/sociable-software Other refs regarding it I've mentioned in other places: * http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/Introduction * http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/Cookbook * http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/Components The other one mentioned was regarding the fact that it appears to be equivalent to a (much) older project called "MASCOT". The key reference I can find for that is this: * http://async.org.uk/Hugo.Simpson/MASCOT-3.1-Manual-June-1987.pdf I only found out about that last December, but it seems to validate everything in Kamaelia, in yet more problem domains :-) (Really interesting stuff. If people choose to only read one link out of these, I'd suggest reading the MASCOT one :-) Regards, Michael. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
