Re: [backstage] So Long and Thanks For All The Fish?

[Steve Jolly]

Brian Butterworth wrote:

I kind of thought that the BBC should use SI units for some reason...


What, and get pilloried in the press for pushing a metric agenda? :-)

S

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Re: [backstage] So Long and Thanks For All The Fish?

[Brian Butterworth]

2008/11/28 Steve Jolly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Brian Butterworth wrote:
>
>> Wow this is arcane.  We only got taught metric SI units at school...
>>
>
> Yeah, I prefer to avoid the imperial ones, but sometimes you can't - when
> working with Americans is a common scenario.


I kind of thought that the BBC should use SI units for some reason...


>
>
> S
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Re: [backstage] So Long and Thanks For All The Fish?

[Martin Deutsch]

When Ronnie Barker died, the BBC set up a nice tribute to him in the foyer
of TV Centre - a portrait of him, with four candles in front of it.
I'd been walking past it for several days before I got the significance.

 - martin

On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Richard P Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Did you mean fork-candles? :-)
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_candles
>
> Definitely something fishy going on Brian
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound-force
>
> Rich
>
>
>
> On 28 Nov 2008, at 11:37, Sean DALY wrote:
>
>  Could you please explain foot-candles?
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 10:22 AM, Brian Butterworth
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> A little nerdy Friday amusement...
>>> I saw an article about "Mystery of dolphins' speed solved" on BBC News.
>>> There was a small error - the measure of force was quoted in "kilograms".
>>> I wrote a little email ...
>>> COMMENTS: Whoever wrote http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7748754.stm
>>> must have failed basic science.
>>>
>>> "kg" is a measure of mass, but the story uses "kg" as a measure of
>>> force.
>>>
>>> Force is measured in Newtons (N)!
>>>
>>> I got a nice email back this morning saying
>>> Many thanks for alerting us. This error has now been corrected.
>>> So, I went to have a look ..  and they have changed "kg" to the imperial
>>> mass measure, lbs, and added "of force".
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Brian Butterworth
>>>
>>> follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
>>> web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and
>>> switchover
>>> advice, since 2002
>>>
>>>  -
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Re: [backstage] So Long and Thanks For All The Fish?

[Steve Jolly]

Brian Butterworth wrote:

Wow this is arcane.  We only got taught metric SI units at school...


Yeah, I prefer to avoid the imperial ones, but sometimes you can't - 
when working with Americans is a common scenario.


S
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Re: [backstage] So Long and Thanks For All The Fish?

[Peter Bowyer]

2008/11/28 Brian Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Wow this is arcane.  We only got taught metric SI units at school...

I was taught Imperial units and old money at junior school and
SI/decimal later. Made for fun times.

Peter
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Re: [backstage] So Long and Thanks For All The Fish?

[Richard P Edwards]

Did you mean fork-candles? :-)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_candles

Definitely something fishy going on Brian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound-force

Rich


On 28 Nov 2008, at 11:37, Sean DALY wrote:


Could you please explain foot-candles?


On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 10:22 AM, Brian Butterworth
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

A little nerdy Friday amusement...
I saw an article about "Mystery of dolphins' speed solved" on BBC  
News.
There was a small error - the measure of force was quoted in  
"kilograms".

I wrote a little email ...
COMMENTS: Whoever wrote http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7748754.stm
must have failed basic science.

"kg" is a measure of mass, but the story uses "kg" as a measure of
force.

Force is measured in Newtons (N)!

I got a nice email back this morning saying
Many thanks for alerting us. This error has now been corrected.
So, I went to have a look ..  and they have changed "kg" to the  
imperial

mass measure, lbs, and added "of force".
---

Brian Butterworth

follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and  
switchover

advice, since 2002


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Re: [backstage] So Long and Thanks For All The Fish?

[Brian Butterworth]

2008/11/28 Simon Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>  Brian Butterworth wrote:
>
>
>>
>>  lb-force is (was) an imperial measure of force, so they're perhaps
>> half-right.
>
>
>  Newtons are
>  m·kg·s-2
>
>  Which is distance x mass / time squared , lbs is just mass, unless "of
> force" is a magical way of saying distance / time squared?
>
>
>
> No, in imperial measurements the term pound can be used as a unit of force
> or mass, they are different measurements, and their meaning is derived from
> context.
>
> Sometimes pounds-force and pounds-mass if both are being discussed
> simultaneously.  If you're talking about force, the imperial unit of mass
> becomes the slug.
>

Wow this is arcane.  We only got taught metric SI units at school...


>
>
>
> --
>  --
> *Simon Thompson MEng MIET MIEEE*
>  Research Engineer (Electronics)
> PRINCE2TM Registered Practitioner
>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>



-- 

Brian Butterworth

follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover
advice, since 2002

Re: [backstage] So Long and Thanks For All The Fish?

[Peter Bowyer]

2008/11/28 Frank Wales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Nick Morrott wrote:
>> The Beeb could have used kiloponds as themetric force unit,
>
> Kiloponds, eh?  Why, that's very nearly a lake.  Which brings us
> back to the fish.  I'd say more, but I'd be out of my depth.

Angling for a laugh, eh? I certainly won't be taking the bait.


-- 
Peter Bowyer
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/peeebeee
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Re: [backstage] So Long and Thanks For All The Fish?

[Frank Wales]

Nick Morrott wrote:
> The Beeb could have used kiloponds as themetric force unit, 

Kiloponds, eh?  Why, that's very nearly a lake.  Which brings us
back to the fish.  I'd say more, but I'd be out of my depth.
-- 
Frank Wales [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [backstage] So Long and Thanks For All The Fish?

[Sean DALY]

Could you please explain foot-candles?


On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 10:22 AM, Brian Butterworth
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A little nerdy Friday amusement...
> I saw an article about "Mystery of dolphins' speed solved" on BBC News.
>  There was a small error - the measure of force was quoted in "kilograms".
> I wrote a little email ...
> COMMENTS: Whoever wrote http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7748754.stm
> must have failed basic science.
>
> "kg" is a measure of mass, but the story uses "kg" as a measure of
> force.
>
> Force is measured in Newtons (N)!
>
> I got a nice email back this morning saying
> Many thanks for alerting us. This error has now been corrected.
> So, I went to have a look ..  and they have changed "kg" to the imperial
> mass measure, lbs, and added "of force".
> ---
>
> Brian Butterworth
>
> follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
> web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover
> advice, since 2002
>
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Re: [backstage] So Long and Thanks For All The Fish?

[Nick Morrott]

On 28/11/2008, Peter Bowyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> 2008/11/28 Brian 
Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:>  > 2008/11/28 Peter Bowyer <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>>> >> lb-force is (was) an imperial measure of force, so they're 
perhaps>  >> half-right.>  >>  > Newtons are>  >  m·kg·s-2>  > Which is 
distance x mass / time squared , lbs is just mass, unless "of>  > force" is a 
magical way of saying distance / time squared?>>> Yes, something like that.>>  
I found a somewhat wordy discourse here:>  
http://gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/units/weight.htm>>  (search for 'force')
... and Wikipedia is never wrong...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound-force
Force should always have dimensions MLT^-2, but you also need to knowthe 
dimensions of the constituent units used in the F=ma calculation(there is 
lb-mass and lb-force).
The original article athttp://news.rpi.edu/update.do?artcenterkey=2518 uses 
Pounds of Force,and because this is an engineering rather than 
gravitationalapplication (and is in the US), pounds-force is likely the 
more'correct' unit to use. The Beeb could have used kiloponds as themetric 
force unit, but that would require conversion...
Nick
-- Nick Morrott
MythTV Official wiki:http://mythtv.org/wiki/MythTV users list 
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"An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: [backstage] So Long and Thanks For All The Fish?

[Simon Thompson]

Brian Butterworth wrote:




lb-force is (was) an imperial measure of force, so they're perhaps
half-right.


Newtons are
 m·kg·s^-2

^Which is distance x mass / time squared , lbs is just mass, unless 
"of force" is a magical way of saying distance / time squared? 




No, in imperial measurements the term pound can be used as a unit of 
force or mass, they are different measurements, and their meaning is 
derived from context.


Sometimes pounds-force and pounds-mass if both are being discussed 
simultaneously.  If you're talking about force, the imperial unit of 
mass becomes the slug.



--

*Simon Thompson MEng MIET MIEEE*
Research Engineer (Electronics)
PRINCE2^TM Registered Practitioner

Re: [backstage] So Long and Thanks For All The Fish?

[Peter Bowyer]

2008/11/28 Brian Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 2008/11/28 Peter Bowyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> lb-force is (was) an imperial measure of force, so they're perhaps
>> half-right.
>
> Newtons are
>  m·kg·s-2
> Which is distance x mass / time squared , lbs is just mass, unless "of
> force" is a magical way of saying distance / time squared?

Yes, something like that.

I found a somewhat wordy discourse here:
http://gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/units/weight.htm

(search for 'force')
-- 
Peter Bowyer
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/peeebeee

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Re: [backstage] So Long and Thanks For All The Fish?

[Brian Butterworth]

2008/11/28 Peter Bowyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> 2008/11/28 Brian Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > A little nerdy Friday amusement...
> > I saw an article about "Mystery of dolphins' speed solved" on BBC News.
> >  There was a small error - the measure of force was quoted in
> "kilograms".
> > I wrote a little email ...
> > COMMENTS: Whoever wrote http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7748754.stm
> > must have failed basic science.
> >
> > "kg" is a measure of mass, but the story uses "kg" as a measure of
> > force.
> >
> > Force is measured in Newtons (N)!
> >
> > I got a nice email back this morning saying
> > Many thanks for alerting us. This error has now been corrected.
> > So, I went to have a look ..  and they have changed "kg" to the imperial
> > mass measure, lbs, and added "of force".
>
> lb-force is (was) an imperial measure of force, so they're perhaps
> half-right.


Newtons are
 m·kg·s-2

Which is distance x mass / time squared , lbs is just mass, unless "of
force" is a magical way of saying distance / time squared?


>
> Peter
>
> --
> Peter Bowyer
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/peeebeee
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> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
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Re: [backstage] So Long and Thanks For All The Fish?

[Ian Graham]

A lb is also an imperial measure of force... roughly 250th of a kN...

Is this nerdy enough?

Quoting Brian Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


A little nerdy Friday amusement...

I saw an article about "Mystery of dolphins' speed solved" on BBC News.
 There was a small error - the measure of force was quoted in "kilograms".

I wrote a little email ...

COMMENTS: Whoever wrote http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7748754.stm
must have failed basic science.

"kg" is a measure of mass, but the story uses "kg" as a measure of
force.

Force is measured in Newtons (N)!

I got a nice email back this morning saying
Many thanks for alerting us. This error has now been corrected.

So, I went to have a look ..  and they have changed "kg" to the imperial mass
measure, lbs, and added "of force".

---

Brian Butterworth

follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover
advice, since 2002





--
Ian Graham, Senior Lecturer, Management School, University of Edinburgh.
Website: http://homepages.ed.ac.uk/grahami/

--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.



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Re: [backstage] So Long and Thanks For All The Fish?

[Peter Bowyer]

2008/11/28 Brian Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> A little nerdy Friday amusement...
> I saw an article about "Mystery of dolphins' speed solved" on BBC News.
>  There was a small error - the measure of force was quoted in "kilograms".
> I wrote a little email ...
> COMMENTS: Whoever wrote http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7748754.stm
> must have failed basic science.
>
> "kg" is a measure of mass, but the story uses "kg" as a measure of
> force.
>
> Force is measured in Newtons (N)!
>
> I got a nice email back this morning saying
> Many thanks for alerting us. This error has now been corrected.
> So, I went to have a look ..  and they have changed "kg" to the imperial
> mass measure, lbs, and added "of force".

lb-force is (was) an imperial measure of force, so they're perhaps half-right.

Peter

-- 
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Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[backstage] So Long and Thanks For All The Fish?

[Brian Butterworth]

A little nerdy Friday amusement...

I saw an article about "Mystery of dolphins' speed solved" on BBC News.
 There was a small error - the measure of force was quoted in "kilograms".

I wrote a little email ...

COMMENTS: Whoever wrote http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7748754.stm
must have failed basic science.

"kg" is a measure of mass, but the story uses "kg" as a measure of
force.

Force is measured in Newtons (N)!

I got a nice email back this morning saying
Many thanks for alerting us. This error has now been corrected.

So, I went to have a look ..  and they have changed "kg" to the imperial mass
measure, lbs, and added "of force".

---

Brian Butterworth

follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover
advice, since 2002