Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman
Mailing lists are a much more developer friendly approach. Probably the most common mechanisms out there in the many developer communities (When in Rome...). Matt On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 09:55:29 -, Nick Reynolds-FMT nick.reyno...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Why don't you set up an onshore BBC message board instead? -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Stephen Jolly Sent: 03 March 2010 17:32 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman On 3 Mar 2010, at 17:04, Ian Forrester wrote: Alright alright! I hear you all... So what's the first steps to make this happen? You could walk down to my end of the office and ask me about it? :-) S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- | Matt Hammond | Research Engineer, BBC RD, Centre House, London | http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Move to Mailman
Why? What can you do on a mailing list that you can't do on a message board? -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Matt Hammond Sent: 04 March 2010 10:28 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman Mailing lists are a much more developer friendly approach. Probably the most common mechanisms out there in the many developer communities (When in Rome...). Matt On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 09:55:29 -, Nick Reynolds-FMT nick.reyno...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Why don't you set up an onshore BBC message board instead? -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Stephen Jolly Sent: 03 March 2010 17:32 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman On 3 Mar 2010, at 17:04, Ian Forrester wrote: Alright alright! I hear you all... So what's the first steps to make this happen? You could walk down to my end of the office and ask me about it? :-) S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- | Matt Hammond | Research Engineer, BBC RD, Centre House, London | http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman
On 04/03/2010 10:40, Nick Reynolds-FMT nick.reyno...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Why? What can you do on a mailing list that you can't do on a message board? Erm, mail it? -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Matt Hammond Sent: 04 March 2010 10:28 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman Mailing lists are a much more developer friendly approach. Probably the most common mechanisms out there in the many developer communities (When in Rome...). Matt On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 09:55:29 -, Nick Reynolds-FMT nick.reyno...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Why don't you set up an onshore BBC message board instead? -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Stephen Jolly Sent: 03 March 2010 17:32 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman On 3 Mar 2010, at 17:04, Ian Forrester wrote: Alright alright! I hear you all... So what's the first steps to make this happen? You could walk down to my end of the office and ask me about it? :-) S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman
Nick Reynolds-FMT wrote: Why? What can you do on a mailing list that you can't do on a message board? Be involved in many many of them from a standard, user customisable (read infinitely customisable) system. Example: http://files.tdobson.net/ss/tbird.mail.040310.png I currently have 100+ mailing lists coming to my mail client on li...@tdobson.net. If 1 list = 1 messageboard, then to be able to easily scan over a similar number of subject areas would require me to log onto each individual message board and look at each individual thread. As all the mailing lists I subscribe to are presented in a standard way, that I'm allowed to define (threaded with newest threads at the top), then I'm able to make most efficient use of my time. :) Tim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Move to Mailman
Surely all these things could be possible on the BBC if we set it up right... -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Alan Pope Sent: 04 March 2010 10:56 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman On 4 March 2010 10:40, Nick Reynolds-FMT nick.reyno...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Why? What can you do on a mailing list that you can't do on a message board? Yay! Web boards vs mailing list religious debate! Read and reply to current posts whilst offline (email client of choice). Read the content of the message without downloading unnecessary crap like avatars, banners, adverts, great gobs of javascript - useful on 3G connections. Choose how the content is presented to you (console, web, fat mail client, news reader [via 3rd party]). Decently thread conversations in the client of your choice. Archive the content without relying on the server (i.e. keep mail in a folder) Search content without relying on the server (again, offline if required) etc etc. Al. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman
On 4 March 2010 11:09, Nick Reynolds-FMT nick.reyno...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Surely all these things could be possible on the BBC if we set it up right... Anything is _possible_. But by the time you've done all that and allowed all the customisation users will want you've taken on a vast and potentially endless project simply to replicate the functionality you'd have got in the first place by using a mailing list. S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Move to Mailman
-Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Nick Reynolds-FMT Surely all these things could be possible on the BBC if we set it up right... Developers like to get their data in different ways to 'regular' users, some of which Al has already enumerated below. Email clients, and the good mailing list packages, offer far better threading, navigation, and archiving across high-volume message sets than (for instance) the regular BBC messageboards do right now. Technical audiences really value these things, because it saves them time. The offline use case is a huge one - and whilst theoretically solvable for web-based technologies (Google Gears etc), you'd be reinventing the wheel for little gain. Mailing lists and email clients fulfil these criteria right now. In other words, if it ain't broke, one size doesn't fit all, etc etc. PT -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Alan Pope Sent: 04 March 2010 10:56 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman On 4 March 2010 10:40, Nick Reynolds-FMT nick.reyno...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Why? What can you do on a mailing list that you can't do on a message board? Yay! Web boards vs mailing list religious debate! Read and reply to current posts whilst offline (email client of choice). Read the content of the message without downloading unnecessary crap like avatars, banners, adverts, great gobs of javascript - useful on 3G connections. Choose how the content is presented to you (console, web, fat mail client, news reader [via 3rd party]). Decently thread conversations in the client of your choice. Archive the content without relying on the server (i.e. keep mail in a folder) Search content without relying on the server (again, offline if required) etc etc. Al. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman
On 4 March 2010 11:09, Nick Reynolds-FMT nick.reyno...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Surely all these things could be possible on the BBC if we set it up right... Why bodge a webboard to do things that a mailing list does already and does well. Every time I've seen a community move from a mailing list to a webboard two things happen:- * A token effort is made to appease the list-fans but it ends up not working well enough to be worthwhile * The community already there fragments, reduces in size or plain disappears. * A new community of people around the webboard grow up thinking that it's the only way to do things - which is a self-perpetuating spiral of death for all future mailing lists because the list-fans were pushed out so there's nobody left to defend how great lists are. * The list-fans get narked because they feel they haven't been listened to, and have been ousted from contributing to something they feel passionate about. Everybody loses. Al. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman
On 4 March 2010 11:41, Alan Pope a...@popey.com wrote: Every time I've seen a community move from a mailing list to a webboard two things happen:- I can't count. Cheers, Al. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Move to Mailman
Why would you want to do that - just clutters up an inbox... -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Smethurst Sent: 04 March 2010 10:52 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman On 04/03/2010 10:40, Nick Reynolds-FMT nick.reyno...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Why? What can you do on a mailing list that you can't do on a message board? Erm, mail it? -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Matt Hammond Sent: 04 March 2010 10:28 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman Mailing lists are a much more developer friendly approach. Probably the most common mechanisms out there in the many developer communities (When in Rome...). Matt On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 09:55:29 -, Nick Reynolds-FMT nick.reyno...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Why don't you set up an onshore BBC message board instead? -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Stephen Jolly Sent: 03 March 2010 17:32 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman On 3 Mar 2010, at 17:04, Ian Forrester wrote: Alright alright! I hear you all... So what's the first steps to make this happen? You could walk down to my end of the office and ask me about it? :-) S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman
On 4 Mar 2010, at 15:04, Nick Reynolds-FMT wrote: Why would you want to do that - just clutters up an inbox... if $h_Sender: matches owner-([a-zA-Z-.]*)@ and not delivered then save $home/mail/lists/$1 endif Exim filter files are great. S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman
just clutters up an inbox Oh the irony On 04/03/2010 15:04, Nick Reynolds-FMT nick.reyno...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Why would you want to do that - just clutters up an inbox... -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Smethurst Sent: 04 March 2010 10:52 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman On 04/03/2010 10:40, Nick Reynolds-FMT nick.reyno...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Why? What can you do on a mailing list that you can't do on a message board? Erm, mail it? -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Matt Hammond Sent: 04 March 2010 10:28 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman Mailing lists are a much more developer friendly approach. Probably the most common mechanisms out there in the many developer communities (When in Rome...). Matt On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 09:55:29 -, Nick Reynolds-FMT nick.reyno...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Why don't you set up an onshore BBC message board instead? -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Stephen Jolly Sent: 03 March 2010 17:32 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman On 3 Mar 2010, at 17:04, Ian Forrester wrote: Alright alright! I hear you all... So what's the first steps to make this happen? You could walk down to my end of the office and ask me about it? :-) S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 15:04, Nick Reynolds-FMT nick.reyno...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Why would you want to do that - just clutters up an inbox... All e-mail systems of any note have filtering forwarding capabilities which allow the receiver to choose with a high degree of granularity how up to date they should be kept up with activity on a list versus how much they need to be proactive in checking it. Why do you have “subscribe to new posts via e-mail” and “subscribe to new comments on this post via e-mail” options on your blog? :) M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Ian Forrester ian.forres...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Alright alright! I hear you all... So what's the first steps to make this happen? And you guys all sure you want mailman instead of something like a newsgroup or google group? If you go to mailman, folk will start chasing you for the RSS patch, which afaik isn't part of the core install yet... Happy hacking, Dan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman
On 3 Mar 2010, at 17:04, Ian Forrester wrote: Alright alright! I hear you all... So what's the first steps to make this happen? You could walk down to my end of the office and ask me about it? :-) S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman
On 3-Mar-2010, at 17:04, Ian Forrester wrote: Alright alright! I hear you all... So what's the first steps to make this happen? And you guys all sure you want mailman instead of something like a newsgroup or google group? Yes, go with Mailman. Don’t touch Google Groups with or without a pole used commonly on narrowboats. Newsgroups can be nice, but can be accomplished by other means… which reminds me, I must find out what happened to Gmane. Not seen anything pop up on gmane.announce about it. Probably best to wait until after the switch, though. /tuppence M. -- mo mcroberts http://nevali.net iChat: mo.mcrobe...@me.com Jabber/GTalk: m...@ilaven.net Twitter: @nevali Run Leopard or Snow Leopard? Set Quick Look free with DropLook - http://labs.jazzio.com/DropLook/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Move to Mailman
Ian Forrester wrote: Alright alright! I hear you all... So what's the first steps to make this happen? And you guys all sure you want mailman instead of something like a newsgroup or google group? Let the thread begin... The previous thread was pretty conclusive; Mailman * Perhaps a group of us could group together and like host a VPS with mailman on it? Thoughts? Tim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
