Re: You never really know: transsexual or gay?
I agree with Iskandar."Iskandar Hai, M.D." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: If one party to a marriage has gender assignment surgery some time later,after the marriage, I'd think that the other party might in all likelihoodwant to get a "divorce". I don't think that the other party will want tostay in that marriage. Unless there was sort of secret collusion oragreement before the marraige. In which case it was a faked marriage, asham marriage. Good wishes, Iskandar http://hasaneliasperu.blogspot.com/
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
Correo Yahoo!Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: You never really know: transsexual or gay?
If one party to a marriage has gender assignment surgery some time later,
after the marriage, I'd think that the other party might in all likelihood
want to get a "divorce". I don't think that the other party will want to
stay in that marriage. Unless there was sort of secret collusion or
agreement before the marraige. In which case it was a faked marriage, a
sham marriage.
Good wishes,
Iskandar
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail")
is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The
information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts
or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail
in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and
permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: You never really know: transsexual or gay?
Bob, Please share where in the Writings you found any reference to the spirit having a gender that it would have to have a body congruent to? My sense has been that the body gender is the clue to the lessons to be learned, not an indicator of spiritual gender. Please share if you have anything on this. sincerely, KarenScott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Richard brought these words of the Bab to our attention: "AS this physical frame is the throne of the inner temple, whatever occurs to the former is felt by the latter. In reality that which takes delight in joy or is saddened by pain is the inner temple of the body, not the body itself. (The Bab,
Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 94)" That same citation is followed immediately by this: "The inner temple beholdeth its physical frame, which is its throne. Thus, if the latter is accorded respect, it is as if the former is the recipient. The converse is likewise true. "Therefore, it hath been ordained that the dead body should be treated with the utmost honour and respect."" (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 201) Thus we see the exact reference is to the body of the deceased and how the spirit of the deceased sees its remains. But it is also directly germaine to the discussion we've been having. What if in life the Spirit sees its body as the wrong gender, what tragedy plays within because of that incongruity?
It is bound to create tests and difficulties for the individual, and those tests and difficulties must be seen in the eyes of the institutions of the faith as REAL and potentially destructive to those who suffer that particular pain. There is guidance about the cases of transsexuality that distinguish themselves from homosexuality, and I believe we should consider the two as different from one another. 1222. Homosexuality and Trans-sexuality "A number of sexual problems, such as homosexuality and trans-sexuality can well have medical aspects, and in such cases recourse should certainly be had to the best medical assistance. But it is clear from the teaching of Bahá'u'lláh that homosexuality is not a condition to which a person should be reconciled, but is a distortion of his or her nature which should be controlled and overcome. This may require a hard struggle, but so
also can be the struggle of a heterosexual person to control his or her desires. The exercise of self-control in this, as in so very many other aspects of life, has a beneficial effect on the progress of the soul. It should, moreover, be borne in mind that although to be, married is highly desirable, and Bahá'u'lláh has strongly recommended it, it is not the central purpose of life. If a person has to wait a considerable period before finding a spouse, or if ultimately, he or she must remain single, it does not mean that he or she is thereby unable to fulfil his or her life's purpose." (From a letter of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer, January 12, 1973; cited in Messages from The Universal House of Justice, 1968-1973, pp. 110-111) (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 364) Regards, Scott
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. As human beings, we are endowed with freedom of choice, and we cannot shuffle off our responsibility upon the shoulders of God or nature. We must shoulder it ourselves. It is our responsibility. Arnold J. Toynbee __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe
Re: You never really know: transsexual or gay?
Richard brought these words of the Bab to our attention: "AS this physical frame is the throne of the inner temple, whatever occurs to the former is felt by the latter. In reality that which takes delight in joy or is saddened by pain is the inner temple of the body, not the body itself. (The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 94)" That same citation is followed immediately by this: "The inner temple beholdeth its physical frame, which is its throne. Thus, if the latter is accorded respect, it is as if the former is the recipient. The converse is likewise true. "Therefore, it hath been ordained that the dead body should be treated with the utmost honour and respect."" (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 201)
Thus we see the exact reference is to the body of the deceased and how the spirit of the deceased sees its remains. But it is also directly germaine to the discussion we've been having. What if in life the Spirit sees its body as the wrong gender, what tragedy plays within because of that incongruity? It is bound to create tests and difficulties for the individual, and those tests and difficulties must be seen in the eyes of the institutions of the faith as REAL and potentially destructive to those who suffer that particular pain. There is guidance about the cases of transsexuality that distinguish themselves from homosexuality, and I believe we should consider the two as different from one another. 1222. Homosexuality and Trans-sexuality "A number of sexual problems, such as homosexuality and trans-sexuality can
well have medical aspects, and in such cases recourse should certainly be had to the best medical assistance. But it is clear from the teaching of Bahá'u'lláh that homosexuality is not a condition to which a person should be reconciled, but is a distortion of his or her nature which should be controlled and overcome. This may require a hard struggle, but so also can be the struggle of a heterosexual person to control his or her desires. The exercise of self-control in this, as in so very many other aspects of life, has a beneficial effect on the progress of the soul. It should, moreover, be borne in mind that although to be, married is highly desirable, and Bahá'u'lláh has strongly recommended it, it is not the central purpose of life. If a person has to wait a considerable period before finding a spouse, or if ultimately, he or she must remain single, it does not mean that he or she is thereby unable to fulfil his or her life's purpose." (From a letter
of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer, January 12, 1973; cited in Messages from The Universal House of Justice, 1968-1973, pp. 110-111) (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 364) Regards, Scott
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
As human beings, we are endowed with freedom of choice, and we cannot shuffle off our responsibility upon the shoulders of God or nature. We must shoulder it ourselves. It is our responsibility. Arnold J. Toynbee
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: You never really know: transsexual or gay?
To wait for what is good is
good.
Richard.
- Original Message -
From:
Scott
Saylors
To: Baha'i Studies
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 3:07
PM
Subject: Re: You never really know:
transsexual or gay?
Richard,
I'll have to sit and cogitate awhile to answer that. Please put up with
me.
Scott"Richard H. Gravelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Perhaps you gentlemen can help me, in
the context of your discussion, understand this verse as saying what you
have written below.
AS this physical frame is the throne of
the inner temple, whatever occurs to the former is felt by the latter. In
reality that which takes delight in joy or is saddened by pain is the inner
temple of the body, not the body itself. (The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab,
p. 94)
- Original Message -
From:
Scott Saylors
To: Baha'i Studies
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 12:21
PM
Subject: Re: You never really know:
transsexual or gay?
Mind and Body are not seperate from each other in this plane of
existence, anyway.
The source of much physical suffering is prompted by the mind.
The cases of pseudo-hermaphroditism are definitely from the body, not
the mind. The events of genital ambiguity are definitely of the body, not
the mind.
As to the rest of it, it's a swirl of grey, not a pattern of black
and white. Gender dysphoria is complex, but undeniable.
Regards,
ScottHasan Elias <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
First
off, sorry but I can't imagine one person "changes" sex, it sounds
ridiculous to me. Im not a pro in this, but I think very few
heterosexual-homosexual cases have biological or genetic implications;
the majority has psycho-sociological
antecedents.
>
>So what will the Faith accept as defining gender? What medical
> experts say? Chromosomes? Body appearance? What the person
> believes > his or her gender to be? If a female
changes to a male and later > enrolls in the Faith, can he
serve on the House? If a male is > born with > ambiguous
genitalia and raised female, can he serve on the House > if he
> chooses to later identify as male? These are all
issues which have been raised before the House of Justice but they
are not yet ready to make a ruling in this regards. warmest,
Susan The information contained in this e-mail and
any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County
Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for
the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information
may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or
other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination,
distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you
have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by
email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message
and any attachments thereto. Thank
you.__You
are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Unsubscribe: send a blank email to
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe: send subscribe
bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe:
http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-stBaha'i
Studies is available through the following:Mail -
mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.eduWeb -
http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-stNews -
news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-stPublic -
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaistOld Public -
http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.netNew Public -
http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
http://hasaneliasperu.blogspot.com/
__Correo
Yahoo!Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!
Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/
__ You are subscribed to
Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a
blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send
subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe:
http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i
Studies is available t
Re: You never really know: transsexual or gay?
Gilberto, It does not surprise me at all that some of the mufti would speak sympathetically about any question which might be so central to one believer's understanding of the confusions they face in life. Baha`i's have no monopoly on compassion. Regards, ScottGilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Interestingly enough, some muftis have actually ruled sympatheticallyon this issue.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3657727.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4115535.stmOn 10/30/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> > >So what will the Faith accept as defining gender? What medical> > experts say? Chromosomes? Body appearance? What
the person> > believes> > his or her gender to be? If a female changes to a male and later> > enrolls in the Faith, can he serve on the House? If a male is> > born with> > ambiguous genitalia and raised female, can he serve on the House> > if he> > chooses to later identify as male?>> These are all issues which have been raised before the House of> Justice but they are not yet ready to make a ruling in this regards.>> warmest, Susan> The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you
are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.>>> __>>> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st> Baha'i Studies is available through the following:> Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu> Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st> News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st> Public -
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist> Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net> New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu>-- "There are no poets"__You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-stBaha'i Studies is available through the following:Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.eduWeb - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-stNews - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-stPublic - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaistOld Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.netNew Public -
http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
As human beings, we are endowed with freedom of choice, and we cannot shuffle off our responsibility upon the shoulders of God or nature. We must shoulder it ourselves. It is our responsibility. Arnold J. Toynbee
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: You never really know: transsexual or gay?
Richard, I'll have to sit and cogitate awhile to answer that. Please put up with me. Scott"Richard H. Gravelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Perhaps you gentlemen can help me, in the context of your discussion, understand this verse as saying what you have written below. AS this physical frame is the throne of the inner temple, whatever occurs to the former is felt by the latter. In reality that which takes delight in joy or is saddened by pain is the inner temple of the body, not the body itself. (The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 94) - Original Message - From: Scott Saylors To: Baha'i Studies Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 12:21 PM Subject: Re: You never
really know: transsexual or gay?Mind and Body are not seperate from each other in this plane of existence, anyway. The source of much physical suffering is prompted by the mind. The cases of pseudo-hermaphroditism are definitely from the body, not the mind. The events of genital ambiguity are definitely of the body, not the mind. As to the rest of it, it's a swirl of grey, not a pattern of black and white. Gender dysphoria is complex, but undeniable. Regards, ScottHasan Elias <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:First off, sorry but I can't imagine
one person "changes" sex, it sounds ridiculous to me. Im not a pro in this, but I think very few heterosexual-homosexual cases have biological or genetic implications; the majority has psycho-sociological antecedents. > >So what will the Faith accept as defining gender? What medical > experts say? Chromosomes? Body appearance? What the person > believes > his or her gender to be? If a female changes to a male and later > enrolls in the Faith, can he serve on the House? If a male is > born with > ambiguous genitalia and raised female, can he serve on the House > if he > chooses to later identify as male? These are all issues which have been raised before the House of Justice but they are not
yet ready to make a ruling in this regards. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.__You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Unsubscribe: send a blank email to
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-stBaha'i Studies is available through the following:Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.eduWeb - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-stNews - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-stPublic - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaistOld Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.netNew Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu http://hasaneliasperu.blogspot.com/ __Correo Yahoo!Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/ __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public -
http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.eduAs human beings, we are endowed with freedom of choice, and we cannot shuffle off our responsibility upon the shoulders of God or nature. We must shoulder it ourselves. It is our responsibility. Arnold J. Toynbee __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail -
mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list
Re: You never really know: transsexual or gay?
Interestingly enough, some muftis have actually ruled sympathetically
on this issue.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3657727.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4115535.stm
On 10/30/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >So what will the Faith accept as defining gender? What medical
> experts say? Chromosomes? Body appearance? What the person
> believes
> his or her gender to be? If a female changes to a male and later
> enrolls in the Faith, can he serve on the House? If a male is
> born with
> ambiguous genitalia and raised female, can he serve on the House
> if he
> chooses to later identify as male?
These are all issues which have been raised before the House of
Justice but they are not yet ready to make a ruling in this regards.
warmest, Susan
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent
by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and
for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by
federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message
is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please
immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message
and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
--
"There are no poets"
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: You never really know: transsexual or gay?
Perhaps you gentlemen can help me, in the
context of your discussion, understand this verse as saying what you have
written below.
AS this physical frame is the throne of the
inner temple, whatever occurs to the former is felt by the latter. In reality
that which takes delight in joy or is saddened by pain is the inner temple of
the body, not the body itself. (The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p.
94)
- Original Message -
From:
Scott
Saylors
To: Baha'i Studies
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 12:21
PM
Subject: Re: You never really know:
transsexual or gay?
Mind and Body are not seperate from each other in this plane of
existence, anyway.
The source of much physical suffering is prompted by the mind.
The cases of pseudo-hermaphroditism are definitely from the body, not the
mind. The events of genital ambiguity are definitely of the body, not the
mind.
As to the rest of it, it's a swirl of grey, not a pattern of black and
white. Gender dysphoria is complex, but undeniable.
Regards,
ScottHasan Elias <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
First
off, sorry but I can't imagine one person "changes" sex, it sounds
ridiculous to me. Im not a pro in this, but I think very few
heterosexual-homosexual cases have biological or genetic implications; the
majority has psycho-sociological
antecedents.
>
>So what will the Faith accept as defining gender? What medical
> experts say? Chromosomes? Body appearance? What the person
> believes > his or her gender to be? If a female changes to
a male and later > enrolls in the Faith, can he serve on the House?
If a male is > born with > ambiguous genitalia and raised
female, can he serve on the House > if he > chooses to later
identify as male? These are all issues which have been raised
before the House of Justice but they are not yet ready to make a
ruling in this regards. warmest, Susan The
information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto
("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is
intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or
entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state
privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this
message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention,
dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately
notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this
e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank
you.__You
are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Unsubscribe: send a blank email to
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe: send subscribe
bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe:
http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-stBaha'i
Studies is available through the following:Mail -
mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.eduWeb -
http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-stNews -
news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-stPublic -
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaistOld Public -
http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.netNew Public -
http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
http://hasaneliasperu.blogspot.com/
__Correo
Yahoo!Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!
Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/
__ You are subscribed to
Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank
email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe
bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe:
http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i
Studies is available through the following: Mail -
mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web -
http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News -
news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public -
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public -
http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public -
http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
As human beings,
we are endowed with freedom of choice, and we cannot shuffle off our
responsibility upon the shoulders of God or nature. We must shoulder it
ourselves. It is our responsibility. Arnold
J. Toynbee
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Su
Re: You never really know: transsexual or gay?
Mind and Body are not seperate from each other in this plane of existence, anyway. The source of much physical suffering is prompted by the mind. The cases of pseudo-hermaphroditism are definitely from the body, not the mind. The events of genital ambiguity are definitely of the body, not the mind. As to the rest of it, it's a swirl of grey, not a pattern of black and white. Gender dysphoria is complex, but undeniable. Regards, ScottHasan Elias <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:First off, sorry but I can't imagine one person "changes" sex, it sounds ridiculous to me. Im
not a pro in this, but I think very few heterosexual-homosexual cases have biological or genetic implications; the majority has psycho-sociological antecedents. > >So what will the Faith accept as defining gender? What medical > experts say? Chromosomes? Body appearance? What the person > believes > his or her gender to be? If a female changes to a male and later > enrolls in the Faith, can he serve on the House? If a male is > born with > ambiguous genitalia and raised female, can he serve on the House > if he > chooses to later identify as male? These are all issues which have been raised before the House of Justice but they are not yet ready to make a ruling in this regards. warmest,
Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.__You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in
the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-stBaha'i Studies is available through the following:Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.eduWeb - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-stNews - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-stPublic - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaistOld Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.netNew Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu http://hasaneliasperu.blogspot.com/
__Correo Yahoo!Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/ __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
As human beings, we are endowed with freedom of choice, and we cannot shuffle off our responsibility upon the shoulders of God or nature. We must shoulder it ourselves. It is our responsibility. Arnold J. Toynbee
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: You never really know: transsexual or gay?
First off, sorry but I can't imagine one person "changes" sex, it sounds ridiculous to me. Im not a pro in this, but I think very few heterosexual-homosexual cases have biological or genetic implications; the majority has psycho-sociological antecedents. > >So what will the Faith accept as defining gender? What medical > experts say? Chromosomes? Body appearance? What the person > believes > his or her gender to be? If a female changes to a male and later > enrolls in the Faith, can he serve on the House? If a male is > born with > ambiguous genitalia and raised female, can he serve on
the House > if he > chooses to later identify as male? These are all issues which have been raised before the House of Justice but they are not yet ready to make a ruling in this regards. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank
you.__You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-stBaha'i Studies is available through the following:Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.eduWeb - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-stNews - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-stPublic - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaistOld Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.netNew Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu http://hasaneliasperu.blogspot.com/ __Correo Yahoo!Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: You never really know: transsexual or gay?
> >So what will the Faith accept as defining gender? What medical
> experts say? Chromosomes? Body appearance? What the person
> believes
> his or her gender to be? If a female changes to a male and later
> enrolls in the Faith, can he serve on the House? If a male is
> born with
> ambiguous genitalia and raised female, can he serve on the House
> if he
> chooses to later identify as male?
These are all issues which have been raised before the House of
Justice but they are not yet ready to make a ruling in this regards.
warmest, Susan
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail")
is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The
information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts
or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail
in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and
permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
