Re: Grounds for divorce
Ok, I am working from memory here, but grounds for divorce (from memory) are adultery, desertion, irreconcilable differences, antipathy, resentment, aversion. Antipathy, aversion, and resentment are very, very strong emotions, but hatred goes beyond them all. For instance, nobody should hate anyone, but there are sure people you can't stand to be around. An irreconcilable difference, for example, can be wanting to live in different countries or in opposite ends of a country. Loni Bramson __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Grounds for divorce
So that we don't continue to propagate from memory paraphrases, here are a few relevant quotes. I only see resentment and antipathy in irreconcilable form presented as grounds, and even then, they're not considered grounds as such. We should be very careful with tossing around other sins as grounds, since the approach of the Faith seems to different than society, where divorce is considered almost a penalty for certain crimes. Anyway, the quotes: Should resentment or antipathy arise between husband and wife, he is not to divorce her but to bide in patience throughout the course of one whole year, that perchance the fragrance of affection may be renewed between them. If, upon the completion of this period, their love hath not returned, it is permissible for divorce to take place. Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 43) Concerning the definition of the term 'aversion' in relation to Bahá'í divorce law, the Universal House of Justice points out that there are no specific 'grounds' for Bahá'í divorce such as there are in some codes of civil law. Bahá'í Law permits divorce but, as both Bahá'u'lláh and 'Abdu'l-Bahá have made very clear, divorce is abhorred. Thus, from the point of view of the individual believer he should do all he can to refrain from divorce. Bahá'ís should be profoundly aware of the sanctity of marriage and should strive to make their marriages an eternal bond of unity and harmony. This requires effort and sacrifice and wisdom and self-abnegation. A Bahá'í should consider the possibility of divorce only if the situation is intolerable and he or she has a strong aversion to being married to the other partner. This is the standard held up to the individual. It is not a law, but an exhortation. It is a goal to which we should strive. From a letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer, November 3, 1982 Regarding divorce the Guardian stated that it is discouraged, deprecated and against the good pleasure of God. The Assembly must circulate among the friends whatever has been revealed from the Pen of 'Abdu'l-Bahá in this connection so that all may be fully reminded. Divorce is conditional upon the approval and permission of the Spiritual Assembly. The members of the Assembly must in such matters independently and carefully study and investigate each case. If there should be valid grounds for divorce and it is found that reconciliation it utterly impossible, that antipathy is intense and its removal is not possible, then the Assembly may approve the divorce. From the Guardian to the National Spiritual Assembly of Iran, July 7, 1938 [Translated from Persian] As to divorce, while it is permitted by Bahá'u'lláh, it is heavily discouraged and the greatest efforts must be made to avoid it. In Bahá'í society the only grounds for divorce are an irreconcilable antipathy between the parties. From a letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer, October 27, 1986 Loni Bramson wrote: Ok, I am working from memory here, but grounds for divorce (from memory) are adultery, desertion, irreconcilable differences, antipathy, resentment, aversion. Antipathy, aversion, and resentment are very, very strong emotions, but hatred goes beyond them all. For instance, nobody should hate anyone, but there are sure people you can't stand to be around. An irreconcilable difference, for example, can be wanting to live in different countries or in opposite ends of a country. Loni Bramson -- - Christian E. Gruber [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Grounds for divorce
In the Baha'i Writings we are told not to hate others. In the Faith the only grounds for divorce is antipathy towards the other. If one should not feel antipathy towards another, however, why should antipathy be valid grounds for divorce? I'm getting the impression that there may be two senses that hate may be used in the Writings. There is a passage where Baha'u'llah refers to those I (Baha'u'llah) hate. I just get the impression that in some sense it's fine to feel antipathy towards another and in another sense it's not. I think in ESW Baha'u'llah says He doesn't feel any hate towards the Son of the Wolf, despite him being a bad person. David _ Check out news, entertainment and more @ http://xtra.co.nz/broadband __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Grounds for divorce
Dear David, In my recent studies of the Writings, I have come to find a lot of paradoxessituations where two apparently conflicting statements are madesuch as "the most manifest of the manifest and the most hidden of the hidden", the two being opposites. I can cite numerous others too, such as the fact that "tests are a healing medicine" and at the same time, we are told to pray for "protection" from test. Why would one pray for "protection" from a "healing medicine?" The Hidden Words tell us that the true lover "yearneth" for tests. What I have come to recognize isthat every human being is part of a continuum of spiritual development. There is no such thing as diametric absolutessuch as"saved" versus "damned." I am begining to contend that even the labels of "Baha'i" and "non-Baha'i" may be misnomers. The terms may be useful for describing a registered member of the Faith and a non-member, but being a "Baha'i," in itself, is not the be-all, end-all for spiritual development. Every Baha'i is at a differing part of the spiritual continuum. Baha'u'llah has provided for that. Certainly apathy/hatred should not exist ideally, but He realizes that it will, and He makes provisions for it. In actuality, He "condemns" divorce itself, but allows it. We have also been told that it is better to be killed than to kill, yet how many Baha'is would do that? I am certain that there are some on the continuum that would prefer to give their lives rather than kill, but how many Baha'is can live up to that standard? Baha'u'llah has provided for all. With something like "the most manifest of the manifest and the most hidden of the hidden," it is easy to understand: We know that God has made Himself manifest in the physical and spiritual worlds, but His essence is invisible and "hidden." With tests, I know personally how valuable they are in drawing us to God. I haveseen their "healing" properties and feelthat "protection," in this sense, means protection from the adverse potential of tests, not the tests themselves. We have been given the ideal standards, but He knows thatnot everyonecan achieve all those ideals in this world. Hope this contributes to the discussion. James __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Grounds for divorce
In a message dated 9/22/04 4:18:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If one should not feel antipathy towards another, however, why should antipathy be valid grounds for divorce? Dear David, Clearly, you have never been married. ;-} But the word here is 'aversion' as I recall. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Grounds for divorce [Paradox]
I congratulate warmly brother James Mock in writing about paradox. Faith and our Writings abound in paradox Immanence and Transcendence are paradoxes Alpha and Omega are in a sense paradoxes! http://www.xasa.com/wiki/en/wikipedia/g/go/god_1.html MATTHEW 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. MATTHEW 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. I CORINTHIANS 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. PHILIPPIANS 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Also http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=76 Does the Bible Contain Paradox? W. Gary Crampton Paradoxes of the Biblical Concept The paradoxes or dialectical tensions characteristic of the Western understanding of God are derived from the Bible. In the Old Testament, God transcends all the limited and special forces and powers of the human experience. On the other hand, his central characteristic, or mode of self manifestation, is his concern for and relation to history. Although he manifests his power in nature, the main arena for divine activity is the sequence of historical events related to the calling, the establishment, and the protection of his chosen people. In this activity, moreover, God reveals himself as moral or righteous, the source of the moral law, and is quick to punish those, even his chosen ones, who defy this law. He is, however, also a God of mercy, patience, faithfulness, and Grace. This God of history, Covenant, judgment, and promised redemption is assumed to be, and often clearly affirmed to be, the ruler of all events. These aspects of the notion of God reappear, with some modification, in the New Testament. There the one God is also concerned with history, judgment, and redemption, but his central manifestation is Jesus Christ, through whom God's will for mankind is revealed, his judgments are made known, and his power to save is effected. The New Testament writers generally use the word God to designate the God of the Old Testament. Christ is understood as the fulfillment of the Messianic promise and as the Son, or Logos. His relation to God the Father and the Holy Spirit led to the development of the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. Both Jewish and Christian theology therefore display a dialectical tension between God's transcendence over nature and history as creator and ruler, and his personal, moral participation in history for the sake of humankind. Paradox in the Writings What BEFELL OUR CREATOR in 'Akka O ye beloved of God! Repose not yourselves on your couches, nay bestir yourselves as soon as ye recognize your Lord, the Creator, and hear of the things which have befallen Him, and hasten to His assistance.** ** Unloose your tongues, and proclaim unceasingly His Cause. This shall be better for you than all the treasures of the past and of the future, if ye be of them that comprehend this truth. (Baha'u'llah: Gleanings, Page: 330) Canst Thou see any who have championed Thy Self, or who ponder on what hath befallen Him in the pathway of Thy love? Now doth My pen halt, O Beloved of the worlds. (Baha'u'llah: Baha'i Prayers (US), Page: 218) Should any one incline his inner ear, he would hear the cry and the wailing of all created things over what hath befallen Him Whom the world hath wronged, at the hands of them with whom Thou hast covenanted in the Day of Separation. Where is that fair-minded soul, O my God, who will judge equitably Thy Cause, and where is the man of insight to be found who will behold Thee with Thine own eyes? Is there any man of hearing who will hear Thee with Thine ears, or one endued with eloquence who will speak the truth in Thy days? (Baha'u'llah: Prayers and Meditations, Page: 285) The US's relations with the world are also paradoxical ** Paradoxical as it may seem, her only hope of extricating herself from the perils gathering around her is to become entangled in that very web of international association which the Hand of an inscrutable Providence is weaving. (Shoghi Effendi: The Advent of Divine Justice, Pages: 87-88)** From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Mock Sent: 22 September 2004 16:08 To: Baha'i Studies Subject: Re: Grounds for divorce Dear David, In my recent studies of the Writings, I have come to find a lot of paradoxessituations where two apparently conflicting statements are madesuch as the most manifest of the manifest and the most hidden of the hidden, the two being opposites. I can cite numerous others too, such as the fact that tests are a healing medicine and at the same time, we are told to pray for protection from test. Why would one pray for protection from a healing medicine
RE: Grounds for divorce
I think the most common term used is irreconcilable antipathy. That is the litmus test used in New Zealand. However aversion is used in Bahai literature frequently as well. Steve Cooney. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 23 September 2004 5:41 a.m. To: Baha'i Studies Subject: Re: Grounds for divorce In a message dated 9/22/04 4:18:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If one should not feel antipathy towards another, however, why should antipathy be valid grounds for divorce? Dear David, Clearly, you have never been married. ;-} But the word here is 'aversion' as I recall. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Grounds for divorce
Title: Re: Grounds for divorce From: James Mock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Baha'i Studies [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:08:05 -0500 To: Baha'i Studies [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Grounds for divorce Every Baha'i is at a differing part of the spiritual continuum. Baha'u'llah has provided for that. Certainly apathy/hatred should not exist ideally, but He realizes that it will, and He makes provisions for it. In actuality, He condemns divorce itself, but allows it. Dear James, I really appreciate your response. It leaves me with a great deal to mull over but also a richer appreciation of the wisdom and love that is an inherent part of Baha'u'llah's revelation. Thanks, Jeanne __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
