Re: Martyrdom of the Bab
In a message dated 5/12/2004 6:41:26 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Another question springs to mind on this topic: why did the miracle have to happen in the first place? If miracles are no proof of Prophethood, what was the point of it all? Couldn't God have just made sure that the Bab got all out He wanted to say the first time and not had the Bab miraculously disappear? Evidently God wanted it to happen the way it did, but if miracles don't count as proof I'm not sure why He wanted it to happen that way. Abdu'l Baha says miracles "count" as proof to those who see them. That is their limitation. Those who have other reasons to believe without seeing will take the miracle as further proof for their belief but it won't count to those who do not already believe. Remember, if you will, that Thomas was not chastised for asking to see the marks in Jesus' hands and side, but Jesus did say that those who accepted without seeing were particularly blessed; I think that applies here as well. Regards, Scott __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Martyrdom of the Bab
In a message dated 5/12/2004 7:41:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Another question springs to mind on this topic: why did the miracle have to happen in the first place? If miracles are no proof of Prophethood, what was the point of it all? Dear David, We don't even know for sure it was a miracle. Remember, the regiment in question had no wish to kill the Bab. As a historian I don't really ask whether or not a miracle occurred. I tend to ask 'why is this story being told?' In the case of the Dawnbreakers the function of the story is to illustrate that the Manifestation was finally the Master of His own fate and that any sacrifice He made was done voluntarily. Keep in mind that most Muslims believe that God would never allow a prophet to be killed. That's one of the reasons they deny the crucifixtion. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Martyrdom of the Bab
suppose He just walked or ran back while the smoke was in the air. How long would it have taken Him to get back, and could He have done so in time if I'm not certain exactly how far apart the two doors were. But, from this description in The Dawn-Breakers, which places the nail in the wall from which they were suspended adjacent to the room, it appears to be a short walk. Nabil visited the location himself and gives the following description. Patti Siyyid Husayn had remained confined in the same room in which he had spent the previous night with the Báb . . . Sam Khan ordered his men to drive a nail into the pillar that lay between the door of the room that Siyyid Husayn occupied and the entrance to the adjoining one, and to make fast two ropes to that nail, from which the Báb and His companion were to be separately suspended. (Shoghi Effendi, The Dawn-Breakers, p. 510) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Martyrdom of the Bab
"We don't even know for sure it was a miracle. Remember, the regiment in question had no wish to kill the Bab." Susan, Yes, it's true that the leader of the regiment did not wish to kill the Bab; however, I doubt that he could have ordered his 750 soldiers to shoot for the ropes and for all of them to actually miss the Bab and Mirza Muhammad Ali, while still hitting the rope. That would probably constitue a miracle in and of itself, let alone the miracle of 750 men keeping such an order secret. Patti __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Martyrdom of the Bab
In a message dated 5/11/2004 8:52:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I never have considered teleportation to be an issue. The simple shock of facing death, hearing the crash of the muskets and suddenly dropping to the ground as the rope was cut would have been incapacitating for anyone. That the Bab was able to keep his composure, walk calmly to his cell to finsih His covernsation is indicative enough of the miraculous nature of the event. It might be interesting to consider the Muslim take on this incident. They said that if only the Bab had been able to keep his composure He could have stood before the crowd and proclaimed Himself the Mahdi and no one would have denied Him. But in His confusion He ended up running back to the barracks where He had been imprisoned and hid there until they dragged him back out. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
