Re: Holy Grail

[Loïc ROYER]

Native from Britanny, in a very catholic family, I have been told about 
these legends since I was 3!

These stories are mixing celtic paganism with roman christianity:
- "Merlin the enchanter" is a wizard of the old celtic religion, living in 
forests, legendary being stripped of its knowledge and its capacities by the 
Viviane fairy.
- Viviane is a paganist fairy, later supposed to have given the mission of 
taking care of the Holy Grail to the knights of the round table.
- the Holy Grail is originaly a paganist magic symbol (the cauldron of 
Dagda, most important god of the celtic mythology), later supposed to 
contain the blood of the Christ.


It appears clearly that Christianity at this time (+-12th century) has added 
a christian explaination and sense to all the paganist legends and believes!
the same method was applied in Asia (in India, Jesus is a divinity just like 
Shiva, Buddha or Ganesh), in Africa (in Madagascar, death people, 
christianily buried, are still unearther 1 year after, for them to go in 
peace to the other world) and in Europe (in most of european countries, 
Christian priests still bless the fields and the cattles).


Anyway, even if these stories are very beautiful, there is nothing hitoric 
about the Holy Grail...
how could it be possible to take some blood of the Christ on the cross, and 
to keep this cup safe during all these centuries?...
politicaly, even if this legend has been used to developp the Roman 
Christianity during the XIIth, the same has fighted and burned people 
believing in it during the XIIIth (the Cathares faith has been dismantled, 
all juged for heresy).
So I believe that if there is any link between the Grail and Gabriel, it's 
only one more attempt to link the original Celtic religion to the Christian 
believes!


Loïc



- Original Message - 
From: "Gilberto Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Baha'i Studies" 
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: Holy Grail


I'm not sure about the chronology of Christianity's spread to England
(And I doubt if scholars have a clear consensus about the origins and
historicity of the Arthur legends) but in the Mists of Avalon the
portrayal is actually kind of interesting. Arthur's reign is seen as a
turning point between Paganism and Christianity. Merlin and Morgana le
Fey are representatives of the Old religion as England is slowly taken
over by Christianity. (Although Goddess worship is secretly continued
as Marian devotion)



On 1/2/07, Brill de Ramirez, Susan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This is an especially interesting direction for discussion.  We know that 
there have been many Manifestations of God throughout human existence 
propelling cultures and civilizations forward.  Those of written religious 
history, we know more about than those of oral cultures.


Judaism has the distinction of being one of the few tribal faiths that 
arose with a written culture with the Book rather than the Word of God 
having been transmitted orally (here, we might also include some Chinese 
traditions, perhaps the Egyptians, the Mayans, perhaps others). . . 
although, of course, there is also an active oral sacred tradition in 
Judaism . . . most notably retained in the Passover seder rituals and 
storytelling.


Anyway, the Grail. . . .

Lately, I've been thinking about Merlin and Arthur.  I've been pondering 
whether, in fact, Merlin might have been a Prophet/Manifestation of God 
for the Celtic peoples of England with the Message of unification of the 
various peoples of Great Britain with Arthur as his unifying instrument. 
All that we have, of course, are stories, variously embellished and 
fictionalized.  In those stories, might the Grail be the holy Sign that 
fuses both ancient Celtic tribal traditions with the arrival of 
Christianity?  The Holy Grail being the tangible Sign of the Message of 
Christianity as it was brought from its Middle Eastern origins all the way 
to England. . . .


So much for early Gregorian year musings,

Regards to all,

Susan



The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto 
("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is 
intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or 
entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state 
privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this 
message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, 
dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly 
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately 
notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this 
e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.







The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent 
by the Johnson County Community College (&q

Re: RE: Holy Grail

[smaneck]

> In those stories, might the Grail be the holy Sign that fuses both 
> ancient Celtic tribal traditions with the arrival of Christianity? 

Dear Susan B., 

That certainly seems to be the function of those sotries. 

warmest, Susan 


 
 
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") 
is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be 
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The 
information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts 
or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended 
recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or 
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail 
in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and 
permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
 
 
__
 

You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu

Re: Holy Grail

[Gilberto Simpson]

I'm not sure about the chronology of Christianity's spread to England
(And I doubt if scholars have a clear consensus about the origins and
historicity of the Arthur legends) but in the Mists of Avalon the
portrayal is actually kind of interesting. Arthur's reign is seen as a
turning point between Paganism and Christianity. Merlin and Morgana le
Fey are representatives of the Old religion as England is slowly taken
over by Christianity. (Although Goddess worship is secretly continued
as Marian devotion)



On 1/2/07, Brill de Ramirez, Susan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

This is an especially interesting direction for discussion.  We know that there 
have been many Manifestations of God throughout human existence propelling 
cultures and civilizations forward.  Those of written religious history, we 
know more about than those of oral cultures.

Judaism has the distinction of being one of the few tribal faiths that arose 
with a written culture with the Book rather than the Word of God having been 
transmitted orally (here, we might also include some Chinese traditions, 
perhaps the Egyptians, the Mayans, perhaps others). . . although, of course, 
there is also an active oral sacred tradition in Judaism . . . most notably 
retained in the Passover seder rituals and storytelling.

Anyway, the Grail. . . .

Lately, I've been thinking about Merlin and Arthur.  I've been pondering 
whether, in fact, Merlin might have been a Prophet/Manifestation of God for the 
Celtic peoples of England with the Message of unification of the various 
peoples of Great Britain with Arthur as his unifying instrument.  All that we 
have, of course, are stories, variously embellished and fictionalized.  In 
those stories, might the Grail be the holy Sign that fuses both ancient Celtic 
tribal traditions with the arrival of Christianity?  The Holy Grail being the 
tangible Sign of the Message of Christianity as it was brought from its Middle 
Eastern origins all the way to England. . . .

So much for early Gregorian year musings,

Regards to all,

Susan



The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent 
by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and 
for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by 
federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message 
is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or 
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please 
immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message 
and any attachments thereto. Thank you.


__



Dr. Susan Berry Brill de Ramírez, Professor of English
Department of English, Bradley University
1501 W. Bradley Avenue, Peoria, IL 61625  U.S.A.
(309) 677-3888; fax (309) 677-4560; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu





--
"There are no poets"

__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu

Re: Holy Grail

[SKYGRAM]

Susan,

Recently I watched a film entitled, "King Arthur" and it seemed to
interpret Merlin in much the same way that you see him. He comes
across as a seer-holy man.

This film had a dash of pre and post Vulgate material but a large dose
of what little is known of the historical period that Arthur
ostensibly lived. Guinevere is shown tattooed and fighting alongside
of the men. Keira Knightly plays the role of Guinevere and normally I
would have laughed at the suggestion. However she does a creditable
job.

My first impression of this film was that it wasn't very good, but I
simply didn't understand what the filmmaker was attempting to do  and
that was to put the story of Arthur into a reasonable historical
perspective. In other words, no hocus pocus.

I like hocus pocus. So I missed that.

However it is a good film in that it twists your viewpoint somewhat
from the Mallory-Mary Stewart myth making and possibly comes closer to
the truth as far as anyone is able.

Bill




The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent 
by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and 
for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by 
federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message 
is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or 
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please 
immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message 
and any attachments thereto. Thank you.


__


You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu

RE: Holy Grail

[Brill de Ramirez, Susan]

This is an especially interesting direction for discussion.  We know that there 
have been many Manifestations of God throughout human existence propelling 
cultures and civilizations forward.  Those of written religious history, we 
know more about than those of oral cultures.
 
Judaism has the distinction of being one of the few tribal faiths that arose 
with a written culture with the Book rather than the Word of God having been 
transmitted orally (here, we might also include some Chinese traditions, 
perhaps the Egyptians, the Mayans, perhaps others). . . although, of course, 
there is also an active oral sacred tradition in Judaism . . . most notably 
retained in the Passover seder rituals and storytelling.
 
Anyway, the Grail. . . .
 
Lately, I've been thinking about Merlin and Arthur.  I've been pondering 
whether, in fact, Merlin might have been a Prophet/Manifestation of God for the 
Celtic peoples of England with the Message of unification of the various 
peoples of Great Britain with Arthur as his unifying instrument.  All that we 
have, of course, are stories, variously embellished and fictionalized.  In 
those stories, might the Grail be the holy Sign that fuses both ancient Celtic 
tribal traditions with the arrival of Christianity?  The Holy Grail being the 
tangible Sign of the Message of Christianity as it was brought from its Middle 
Eastern origins all the way to England. . . . 
 
So much for early Gregorian year musings,
 
Regards to all,
 
Susan

 
 
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") 
is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be 
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The 
information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts 
or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended 
recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or 
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail 
in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and 
permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
 
 
__
 

 
Dr. Susan Berry Brill de Ramírez, Professor of English
Department of English, Bradley University
1501 W. Bradley Avenue, Peoria, IL 61625  U.S.A.
(309) 677-3888; fax (309) 677-4560; [EMAIL PROTECTED]  

 

__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
<>

Re: Holy Grail

[Gilberto Simpson]

This isn't exactly what you asked and I'm not sure how you feel about
the source, but a couple of months back Juan Cole's blog had some
interesting comments connecting the Da Vinci Code to Islam.

http://www.juancole.com/2006/05/davinci-code-as-parable-of-american.html

So similarly to how in the Da Vinci code, the grail corresponded to
Mary Magdalene, feminine spirituality and the beginning of a sacred
bloodline, in Islam (especially in the Shiite variety)  Fatima (ra)
has a similar role.


On 1/1/07, Badí' Villar Cárdenas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Often I have wondered if the mystery of the Holy Grail is related to the
archangel Gabriel, the messenger of the death, of the big news (in the
Bible) and the developer of the Qur'án.

Badí'

--
"We must distinguish between the various layers, or strata, to use an
archaeological term, of early Christianity. The theology, the doctrines and
the practices of Jesus, John the Baptist and Paul ... are not the same."

Yigael Yadin
'The Temple Scroll— the Longest Dead Sea Scroll'
Biblical Archaeology Review (Sept/Oct 1984).


The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto
("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is
intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity
named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy
and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is
not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination,
distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply
and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any
attachments thereto. Thank you.






The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent 
by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and 
for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by 
federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message 
is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or 
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please 
immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message 
and any attachments thereto. Thank you.


__




You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send
subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe:
http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail -
mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web -
http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News -
news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public -
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public -
http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New
Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu



--
"There are no poets"

__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu

Re: Holy Grail

[smaneck]

Dear Badi, 

I know what the Holy Grail is, I just don't see that there is any 
mystery behind it. People just made up a lot of fanciful tales about 
it. I don't see this has any connection to the Archangel Gabriel at 
all. I think you are being misled by the fact that the two words sound 
similiar in English. 

warmest, Susan 


 
 
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") 
is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be 
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The 
information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts 
or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended 
recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or 
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail 
in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and 
permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
 
 
__
 

You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu

Re: Holy Grail

[Badí' Villar Cárdenas]

>
> *What mystery of the Holy Grail?*



Dear Dr.Maneck,

I talk about the legend of the Grail. My interpretation of the Grail is that
this one is an allusion to the archangel Gabriel as the developer of the
Koran.

Badí'


 
 
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") 
is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be 
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The 
information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts 
or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended 
recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or 
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail 
in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and 
permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
 
 
__
 

You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu

Re: Holy Grail

[Badí' Villar Cárdenas]

>
> *What mystery of the Holy Grail?*



*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Grail*


 
 
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") 
is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be 
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The 
information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts 
or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended 
recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or 
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail 
in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and 
permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
 
 
__
 

You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu

Re: Holy Grail

[smaneck]

> Often I have wondered if the mystery of the Holy *Grail *is 
> related to the
> archangel *Gabriel*, the messenger of the death, of the big news 
> (in the
> Bible) and the developer of the Qur'án.

Dear Badi, 

What mystery of the Holy Grail? 

warmest, Susan 


 
 
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") 
is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be 
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The 
information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts 
or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended 
recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or 
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail 
in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and 
permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
 
 
__
 

You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu