Re: existence of God
> LOL. I have dogs and cats too. It seems they dream. But the Master
> says something like "without seeing you see", but the dogs and
> cats with eyes closed also "see" in dreams no?
Probably. At least my dog seems to be chasing a rabbit. It would seem
that even with animals the imagination is more powerful than earthly
limitations.
warmest, Susan
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Re: existence of God
LOL. I have dogs and cats too. It seems they dream. But the Master says
something like "without seeing you see", but the dogs and cats with eyes closed
also "see" in dreams no?
Prema <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: Dear friends
I recently read a quote which describes what Susan just said, it was:
"The mind and the thought of man sometimes discover truths, and from this
thought and discovery signs and results are produced. This thought has a
foundation. But many things come to the mind of man which are like the waves of
the sea of imaginations; they have no fruit, and no result comes from them. In
the same way, man sees in the world of sleep a vision which becomes exactly
realized; at another time, he sees a dream which has absolutely no result.
What we mean is that this state, which we call the converse and communications
of spirits, is of two kinds: one is simply imaginary, and the other is like the
visions which are mentioned in the Holy Book, such as the revelations of St.
John and Isaiah and the meeting of Christ with Moses and Elias. These are real,
and produce wonderful effects in the minds and thoughts of men, and cause their
hearts to be attracted."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 252)
The difference I believe is that animals don't have an immortal rational soul
to recognize the divine secrets and heavenly realities. Thus their dreams
probably don't give them the chance to discern such things, while our dreams
do.
Loic, I couldn't resist commenting on the fact that you've owned your cat for
many years - I've only had my kitten for a year now and have had doubts as to
whether I actually own her (it seems quite the other way round :) Gotta love
cats!
Regards
Prema
On 4/24/07, Loïc ROYER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dear friends,
owning a cat since many years now, I can tell you they have dreams (by looking
at my cat sleeping and moving head and even making little cries!)
Dreaming is a natural phenomenal used by the brain to stay quiet and clear
after
all its work when we are living.
I also believe that the "dreams" evocated as proofs of existence of God are a
very particular type of "visions", coming also during the sleep but something
totaly different than the natural dreams we don't even remember.
Loïc
Selon [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> > The dreams (as proofs) and some rational arguments we find in SAQ
> > (some of these "proofs", we find also in Thomas Aquina and
> > Aristoteles). My questions is: What happen to these arguments if
> > animals can dream too?
>
> Dear Hasan,
>
> Dogs do dream, as anyone who has every owned one knows. When Abdu'l-
> Baha refers to dreams as proof He's not talking about any dream, He is
> talking about ones that predict the future or take us to another
> dimension of reality.
>
> warmest, Susan
>
>
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Re: existence of God
Dear friends
I recently read a quote which describes what Susan just said, it was:
"The mind and the thought of man sometimes discover truths, and from this
thought and discovery signs and results are produced. This thought has a
foundation. But many things come to the mind of man which are like the waves
of the sea of imaginations; they have no fruit, and no result comes from
them. In the same way, man sees in the world of sleep a vision which becomes
exactly realized; at another time, he sees a dream which has absolutely no
result.
What we mean is that this state, which we call the converse and
communications of spirits, is of two kinds: one is simply imaginary, and the
other is like the visions which are mentioned in the Holy Book, such as the
revelations of St. John and Isaiah and the meeting of Christ with Moses and
Elias. These are real, and produce wonderful effects in the minds and
thoughts of men, and cause their hearts to be attracted."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 252)
The difference I believe is that animals don't have an immortal rational
soul to recognize the divine secrets and heavenly realities. Thus their
dreams probably don't give them the chance to discern such things, while our
dreams do.
Loic, I couldn't resist commenting on the fact that you've owned your cat
for many years - I've only had my kitten for a year now and have had doubts
as to whether I actually own her (it seems quite the other way round :)
Gotta love cats!
Regards
Prema
On 4/24/07, Loïc ROYER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Dear friends,
> owning a cat since many years now, I can tell you they have dreams (by
> looking
> at my cat sleeping and moving head and even making little cries!)
> Dreaming is a natural phenomenal used by the brain to stay quiet and clear
> after
> all its work when we are living.
> I also believe that the "dreams" evocated as proofs of existence of God
> are a
> very particular type of "visions", coming also during the sleep but
> something
> totaly different than the natural dreams we don't even remember.
>
> Loïc
>
>
>
>
> Selon [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>
> > > The dreams (as proofs) and some rational arguments we find in SAQ
> > > (some of these "proofs", we find also in Thomas Aquina and
> > > Aristoteles). My questions is: What happen to these arguments if
> > > animals can dream too?
> >
> > Dear Hasan,
> >
> > Dogs do dream, as anyone who has every owned one knows. When Abdu'l-
> > Baha refers to dreams as proof He's not talking about any dream, He is
> > talking about ones that predict the future or take us to another
> > dimension of reality.
> >
> > warmest, Susan
> >
> >
>
>
>
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Re: existence of God
Dear friends,
owning a cat since many years now, I can tell you they have dreams (by looking
at my cat sleeping and moving head and even making little cries!)
Dreaming is a natural phenomenal used by the brain to stay quiet and clear after
all its work when we are living.
I also believe that the "dreams" evocated as proofs of existence of God are a
very particular type of "visions", coming also during the sleep but something
totaly different than the natural dreams we don't even remember.
Loïc
Selon [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> > The dreams (as proofs) and some rational arguments we find in SAQ
> > (some of these "proofs", we find also in Thomas Aquina and
> > Aristoteles). My questions is: What happen to these arguments if
> > animals can dream too?
>
> Dear Hasan,
>
> Dogs do dream, as anyone who has every owned one knows. When Abdu'l-
> Baha refers to dreams as proof He's not talking about any dream, He is
> talking about ones that predict the future or take us to another
> dimension of reality.
>
> warmest, Susan
>
>
>
>
> The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto
> ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is
> intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity
> named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy
> and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is
> not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination,
> distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply
> and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any
> attachments thereto. Thank you.
>
>
>
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Re: existence of God
> The dreams (as proofs) and some rational arguments we find in SAQ
> (some of these "proofs", we find also in Thomas Aquina and
> Aristoteles). My questions is: What happen to these arguments if
> animals can dream too?
Dear Hasan,
Dogs do dream, as anyone who has every owned one knows. When Abdu'l-
Baha refers to dreams as proof He's not talking about any dream, He is
talking about ones that predict the future or take us to another
dimension of reality.
warmest, Susan
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is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be
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