Re: Against nature...
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I should explain closer and in more depth. Religions and their scriptures predict Messiahs, Christs, Paracletes, Holy Spirits, Mahdis, Manifestations, Avatars, Kalkis, Buddhas, Maitreyas, etc. The Covenant requires investigations of all claimants. The Baha'i Faith advertises it this way. Your scripture promises, insert term above here. Baha'u'llah is a claimant to be, insert term above here. You should investigate Baha'u'llah's claims because the Covenant requires you to. Also, you should interpret prophecies symbolically to give leeway for claimants. The same marketing technique can be used for all claimants and produce a yes answer to them being who they claim to be. Why should Jews study the Baha'u'llah over all Jewish Messiah claimants? Why should Christians study Baha'u'llah over all return of Jesus, Paraclete, Holy Spirit, etc. claimants? Why should Muslims study Baha'u'llah over all Mahdi claimants? Why should Bayanis study Baha'u'llah over all Manifestation claimants? Why should Hindus study Baha'u'llah over all Kalki claimants? Why should Buddhists study Baha'u'llah over all Maitreya claimants? Side Note: Can one person be several of the above if not all? Can several people if not all be the same things above? Adi Dam (Adi Da Love Ananda Samraj) Ahmadiyya Islam aka Qadianism (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad) Baha'i Faith (Baha'u'llah) Islam (Muhammad) Ismaili Islam aka Ismailism (Ali through Aga Khan IV, Shia Imams) Kalki, Mahdi, Messiah, etc. Foundation International (Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi) Mission of Maitreya, Eternal Divine Path (Joseph Emmanuel, Ahmad ibn Abdullah) Neo Gnosticism aka Universal Christian Gnostic Church (Samael Aun Weor) Raëlism (Claude Vorilhon aka Raël) Scientology (Lafayette Ronald Hubbard) What do all the above have in common? Either they themselves or followers on their behalf have claimed their Kalki status and Maitreya status. Wikipedia links to articles about what Kalki and Maitreya prophecies they fulfill and how. For example, one I inadvertently ran across was the Maitreya boatsman prophecy on the bodhisattva page of Wikipedia. I have studied Scientology since High School despite all the controversy surrounding it. I also started studying Raëlism recently and have downloaded several e books from the Web. Also, I mention the above because I only felt like listing the prophecies of Indian Dharmic religions and not Abrahamic ones. I have also seen a paper on the Baha'i Faith in India and read about debates between Ahmadis and Baha'is. Explain why only Muhammad and Baha'u'llah mentioned above are Kalki and Maitreya, while reffering only to Hindu and Buddhist texts. I for one haven't combed through the Puranas and Sutras for each and every prophecy to compare each claimant to, but have seen various pages describing how each and every claimant above fulfills them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitreya http://www.maitreya.org/ Sent from my iPad On Apr 29, 2013, at 13:13, Stephen Kent Gray wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > Hasan, any list of religions and spiritual traditions will show the almost > infinite number of Faiths, Communities, Revelations, etc. that exist and are > extant, not to mention extinct and reconstructed ones. > > Also, in the topic on post conventional morality, the topic was more on the > variety of new religious movements and their impacts on morality in society. > > Hasan, you seem to hold that religions and spiritual traditions are all > intrinsically higher than philosophies and thoughts. I have no opinion on the > matter, but am familiar with various religions like Raëlism, Scientology, Neo > Gnosticism, Adi Dam, Ahmadiyya aka Qadianism, Happy Science aka Kofuku no > Kagaku, Sahaja Yoga, Rastafarianism, etc. I'm not that interested in them, > but I know about them is the point. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_new_religious_movements > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_religious_movement > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Neopagan_movements > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism_(contemporary) > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UFO_religions > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_religion > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Buddha_claimants > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitreya > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_avatar_claimants > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalki > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Messiah_claimants > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_claimed_to_be_Jesus > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mahdi_claimants > > Sent from my iPad > > On Apr 27, 2013, at 15:32, Hasan Elías wrote: > >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> Hi, >> >> I read few messages of Stephen Gray, I think he trusts so much on >> philosophers and thinkers. I think Kohlberg and others are nothing and just >> vanishes when compared to Bahá'u'lláh's Revelation. >> >> The
Re: Against nature...
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Another message where I referenced Raëlism. Sent from my iPad On Apr 19, 2013, at 23:35, Stephen Kent Gray wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > There are a variety of religions in the world. While most either are > explicitly anti LGBTQQIA or neutral towards them, there are affirming > religious groups. > > Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Judaism have affirming factions. > This is a specific denominational issue in Judaism and Christianity. I could > add Buddhism as well because of the Hinayana and Mahayana divide on this > issue. Most Hindus are on one side and conservative Hindutva is on the other. > Most Muslims are on one side and the liberal Al Fatiha Foundation and liberal > Imaan groups are on the other. > > Wicca, Unitarian Universalism, Eckankar, LaVeyanism, Raëlism, Neo-Druidism, > and the Native American Religion are affirming religions. Though, not listed > by Wikipedia, I would add Thelema as well to the list due to my own research. > > Religious Humanists and Religious Existentialists tend to be affirming as > well. > > I compiled the lists from Wikipedia articles on affirming religions, > organizations that support same sex marriage, religious views on same sex > marriage, etc. > > It's ironic that the leeway for interpretation in scripture present in the > top five religions allows for flexibility in this matter that the Baha'i > Faith lacks. > > While LGBTQQIA people and allies are part of the top five religions, they do > tend to be drawn to the next seven as well. I wonder what are the religious > demographics of these people. > > Skygram, do you know what religions these ex-Baha'is convert to or to > irreligion? How are they doing today? Do you still keep in contact with them? > Was it all for the better now, if they managed to convert to an affirming > religion or denomination? > > This is especially noted in how lots of Unitarian Universalist churches have > extensive affirming programs in congregations which are known as Welcoming > Churches. > > It is sad for the ones who stay Baha'is, but they apostates probably have > moved on with their lives for the better. > > While I didn't come to my current religious affiliations because they were > affirming, but rather for other reasons. I choose Unitarian Universalism > because of the diversity of religious beliefs that can fit within that big > tent. Religious Humanism because I liked reading the Humanist Manifestoes, > but didn't care for Secular Humanism. Buddhist Humanism, Humanistic Buddhism, > Nichiren Buddhism, Buddhist Modernism, Engaged Buddhism, Buddhist > Protestantism, etc. because of my prior like of Religious Humanism and my > liking of Mahayana Buddhism. > > I was interested in Eckankar because of soul travel and various other things. > I was interested in Contemporary Modern Neo Paganism and hence Neo-Druidism > and Wicca. I was interested in various UFO religions including Raëlism. > > I like the Golden Rule which is in all religions. I like the page on > Wikipedia listing the various formulations across religions. Buddhism and > Humanism have my favorite formulations. I also like the Declaration of a > Global Ethic. Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism have formulations I > read regularly as well via the Wikipedia page. Wicca and Thelema also have > formulations that I have memorized as well as read regularly via Wikipedia. > > The Humanist Manifesto II > > In the best sense, religion may inspire dedication to the highest ethical > ideals. The cultivation of moral devotion and creative imagination is an > expression of genuine spiritual experience and aspiration. > > We believe, however, that traditional dogmatic or religions that place > revelation, God, ritual, or creed above human needs and experience do a > disservice to the human species. > > Whether the Baha'i Faith does a disservice to humanity is up to debate, or > not? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Apr 16, 2013, at 20:20, Skygram wrote: > >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> Gary, >> >> You have prodded the sleeping elephant in the room! >> >> I recall many years ago there was a Bahai bumper sticker that read, "Human >> Rights are God Given Rights". But now that sexual preference is considered a >> human right by many countries along with the United Nations, you don't see >> this bumper sticker any more. >> >> Over the years having known a number of gay Bahais, both male and female, >> who have struggled with their issues of sexual identity, most have ended up >> leaving the Bahai Faith because in it they found no sense of spiritual >> refuge. Instead most encountered a lot of mean spirited behaviour of self >> righteous Bahais of which unfortunately, there are more than a few. >> >> Then there is another group of Bahais who marry into relationships with >> other gay Bahais of the opposite sex. They do this to "pass" as straight for >> variou
Re: Against nature...
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I have no info on other states such as Northern Cyprus, Palestine, Somaliland, Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, etc. I'll also list the countries where there is no illegality for Muslims listed. Algeria, Comoros, Egypt, Morocco, Niger, Tunisia, Iraq, Turkey. Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic is propbably the same as Morocco. No info on Somalia or Somaliland. Sent from my iPad On Apr 20, 2013, at 20:05, Stephen Kent Gray wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > Susan, let's try this. On your next trip to Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, > Kuwait, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen, etc. See if you can legally buy > and drink alcohol there. Then, try and search the black market for illegal > alcohol if you need to. While you don't have to actually drink the alcohol > once you get it, but you need to see which one of us is correct. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:24, Stephen Kent Gray wrote: > >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> Here below is a Wikipedia excerpt. >> >> Note Libya, Sudan, Afghanistan, Brunei, Bangladesh, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, >> Yemen, etc. are listed as completely illegal alcohol status rather than just >> Saudi Arabia like you imply. >> >> Also note Iran and Pakistan are listed as almost completely illegal. >> >> Also note in Gabon, Gambia, Malaysia, Maldives, etc. alcohol is legal for >> everyone except the Muslim minority. >> ethanol (ethyl alcohol, commonly referred to as simply alcohol, produced >> through fermentation by yeast in alcoholic beverages such as wine and beer) >> – legal but regulated in most parts of the world, and illegal in several >> Muslim countries such as Pakistan, Libya, Sudan, Iran and Saudi Arabia; not >> consumed by members of some religions. It acts as a GABAA receptor agonist. >> In chemistry,alcohol can refer to more than ethyl alcohol. Methanol (methyl >> alcohol, or wood alcohol) is poisonous. >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recreational_drug_use >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:10, Susan Maneck wrote: >> >>> The Baha'i Studies Listserv I think only Indonesia is such a Muslim state. All other Muslim states impose Islamic law on all people there, regardless of their actual religious beliefs. India is another state that has religious law that varies depending upon the religion of the person. But for the most, theocratic states and religious states always impose one religions's laws on all people in their territory and citizenship regardless of their religious beliefs. >>> >>> Dear Stephen, >>> I'm talking about the way in which Islamic states have operated >>> historically, not how they might operate today. Check, for instance, >>> the way the Ottoman Empire was organized. Your alcohol example is actually not the case. Muslim states are completely Prohibitionist. >>> >>> Wrong. Even wiki knows better than that. See for instance: >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_in_Iran >>> >>> Now countries like Saudi Arabia prohibit alcohol to everyone but they >>> are not exactly known for their religious tolerance. But countries >>> like Turkey even produce beer. Alcohol is legal in Iraq as well. >>> >>> In Malaysia Chinese people, Christians, Buddhists, and Hindus are all >>> allowed to drink alcohol. It is illegal only for Muslims. In Indonesia >>> there are night clubs, restaurants, and pubs that serve alcohol. You >>> can even bring a bottle of alcohol with into the country legally. . >>> But in certain rural areas it can get you caned. >>> >>> While you can drink alcohol there on the black market, it is still technically illegal. To clarify, Muslim states are completely Prohibitionist regardless of a person's religion. >>> >>> Sorry, Stephen but I have a PhD in Middle East and South East Asia >>> which focuses on religious minorities in the Islamic context, whereas >>> you get all your information from the internet. Which of us do you >>> think knows what they are talking about? >>> >>> Susan >>> >>> __ >>> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com >>> Unsubscribe: send a blank email to >>> mailto:leave-697901-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu >>> Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to >>> ly...@list.jccc.edu >>> Or subscribe: >>> http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st >>> Baha'i Studies is available through the following: >>> Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu >>> Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st >>> News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st >>> Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net >>> New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: ma
Re: Against nature...
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Also forgot to mention that Northern Cyprus is probably the same as Turkey. Sent from my iPad On Apr 30, 2013, at 12:11, Stephen Kent Gray wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > I have no info on other states such as Northern Cyprus, Palestine, > Somaliland, Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, etc. > > I'll also list the countries where there is no illegality for Muslims listed. > Algeria, Comoros, Egypt, Morocco, Niger, Tunisia, Iraq, Turkey. Sahrawi Arab > Democratic Republic is propbably the same as Morocco. No info on Somalia or > Somaliland. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Apr 20, 2013, at 20:05, Stephen Kent Gray wrote: > >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> Susan, let's try this. On your next trip to Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, >> Kuwait, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen, etc. See if you can legally buy >> and drink alcohol there. Then, try and search the black market for illegal >> alcohol if you need to. While you don't have to actually drink the alcohol >> once you get it, but you need to see which one of us is correct. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:24, Stephen Kent Gray wrote: >> >>> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >>> Here below is a Wikipedia excerpt. >>> >>> Note Libya, Sudan, Afghanistan, Brunei, Bangladesh, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, >>> Yemen, etc. are listed as completely illegal alcohol status rather than >>> just Saudi Arabia like you imply. >>> >>> Also note Iran and Pakistan are listed as almost completely illegal. >>> >>> Also note in Gabon, Gambia, Malaysia, Maldives, etc. alcohol is legal for >>> everyone except the Muslim minority. >>> ethanol (ethyl alcohol, commonly referred to as simply alcohol, produced >>> through fermentation by yeast in alcoholic beverages such as wine and beer) >>> – legal but regulated in most parts of the world, and illegal in several >>> Muslim countries such as Pakistan, Libya, Sudan, Iran and Saudi Arabia; not >>> consumed by members of some religions. It acts as a GABAA receptor agonist. >>> In chemistry,alcohol can refer to more than ethyl alcohol. Methanol (methyl >>> alcohol, or wood alcohol) is poisonous. >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recreational_drug_use >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Apr 18, 2013, at 15:10, Susan Maneck wrote: >>> The Baha'i Studies Listserv > I think only Indonesia is such a Muslim state. All other Muslim states > impose Islamic law on all people there, regardless of their actual > religious > beliefs. India is another state that has religious law that varies > depending > upon the religion of the person. But for the most, theocratic states and > religious states always impose one religions's laws on all people in their > territory and citizenship regardless of their religious beliefs. Dear Stephen, I'm talking about the way in which Islamic states have operated historically, not how they might operate today. Check, for instance, the way the Ottoman Empire was organized. > > Your alcohol example is actually not the case. Muslim states are > completely > Prohibitionist. Wrong. Even wiki knows better than that. See for instance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_in_Iran Now countries like Saudi Arabia prohibit alcohol to everyone but they are not exactly known for their religious tolerance. But countries like Turkey even produce beer. Alcohol is legal in Iraq as well. In Malaysia Chinese people, Christians, Buddhists, and Hindus are all allowed to drink alcohol. It is illegal only for Muslims. In Indonesia there are night clubs, restaurants, and pubs that serve alcohol. You can even bring a bottle of alcohol with into the country legally. . But in certain rural areas it can get you caned. While you can drink alcohol there on the black market, it is > still technically illegal. To clarify, Muslim states are completely > Prohibitionist regardless of a person's religion. Sorry, Stephen but I have a PhD in Middle East and South East Asia which focuses on religious minorities in the Islamic context, whereas you get all your information from the internet. Which of us do you think knows what they are talking about? Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697901-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?foru
Re: Against nature...
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Stephen, The name of this list is "Bahá'í Studies". It seems that you do not realize where you are. The Bahá'í Faith has good presence in the Web, bahá'ís reside in almost every country, so I guess one seeker would have the Bahá'í Faith as one of the first choices to investigate. The cold mind is not enough to perceive the Sun of Revelation, spiritual qualities and a mind without veils is needed. You ask: "Why should Jews study the Baha'u'llah over all Jewish Messiah claimants? Why should Christians study Baha'u'llah over all return of Jesus, Paraclete, Holy Spirit, etc. claimants? Why should Muslims study Baha'u'llah over all Mahdi claimants? Why should Bayanis study Baha'u'llah over all Manifestation claimants? Why should Hindus study Baha'u'llah over all Kalki claimants? Why should Buddhists study Baha'u'llah over all Maitreya claimants?" This is ridiculous. You have tons of information about the Bahá'í Faith. So, how is your investigation going? Hasan PS You quoted Covenant-breakers sources, I wonder why the moderator did not you brought out of here. De: Stephen Kent Gray Para: Baha'i Studies Enviado: Lunes, 29 de abril, 2013 7:25 P.M. Asunto: Re: Against nature... The Baha'i Studies Listserv I should explain closer and in more depth. Religions and their scriptures predict Messiahs, Christs, Paracletes, Holy Spirits, Mahdis, Manifestations, Avatars, Kalkis, Buddhas, Maitreyas, etc. The Covenant requires investigations of all claimants. The Baha'i Faith advertises it this way. Your scripture promises, insert term above here. Baha'u'llah is a claimant to be, insert term above here. You should investigate Baha'u'llah's claims because the Covenant requires you to. Also, you should interpret prophecies symbolically to give leeway for claimants. The same marketing technique can be used for all claimants and produce a yes answer to them being who they claim to be. Why should Jews study the Baha'u'llah over all Jewish Messiah claimants? Why should Christians study Baha'u'llah over all return of Jesus, Paraclete, Holy Spirit, etc. claimants? Why should Muslims study Baha'u'llah over all Mahdi claimants? Why should Bayanis study Baha'u'llah over all Manifestation claimants? Why should Hindus study Baha'u'llah over all Kalki claimants? Why should Buddhists study Baha'u'llah over all Maitreya claimants? Side Note: Can one person be several of the above if not all? Can several people if not all be the same things above? Adi Dam (Adi Da Love Ananda Samraj) Ahmadiyya Islam aka Qadianism (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad) Baha'i Faith (Baha'u'llah) Islam (Muhammad) Ismaili Islam aka Ismailism (Ali through Aga Khan IV, Shia Imams) Kalki, Mahdi, Messiah, etc. Foundation International (Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi) Mission of Maitreya, Eternal Divine Path (Joseph Emmanuel, Ahmad ibn Abdullah) Neo Gnosticism aka Universal Christian Gnostic Church (Samael Aun Weor) Raëlism (Claude Vorilhon aka Raël) Scientology (Lafayette Ronald Hubbard) What do all the above have in common? Either they themselves or followers on their behalf have claimed their Kalki status and Maitreya status. Wikipedia links to articles about what Kalki and Maitreya prophecies they fulfill and how. For example, one I inadvertently ran across was the Maitreya boatsman prophecy on the bodhisattva page of Wikipedia. I have studied Scientology since High School despite all the controversy surrounding it. I also started studying Raëlism recently and have downloaded several e books from the Web. Also, I mention the above because I only felt like listing the prophecies of Indian Dharmic religions and not Abrahamic ones. I have also seen a paper on the Baha'i Faith in India and read about debates between Ahmadis and Baha'is. Explain why only Muhammad and Baha'u'llah mentioned above are Kalki and Maitreya, while reffering only to Hindu and Buddhist texts. I for one haven't combed through the Puranas and Sutras for each and every prophecy to compare each claimant to, but have seen various pages describing how each and every claimant above fulfills them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitreya http://www.maitreya.org/ Sent from my iPad On Apr 29, 2013, at 13:13, Stephen Kent Gray wrote: >The Baha'i Studies Listserv >Hasan, any list of religions and spiritual traditions will show the almost >infinite number of Faiths, Communities, Revelations, etc. that exist and are >extant, not to mention extinct and reconstructed ones. > > >Also, in the topic on post conventional morality, the topic was more on the >variety of new religious movements and their impacts on morality in society. > > >Hasan, you seem to hold that religions and spiritual traditions are all >intrinsically higher than philosophies and thoughts. I have no opinion on the >matter, but am familiar with various religions like Raëlism, Scientology, Neo >Gnostici
Re: Against nature...
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Hasan, Susan has told the gentleman that he is no longer welcome here. He is however not a person to worry about whether he is welcome somewhere. His concern is not to discuss so much as it is his craving to demonstrate how many wikipedia sites he has visited and how many factoids he has memorized. How does that quote go? "Leave them to amuse themselves with their vain discourse." Susan has also asked the rest of us to stop replying to his posts. Peace, Gary -Original Message- From: Hasan Elías To: Baha'i Studies Sent: Tue, Apr 30, 2013 3:40 pm Subject: Re: Against nature... The Baha'i Studies Listserv Stephen, The name of this list is "Bahá'í Studies". It seems that you do not realize where you are. The Bahá'í Faith has good presence in the Web, bahá'ís reside in almost every country, so I guess one seeker would have the Bahá'í Faith as one of the first choices to investigate. The cold mind is not enough to perceive the Sun of Revelation, spiritual qualities and a mind without veils is needed. You ask: "Why should Jews study the Baha'u'llah over all Jewish Messiah claimants? Why should Christians study Baha'u'llah over all return of Jesus, Paraclete, Holy Spirit, etc. claimants? Why should Muslims study Baha'u'llah over all Mahdi claimants? Why should Bayanis study Baha'u'llah over all Manifestation claimants? Why should Hindus study Baha'u'llah over all Kalki claimants? Why should Buddhists study Baha'u'llah over all Maitreya claimants?" This is ridiculous. You have tons of information about the Bahá'í Faith. So, how is your investigation going? Hasan PS You quoted Covenant-breakers sources, I wonder why the moderator did not you brought out of here. De: Stephen Kent Gray Para: Baha'i Studies Enviado: Lunes, 29 de abril, 2013 7:25 P.M. Asunto: Re: Against nature... The Baha'i Studies Listserv I should explain closer and in more depth. Religions and their scriptures predict Messiahs, Christs, Paracletes, Holy Spirits, Mahdis, Manifestations, Avatars, Kalkis, Buddhas, Maitreyas, etc. The Covenant requires investigations of all claimants. The Baha'i Faith advertises it this way. Your scripture promises, insert term above here. Baha'u'llah is a claimant to be, insert term above here. You should investigate Baha'u'llah's claims because the Covenant requires you to. Also, you should interpret prophecies symbolically to give leeway for claimants. The same marketing technique can be used for all claimants and produce a yes answer to them being who they claim to be. Why should Jews study the Baha'u'llah over all Jewish Messiah claimants? Why should Christians study Baha'u'llah over all return of Jesus, Paraclete, Holy Spirit, etc. claimants? Why should Muslims study Baha'u'llah over all Mahdi claimants? Why should Bayanis study Baha'u'llah over all Manifestation claimants? Why should Hindus study Baha'u'llah over all Kalki claimants? Why should Buddhists study Baha'u'llah over all Maitreya claimants? Side Note: Can one person be several of the above if not all? Can several people if not all be the same things above? Adi Dam (Adi Da Love Ananda Samraj) Ahmadiyya Islam aka Qadianism (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad) Baha'i Faith (Baha'u'llah) Islam (Muhammad) Ismaili Islam aka Ismailism (Ali through Aga Khan IV, Shia Imams) Kalki, Mahdi, Messiah, etc. Foundation International (Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi) Mission of Maitreya, Eternal Divine Path (Joseph Emmanuel, Ahmad ibn Abdullah) Neo Gnosticism aka Universal Christian Gnostic Church (Samael Aun Weor) Raëlism (Claude Vorilhon aka Raël) Scientology (Lafayette Ronald Hubbard) What do all the above have in common? Either they themselves or followers on their behalf have claimed their Kalki status and Maitreya status. Wikipedia links to articles about what Kalki and Maitreya prophecies they fulfill and how. For example, one I inadvertently ran across was the Maitreya boatsman prophecy on the bodhisattva page of Wikipedia. I have studied Scientology since High School despite all the controversy surrounding it. I also started studying Raëlism recently and have downloaded several e books from the Web. Also, I mention the above because I only felt like listing the prophecies of Indian Dharmic religions and not Abrahamic ones. I have also seen a paper on the Baha'i Faith in India and read about debates between Ahmadis and Baha'is. Explain why only Muhammad and Baha'u'llah mentioned above are Kalki and Maitreya, while reffering only to Hindu and Buddhist texts. I for one haven't combed through the Puranas and Sutras for each and every prophecy to compare each claimant to, but have seen various pages describing how each and every claimant above fulfills them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitreya http://www.maitreya.org/ Sent from my iPad On Apr 29, 2013,
