Re: Lamps before the Throne
Dear Ahang, Actually, there are 4 elders whose identity is unknown at the present. That is, of the 24, we can account for 20: The Bab, 18 Letters and Vakilu'd-Dawlih. That leaves 4 more to be identified and there is nothing that suggests Siyyid Kazim or Shaykh Ahmad should be included. I agree. The elders are of this Dispensation, and Siyyid Kazim died in 1843, before it began. He and Shaykh Ahmad were in the Dispensation of Muhammad. Regards, David _ Find your perfect match @ http://personals.xtramsn.co.nz with XtraMSN Personals! -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Lamps before the Throne
There are some passages from Baha'u'llah which echo prophecies in the Revelation of John. In the Revelation of John, Chapter 4 is written: “After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. (Revelation 4:1-4) Baha'u'llah uses this imagery in a Tablet He revealed to Ismu'llahu'l-Asdaq: The lamp burning before the Throne, likewise, weepeth and groaneth by reason of the things which the Ancient Beauty hath suffered at the hands of them who are but a creation of His Will. (Gleanings Selection CXXVI, US edition p. 295) The Bab has revealed in the Persian Bayan: Any reference to His being established upon the throne implieth that the Exponent of His Revelation is established upon the seat of transcendent authority... (Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 113) Another passage from Baha'u'llah's Writings that summons imagery from the Revelation of John is: Say: If it be Our pleasure We shall render the Cause victorious through the power of a single word from Our presence. He is in truth the Omnipotent, the All-Compelling. Should it be God's intention, there would appear out of the forests of celestial might the lion of indomitable strength whose roaring is like unto the peals of thunder reverberating in the mountains. (Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 197) Please compare Revelation, Chapter 10: And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. Baha'u'llah is referred to as the Mystery of God on p. 102 of God Passes By. Commentaries welcome. Brent -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Lamps before the Throne
In a message dated 8/25/03 12:13:55 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and thefirst voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me;which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must behereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God." (Revelation 4:1-4) Things which suggest the Bab to me: a "door" opened up in heaven - the Bab is "gate" and "door" in Arabic of course. a voice "as of a trumpet" conjures up the Quran's anticipation of the "blasts upon the trumpet". "sight like unto an emerald" brings to mind the green turban of the Bab as a Siyyid. "24 seats" 19 Letters of the LIving, the Bab, Siyyid Kazim, Sheikh Amad, and what two others? - This is a reach of course, but one is encourage to find as many meanings as possible and embrace them all. "Seven Spirits of God"? The Seven Manifestations preceding the Bab? All sharing a single throne? -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Lamps before the Throne
On 8/25/03 8:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seven Spirits of God? The Seven Manifestations preceding the Bab? All sharing a single throne? I think it is more likely that this is numerological symbolism. Seven in the ancient near east was a number of completion corresponding to Saturn. That is why there are seven days in a week, the year of Jubilee is the year 49, 7 times 7, and the ultimate bliss is seventh heaven. It is found in Jewish tho't at least from the Babylonian captivity. The ultimate blessing was sevenfold as was the ultimate curse. Somewhere in Numbers is the story of Balaam and Balak in which Balaam builds seven alters and sacrifices seven rams prior to his invocation. Balak wants it to be against Israel, but Balaam performs a blessing instead. Don C - - - - - He who believes himself spiritual proves he is not. -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
