RE: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
Max wrote: It seems that in the West, still a sense of moral spiritual obligation to the Baha'i consultation and to its majority decision is lacking, and most Administrators, still resisting detachment from their cults of individualism, function as individuals rather than groups. Still it is impossible for many Administrators to submit to the will of the majority in a Committee, Assembly, or group. Many members of Committees and Assemblies still go their own personal ways when majority decisions are in variance to their own, and either boycott the majority decision or belittle the majority decision in the community among the believers causing the decision to fail. Max, I suppose you have seen this but I would like to say that this is not my dominant experience.It is indeed very difficult to go along with a decision one believes is clearly wrong. However, my experience, at least of the last two Assemblies I served on, is that the decisions most likely to be decided by a majority rather than by consensus are the hard ones, and seen by all to be hard, and on these nobody is sure what is the right answer. Usually each of us is pleased that the Assembly and not they will have the final decision. If anything I think the bigger danger is not the 'cult of individualism' but groupthink. Groupthink (the word was coined by Irving Janis at Yale University) indicates the danger to good decision-making that comes from group conformity. Regards William __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
Dear Patti, Thank you for the quotes! With regard to rank of saints, heros, martyrs and administrators, and any honor these titles might imply is due to the recognition one receives in direct proportion to their personal effort... Whoso maketh efforts for Us, in Our ways shall We assuredly guide him. (Baha'u'llah: from the Qur'án 29:69, Gems of Divine Mysteries, p. 78) In The Advent of Divine Justice, the Guardian puts it this way: ...last but not least, the multitudinous issues that must be faced, the obstacles that must be overcome, and the responsibilities that must be assumed,... (p. 14) If such an individual is held in high regard -their life; their example, elevates the status of the Baha'i Faith and validates the Revelation of Baha'u'llah as the surest path to world unity. The following quote is also from Abdu'l-Baha. Perhaps we might consider all these guidelines for administrators when we are electing our Assembly members in April. Lovingly, Sandra The prime requisites for them that take counsel together are purity of motive, radiance of spirit, detachment from all else save God, attraction to His Divine Fragrances, humility and lowliness amongst His loved ones, patience and long-suffering in difficulties and servitude to His exalted Threshold. Should they be graciously aided to acquire these attributes, victory from the unseen Kingdom of Baha shall be vouchsafed to them. The members thereof [1. Of a Spiritual Assembly] must take counsel together in such wise that no occasion for ill-feeling or discord may arise. This can be attained when every member expresseth with absolute freedom his own opinion and setteth forth his argument. Should anyone oppose, he must on no account feel hurt for not until matters are fully discussed can the right way be revealed. The shining spark of truth cometh forth only after the clash of differing opinions. If after discussion, a decision be carried unanimously well and good; but if, the Lord forbid, differences of opinion shou ld arise, a majority of voices must prevail. The first condition is absolute love and harmony amongst the members of the assembly. They must be wholly free from estrangement and must manifest in themselves the Unity of God, for they are the waves of one sea, the drops of one river, the stars of one heaven, the rays of one sun, the trees of one orchard, the flowers of one garden. Should harmony of thought and absolute unity be nonexistent, that gathering shall be dispersed and that assembly be brought to naught. (Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 87-88) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
I agree that being a martyr ora saint is harder than being a bureaucrat. Maybe what Hartmut Grossmann was trying to say is that a Baha'i administrator is called on to be much more than a bureaucrat, too. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
Mark A. Foster wrote: Brent, At 04:14 PM 1/17/2004, you wrote: So to me, a true Bahai administrator does display the same characteristic of devotion and consecration as a martyr does. Perhaps to some degree, but does that rank an administrator three or four levels above a martyr? Mark A. Foster * http://MarkFoster.net http://CompuServe.MarkFoster.name The fact that a House of Justice member interprets this list to be in rank order does not mean that it is true. My personal opinion currently is that this is a list of roles, not stations; and that one's rank is not dependent on one's role. Don C -- - - - - - He who believes himself spiritual proves he is not. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
Don, At 01:43 AM 1/18/2004, you wrote: The fact that a House of Justice member interprets this list to be in rank order does not mean that it is true. Obviously, not, but it is a rather strange list. My personal opinion currently is that this is a list of roles, not stations; and that one's rank is not dependent on one's role. I agree - except for martyrdom. Mark A. Foster * http://MarkFoster.net http://CompuServe.MarkFoster.name __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
RE: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
-Original Message- From: Mark A. Foster Ahang, At 01:34 PM 1/17/2004, you wrote: Being a martyr is easier than being a bureaucrat? Amazing! I agree. I think that the premise is absurd. Perhaps he has been an administrator a bit too long. Mark A. Foster Dear Ahang and Mark, Granting that amazing conceit on the part of bureaucrats would perhaps be something warranting comment, I think that unfortunately we have once again managed to completely misinterpret someone's point of view, which is sometimes an easy thing to do. Although I think there is no chance at all that Shoghi Effendi considered the list saints, heroes, martyrs and administrators to be in order of difficulty from easiest to hardest (and therefore personally think Mr. Grossman's interpretation of the Guardian's words is incorrect in that regard), I think Brent accurately perceived that in Mr. Grossman's point of view a true Baha'i administrator must exemplify the stations of saint, hero and martyr, and that Mr. Grossman's interpretation tells volumes about how hard Mr. Grossman finds administrative service in the Faith, and how much he puts into it. --- Vaughn __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
Mr. Grossman's interpretation tells volumes about how hard Mr. Grossman finds administrative service in the Faith, and how much he puts into it. Dear Vaughn, I think that's what Mark was trying to say when we suggested Mr. Grossman had been an administrator too long. I don't think he was suggesting that Mr. Grossman was conceited, just jaded. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
RE: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
Vaughn, At 11:08 AM 1/18/2004, you wrote: I think Brent accurately perceived that in Mr. Grossman's point of view a true Baha'i administrator must exemplify the stations of saint, hero and martyr I would say that any Baha'i, administrator or not, should strive to exemplify the qualities associated with those conditions. However, even if, heaven knows why, one restricts it to administrators, I am not convinced that this was Grossmann's point. Mark A. Foster * http://MarkFoster.net http://CompuServe.MarkFoster.name __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
Dear Brent, What you've outlined are the characters that *every* Baha'i should strive towards. There is nothing that sets apart, or exalts, Baha'i administers from the rest of the rank and file. Setting aside the that in my view Grossmann has completely misinterpreted Shoghi Effendi, it demonstrated an incredible insensitivity to our history, which is built on pain, suffering and a lot of spilled blood?! One wonders if the Dawn-Breakers has ever been read. ahang. Brent Poirier [EMAIL PROTECTED]@list.jccc.net on 01/17/2004 04:14:53 PM Please respond to Baha'i Studies [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:Baha'i Studies [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators Being a martyr is easier than being a bureaucrat? Amazing! The true calling of a Baha'i administrator is a very high one. It calls on one to be a complete person, to have a well-developed panoply of virtues, and to be wholly consecrated to the well-being of the Cause of Baha??lah and humanity as a whole. As the Guardian made clear, the spirit of consecration is what counts, which was expressed in a previous day as martyrdom, and now is expressed through service. It is true that if we are halfhearted Baha?s we do not deserve to say that our deeds today, and our spirit today, is the same as that of the martyrs. But I think Mr. Grossman was not talking about the armchair Bahai administrator. I think he was talking about the true calling, the fullness of what it means to be a shepherd to humanity. Just a cursory glance at the necessary virtues of the Bahai administrators in the Writings includes these high attainments: to be motivated by a true sense of love extreme humility candor entire devotion long-suffering kindliness moral courage self-discipline complete reliance on the power of Baha??lah detachment from all else save God to act in the spirit of self-sacrifice I am a member of my local spiritual assembly, but I don? claim to be a Bahai administrator. I know one, though. He gets up at 5:00 every morning to pray for two hours for his community before he goes to work. He and his family support the activities of the friends, their firesides and feasts and devotional meetings. He is available to a believer with a stalled car, or a seeker with a profound question. But it is not only these outward deeds. I really think that being a true spiritual assembly member is the hardest job in the faith today. It calls on us to stretch in ways that other human beings are not asked to stretch; to accept others and be respectful of their views; to be candid not only in offering our views, but in admitting our own flaws; to reach out in love to those who have been rejected; to listen to harsh and undeserved criticism addressed to us, and not to respond in kind; and to look at all things with a spiritual eye. So to me, a true Bahai administrator does display the same characteristic of devotion and consecration as a martyr does. But it is a long way to being a true Bahai administrator. And I think that is who Mr. Grossman was describing. He led into his comments by quoting from the Master, ...we, all of us, should strive with our whole hearts to offer ourselves up, guide others to His path, and train the souls of men. Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public) This communication is for use by the intended recipient and contains information that may be privileged, confidential or copyrighted under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby formally notified that any use, copying or distribution of this e-mail, in whole or in part, is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this e-mail from your system. Unless explicitly and conspicuously designated as E-Contract Intended, this e-mail does not constitute a contract offer, a contract amendment, or an acceptance of a contract offer. This e-mail does not constitute a consent to the use of sender's contact information for direct marketing purposes or for transfers of data to third parties. Francais Deutsch Italiano Espanol Portugues Japanese Chinese Korean http://www.DuPont.com/corp/email_disclaimer.html b?.n???Z??z??rf?i?)m??ym?v?5X7 rw??nv'?j)ZnW???ay?????[hm?e?cq?z?nm??q?zy?~??+-5??,?b??m??y???!? 0o??'
RE: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
The significance of need for good Baha'i Administrators become apparent when we meditate on Mr. Grossmann's statement that: A duty in the west is seen as something that we try to avoid. It seems that in the West, still a sense of moral spiritual obligation to the Baha'i consultation and to its majority decision is lacking, and most Administrators, still resisting detachment from their cults of individualism, function as individuals rather than groups. Still it is impossible for many Administrators to submit to the will of the majority in a Committee, Assembly, or group. Many members of Committees and Assemblies still go their own personal ways when majority decisions are in variance to their own, and either boycott the majority decision or belittle the majority decision in the community among the believers causing the decision to fail. In many non-Western Baha'i communities, not only individuals sacrifice themselves in order that the best majority decision is reached by the group, but they arise with dedication and self-sacrifice to achieve the decision reached by the majority at the grassroots, or at institution level. However, at this time still in the West: A duty in the west is seen as something that we try to avoid., when a majority decision creates duty or needs commitment on the part of those who made it, then in most instances the very atmosphere of consultation which creates commitment and duty is suppressed in order to escape the sense of guilt of ignoring the majority decision. As Western believers, we will learn that to be a real Baha'i Administrator is far more difficult than being a martyr at a time when each Administrator among us function and work similar to members of the Universal House of Justice or members of National Assemblies in countries under severe persecution. Best regards, --Max. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
I'd be interested to know where he got the idea that the Guardian was arranging these categories from easiest to most difficult. Presumably, he looked these terms up elsewhere and reached that conclusion. However, all the Guardian said was: He urges you to make up your minds to do great, great deeds for the Faith; the condition of the world is steadily growing worse, and your generation must provide the saints, heroes, martyrs and administrators of future years. With dedication and will power you can rise to great heights. -- From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi, October 2, 1951, and cited: Lights of Guidance, p.630 Mark A. Foster * http://MarkFoster.net http://CompuServe.MarkFoster.name __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
Being a martyr is easier than being a bureaucrat? Amazing! This communication is for use by the intended recipient and contains information that may be privileged, confidential or copyrighted under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby formally notified that any use, copying or distribution of this e-mail, in whole or in part, is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this e-mail from your system. Unless explicitly and conspicuously designated as E-Contract Intended, this e-mail does not constitute a contract offer, a contract amendment, or an acceptance of a contract offer. This e-mail does not constitute a consent to the use of sender's contact information for direct marketing purposes or for transfers of data to third parties. Francais Deutsch Italiano Espanol Portugues Japanese Chinese Korean http://www.DuPont.com/corp/email_disclaimer.html __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
Mark A. Foster wrote: I'd be interested to know where he got the idea that the Guardian was arranging these categories from easiest to most difficult. If a rank order is to be insisted upon, I would say he has it backwards. Seems to me that a definition of 'hero' in the Faith could be 'living martyrdom', a station to which the western Baha'is are called and few attain, and to which I would assign the Hands of the Cause. As to saint, I have no problem assigning this station to Bahiyyih Khanum. But beyond that, I think all others are speculative. (I don't think it is appropriate to assign Abdu'l-Baha or Shoghi Effendi to this station, as they are each in a category of their own.) Don C -- - - - - - He who believes himself spiritual proves he is not. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
Don, At 08:39 AM 1/17/2004, you wrote: If a rank order is to be insisted upon, I would say he has it backwards. That is my impression, too. Mark A. Foster * http://MarkFoster.net http://CompuServe.MarkFoster.name __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
Being a martyr is easier than being a bureaucrat? Amazing! The true calling of a Baha'i administrator is a very high one. It calls on one to be a complete person, to have a well-developed panoply of virtues, and to be wholly consecrated to the well-being of the Cause of Bahaullah and humanity as a whole. As the Guardian made clear, the spirit of consecration is what counts, which was expressed in a previous day as martyrdom, and now is expressed through service. It is true that if we are halfhearted Bahais we do not deserve to say that our deeds today, and our spirit today, is the same as that of the martyrs. But I think Mr. Grossman was not talking about the armchair Bahai administrator. I think he was talking about the true calling, the fullness of what it means to be a shepherd to humanity. Just a cursory glance at the necessary virtues of the Bahai administrators in the Writings includes these high attainments: to be motivated by a true sense of love extreme humility candor entire devotion long-suffering kindliness moral courage self-discipline complete reliance on the power of Bahaullah detachment from all else save God to act in the spirit of self-sacrifice I am a member of my local spiritual assembly, but I dont claim to be a Bahai administrator. I know one, though. He gets up at 5:00 every morning to pray for two hours for his community before he goes to work. He and his family support the activities of the friends, their firesides and feasts and devotional meetings. He is available to a believer with a stalled car, or a seeker with a profound question. But it is not only these outward deeds. I really think that being a true spiritual assembly member is the hardest job in the faith today. It calls on us to stretch in ways that other human beings are not asked to stretch; to accept others and be respectful of their views; to be candid not only in offering our views, but in admitting our own flaws; to reach out in love to those who have been rejected; to listen to harsh and undeserved criticism addressed to us, and not to respond in kind; and to look at all things with a spiritual eye. So to me, a true Bahai administrator does display the same characteristic of devotion and consecration as a martyr does. But it is a long way to being a true Bahai administrator. And I think that is who Mr. Grossman was describing. He led into his comments by quoting from the Master, ...we, all of us, should strive with our whole hearts to offer ourselves up, guide others to His path, and train the souls of men. Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
Brent, At 04:14 PM 1/17/2004, you wrote: So to me, a true Bahai administrator does display the same characteristic of devotion and consecration as a martyr does. Perhaps to some degree, but does that rank an administrator three or four levels above a martyr? Mark A. Foster * http://MarkFoster.net http://CompuServe.MarkFoster.name __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
I'd be interested to know where he got the idea that the Guardian was arranging these categories from easiest to most difficult. I assume that is his own view, based on his own experiences. Given that this is the view of a man who lived through the Nazi persecution of the Baha'i community, it tells volumes about how hard he finds administrative service in the Faith, and how much he puts into it. As to saint, I have no problem assigning this station to Bahiyyih Khanum. But beyond that, I think all others are speculative. (I don't think it is appropriate to assign Abdu'l-Baha or Shoghi Effendi to this station, as they are each in a category of their own.) Rank is an interesting thing. When writing of the burial of Navvab, the Purest Branch and Bahiyyih Khanum in the Monument Gardens, Shoghi Effendi wrote of ...these three incomparably precious souls who, next to the three Central Figures of our Faith, tower in rank above the vast multitude of the heroes, Letters, martyrs, Hands, teachers and administrators of the Cause of Baha'u'llah... (Messages to America 1932-1946, pp. 32-33) Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
I recall that Ruhiyyih Khanum once reported that the Guardian said to her that her mother was a hero but her father was a saint. I'm not sure he was trying to say that her mother was better than her father, much less that Horace Holley was greater than both of them. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
I am a member of my local spiritual assembly, but I dont claim to be a Bahai administrator. I know one, though. He gets up at 5:00 every morning to pray for two hours for his community before he goes to work. He and his family support the activities of the friends, their firesides and feasts and devotional meetings. He is available to a believer with a stalled car, or a seeker with a profound question. Dear Brent, But none of the above specifically relate to being an administrator. Why not call the above a saint instead? warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
I am a member of my local spiritual assembly, but I dont claim to be a Bahai administrator. I know one, though. He gets up at 5:00 every morning to pray for two hours for his community before he goes to work. He and his family support the activities of the friends, their firesides and feasts and devotional meetings. He is available to a believer with a stalled car, or a seeker with a profound question. I'm not about to argue the various ranks, because I think it probably depends on the individual person, and the judgment is God's, not mine; however, I would like to agree with the idea that a true administrator does have special responsibilities including the responsibility to carry forward necessary work for other people, not just him- or herself. Remember that many of the martyrs in Iran a couple of decades ago were administrators and specifically targeted, members of the NSA (and their replacements) and LSA's, until these bodies were suspended in obedience to the government's decree. Patti Here are a few quotes: If administrators of the law would take into consideration the spiritual consequences of their decisions, and follow the guidance of religion, They would be Divine agents in the world of action, the representatives of God for those who are on earth, and they would defend, for the love of God, the interests of His servants as they would defend their own. If a governor realizes his responsibility, and fears to defy the Divine Law, his judgments will be just. Above all, if he believes that the consequences of his actions will follow him beyond his earthly life, and that as he sows so must he reap, such a man will surely avoid injustice and tyranny. (Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 157) The administrators of the Faith of God must be like unto shepherds. Their aim should be to dispel all the doubts, misunderstanding and harmful differences which may arise in the community of the believers. And this they can adequately achieve provided they are motivated by a true sense of love for their fellow-brethren coupled with firm determination to act with justice in all cases which are submitted to them for their consideration. (From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, March 9, 1934: The Local Spiritual Assembly, p. 23) (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 33) ... Their functions is not to dictate, but to consult, and consult not only among themselves, but as much as possible with the friends whom they represent. They must regard themselves in no other light but that of chosen instrument for a more efficient and dignified presentation of the Cause of God. They should never be led to suppose that they are the central ornaments of the body of the Cause, intrinsically superior to others in capacity or merit, and sole promoters of its teachings and principles. They should approach their task with extreme humility, and endeavor by their open-mindedness, their high sense of justice and duty, their candour, their modesty, their entire devotion to the welfare and interest of the friends, the Cause, and humanity, to win not only the confidence and the genuine support and respect of those who they should serve, but also their esteem and real affection. They must at all times avoid the spirit of exclusiveness, the atmosphere of secrecy, free themselves from a domineering attitude, and banish all forms of prejudice and passion from their deliberations. (Shoghi Effendi, From a letter to the Bahs of America, February 23, 1924: Bah Administration, p. 64) (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 32) But as already emphasized, both the spirit and the form, are essential to the safe and speedy development of the Administration. To maintain full balance between them is the main and unique responsibility of the administrators of the Cause. (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States, December 10, 1933) (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 35) ... So often ... situations arise because there is tendency, very human but not very kind, for late-comers to belittle the work done by the first believers and hurt their feelings. Those responsible therefore, for carrying on the work must be extremely tactful and loving in their efforts to prevent a rift from occurring. it is very difficult for the administrators of the Cause to learn to be absolutely impartial, patient and wise, and very difficult for the believers to learn to give up personal will to the will of the majority! But this is Bahullhs standard, and they must all constantly strive to attain it. (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the Inter-America Committee, March 28, 1950) (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 39) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the
Re: Baha'i Saints, Heroes, Martyrs, Administrators
But none of the above specifically relate to being an administrator. Why not call the above a saint instead? You are quite correct, this is saintly behavior. And Mr. Grossman's point was that to be a real Baha'i administrator, one needs to be a saint. Baha'i administration isn't about pushing paper. It's about love and dedication, and that's what the Writings call for. When the Assembly members live sacrificially for their communities, the communities advance. Advancement doesn't come cheap. It requires martyrdom. Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.net/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
