Re: [BangPypers] Good Python training in blr
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Dhananjay Nenedhananjay.n...@gmail.com wrote: I respect your calibre in training yourself. But cannot respect every organisation has the same luxury of waiting for programmers to train themselves so that they can eventually start using python. I trained myself in C and even parts of C++. But when I attended a training programme by one of the core C++ team members, it substantially expanded my capabilities on C++. Can't see how calibre is linked to being trained .. every one of us has the potential to be trained further - low, medium or high calibre. What C++ core team member? :-/ Roshan ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Good Python training in blr
Sorry folks. Some editing on what i just typed. still learning still are learning to face when encouraged to face On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 11:02 AM, jayasimha makineni jayasimha.makin...@gmail.com wrote: Kenneth, You have been hitting the nail on its head repeatedly. I enjoy watching (reading) that. Let us train more programmers who can truly be *programmers*. Python is perhaps the best vehicle for that journey. My understanding is that those who claim to be good programmers do not like it if they are told on their face that they still learning to be just programmers. (What is wrong with life long learning anyway ? It is never late to learn). And their managers have an even worse feeling to face facts because they have to justify their salaries and other bills too. jayasimha ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Good Python training in blr
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Ramdas Sram...@developeriq.com wrote: IMHO, even an experienced hand in C/C++ or Java need not take to Python easily, because of the baggage they carry, and they expect certain things to work the way their favorite language works. This can be quite frustrating if learning Python is for a project they need to start next Monday. This is where a trainer can help, because the trainer can guide and point out potential pitfalls, and get a developer through the basics in a jiffy. This baggage is indeed an issue. Thinking in terms of a new language would require reading a lot of code written using that language, and then too, one cannot be certain. To give you my own example, I learned my Object Oriented Programming from really senior Smalltalkers, and I developed and sold components based on excellent IBM business object frameworks. After I joined Thoughtworks, I was exposed to a different world where dependency injection was proposed as an alternative to getters and setters (accessors, as some of us may call them), where the line between do the simplest thing possible and do what ever is necessary to complete just _your_ work for the day can be a fine line, and where the same Java language that I had used for six years, was now being used in a different way. I had a lot of excess luggage, some of which I still lug around with me - and all this was on the same language that I had been using. When you move to a different language, there would have to be paradigm shifts, new ways of thinking, and even pitfalls that one may not recognize to be a pitfall. In such cases, I feel that it can help if one has something like Python for Java programmers - either as a book, as a series of sample code and or web page articles, or even a training session. -- Sriram ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Good Python training in blr
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 11:02 AM, jayasimha makineni jayasimha.makin...@gmail.com wrote: Kenneth, You have been hitting the nail on its head repeatedly. I enjoy watching (reading) that. Let us train more programmers who can truly be *programmers*. Python is perhaps the best vehicle for that journey. My understanding is that those who claim to be good programmers do not like it if they are told on their face that they still learning to be just programmers. (What is wrong with life long learning anyway ? It is never late to learn). And their managers have an even worse feeling to face facts because they have to justify their salaries and other bills too. jayasimha ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers You seem to be questioning the wrong problem. What you state might be entirely true but is irrelevant in this context. Any given company has a million kabillion things to do. Resources are precious, and allowing them to self-learn on company time is not exactly a wise financial decision. There is no easy way to monitor them and measure their progress if they do self-learn. A lot of people might not take to the decision seriously enough and as mentioned by other posters, might carry around serious paradigm based baggage. Several C/C++ people I've known take their time to find their footing with perl, esp with using Hash as an important data structure. While specific corporate training might not be any better at improving this than self help, a training course could be structured well enough to stress on idiomatic concepts that they might never find out by reading certain books or looking at certain sites. Also, while I do advocate self-help, I honestly believe that a sense of curiosity is than the sources you learn from. Jayanth ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Good Python training in blr
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 11:02 AM, jayasimha makineni jayasimha.makin...@gmail.com wrote: Let us train more programmers who can truly be *programmers*. Python is How do you make that decision ? Is there an objective set of criterion ? perhaps the best vehicle for that journey. My understanding is that those who Advocacy isn't the subject matter, I believe ! :-) There is a best tool for every job, and very rarely, one best tool for every job !! snip And their managers have an even worse feeling to face facts because they have to justify their salaries and other bills too. First thing is for the managers to justify their own salaries. IMHO, talking of lacunae, we are riddled with a defunct hierarchy of managers who switched tracks because they could no longer keep up with the productivity and smartness of younger, smarter and more agile bunch of engineers !! of course, that is generalisation streched too far... but i doubt, too detached from reality. -- regards, Banibrata http://www.linkedin.com/in/bdutta ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Good Python training in blr
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:35:23PM +0530, Srijayanth Sridhar wrote: Hello, Are there any good python training programs in Bangalore? Can anybody point me in the right direction? This isn't for me, its for colleagues who might need to learn Python for an upcoming project. Please search the archives of the group, few of the members had listed their training programmes. You might want to contact them (if they have not contacted you already). There are good freelancers who can take up the training too. -- Senthil ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Good Python training in blr
On Tuesday 16 June 2009 07:56:08 Senthil Kumaran wrote: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:35:23PM +0530, Srijayanth Sridhar wrote: Hello, Are there any good python training programs in Bangalore? Can anybody point me in the right direction? This isn't for me, its for colleagues who might need to learn Python for an upcoming project. Please search the archives of the group, few of the members had listed their training programmes. You might want to contact them (if they have not contacted you already). frankly people who need to be _trained_ in python can't be of much calibre. I can understand using python to train people in programming, but not the other way around. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Good Python training in blr
Hi all, I have not touched Python for some time now. But I am willing to train any kind of people on a freelance basis. jayasimha ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Good Python training in blr
IMHO, even an experienced hand in C/C++ or Java need not take to Python easily, because of the baggage they carry, and they expect certain things to work the way their favorite language works. This can be quite frustrating if learning Python is for a project they need to start next Monday. This is where a trainer can help, because the trainer can guide and point out potential pitfalls, and get a developer through the basics in a jiffy. While most of us in this group are self taught Python developers and has perhaps enjoyed from the joys of self learning, it wont be a nice experience if someone targets that I am going to be a Python developer by next week! I guess getting trained is also more about productivity, also if the trainer is really good, then even an experienced Python developer can learn one or two new tips and tricks. On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.orgwrote: On Tuesday 16 June 2009 10:23:04 Banibrata Dutta wrote: frankly people who need to be _trained_ in python can't be of much calibre. I can understand using python to train people in programming, but not the other way around. Isn't that too much of -ve assumption and generalisation ? I've known excellent programmers adept at using other languages, but a training helped them a lot with getting them quickly started. Of course, the mileage did vary, but the above generalisation is completely unfounded. I was expressing a personal opinion. My experience in the few python trainings that I have done was that I ended up training people in programming rather than in python as such. And since I am not much of a programmer, I have given up conducting python training. The most I am willing to do is a ten minute session with the python shell and make sure people know the 'dir' and 'help' commands. I also found that most of the people I had 'trained' in python migrated back to the languages they came from (php or dotnet). As for languages like C, training makes more sense as it is a tough language - I have never managed to learn it. And training in perl makes even less sense as there are so many ways to do things that trainer and trainee will never see eye to eye. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers -- Ramdas S +91 9342 583 065 ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
