[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ton Koopman - pitch of J S B Cantatas (YouTube)
I found this very interesting: http://www.nme.com/awards/video/id/TmqhLIxNnp0/search/koopman But I don't understand: with all the transposing going on between 465, and 415, what is the outcome pitched at? When TK says, put the whole thing in Eb, and the thing is ready, my question is: Eb tuned in what?...415 or 465? Another question: if everybody was supposed to be playing at 415, why were all instruments not tuned at 415? Why were some pitched at 465, and the other French tuning at somewhere below A = 415 (I can't remember what the number is)? Apparently singers were supposed to be that flexible too... Best Regards David R -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ton Koopperson - pitch of J S B Cantatas (YouTube)
On Sep 5, 2009, at 6:07 AM, David Rastall wrote: But I don't understand: with all the transposing going on between 465, and 415, what is the outcome pitched at? When TK says, put the whole thing in Eb, and the thing is ready, my question is: Eb tuned in what?...415 or 465? They're playing in Eb at 465. The recorders are pitched at 415, playing a transposed part in F. Another question: if everybody was supposed to be playing at 415, why were all instruments not tuned at 415? Why were some pitched at 465, and the other French tuning at somewhere below A = 415 (I can't remember what the number is)? Because technology transfer in the 17th and 18th centuries was slow, and the woodwind business was a seller's market. The Germans (and, indeed, the English and Italians) were fairly quick to adopt the newly refined baroque flutes and newly developed oboes and bassoons that came out of Paris, but not so quick to learn how to build them. Thus the new instruments remained an item of international trade for a generation or so. The foreign buyers were willing to take the instruments pitched at 392 and adapt by lowering local pitch or transposing, and the Parisian makers, evidently able to sell all the instruments they wanted to sell pitched at 392, had no reason to develop instruments at the myriad local pitches of the places to which they were being exported. I'm not sure where 415 enters the picture, but the whole-tone and minor third transpositions are still with us. Modern clarinets are in Bb (whole tone low) or A (minor third low) or Eb (minor third high or sixth low, depending on your point of view), and indeed in modern bands, trumpets and cornets are in Bb, clarinets and saxophones in Bb or Eb, treble clef baritone horns in Bb, and indeed all the brass except the trombones (and tubas?) are transposing. This is partly traditional, partly because of inherited notions about what pitch the instruments sound best at, and partly so that instruments can be built in different sizes without requiring the players to learn different fingerings; a sort of wind instrument tablature. Apparently singers were supposed to be that flexible too... Well, you don't have to tell the singers -- just give them a starting note. I haven't really studied it, but I wouldn't be surprised if Bach's vocal parts tend to avoid the high and low extremes of the singers' ranges, so the parts could move up or down a tone without causing problems. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Wratislavia Cantans Festival
Dear Friends, If somebody will be in Wroclaw on 5th-20th Sept., I would like to invite to Wratislavia Cantans Festival under Paul McCreesh as artistic director. I recommend especially few concerts: on Monday (7.09.): The English Baroque Soloists, The Monteverdi Choir and Sir John Eliot Gardiner (conductor) - Georg Friedrich Händel #8211; Izrael in Egypt on Tuesday (8.09.): Andreas Scholl and Edin Karamazov - musical banquet of Robert Dowland See you soon Grzegorz GRAMY FAIR PLAY , NIE MNOŻYMY OPŁAT - Konferencje w Trójmieście http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=www.nadmorski.plsid=850 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] V. Gautier Chaconne
Dear all Earlier in the week some-one was asking about the way Claire Antonini plays the VG Chaconne. Is the issue about the way she plays it in relation to the text about her application of notes inegales? - the pratice of playing quavers in 3 time unequally - slightly lengthening (usually) the first of any pair of quavers and shortening the second. Unfortunately most of my books are in store at the moment, but I think this practice is mentioned in Mersenne in the 1630s and certainly by Hotteterre in the first decade of the 18th century (with lots of other references in-between and after). I seem to remember that Groves online has a decent article on notes inegales. Sorry if this has been covered eralier in the week but for some reason I don't seem to receive all of the postings. Best wishes Chris -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ton Koopperson - pitch of J S B Cantatas (YouTube)
On Sep 5, 2009, at 6:12 PM, howard posner wrote: For anyone interested in the historical pitch question, let me again recommend A History of Performing Pitch: The Story of 'A' by Bruce Haynes, Wasn't he the one who wrote The End Of Early Music? Good book. which contains a wealth of detail, some of it in easily digestible list form, about different pitches in different places. I've found it a useful source of information, particularly in debates over such earth-shaking issues as the Great Toy Theorbo Debate. Is that anything like the archmandora vs. octave-srung tiorbino? I can hear the historical mavens now: harrumph, hoom, well if you had ANY interest in history at ALL you'd soon realize the futility of that argument... LOL DR To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
