[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?

2009-10-26 Thread chriswilke 
Dale,

--- On Mon, 10/26/09, Dale Young dyoung5...@wowway.com wrote:

 There is the litho of the greatest
 lutenist/composer ever, Adam Falckenhagen with his lute.

I was ready to have a beer with you until this.  Its has been scientifically 
proven that Hagen is the greatest lute composer of all time.  No known photos 
of his axe, though.

 I
 had always contented myself that the draughtsman had just
 omitted all of the redundant strings for clarity. It
 clearly depicts a 13 STRING instrument.

Who knows?  We do know that advances in string making technology were just 
around the corner.  The little bitty guitar, after all, was to shed its double 
strings not too terribly long after the gallenters - and well before gut 
strings went out of fashion, c. 1950.  Maybe gut strings that sounded tolerably 
well without unison or octave doubling came earlier than we know.  If single 
string baroque luting was a genuine practice, maybe it came simply because of 
changing taste.

Chris


  



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?

2009-10-26 Thread Roland Hayes 
   What about reversing the order of the strings in the sixth course?
   That way the index or middle (melody)  hits fundamental, while the
   thumb plays a diapason?
 __

   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Roman Turovsky
   Sent: Sun 10/25/2009 6:43 PM
   To: BAROQUE-LUTE
   Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?

   I am with Dale.
   IMO it is easier to isolate radioactive isotopes than the octaves in a
   lute-course. Healthier too.
   RT
   - Original Message -
   From: Dale Young dyoung5...@wowway.com
   To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; sterling price
   spiffys84...@yahoo.com
   Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:38 PM
   Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
h'aint we just something precious then?! Life is too short.
- Original Message -
From: sterling price spiffys84...@yahoo.com
To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:32 PM
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
   
   
I still maintain that with a little practice it is quite possible to
isolate the fundamental with the index finger. I do it all the time
   in
Weiss and later music.
Sterling
   
   
   
   
- Original Message 
From: Daniel Shoskes dshos...@mac.com
To: chriswi...@yahoo.com
Cc: BAROQUE-LUTE baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Roman Turovsky
r.turov...@verizon.net
Sent: Sat, October 24, 2009 12:24:37 PM
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
   
FWIW, I've brought this question up in lessons before, suggesting
   that
a unison 6 th course would be a good idea. VERY strong opposition, I
think primarily on historical grounds, from Pat O'Brien, Bob Barto
   and
Richard Stone.
   
DS
   
On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:03 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote:
   
I believe I'll third that. I went from an octave to a unison on my
old lute but now have an octave 6th on the new lute. I'm finding it
very, very difficult to make sense of melodies on the sixth course
that must be played with the fingers when the thumb is playing a
diapason at the same time. This happens very often in the late
Weiss years and beyond. I don't know of any historical sources
mentioning the unison 6th, though.
   
Chris
   
--- On Sat, 10/24/09, Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net wrote:
   
From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
To: BAROQUE-LUTE baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 9:19 AM
I'm with Dale on this issue.
RT
   
   
- Original Message -
From: Dale Young dyoung5...@wowway.com
To: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi;
baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu;
Edward
Martin e...@gamutstrings.com
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:31 PM
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave
or no?
   
   
I still think that the 6th course is used too often as
a melody string for
that to be octave strung. When I hear the octave jump
at the 6th in a
recording, I find it annoying for anything after 1730.
Just let the basses
start at the 7th...unless you're playing that old
music...then who
cares...not much melody to interfere with anyway.
   
   
   
cranky boy d.
   
   
   
   
- Original Message -
From: Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com
To: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi;
baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:21 PM
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with
octave or no?
   
   
Hi, Arto..
   
Congratulations in finally entering the realm of
baroque lute. i
hope you find it rewarding.
   
I think you can string it however you like, using
materials which are
your favorites.
   
You are correct, in starting octaves at the 6th
course. One thing I
find the best is to have the tension of the
octaves at least as
strong as the fundamentals. There was a
practice about 20 years ago,
in which people used the octave only about 80% of
the tension of the
fundamentals, but this yielded unsatisfactory
result, in my
opinion. This was with Pyramid wound strings
and nylon octaves.
   
I usually use around 2.9 Kg of tension for the 4th
course to the 13th
course.
   
One thing to keep in mind is that if you use wound
- overspun basses
starting at the 9th course, where the swan
extension starts, you may
not like it (I do not), as the sustain is too
great. The very reason
for the added length for the lower basses is to
get a smaller
diameter string, so gut works beautifully for
those courses. For 13
course lutes with a rider on 12  13, the