Off/ Amazon forest cutdown/global climate change/ change to new crops?

[Michael Roboz]

Andrew Wellen wrote: 

  
  Sorry if you already got this. Hope it's current. If you have time... 
  please copy and sign   
  The Brazilian congress is now voting on a project that will reduce the 
  Amazon forest to 50% of its size. It will take 1 MINUTE to read this, 
  but PLEASE put your names on the list and forward this on. The area to 
  be deforested is 4 times the size of Portugal and would be mainly used for 
  agriculture and pastures for livestock. All the wood is to be sold to 
  international markets in the form of wood chips, by large multinational 
  companies. The truth is that the soil in the Amazon forest is useless 
  without the forest itself. It's quality is very acidic and the region is 
  prone to constant floods. At this time more than 160,000 square 
  kilometres deforested with the same purpose are abandoned and in the 
  process of becoming deserts. Deforestation and the subsequent processing 
  of the woodchips on this scale will also release huge amounts of carbon 
  which is currently locked up in the wood back into the atmosphere 
  worsening the problem of climate change. We just cannot let this happen. 
  Please copy the text into a 'new email', put your complete name in the 
  list below and send to everyone you know. 
  DON'T JUST FORWARD IT THOUGH AS IT WILL THEN END UP WITH ROWS AND ROWS 
  of >'s. 
  If you are the 500th person to sign please send a copy to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
  br  

  Thank you for your help 
  01 - Fernanda de Souza Saviolo - Rio de Janeiro - RJ 02 - Nara Maria de 
  Souza - Rio de Janeiro - RJ - 03 - Julio Cesar Fraga Viana - Rio de 
  Janeiro - RJ- 04 - Monica Grotkowsky Brotto -Sao Paulo - SP - 05 - 
  Mauricio Grotkowsky Brotto - Sao Paulo - 06 - Ricardo A.Corrallo - SP 
  07 - Sunny Jonathan - SP 08 - Leonardo Larsen Rocha - SP 09 - Evandro 
  Sestrem - 10 - Marco Aurlio Wehrmeister - Blumenau - SP 11 - Angela 
  Maria Gonalves - Blumenau -SP 12 - Alessandra Bernardino- Blumenau - 
  SP 13 - Pedro Carstens Penfold - Rio de Janeiro - RJ - 14 - Annelena 
  Porto Delgado - S*o Paulo - 15 - Erica Couto -S*o Paulo - 16 - Elaine 
  Couto- S*o Paulo - SP 17 - Tatiana de Almeida Voivodic - S*o Paulo 18 
  - Solange B Furlanetto - S*o Paulo / SP 19 - Marcos deSouza Mello - S*o 
  Paulo / SP 20 - Eliane Santiago - S*o Paulo/ SP 21 - Francisca J. 
  Bezerra Alves Ara*jo - S*o Paulo /SP 22 - Carlos Alberto Dantas Junior 
  - Rio de Janeiro /RJ 23 - Daniel Rodrigues da Cruz - Rio de Janeiro / 
  RJ 24 - Gabriella Gaida - Rio de Janeiro - RJ 25 - Ceclia Silva 
  Teixeira Pinto - RJ - 03/06/75 26 - Tania Santos Miguel 27 - Celso 
  Henrique Diniz Valente de Figueiredo -RJ 28 - Marcelo Lopes Rheingantz 
  - Rio de Janeiro - RJ 29 - Rodrigo Tassinari de Oliveira - Rio de 
  Janeiro - RJ 30 - Andr Lobato Pinheiro - Rio deJaneiro - RJ 31 - 
  Ismael dos Santos 
  Silva - RJ - 32 - Gustavo Alexandre Caetano Correa - RJ - 33 - Juana 
  Varella Barca de Amorim - Rio de Janeiro 34 - Nara Faria Silva Rio de 
  Janeiro -RJ- 35 - Isabella Jaggi S*oPaulo- SP - 36 - Diana de Andrade 
  Freitas - Rio de Janeiro -RJ 37 - Karina Dourado - S*o Paulo - 38 - 
  Pablo Genuncio Garcia - Rio de Janeiro - 39 - Fabola Morais de Lucca - 
  S*o Paulo - 40 - Alexei Morais de Lucca - S*o Paulo - SP - 41 - Renata 
  Regina Roxo - S*o Paulo - SP - 42 - Fernanda Teixeira - S*o Paulo - SP 
  - 43 - Patricia Freitas - S*o Paulo - SP 44 - Cintia Regina K*rner 
  -Alemanha - DE - 45 - Wolfgang K*rner - Alemanha - DE 46 - Roseani 
  Vieira Rocha - San Francisco - CA 47 - Angela 
  Ichimura - S*o Paulo - SP 48 - Assunta Viola - Sao Paulo - SP 50 - 
  Marina Amaral - Alemanha - DE 51 - Fabian Rodrigues Caetano - Sao 
  Paulo - SP - 52 - Luciana Cabrera- Santa Barbara- Ca 53 - Andrea 
  Torres- Lahaina, Hawaii 54 - Carla Duarte- New York, NY 55 - Sergio 
  Goes - New York, NY 56 - Itaal Shur - New York, NY 57 - Hiroyoku 
  Sanada-New York, NY, US 58 - Marianne Ebert-new york, NY, US 59 - 
  Gloriana M. Calhoun - New York, NY 60 - Roger Jazilek - New York, NY 
  61 - Cheryl To - New York, NY 62 - Judy Mercer - Paris, France 63 - 
  Evelyne Pouget- Woodstock, NY 64 - Hera-Woodstock, NY 65 - Nicos Peonides 
  - Cyprus - New York NY 66 - Fiona Cousins - New York, NY 67 - Alistair 
  Millington - London, UK 68 - Edgar Craggs - Bristol, UK 69 - Chris 
  Hastie - Nottingham, UK 70 - Adam Barley - Bristol, UK 71 - Dawn Morgan 
  - Bristol, UK 72 - Lottie Berthoud - Bristol, UK 73 - Julia Simnett - 
  Bristol, UK 74 - Lindsey Colbourne - Bath, UK 75 - Wendy Lawton - 
  Bath, UK 76 - James Friel - Birmingham, UK 77 - Sylvia Magyar - 
  Budapest, Hungary 78 - Danco 
  Uzunov - Budapest Hungary 79 - Vladimir Jurukovski - New York, USA 80 - 
  Laste Stojanovski - Auckland, New Zealand 81 - Katerina Rusevska - 
  Skopje, Macedonia 82 - Snezana Pesic -Kragujevac, Yugoslavia 83 - 
  Sladjan Pavlovic - Beograd, Yugoslavia 84 -

Re: Political posts

[Lance Howard]

I valued the  posts so much that I subscribed - on my other
computer, on campus, where I have to teach World Geography.  I don't see
them as being "political" any more than AP or CNN are in their own ways, but
as offering alternative viewpoints and covering stories and asking questions
outside the mainstream.  Nevertheless, I never get around to reading half of
them, and sometimes I worry that they do arouse in me too much of a sense of
what and who are WRONG with the world.  And although Jane rightly suggests
we use them to focus our prayers and projections of peace, I often find
myself feeling powerless and hopeless.


- Original Message -
From: "Pam DeTray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: Political posts


> I can't help but think of the difference between conventional and
wholistic medicine here. Conventional looks at and treats a sick body part,
never mind what else is going on in the patient's life. Problem is, the
treatment can affect the patient's whole body and life, and extend to
others' lives also.
> Pam
>
> From: Essie Hull <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > that perspective.  The belief and practice that parts of us can be
> > effectively dealt with in isolation from the whole of us, create much of
> > the dysfunction, dispair and dis-ease of  today's world.
> --
>
> ___
> Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Email.com
> http://www.email.com/?sr=signup
>

Re: Testing BD preps

[Lloyd Charles]

To Cheryl and all Interested
Most of you will probably disagree with me but please read this and think
about it before forming your opinions

What is to be the end purpose of this testing ??
Elaine's tests measure and categorise critters better than anyone else can
do
THEY DO NOT AND CAN NOT MEASURE THE ENERGETICS (forces if you like)

So a comparison test of well made BD compost is valid. Yes!

If you test, stirred 500 or barrel compost, for CRITTERS per unit volume you
SHOULD EXPECT to get a very low reading compared to a good compost tea. Why
do this??

On the other hand if the preps are going to be used as a basis for brewing
tea (and I believe good preps would perform superbly ) Play the game to
Elaine's rules - use 500 and BC as a feed stock - in the flow forms - and
feed it just as she would recommend - done right you will probably make the
best compost tea she ever saw.

There is far far more to steiners remedies than microbial innoculation and
we should not get too hung up on SFI test numbers UNLESS they are relevant
to the end purpose which is compost or compost teas

My thoughts anyway
Lloyd Charles
>
> Yes, we have a SFI lab in Lismore, about 3 hours north of me in NSW.
> >
> > If I understand this correctly, you had the test done on the physical
> > 'out of the box' BD500. Do you have plans to test stirred 500?
> >
> Yes, it was physical out of the box BD 500, (unstirred, it is tested like
> compost)
> in this case it was about 5 years old, had been passed on from one of our
> elder BD practitioners who sold his wheat farm. The new guy was wanting to
> know if it was still ok to use!! He then suggested that we should get some
> newer BD 500 tested, so we have.
> Yes, we are planning on getting some stirred 500 plus Horn Clay and CPP
> (Barrel Compost,) as this is what we tell most of our farmers to put out
as
> one spray. Then we should get some BD 501 plus 508 stirred and done as
well
> !
>
> Not that we see the fungal and bacterial content as all that BD is about -
> we know that what is really happening is bringing in the forces to
stimulate
> the activity in the soil. But SFI tests are not able to quantify that as
> yet.!!  But it helps the more rational minds to cope and helps them see
that
> Biodynamics already has the answers. Proof!
>
> Later this year we are bringing Dr Fritz Balzer from Germany to our AGM
and
> National BD Conference in August. He specialises is BD soil testing, plus
> sensitive crystalisation - a method of showing life forces in BD food and
> products - so it will be interesting to work with both methods and
> approaches to Biodynamics.
>
> > >We are awaiting the final bacterial biomass count to see what
> > >protozoa  are there.
> > >
> > >Maybe you could add 500 to your brew!!
> >
> >
> > I saw Elaine's flowform report, but couldn't make much of it. Do you
> > know what sort of pump was being used? The make/model of the forms?
> > What was being used as a compost basket? And, a new question, why the
> > guy trialing it through the basket should have been removed earlier?
>
> Alan,
> the pump was  a Grundfos vortex submersible  pump AP 12.40.06 (Which takes
> 12ml particles - "it can pump rocks!" says Phil Sedgman our Flowform man)
> Flowform is the Vortex flowform, 3 big forms, made of fibreglass, for
> mobility. You can see Phils flowforms on his website -
> www.livingwaterflowformsaustralia.com
>
> The guy was using a laundry basket (plastic mesh about arms in oval shape
> size ) with cloth holding the vermicompost. He placed it under the last
> flowform as the water poured into the pool at the bottom.  He left it
there
> for 8 hours - or where you see the lowest point of O2, and it apparently
was
> building up so many bacteria, that it was taking all the O2 supply. Once
he
> removed the basket and vermicompost, the O2 levels could catch up with the
> bacteria growth. What they were so excited about was that the flowform was
> able to get the O2 levels up in 8 hours when the the usual tea brewers
took
> 16 hours. (Of course)
> They plan to do some more tests in a wek or two , and we will also visit
> Phils to do some 500, Horn clay and CPP stiring for testing. Will probably
> do some for one hour - as per our usual strring time, and then whilst
> testing with an O2 meter,see what happens to the brew then and how long it
> needs. Then we can drop in the bottles to SFI nearby. We are also very
keen
> to test the fuzzy brew that we have made up since the trip to India - I am
> still getting fungi brewing on top after two weeks. All exciting things
> happening.
> When are you getting your lot done at SFI?
> I thought it would be good to do it in different countries to see if there
> was any differences.
> Cheers
> Cheryl.
>
>

Re: Testing Tea Locally

[Deborah Byron]

Its also pretty obvious that if fruit unwashed during processing is
picked by farm laborers living without decent sanitation, the
contamination could very well have come from their hands.  Another
"invisible" issue that the large producers do not want to discuss.

Deborah

Re: Testing Tea Locally

[Bonnie York]

Hello friends,

On Saturday, April 27, 2002, at 05:41 PM, Gil Robertson wrote:

> We have had two serious cases of bacterial poisoning that has been 
> traced back to
> Organic growers.

Have they identified exactly what  bacteria it was?


>  In some parts of Oz, as good as no rain may fall during the whole
> time some salad vegetables are in the garden. Should we make sure these 
> are given
> one or more over head waterings, between applying compost tea and 
> harvest?

I just got back from a fantastic seminar given by Elaine Ingham.  She 
showed slides of a properly inoculated leaf. The idea is that there is 
full coverage of the leaf surface so that there is no place for 
pathogenic bacteria or fungus to set foot. The creatures in the compost 
tea glue themselves to the surface of the leaf within just several hours 
of spraying. From my understanding this should not just wash off.

If we get another chance to ask her questions this might be one to check 
on.

The bacteria we are attempting to culture should not be harmful in the 
human gut. And of course there are some brave friends, in Australia 
especially, whom are drinking compost tea and swear by its health 
effects.

The problem is if the compost tea was one that had gone anaerobic and 
they cultured e-coli or one of several other nasties that will make 
folks very sick.  So it stands that they need to know what kind of 
bacteria it was that caused problems.

There are a number of folks making stuff that they claim is compost tea 
and what they may be doing is culturing bad bacteria.

I would also watch out for sabotage by those who stand to lose a lot of 
money if more people go to organic farming methods.  It appears that 
someone is spreading dis-information about Elaine, attempting to 
discredit her.

I missed this earlier, but Allan wrote:

Are there some tests that ag universities can or would do on compost
>> teas that would give a farmer some feed back on how well his brewing
>> is going?
One thing I'm going to be doing with my compost tea is checking it for 
the ph level. The anaerobic substances go way acidic; about 2 or 2.5 .  
This would give me another tool in making sure my brewing is getting the 
right bugs cultured.

The other question Allan asked was answered by Elaine at the seminar.

>>
>> How expensive is equipment like the Oxygen sensors

About $400


>> I, for one, really crave immediate feedback on how tea is progressing
>> and when it is as 'brewed' as it's going to get.
Elaine says that your best tool is at hand; your nose.

We also got a chance to peer through the $25,000 microscope at some 
freshly brewed compost tea.

Saw a beautiful, healthy fungus spore sending out its newly sprouted 
hyphae. It was a baby fungus, just developing as we watched.

It was as exciting as seeing a planet through a telescope for the first 
time. Thrilling!

Elaine's presentation was splendid and I learned a lot.

Bonnie

Fwd: Fw: Ifgene conference

[bdnow]

>
>
>Genetic Engineering and the Intrinsic Value and Integrity
>of Animals and Plants
>
>Wednesday 18th to Saturday 21st September 2002
>Royal Botanic Garden, Edinburgh, UK
>
>Speakers:
>
>*Holmes Rolston III, Environmental Ethicist, Department of Philosophy,
>Colorado State University
>*Donald Bruce, Church of Scotland Science Religion & Technology Project
>*Craig Holdrege, Contextual Biologist, The Nature Institute, New York
>*Howard Davies, Theme Leader "Genes to Products" Scottish Crop Research
>Institute, Dundee
>*Ruth Richter, Plant Morphologist, Naturwissenschaftliche Sektion,
>Goetheanum, Switzerland
>*Henk Verhoog, Bioethicist, Louis Bolk Instituut, Netherlands
>*Harry Griffin, Assistant Director (Science), Roslin Institute, Edinburgh
>*Timothy Brink, Development Manager, Demeter Standards UK
>*Mike Radford, Animal Welfare Lawyer, Department of Law, Aberdeen
>University
>*Christina Henatsch, Biodynamic Plant Breeder, Kultursaat, Germany
>*Ton Baars, Senior Scientist, Animal Husbandry, Louis Bolk Institute,
>Netherlands
>*Clive Spash, Socio-economist, The Macaulay Institute, Aberdeen  
>*Bruce Whitelaw, Molecular Geneticist, Roslin Institute, Edinburgh
>*Johannes Wirz, Contextual Biologist, Naturwissenschaftliche Sektion,
>Goetheanum, Switzerland
>
>Workshop concept and aims
>
>For more than two decades public discussion of genetic engineering has
>been
>dominated by risk-benefit considerations. Arguments about its usefulness
>or
>its dangers for humans are traded even when the dialogue partners are
>starting from a stance which is already in principle for or against
>genetic
>engineering. Where do the living beings which are the focus of this
>technology stand in all this? To help us answer this question we shall
>place them at the centre of our workshop.
>
>Intrinsic value, the good of its own, of a creature is gaining
>recognition
>in law. Indeed the concept of the dignity of creation is incorporated in
>the Swiss constitution. In this conference we shall consider both plants
>and animals. Whilst giving moral consideration to plants seems
>controversial, the apparent closeness to humans of animals through their
>sentience and consciousness may make it easier for us to intuit their
>intrinsic value and to recognise their creature interests. Yet we exploit
>them just the same. Indeed, we are dependent on them for their products
>and
>the range of that dependence could be greatly extended by what genetic
>engineering already has to offer. How can we sharpen our awareness for
>their essential nature so that in evaluating the technology we guard
>against violations of their integrity? We will address this question
>helped
>by practical observation of plant and animal phenomena guided by
>scientists
>from several countries.
>
>We will approach the subject from the most varied angles by hearing
>presentations from ethicists, people engaged in plant and animal breeding
>and husbandry, molecular geneticists, an animal welfare lawyer, a
>socio-economist and biologists specialising in the context of life. In
>panel, plenum and breakout discussions we will deepen and challenge this
>wealth of experience and by drawing on the insights we come to during the
>workshop we will try to visualise perspectives and limitations of shaping
>the heritable constitution of animals and plants.
>
>It can be argued that overlooking aspects intrinsic to farm animals has
>led
>to the series of crises in UK agriculture over the past decade. This may
>be
>more than a hint to us that conceptually reducing animals to
>bioproduction
>mechanisms which can be optimised at the molecular level needs replacing
>by
>a science capable of understanding not only molecular and cellular form
>and
>function but also organismic and aesthetic qualities. This issue, one not
>just of epistemology but of actual laboratory experience, will be central
>to our discussions.
>
>Plant and Animal: Guided Observation Sessions
>
>Recognising the intrinsic value and integrity of living beings is greatly
>helped by direct observation. And observation skills can be schooled so
>to
>as to make this faculty of recognition all the more acute. The 2-hour
>sessions in the afternoons of 19th and 20th September will be led by
>scientists from UK, Netherlands, Switzerland and USA.
>
>Breakout Workshops 19th & 20th September, 4.30-6.00 p.m.
>
>Discussion in much smaller groups to deepen some of the plenum themes and
>add others which are relevant. Led by speakers and other contributors
>attending the event.
>
>Panel Discussion, Friday 20th September, 7.30 p.m.
>
>Open to visitors attending for the evening. Led by panelists chosen from
>the plenum speakers. Contributions from the floor.
>
>Plenum Discussions
>
>Ifgene aims to provide an opportunity for developing viewpoints through
>dialogue. We have therefore scheduled a relatively large amount of time
>for
>this, including an hour of discussion on the closing day. The recent
>emergence of controversy about biotechno

Fwd: Fw: Kollerstrom & Staudenmaier article

[Allan Balliett]

>- Forwarded Message -
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:47:09 -0700
>Subject: Kollerstrom & Staudenmaier article
>
>I hope I this hasn't been pointed out already, but I just found that 
>the Kollerstrom & Staudenmaier article on lunar-sidereal rhythms can 
>be found on Nicholas Kollerstrom's Planting by the Moon web pages at 
>the following URL:
>
>http://www.astro3.demon.co.uk/evidence.htm
>___
>Barry Lia \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ Seattle WA

Re: compost tea

[Gil Robertson]

Hi! Dave,
I understand that in each case it was salmonella. I do not understand how the build
up came about. My information came from a talk by a BD/ Organic Inspector, who was
pointing out that Organic is not necessarily healthy. His message was one of the
need to practice care with matters such as minimizing soil to produce transfer of
organisms. He said that in Australia, a disproportional high percentage of food
poisoning is traced back to organic producers. While not advocating chemicals, he
was calling for care.

Gil

Dave Robison wrote:

> Gil--
> I'm not a biologist but I don't fully understand the cases you described.
>
> >We have had two serious cases of bacterial poisoning that has been traced
> >back to
> >Organic growers.
> >
> >The first concerned orange juice made from a mixture of organic and
> >conventional
> >fruit. Many people were poisoned and a major national brand nearly ruined
> >by it.
> >When it was traced back to the grower, it was an organic grower, who was using
> >irrigation in an area with almost no rainfall and thus the folia spray had not
> >washed off the fruit when it was processed, resulting in the bacteria getting
> >into the fresh juice. (The whole orange is crushed, so anything on the
> >skin can
> >be mixed in with the juice.)
>
> If there's no rain and presumably not fungal disease on the tree, why spray
> a foliar application? Is it supposed to be foliar fertilizer? Is it
> supposed to provide longer shelf life for the fruit?
> What kind of bacteria would make people sick? Salmonella? E. coli? Were
> these present in the compost? Or the tea? My expectation is that well made
> compost should not have such bacteria present. Nor should properly aerobic tea.
>
> >The other was only a few days ago and from the early report it seems to be
> >very
> >high bacteria counts in salad vegetables. This occurred in a very up market
> >establishment and may cause them to stop using organic product.
>
> What kind of bacteria? I can't imagine that there would be a problem unless
> it was something like salmonella. Was such a bacteria coming from compost?
> Or was it raw manure? As far as I know, the cases we had of dangerous E.
> coli came from raw manure, in some cases from cows ranging in the orchard
> and windfall fruit being harvested from the ground.
> This is an important issue because the scare factor from these cases
> resulted in the gov't developing completely unrealistic regulations
> regarding compost turning etc.
>
> ==
> Dave Robison

Re: Political posts - PLEASE NO MORE!

[Boyer Patrick]

Le Samedi 27 Avril 2002 23:18, vous avez écrit :
> I disagree with political posts here on the BD list only.  I come here for
> BD info and encouragement.  If people what BD mixed with politics how about
> starting a "Spiritual Ag and geopolitics" list.
>
> My main gripe is that I only have time to come to this BD dedicated email
> address about once or twice a week and my mail box is crammed with emails
> many of which are political and others of which are copies of copies of
> copies of copies of voluminous emails that are in turn copies of OFF
> articles. (Besides too many of the political views are in my opinion
> twisted leftist crap which would be best used in making a fine compost
> pile.)
>
> The warrior,
> Doug
hello everybody
I agree with Doug
A+
PB

Re: Bump one, bump two

[SBruno75]

Birchmier is really the best backpack sprayer.  It is Swiss and I think it 
was made for the bd preparations.  The nozzling and the way it is built is 
perfect for preps...The ''Floral'' model is three gallons while the 
''senior'' is five gallons.  SStorch

compost tea

[Dave Robison]

Gil--
I'm not a biologist but I don't fully understand the cases you described.

>We have had two serious cases of bacterial poisoning that has been traced 
>back to
>Organic growers.
>
>The first concerned orange juice made from a mixture of organic and 
>conventional
>fruit. Many people were poisoned and a major national brand nearly ruined 
>by it.
>When it was traced back to the grower, it was an organic grower, who was using
>irrigation in an area with almost no rainfall and thus the folia spray had not
>washed off the fruit when it was processed, resulting in the bacteria getting
>into the fresh juice. (The whole orange is crushed, so anything on the 
>skin can
>be mixed in with the juice.)

If there's no rain and presumably not fungal disease on the tree, why spray 
a foliar application? Is it supposed to be foliar fertilizer? Is it 
supposed to provide longer shelf life for the fruit?
What kind of bacteria would make people sick? Salmonella? E. coli? Were 
these present in the compost? Or the tea? My expectation is that well made 
compost should not have such bacteria present. Nor should properly aerobic tea.

>The other was only a few days ago and from the early report it seems to be 
>very
>high bacteria counts in salad vegetables. This occurred in a very up market
>establishment and may cause them to stop using organic product.

What kind of bacteria? I can't imagine that there would be a problem unless 
it was something like salmonella. Was such a bacteria coming from compost? 
Or was it raw manure? As far as I know, the cases we had of dangerous E. 
coli came from raw manure, in some cases from cows ranging in the orchard 
and windfall fruit being harvested from the ground.
This is an important issue because the scare factor from these cases 
resulted in the gov't developing completely unrealistic regulations 
regarding compost turning etc.


==
Dave Robison

Re: Mixing Politics with Agriculture

[Rural Center for Responsible Living]

Good post Allan. I would like to add that the battle between good and bad or
more accurately consciousness/freedom and control/oppression has been going
on for eons, yet it is not either of these forces that dictate the direction
of humanity but rather the masses that are too apathetic to act. Yesterday I
read about the new farm bill they're working on. It gives up to $380,000
each to a minute handful of mega farms. (Kentucky alone has given over
$250,000,000 to big chicken in the state, that equates to $30,000 for every
certified organic farm in the US.) Politics and agriculture are not separate
at all but rather just a part of the fertility program of the Earth. Oddly
enough (having said that) I have actually backed out of the politically
active game substantially and am now focusing on nature awareness, and yet
that is no different. We work to make our farms whole, and yet our farms
can't be whole until they are supported by and are a part of the out-lying
world, and since this list is scattered throughout the world, the healing of
our farms is the healing of the planet/politics/fear.

In Love and Light,
Mr. Chris


> >There is a "war" with the likes of Archer-Daniels-Midland, Monsanto,
> >MacDonalds, etc.., that must, should and will be fought anywhere,
> >anyhow, and any time.
>
>
> There is a war between those who say there is a war and those who say
> there isn't. -L. Cohen
>
> One of the  major reasons that BD Now! exists is to help awaken those
> who have not become aware through their own efforts that there is a
> war.

OFF: Crap and political opinions

[Anthony Nelson-Smith]

I'm not sure whether I'm one of the purveyors of 
'leftist crap' or not, but it might be worth mentioning that, some years ago, I 
would without hesitation have described everything covered by this forum as 
crap.  BDNow didn't convert me from this view, - I reached it with help 
from my wife, reading and a short course at Emerson College -  but it 
has filled out my understanding of many issues enormously.
I'm reassured that the majority who have 
commented on 'political postings' have found them interesting and don't want 
them abolished.
My views on the situation in Israel/Palestine are 
coloured by the fact that I've been to numerous Middle Eastern countries and 
have supervised the work of many Arab postgrads (although I've known and liked 
many Jewish people, not necessarily Zionists, however).  To take an extreme 
example, Saddam Hussein is now represented to us as a monster (let's 
remember that he was a valued ally only a few years ago);  but one of my 
Iraqi students came from a peasant family.  Thanks to the Ba'athist regime, 
he was well educated, got a degree at a local university, was funded to come to 
Britain for his doctorate and now holds a good position in a research 
institution back in Iraq (as a marine biologist, not a developer of 
weapons).  His opinion of Saddam might be slightly different from 
ours.  If the excerpt from Will Hutton's new book 'The World We're In' 
(quoted in my Sunday newspaper) is to be believed, it would not now be possible 
for an equivalent US American to achieve this.  What might my Iraqi 
conclude from this comparison 
?   Tony 
N-S.

Re: Bump one, bump two

[Wayne and Sharon McEachern]

Hi  Pam!

Pam DeTray wrote:

> Now it's unclear if I really will live at this place. Apparently the house has some 
>qi problems, and I'm not sure I have the wherewithal to deal with that at this point 
>in my life. However I will be involved in bringing the land into a more fruitful, 
>tended state.
>
> Pam
>

Do you care to elaborate on the condition of the qi at the farm you are living on?  
This could be an important discussion to the list as the energetics of everyone's home 
/ farm has far more relevance to one being able to function effectively than most 
realize.

And, I can be relatively certain that there isn't anything negative energetically  in 
nature which can't be overcome relatively easy.  I suppose that the greater issue is 
-- upon resolving the issue regarding qi -- would you still wish to have this farm as 
your home?

Look forward to hearing from you...

Best!

Wayne
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Sharon and Wayne McEachern

"Expressing the Light"

http://www.ExpressingTheLight.com

"A Ministry Dedicated to the Divine Process"

and

"Light Expression Essences"

http://www.LightExpression.com

"A Divine Program for Healing and Transformation"

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Re: Testing Tea Locally

[D]

Hi All,
My name is Daniel, I have a small farm in NW Washington.  I was at a
conference with Elaine Ingham yesterday.

She said you can get an oxygen sensor from Grainger for $400.  I think her
E-zine also lists a source for a less expensive one.

Elaine also indicated that if the oxygen levels in tea are kept above 6
parts per million and you are using good compost and a good brewer that you
should always have good tea and no pathogen problems.  They are going to be
doing more testing with the oxygen levels but it looks promising that people
will be able to test their tea by monitoring oxygen levels.

Does anyone have expierence cleaning bio-film from a flow form after making
compost tea or preps?

Thanks
Daniel
- Original Message -
From: "Gil Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: Testing Tea Locally


> Hi! Allan,
>
> I have a question on the use of compost tea as a folia spray.
>
> We have had two serious cases of bacterial poisoning that has been traced
back to
> Organic growers.
>
> The first concerned orange juice made from a mixture of organic and
conventional
> fruit. Many people were poisoned and a major national brand nearly ruined
by it.
> When it was traced back to the grower, it was an organic grower, who was
using
> irrigation in an area with almost no rainfall and thus the folia spray had
not
> washed off the fruit when it was processed, resulting in the bacteria
getting
> into the fresh juice. (The whole orange is crushed, so anything on the
skin can
> be mixed in with the juice.)
>
> The other was only a few days ago and from the early report it seems to be
very
> high bacteria counts in salad vegetables. This occurred in a very up
market
> establishment and may cause them to stop using organic product.
>
> Is there a protocol for with holding and possibly seeing that there is
some over
> head watering, particularly for those in areas with little or no rain
during the
> growing period? In some parts of Oz, as good as no rain may fall during
the whole
> time some salad vegetables are in the garden. Should we make sure these
are given
> one or more over head waterings, between applying compost tea and harvest?
>
> Allan Balliett wrote:
>
> > Are there some tests that ag univeristies can or would do on compost
> > teas that would give a farmer some feed back on how well his brewing
> > is going?
> >
> > How expensive is equipment like the Oxygen sensors that Cheryl has
mentioned.
> >
> > I, for one, really crave immediate feedback on how tea is progressing
> > and when it is as 'brewed' as it's going to get.
> >
> > I realize that none of these suggestions are a replacement for
> > regular testing at SFI.
> >
> > -Allan
>
>

OFF or Rel: Kuan Yin

[jsherry]

KUAN YIN
Avalokitesvara Boddhisattva



By Lin Sen-shou
Often seen alone or next to a statue of Amitabha Buddha, Avalokitesvara
Bodhisattva--in Chinese also known as Kuan Yin, the Goddess of Mercy--is the
most popular and most venerated Buddhist figure besides Amitabha Buddha and
Sakyamuni Buddha. A popular Chinese saying illustrates this aspect:
"Everyone knows how to chant Amitabha Buddha, and every household worships
Kuan Yin."

Why is this bodhisattva popular in so many Chinese families? It may be
because Kuan Yin is represented as a female with an appearance that embraces
the qualities of compassion and motherly love. In addition, because many
Buddhist scriptures state that one can invoke Kuan Yin's assistance by
simply calling out her name, people feel that this bodhisattva is very
approachable.

According to the Huayen Sutra (Buddha-vatamsaka-mahavaipulya Sutra), Kuan
Yin uses all kinds of ways to attract people: she makes gifts, uses words of
love, and transforms herself into persons like those that she deals with.
The "Universal Gateway" chapter in the Lotus Sutra lists thirty-two typical
forms in which Kuan Yin may appear. For instance, if a boy or girl is about
to gain some enlightenment, Kuan Yin transforms herself into a boy or a girl
to teach the child. If a monk is about to attain some enlightenment, Kuan
Yin transforms herself into a monk. In short, she can appear as a monk, a
nun, a king, a minister, a celestial being, or a normal person like you and
me. The purpose of such transformations is to make people feel close to her
and willing to listen to her words.

"I am cultivating this method of great compassion and hope to save all
living beings," Kuan Yin said. "Any living being who calls my name or sees
me will be free from all fear and danger. I will activate that being's
spiritual awareness and maintain it forever."

Sakyamuni Buddha confirmed Kuan Yin's vow: "If a suffering being hears the
name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva and earnestly calls out to the
bodhisattva, Avalokitesvara will hear the call and redeem that being from
his suffering" ("Universal Gateway," Lotus Sutra).

In other words, this bodhisattva's main attraction for people lies in her
efforts to eliminate suffering and to make people live in peace and harmony.
This kind of immediate benefit and the ability to receive protection or help
simply by calling the bodhisattva's name, similar to children receiving an
instant reply when calling their mother, have contributed to Kuan Yin's
great popularity.

Re: Testing Tea Locally

[Gil Robertson]

Hi! Allan,

I have a question on the use of compost tea as a folia spray.

We have had two serious cases of bacterial poisoning that has been traced back to
Organic growers.

The first concerned orange juice made from a mixture of organic and conventional
fruit. Many people were poisoned and a major national brand nearly ruined by it.
When it was traced back to the grower, it was an organic grower, who was using
irrigation in an area with almost no rainfall and thus the folia spray had not
washed off the fruit when it was processed, resulting in the bacteria getting
into the fresh juice. (The whole orange is crushed, so anything on the skin can
be mixed in with the juice.)

The other was only a few days ago and from the early report it seems to be very
high bacteria counts in salad vegetables. This occurred in a very up market
establishment and may cause them to stop using organic product.

Is there a protocol for with holding and possibly seeing that there is some over
head watering, particularly for those in areas with little or no rain during the
growing period? In some parts of Oz, as good as no rain may fall during the whole
time some salad vegetables are in the garden. Should we make sure these are given
one or more over head waterings, between applying compost tea and harvest?

Allan Balliett wrote:

> Are there some tests that ag univeristies can or would do on compost
> teas that would give a farmer some feed back on how well his brewing
> is going?
>
> How expensive is equipment like the Oxygen sensors that Cheryl has mentioned.
>
> I, for one, really crave immediate feedback on how tea is progressing
> and when it is as 'brewed' as it's going to get.
>
> I realize that none of these suggestions are a replacement for
> regular testing at SFI.
>
> -Allan

Re: Mixing Politics with Agriculture

[Gil Robertson]

Allan Balliett wrote:  I thank Gil for bringing this conversation to the
fore.

I thank you, Allan, but as I recall, I did not bring it forward, but in
each case posted support for some one else who had a problem with it. One
of my fellow Australians called me a cranky old bugger, with which I have
no argument. I am heavily involved in Politics, just as I am in healing;
environmentally friendly housing; permaculture and renewable energy, but
do not take my interests from one list to another.

Gil

Testing Tea Locally

[Allan Balliett]

Are there some tests that ag univeristies can or would do on compost 
teas that would give a farmer some feed back on how well his brewing 
is going?

How expensive is equipment like the Oxygen sensors that Cheryl has mentioned.

I, for one, really crave immediate feedback on how tea is progressing 
and when it is as 'brewed' as it's going to get.

I realize that none of these suggestions are a replacement for 
regular testing at SFI.

-Allan

Re: First Tea Analysis Results

[Allan Balliett]

One of the early issues of compost tea brewing was compaction that 
occurs within the compost tea bag. This is commonly solved by 
inserting and additional aeration nozzle into the tea bag itself. 
This physically pushes the compost away from compaction and provides 
direct aeration. I'm very interested in hearing experiences contrary 
to this and in hearing from Dan, who, as I understand it, uses this 
method.

-Allan



>Dan, Cheryl, Laura and all--
>
>Regarding the compost tea brewing---
>When using the paint strainers as the basket for my
>vermicompost, I notice that the bag fills up with a
>sort of film after about 12-15 hours.  Then the water
>won't go through and the bag starts leaking out the
>top( or exploding in one instance).  At this point, do
>you remove the bag and just let the tea brew on its
>own for the rest of the brewing time?
>
>Dan--did your tea recipe that you had tested by SFI
>include any horsetail or other plant extracts?
>
>Thanks, Dorothy

Re: Mixing Politics with Agriculture

[Allan Balliett]

>There is a "war" with the likes of Archer-Daniels-Midland, Monsanto,
>MacDonalds, etc.., that must, should and will be fought anywhere, 
>anyhow, and any time.


There is a war between those who say there is a war and those who say 
there isn't. -L. Cohen

One of the  major reasons that BD Now! exists is to help awaken those 
who have not become aware through their own efforts that there is a 
war.

That sounds like a conspiracy theory -Source: unknown, but commonly 
heard in the feed lots

Joel Salatin spoke  at Sally Fallon's wonderful conference yesterday. 
Joel has evolved much politically over the years, but in very 
measured ways. As you probably know, Joel is from a very conservative 
background and received his formal education at a school for 
evengelists. Joel said yesterday that he is Right-to Life but that he 
cannot understand how other Right-to-Lifers can push for babies being 
born but have no concern that they are being fed substances that do 
not support life after they are born. He also said that agriculture, 
politics, economics and religion are totally intertwined and that we 
who are working to create a food system of quality for local 
neighborhoods must never forget that. To forget, or to overlook, how 
each of these area affects the others is to be guilty of the same 
sort of fractionaliation that the big agriculture people have already 
brought to agriculture. As natural farmers who care about our 
families, our neighbors, our land, our animals, and the earth we all 
live on and within, we must make every effort to remain holistic in 
our world view. It is only when we attempt to use biodynamics as 
strictly a set of tools towards an economic end that resentments 
about how big the considerations of biodynamics are become an issue. 
I, for one, do not feel that the techniques of biodynamic can be 
separated from biodynamics place in the world.

That said, I have another consideration about many posts about the 
mid-east that have been dropped on BD Now! in recent weeks. 
Insightful analysts of the New World Order like Richard K. Moore have 
pointed out that what we know about anything outside of our immediate 
sensory experience is at the will of those in Power. The media is the 
bread and their circus of the governed. Be it O.J., Billy Blowjob, 
Israel and Palenstine, or Robert Blake, there will be a feisty show 
in the center ring while the boys in power are sneaking elephants out 
under the back wall of the tent. We have a government that has 
usurped an unbelievable amount of power in the past year. In the U.S. 
we really have to become conscious that we accepted a tastey little 
coup at the last election and just took it in stride. We have a 
government that has overrun soveriegn nations and is actually listing 
the next nations to be overrun. We have a government that just put a 
puppet into power in a South American country, only to have him 
displaced through an outbreak of democracy in that country. (Bless 
those people for their passion!)

My prayer is that we do not let a tempest in a teapot take our eye 
off the ball, that we don't fall at each other's throats or threaten 
the life of this discussion list because of our emotions about events 
that do not have the relevance or the immediacy of other events that 
have and will affect us all more powerfully in the near future. (I 
most certainly am not making discussing Pam's new farm, for example, 
less important than saving the world from fascism. These efforts need 
to go hand-in-hand, or all is lost.)

Mark Purdey spoke at Sally's conference. Mark's research into mad cow 
disease demonstrates, if anything, the incredible collusion there is 
between university science, big business, government and the media. A 
case in point: a scientist discovered an important correlation 
between prion problems and environmental conditions. The day he made 
his announcement, the British press did not carry that story, they 
instead carried a headline story in which someone without credentials 
put forward a thoery that mad cow disease had come from outerspace. 
The act in ring one was so strong that this elephant could sit in 
ring two, invisible.

Joel Salatin pointed out that the big chicken companies who are 
dumping tons of diseased turkeys and chickens into landfills right 
now are pushing for illegalizing outdoor chicken flocks, like joel's, 
like mine, like yours. There is a similar movement underfoot to 
present barned beef as the only protection from BSE. (Making Pastured 
Beef a health hazard.) In japan mad cow disease has already been used 
to knock the wind from the sales of their budding organic farming 
industry: who wants to catch mad cow from a carrot grown in cow shit??

(My friends, I'd like to say that, thanks to a generous contribution 
from Curtis and Jane, I expect to have tapes of Joel, Mark Purdey, 
Tom Cowan and others (as well as Sally and Will Britton) published on 
the net as sound files in the near futur