Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Hey, I am glad to here that you will get around to actually doing some realm of the living spraying. When you make your cards are the preps right out of the ground or are they stirred? How can you introduce the stirring process to radionics and field broadcasting? Is there a stirred water card??? Keep on... SStorch In a message dated 3/31/03 11:02:19 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: long term. Heck I'm not trying to convert you guys to radionics you have no need of it - just see our side of the story - and try to appreciate why we (or some of us) are so interested in these other ways of doing things.
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 3/31/03 11:21:28 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are you meaning cow pat pit or horn clay as the BCR? Due to some bs government eyebrow raising on interstate shipments we stopped all reference to barrel compost or cow pat manure and call it biodynamic compound preparation. I make mine with a special arrangement of 500-508 with clay, not orn clay just clay, I am not sold on horn clay, will make the Hugo Herbe clay prep this fall...SStorch
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 3/31/03 11:02:19 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Heck I'm not trying to convert you guys to radionics you have no need of it - just see our side of the story - and try to appreciate why we (or some of us) are so interested in these other ways of doing things. Cheers Lloyd Charles What about an egg shaped urn buried in the earth, the one I have has a 12,000 foot influence on the farm and surrounding area. I fill it with teas of 500, bc, 501 508, nettles, etc...sstorch
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 8:28 PM Subject: Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils Hey, I am glad to here that you will get around to actually doing some realm of the living spraying. When you make your cards are the preps right out of the ground or are they stirred? How can you introduce the stirring process to radionics and field broadcasting? Is there a stirred water card??? Keep on... SStorch Steve I use cards made from Hugh Lovel's preps - I figure his are as good as any - better than most - I assume they are from the ground. I keep some special energised rainwater vials in the broadcaster well and I believe the cosmic energies travelling through the forward and reverse rotation of the broadcaster coils and blending with the patterns of the preps held in the well replicates the role of stirring. cosmic energies coming in through vortex and chaos to blend with the patterns of the preps. Cheers Lloyd Charles
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Dear Alberto and list, Regarding: ... seeing what they do empirically, and kind of sounding the alarm on my own head and seeing what they do empirically, and kind of sounding the alarm on what we are now experiencing. By Dr Robert Beck. President United States Psychotronics Association, 1985. Is this the same Dr. Robert Beck who wrote The Body Electric? thanks _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 4/1/03 8:53:54 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: broadcaster coils and blending with the patterns of the preps held in the well replicates the role of stirring. cosmic energies coming in through vortex and chaos to blend with the patterns of the preps. I have to dis agree. If it is not done by the human hand where does the farm individuality arise from. Take ten minutes, stir the water and make the reagent,, you owe it to yourself...sstorch
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Steve Storch wrote I have to dis agree. If it is not done by the human hand where does the farm individuality arise from. Take ten minutes, stir the water and make the reagent,, you owe it to yourself...sstorch OK Steve (and any others that would like to comment) - I'll try this - a couple of questions though - 1. will this stirred water hold the energy pattern long enough to use it in a vial in the broadcaster (weeks or months) - that doesn't work with stirred preps ? Otherwise I need to make your 'stirred water 'card. 2. three of us are putting down some horns (of 500) this weekend and I'd like to include some clay, you have some different ideas on clay - any suggestions ? these are some options :: bentonite - its easy but I'd rather use local paddock reared clay :: I have a nice maroon clay from our subsoil layer - sticky and extremely dense, mostly magnesium it comes from about 6 to 18 inches deep in the profile. :: a yellowish sticky but highly dispersive, high sodium clay from our deep subsoil :: black pond muck - you talked about this stuff a while back - its a black silty clay that settles in the bottom of our farm water storage dams - powerful stuff - very nutrient rich - has some humic material included from organic wash in 3. we will be doing this in a new pit - any suggestions to pre treat the pit for a better result - I'd thought to spray it out with stirred 500 before putting the horns in ? Line the bottom with good compost maybe? What else works? Thanks for any suggestions cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 3/30/03 7:08:48 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: how it can be measured and how it can be changed using Albrecht/Rheams. How can we enhance the vitality using the biodynamic remedies??? By doing sequential sprays of 500, 501, and biodynamic compound remedy [bcr] with 502-508, and 508, 500/508, 501/508 and bcr that is how. Is this a radionics or a biodynamic discussion group??? In the agriculture lectures Steiner refers several times to keeping the work on the farm in the realm of the living. Ergo, sheathe material from domestic and wild animals, plants, and manures. As far as I am concerned I do not care for any of these scientific evaluations until the preparations have been used for two years...sstorch Steve, I think you are way out of line. What is so in the realm of the living about a stirring machine, a spray rig and a tractor? I don't get it. A radionic instrument is a whole lot MORE in the realm of the living as it is a bit mechanical--like a transit or a telescope--and a good bit more living operator who is using the radionic instrument to project his intention. And what is this notion you seem to have that radionics and biodynamics are, what? Mutually exclusive? Huh??? I haven't any doubt that were Rudolf Steiner around today he would be teaching farmers how to use radionic instruments and field broadcasters as well as getting kids to stir preparations for their Waldorf School gardens by hand. As you know I fully support you in your stirring and spraying. I think that you're doing good work there. Why send me scorn by return mail for radionics? Is this some only solution trip you're crusing on? Best, Hugh Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Lloyd, May I have a go as someone who knows precious little about all this. There seem to be two lines of thought: 1. Stimulating soil life, by making clay minerals available. Bentonite is a weathering product of volcanic tuffs, usually high Mg containing montmorillonites. The minerals are easily available to microorganisms and plants and especially recomended for light sandy soils in small quantities but frequently. 2. but I'd rather use local paddock reared clay sounds to me as you wanting to access energies or, in my interpretation, in the [clay] soils laid down learning by your environment (or is it of your environment?). I relate this to deep psychology - accessing the sub- or unconscious deep learnings and then connect this with what is happening now in an up-and-down process. Analogously, what about adding little bits of each soil layer to create an interchange of knowledge between the past and the present? Regards, Christiane [EMAIL PROTECTED]@envirolink.org on 02/04/2003 09:27:47 AM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils Steve Storch wrote I have to dis agree. If it is not done by the human hand where does the farm individuality arise from. Take ten minutes, stir the water and make the reagent,, you owe it to yourself...sstorch OK Steve (and any others that would like to comment) - I'll try this - a couple of questions though - 1. will this stirred water hold the energy pattern long enough to use it in a vial in the broadcaster (weeks or months) - that doesn't work with stirred preps ? Otherwise I need to make your 'stirred water 'card. 2. three of us are putting down some horns (of 500) this weekend and I'd like to include some clay, you have some different ideas on clay - any suggestions ? these are some options :: bentonite - its easy but I'd rather use local paddock reared clay :: I have a nice maroon clay from our subsoil layer - sticky and extremely dense, mostly magnesium it comes from about 6 to 18 inches deep in the profile. :: a yellowish sticky but highly dispersive, high sodium clay from our deep subsoil :: black pond muck - you talked about this stuff a while back - its a black silty clay that settles in the bottom of our farm water storage dams - powerful stuff - very nutrient rich - has some humic material included from organic wash in 3. we will be doing this in a new pit - any suggestions to pre treat the pit for a better result - I'd thought to spray it out with stirred 500 before putting the horns in ? Line the bottom with good compost maybe? What else works? Thanks for any suggestions cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Hugh wrote I haven't any doubt that were Rudolf Steiner around today he would be teaching farmers how to use radionic instruments and field broadcasters as well as getting kids to stir preparations for their Waldorf School gardens by hand. Nor have I any doubt about that All those 'anti' to radionics should read Steiner's reply to Pfeiffer more often the benefits of the biodynamic preparations should be made available as quickly as possible to the largest possible areas of the entire Earth, for the Earth's healing does'nt say anything about restricting the manner of application of those benefits to a pre ordained method. There are vast areas of the earth that cannot possibly be treated by conventional spraying of the preps - application costs will just not allow it to happen - field broadcasters can be set up for 50cents an acre and maintained in active service for a small fraction of that. Cheers all Lloyd Charles
Re: Raw Milk - Submission to Health Canada
- Original Message - From: Virginia Salares [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 12:17 PM Subject: Raw Milk - Submission to Health Canada http://www.magma.ca/~ca/rawmilk/submission.htm Virginia Salares Hi Virginia Are you aware of the health implications involved in the A2 milk issue?? - Google search 'A2 milk' for more info. Cheers Lloyd Charles Dear Virginia, Lloyd, et. al., Back when Pasteur came up with his process of pasteurization to cure the wine industry's problems of wine turning to vinegar, he was on to something. The trouble is the same principle does not apply to milk, although in our day good old bad science has prevailed again in the face of good sense. In the case of milk, there are immune cells, sometimes called somatic cells, leukocytes or white blood cells. These fight pathogens such as the common E. coli, Staph. aureus, Strep. etc. that are rather commonly found in the envrionments of milk cattle. While grape juice has no leukocytes, and thus has no means of fighting contamination, raw milk does. And what all the immune factors are in raw milk, we cannot know, for the scope of biochemistry can only penetrate the chemistry of milk maybe 10 or 20 percent--as when we analyse it, we must kill it. Thus the subtlety of its chemistry could be far greater than the scope of our ability to analyse it. But nevertheless we know that within the immune cells we have a terrific ability to fight pathogens. Pasteurization kills not only the majority of micro-organisms that exist in raw milk, it kills all the immune cells. Thus the resulting pasteurized milk, when it gets a bad micro-organism in it, the pathogen takes over big time. And we get some types we wouldn't have seen in raw milk, such as Listeria and Pasteurella. Studies from back in the thirties--I don't have the exact reference--show that amonst people drinking raw milk none got tuberculosis, while amongst those drinking pasteurized milk 7 to 9 percent did. Tuberculosis is one of the diseases that pasteurization is supposed to protect people against, yet the research indicates otherwise. An explanation of this was given to me by no less than Charles Murphy, the chief scientist of the Georgia Milk Commission. In his words, Any more, milk in the store has so few micro-organisms in it that when people DO get some pathogen in their milk they have no acquired immunity. This makes some sense. When people drank fresh raw milk it contained a variety of immune factors, all of which we cannot know, but some of which are documented. When pasteurized, these are lost. So we may kill the tuberculosis organisms in the pasteurized milk that we drink, but we get no immunity to tuberculosis by drinking that milk. So if we encounter tuberculosis from other sources, we are lost. Is pasteurization of milk bad science, or what? Trust that in government money talks and science walks. Money can utilize bad science and get away with it, because lawmakers are usually not scientists though they usually have a keen appreciation of money. There are, of course, some exceptions, and I do not wish to malign all politicians. But generally what is the accepted scientific wisdom on any subject is ten to twenty years in advance of the laws. In some cases, like the fertilizer laws, it is a hundred years ahead. In others it may be only a couple years ahead. But on the average, 10 to 20 seems a safe figure. Best, Hugh Lovel Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 3/31/03 11:21:28 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are you meaning cow pat pit or horn clay as the BCR? Due to some bs government eyebrow raising on interstate shipments we stopped all reference to barrel compost or cow pat manure and call it biodynamic compound preparation. I make mine with a special arrangement of 500-508 with clay, not orn clay just clay, I am not sold on horn clay, will make the Hugo Herbe clay prep this fall...SStorch Steve, Jeez, Storch! Why not put your clay in a horn? What's the problem? Afraid it will get some cosmic forces? Hugh Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 3/31/03 11:02:19 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Heck I'm not trying to convert you guys to radionics you have no need of it - just see our side of the story - and try to appreciate why we (or some of us) are so interested in these other ways of doing things. Cheers Lloyd Charles What about an egg shaped urn buried in the earth, the one I have has a 12,000 foot influence on the farm and surrounding area. I fill it with teas of 500, bc, 501 508, nettles, etc...sstorch Steve, There you are. You do good work. Keep it up. Hugh Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 8:28 PM Subject: Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils Hey, I am glad to here that you will get around to actually doing some realm of the living spraying. When you make your cards are the preps right out of the ground or are they stirred? How can you introduce the stirring process to radionics and field broadcasting? Is there a stirred water card??? Keep on... SStorch Steve I use cards made from Hugh Lovel's preps - I figure his are as good as any - better than most - I assume they are from the ground. I keep some special energised rainwater vials in the broadcaster well and I believe the cosmic energies travelling through the forward and reverse rotation of the broadcaster coils and blending with the patterns of the preps held in the well replicates the role of stirring. cosmic energies coming in through vortex and chaos to blend with the patterns of the preps. Cheers Lloyd Charles Dears, I have to laugh. Yes. my preps are from the ground. In fact, they are Courtney's preps, and as Lloyd says they probably are as good as any and better than most. I sent these samples off to England and had the cards made by Wendy. But we could as well make our own cards, really. Each has their own perspective in making a card, but I think I might trust the perspective of an older person with a lot of experience than most younger persons--though not all. Some are born with a better connection than I can ever hope to have. And so it goes. We each have our focus, and our distortions. It is useful to ask what your own focus and distortions are, and to pursue this, as one can learn a lot. I don't exactly want to say that I have done this, even though I have, because I cannot tell how much I have to work through to attain what others may be born with. I don't know that I have done this to the finish. In fact, I'm sure I have not done this to the finish. I've worked on my consciousness, sure, and know that we could all afford to--would greatly benefit from it. It's humbling, as what comes out is all one's foolishness, pettyness, stupidity, blindness, wishful thinking, etc. And when is that reservoir dry? When we wish? Or when we cannot find any more? And even when we can't, are we good at finding more in the depths of our spirit? When dowsing, are we not taking on the most direct of spiritual challenges? One sets an intent and then explores what might be the answer. And one must take the indication, clear, either yes or no, or either a degree or percent, a gradient, a scale or a selection. One must go from there with confidence. Here's one of the hitches. Reality conforms to our mental images. So when we think things must be one way or another, they generally conform, though there are a lot of factors involved, particularly when many other people are involved. But Heisenberg, back in the thirties, proposed that the very presence of the observer and his measuring instruments was a determining factor in the field of investigation. And so it seems to be. We tend to create the realities we inhabit. So where will we experience the ultimate truths? When we mould them? Or when we seek the creative authority of the whole, entire universe to show us the mould? I'll leave us with that question. Best, Hugh Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Question for Hugh: Growing Ginger
Dear Hugh - You gave me a lot of cultural information about growing ginger at ACRES. I've finally got around to buying a couple of cases of it from the local food co-op. Something I was wondering was if you thought that here in the Northern Virginia area I might be better off planting it in a hoophouse rather than in the open. Hoophouse will be ventilated but temperatures will run around a hundred on most sunny days. Thanks -Allan
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
In a message dated 4/1/03 8:53:54 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: broadcaster coils and blending with the patterns of the preps held in the well replicates the role of stirring. cosmic energies coming in through vortex and chaos to blend with the patterns of the preps. I have to dis agree. If it is not done by the human hand where does the farm individuality arise from. Take ten minutes, stir the water and make the reagent,, you owe it to yourself...sstorch Dear Steve, By human hand or by human thought? What is the deciding factor? If by the human hand without the human thought, what then? And if by the human thought without the human hand, what then? Consider this. You DO own it to your self. Take ten minutes--or an hour--and stir. It's a good activity. And cover an acre or several. Take two minutes and even ten and cover a thousand or even four thousand. What's the difference? The human thought goes with both, even if the human hand does not so much. Where's your valuation of things? Where does it lie? With certain personalitles and their persuasions, or with your own knowing? What do each say? What do you say? While I like you and what you are doing, are you under the persuasion of others, and have you the choice of getting into radionics or not? Are you that free? I'll like you either way, and acknowledge y ou either way, can you do the same for me? Can you grant me the validity of my path? I grant I don't think I have ever sold one of your stirring machines, though I've recommended them. I would always recommend them since they keep the EMF as far as possible from the solution to be sprayed. I must wonder when you have ever recommended one of my broadcasters for a client who had too rough a terrain or too much acerage for stirring and sprayin to be an option. Aren't we trying to get the benefits of our preparations out over the largest possible areas of the earth for the earth's healing for the benefit of all? Aren't you interested in how this works? Granted you may be coming from a belief that this does not work. But surely that doesn't serve true, and you have to acknowledge that what I and Lorraine, and Lloyd, Arden Anderson, Phil Wheeler, etc. are doing works. .Aren't you interested? You can expeeriment around and see what you think. Anyone amongst us will help you, ask anyone you trust. We'd all like to see you experiment, and no telling you might teach us things we didn't know and didn't understand. That's ordinarily the way of the way of things. Anyway, here's a critical brother. I appreciate all the good you do, which is plenty. I'm being critical. I wish it wasn't so. When I see you at conferences or gatherings, let me always be your friend and supporter. But, please be a little more open-minded. Okay? Best, Hugh Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
What about an egg shaped urn buried in the earth, the one I have has a 12,000 foot influence on the farm and surrounding area. I fill it with teas of 500, bc, 501 508, nettles, etc...sstorch Steve, I missed this first time around . this is not radionics ? but as my old dad would say its as near as dammit is to swearing from it Lloyd Charles
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Hi Christiane Thanks for your input - bentonite sounds like good stuff to me - is there just one bentonite - animal feeders round here use sodium bentonite and I can get some of that - I know soil conservation used to recommend bentonite for repairing leaky dams and I thought I had heard of a calcium bentonite is there such a thing ? Maybe my ears were ringing at the time. There seem to be two lines of thought: 1. Stimulating soil life, by making clay minerals available. Bentonite is a weathering product of volcanic tuffs, usually high Mg containing montmorillonites. The minerals are easily available to microorganisms and plants and especially recomended for light sandy soils in small quantities but frequently. 2. but I'd rather use local paddock reared clay sounds to me as you wanting to access energies or, in my interpretation, in the [clay] soils laid down learning by your environment (or is it of your environment?). I relate this to deep psychology - accessing the sub- or unconscious deep learnings and then connect this with what is happening now in an up-and-down process. Analogously, what about adding little bits of each soil layer to create an interchange of knowledge between the past and the present? Nothing so deep, just figuring we have some nice clay here thats a strong part of what this farm is and what the soils will do, why bring in clay from hundreds of miles away ? However for a nutritional kick along, supplying readily available trace minerals - thats a different and interesting subject. What rate of bentonite would you suggest to use on a sandy loam soil? - is it affordable on a broadacre scale? Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils
Hi Lloyd Do a [google] search on bentonite for Australia. there is a fair bit on the web. Yes, there is a calcium bentonite, which would probably be much better than the sodium bentonite. See the page 'Mineral Information Leaflet 1'. Quoting from Sattler-Wistinghausen, 1985, Der landwirtschaftliche Betrieb biologisch-dynamisch (The agricultural enterprise bio-dynamic), Ulmer, Stuttgart, my bd bible: Addition of bentonite: compost: 1-2 kg/m³ spreading in the garden - not field (sic!) - 0.2-0.4 t/ha (Don't know, why it is okay in the garden, but not in the agricultural field (Acker). Perhaps adding it to the manure is the better way.) liquid manure 200 g/m³ 200 g/100 l spray as additive to the trunk coat and additive as resistance inducing preventative fungicidal sprays in orchards and vineyards. The Al-ions are the effective components. [Hofmann, Köpfer und Werner, 1995, Oekologischer Weinbau (Ecological Viticulture), Ulmer, Stuttgart]. Sorry, I am not biased towards German vs Australian books. These are just the ones I have got, because I had easy access to them. Christiane [EMAIL PROTECTED]@envirolink.org on 02/04/2003 04:01:34 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Vitality and fertility ofsoils Hi Christiane Thanks for your input - bentonite sounds like good stuff to me - is there just one bentonite - animal feeders round here use sodium bentonite and I can get some of that - I know soil conservation used to recommend bentonite for repairing leaky dams and I thought I had heard of a calcium bentonite is there such a thing ? Maybe my ears were ringing at the time. There seem to be two lines of thought: 1. Stimulating soil life, by making clay minerals available. Bentonite is a weathering product of volcanic tuffs, usually high Mg containing montmorillonites. The minerals are easily available to microorganisms and plants and especially recomended for light sandy soils in small quantities but frequently. 2. but I'd rather use local paddock reared clay sounds to me as you wanting to access energies or, in my interpretation, in the [clay] soils laid down learning by your environment (or is it of your environment?). I relate this to deep psychology - accessing the sub- or unconscious deep learnings and then connect this with what is happening now in an up-and-down process. Analogously, what about adding little bits of each soil layer to create an interchange of knowledge between the past and the present? Nothing so deep, just figuring we have some nice clay here thats a strong part of what this farm is and what the soils will do, why bring in clay from hundreds of miles away ? However for a nutritional kick along, supplying readily available trace minerals - thats a different and interesting subject. What rate of bentonite would you suggest to use on a sandy loam soil? - is it affordable on a broadacre scale? Cheers Lloyd Charles
