Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
Dear Gil, I don't know how you have had a problem getting the two Copen Agriculture booklets, however I was able to get a copy of each. The information from the two books has opened a whole new range of possibilities. No I don't have a Copen instrument, mine is from Altered States in NZ, it only has 9 dials however I am now at the stage that I would like to make my own instrument as some analysis winds up with more numbers in the rates than I can get with a 9 dial Base 10, especially with insects. Call it the next stage of the education of James. Any specifications or diagrams that you may be able to help with would be appreciated. Contact me off list and we will see what can be worked out. Sorry to hear that you are not in good health. maybe we could discuss it off list. I wish you a speedy recovery from your health problems. Kindest regards James - Original Message - From: Gil Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 10:37 PM Subject: Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm Hi! James and Lloyd, I am out of action at the moment with health probs. But picked up on your post concerning Copen's Agricultural methods. Did you start with the rates in his Ag Rate Book? I was going to buy it several years ago, but now they seem to have with-drawn it from all their sites. I have emailed both the US and German offices and neither replied. So I do not know if they have some issue with it. Do you have a copy of it? Do you have any of his instruments? I have a Mark 2 A. This is one of the fifteen knob ones, with all sorts of additional posibilities that I have never got to trying. All up it has twenty four knobs and four switches. I bought in a collection of intruments and intended to possibly use it with his Ag Rates, but do not have the book, nor have been able to buy it. If you need something made up that requires more knobs than you have, I can do it if required. Gil James Hedley wrote: Bruce Copen from Copen Instruments developed a fertiliser which was prepared radionically which he called Cosmo. it is a mixture of homeopathic Schussler tissue salts, radionically prepared BD preps, a substance called Agrospon which feeds bacteria and other microbes plus a couple of other remedies such as Lachesis ( a great anti viral ) and Lycopodium (to strengthen the archetype of the plant). I have been broadcasting this out during the drought as well as Copen's Nutritional spray # 5. Each of these have been broadcast for 24 hours at least once a fortnight since last spring when I realised that we were moving into severe drought..
Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
Hi! James and Lloyd, I am out of action at the moment with health probs. But picked up on your post concerning Copen's Agricultural methods. Did you start with the rates in his Ag Rate Book? I was going to buy it several years ago, but now they seem to have with-drawn it from all their sites. I have emailed both the US and German offices and neither replied. So I do not know if they have some issue with it. Do you have a copy of it? Do you have any of his instruments? I have a Mark 2 A. This is one of the fifteen knob ones, with all sorts of additional posibilities that I have never got to trying. All up it has twenty four knobs and four switches. I bought in a collection of intruments and intended to possibly use it with his Ag Rates, but do not have the book, nor have been able to buy it. If you need something made up that requires more knobs than you have, I can do it if required. Gil James Hedley wrote: Bruce Copen from Copen Instruments developed a fertiliser which was prepared radionically which he called Cosmo. it is a mixture of homeopathic Schussler tissue salts, radionically prepared BD preps, a substance called Agrospon which feeds bacteria and other microbes plus a couple of other remedies such as Lachesis ( a great anti viral ) and Lycopodium (to strengthen the archetype of the plant). I have been broadcasting this out during the drought as well as Copen's Nutritional spray # 5. Each of these have been broadcast for 24 hours at least once a fortnight since last spring when I realised that we were moving into severe drought..
Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
- Original Message - From: James Hedley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 11:04 AM Subject: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm Dear Lloyd, I agree with you that a commercial farm is not really the place for doing chromas. How many BD farms or CSA's supply food with a certificate of quality backed up by chromas. Hi James The biggest problem I see with this is trying to get a valid comparison - if the overlapping influence of the normal preps is a fact (and Allan agreed that it was), then how do we compare ? If we move far enough away to eliminate that effect then we introduce other variables - different soil types - past history - it makes the excercise pointless I think. I spoke to Cheryl today and they are able to do chromas on the barrel compost samples so I will send some in for that it seems to me that the nebulous thing which Alan defines as quality is best decided by the farmer themselves first, then by their peers and also by the customer. I think I would put the customer ahead of the peers. My guess is that if a farmer of any persuasion had to supply a certificate of compliance with their produce very little of the food produced would get to market. I believe that to simply use the preps and compost as defined by RS will only lead to depletion of soil mineralisation. Thats not a popular statement to make in BD circles but I believe its right on the mark! We cant expect to 'bring in' from the cosmos, all the necessary minerals for a cropping program with decent yields either, at least not in the early stages of our development. If we started with soils with a high mineral content (such as yours) and pursued a program with a low nett export of minerals from the farm then maybe. This does not mean we have to use salt fertiliser but something has to come in to balance output. I had a very good afternoon with Tobias at Yanco today and we discussed a few of these things, he has done a really good job with the organic plots there, he's at a stage where weed control is not a major problem,and his production levels are quite good, he has picked 18 ton /ha of zuchinis off one block so far and they are still cropping like mad, pumpkins look good as do the soybeans, but he is still struggling with fairly low brix readings and it seems difficult to shift that, there is something still not quite right but they gave him the worst bit of soil on the whole farm to work with. There is more to cropping than that. In ancient soils as we have in large areas of Australia minerals are very low to start with, so any chance you have to add to mineralisation or to increase microbial growth will give a great return. Bruce Copen from Copen Instruments developed a fertiliser which was prepared radionically which he called Cosmo. it is a mixture of homeopathic Schussler tissue salts, radionically prepared BD preps, a substance called Agrospon which feeds bacteria and other microbes plus a couple of other remedies such as Lachesis ( a great anti viral ) and Lycopodium (to strengthen the archetype of the plant). I have been broadcasting this out during the drought as well as Copen's Nutritional spray # 5. Each of these have been broadcast for 24 hours at least once a fortnight since last spring when I realised that we were moving into severe drought.. People who come to our place all comment on the speed which the pasture and bushland has recovered, compared to surrounding farms. If you would like a phial of each to try in your broadcasters I would be pleased to send them to you. Yes please! I sure would like to try these - I have a couple of interesting things that you might like to try in return. The use of electronic homeopathy for plants has a great future in overcoming mineral deficiency problems in plants and this combination of mixtures seems to be a valuable tool to have in your arsenal. have had eleven and a half inches of rain wow! its a crazy country we live in - we had very close to five and could stand another inch right now. We have 700 acres cultivated and its a bit too dry on top to continue will probably do another 500 on the next rain if the season goes with us as our sheep numbers are very low - only have 300 lambs left and will be totally destocked when they are sold in the winter. Not sowing oats as we have adequate feed for the few sheep we have. Plan is to try to get a reasonable area of pasture sown down this year (lucerne) so we can back off the cropping and get a little better balance with livestock in the future. I want to try and let this farm grow some spare grass this year as we just dont have enough soil cover. Probably start sowing in mid april if we get a little rain then. Tobias and I thinking about going to Young at the end of this month to hear Gary Zimmer and Jerry Brunetti (more yanks) I've been brewing some ingham style compost tea, with a few variations and it seems to be working OK
Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
Chromas as intellectual curiosity? Well, let me just add these comments from a general perspective. Chromas are a practical approach to the humus farmers in Austria and Switzerland, who work their soils with humified compost, cover crops, spading machines, rotations, and related humus management practices to achieve biological health, clay-humus crumb, and associated mineral availability. There, the chromas are used with a series of other humus measurements to provide a fundamental understanding of the condition of the soil. The typical NPK soil test, even the Albrecht soil test, is largely irrelevant from this humus perspective. Likewise, are chromas used to view food quality. Certainly the chroma reveals a qualitative nature that cannot be seen by taking the food apart and analyzing its individual components. Yet nobody is suggesting that chromas be used as some sort of certificate of proof. I just did a workshop on food quality and the chromas were one of the things that helped people get it in terms of food quality, holism, and image forming qualitative perspective. James, that was very interesting to read about the Bruce Copen bio-mineral soil amendment mix, sent out by broadcasting. It is a little glimpse into some very intersting and worth following up and learning a lot more. Steve Diver James Hedley wrote: Dear Lloyd, I agree with you that a commercial farm is not really the place for doing chromas. How many BD farms or CSA's supply food with a certificate of quality backed up by chromas. To me they are only of intellectual interest to check how your farm is going overall. but really how do you define quality without a standard to measure it by. it seems to me that the nebulous thing which Alan defines as quality is best decided by the farmer themselves first, then by their peers and also by the customer. My guess is that if a farmer of any persuasion had to supply a certificate of compliance with their produce very little of the food produced would get to market. I believe that to simply use the preps and compost as defined by RS will only lead to depletion of soil mineralisation. There is more to cropping than that. In ancient soils as we have in large areas of Australia minerals are very low to start with, so any chance you have to add to mineralisation or to increase microbial growth will give a great return. Bruce Copen from Copen Instruments developed a fertiliser which was prepared radionically which he called Cosmo. it is a mixture of homeopathic Schussler tissue salts, radionically prepared BD preps, a substance called Agrospon which feeds bacteria and other microbes plus a couple of other remedies such as Lachesis ( a great anti viral ) and Lycopodium (to strengthen the archetype of the plant). I have been broadcasting this out during the drought as well as Copen's Nutritional spray # 5. Each of these have been broadcast for 24 hours at least once a fortnight since last spring when I realised that we were moving into severe drought.. People who come to our place all comment on the speed which the pasture and bushland has recovered, compared to surrounding farms. If you would like a phial of each to try in your broadcasters I would be pleased to send them to you. The use of electronic homeopathy for plants has a great future in overcoming mineral deficiency problems in plants and this combination of mixtures seems to be a valuable tool to have in your arsenal. have had eleven and a half inches of rain since the Albury workshop so we are well and truly out of the drought for the moment although much more rain is needed to replenish sub soil moisture. will be planting forage oats next week. It is amazing what a few weeks can make on a farm. Conditions can change so fast. Have you started planting yet? Kind regards James - Original Message - From: Lloyd Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 12:05 PM Subject: Re: late winter farm I dont expect the traditionalists on the list to go into raptures over this but I believe that we need to know if these things can work. It could be useful to use some radionically prepared prep water in any making of BD preps - Lloyd - What I'd like to see is chromas comparing crops (carrots, for example) grown in radionically prepped soils and in conventional BD prepped soils. We can have good physical appearances but still not have everything that we are looking for in BD food. Are you up for doing something like this? Allan The way I understand this type of comparison trial its difficult to do because of the crossover effect of physical preps? 500 will spread its influence over the general area treated? We 'd assume that the other preps do likewise. I know Hamish says its not necessary to cover every square yard when you spray the preps - so to move away from this influence for a comparison we
Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
From: Steve Diver The typical NPK soil test, even the Albrecht soil test, is largely irrelevant from this humus perspective. Hi Steve I would like to pursue this a bit. Maybe I think a bit different to most but I reckon the main benefit of a proper soil test (a good Albrecht type analysis) is the detailed trace element analysis - of course you have to pay the rate to get it and many people are not prepared to go whole hog on a soil test. The majors are simple and cheap - you can get Calcium , magnesium, potassium and sodium off any old twenty dollar soil test and run an 'Albrecht balance' off those numbers and most times you will come out with a workable result - there is a bit of math involved and some conversion figures sometimes - it helps to know the cheap test numbers in comparison to a perry or brookside but you can do this . OTOH A decent trace element analysis is not something you can get cheap. For trace element numbers you need to go to a good lab and pay the price and also do any retests with that same lab. Trace element nutrition is something that many organic farmers neglect almost as badly as their chemical cousins and I really dont see how you can get this right (or know that it is right) without some proper soil testing. Of course I dont know those Swiss soils - maybe they are so loaded with minerals and energy that the farmers dont need to look for anything extra - Quartz crystal that I have seen from there is the best energetically. Tell us what they are doing that makes testing irrelevant Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
Lloyd - As usual you understand the finer points of soil management and soil testing. I'm in agreement as to the value of the Albrecht soil test, with extra attention to trace element analysis and the balance or ratios between them. Yet, you ask what makes the mineral balancing soil test irrelevant, or let us say not absolutely necessary, from the humus perspective. My paper on Luebke compost has all the details on humus testing methods used by the European farmers. But you have to click on Google cache to get it. Essentially, with Luebke compost you also have rock dusts amended to the compost windrow. This is clay-amended compost. Thus, you have clay-humus crumb structure with exponential nutrient exchange sites and biological life sites. You have solubilization and mineralization. You have organo-mineral complexes and biotic-mineral complexes. You have enzymes operating at greatly enhanced capacity with the trace elements from rock dusts. When you have a chroma test with pH potential test, Humus value test, and OM test, you have enough information to evaluate a soil. It tells you how much biological activity is underway, how much mineralization is underway, how much humification is underway, etc. Mineral testing, whether typical NPK-lime or a full-blown Albrecht analysis, is just one of several ways to view soils and develop soil management and fertility recommendations. My resource list below attempted to open the doors of understanding for alternative or ecological or holistic approaches to soil testing, with people, lab methods, recommendation philosophies, and resources. Alternative Soil Testing Laboratories http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/soil-lab.html Ideally, one might have the benefit of a good mineral balancing soil test as well as the humus management series of tests, to get a complete picture. The soil foodweb analysis from SFI is another angle. The microbial functional groups analysis from BBC Labs is another angle. These fall into the microbial-humus category on my resource list. So if you complement a mineral test with a microbial-humus test you gain a broader view of the situation and that should help all the way around. Best regards, Steve Diver Lloyd Charles wrote: From: Steve Diver The typical NPK soil test, even the Albrecht soil test, is largely irrelevant from this humus perspective. Hi Steve I would like to pursue this a bit. Maybe I think a bit different to most but I reckon the main benefit of a proper soil test (a good Albrecht type analysis) is the detailed trace element analysis - of course you have to pay the rate to get it and many people are not prepared to go whole hog on a soil test. The majors are simple and cheap - you can get Calcium , magnesium, potassium and sodium off any old twenty dollar soil test and run an 'Albrecht balance' off those numbers and most times you will come out with a workable result - there is a bit of math involved and some conversion figures sometimes - it helps to know the cheap test numbers in comparison to a perry or brookside but you can do this . OTOH A decent trace element analysis is not something you can get cheap. For trace element numbers you need to go to a good lab and pay the price and also do any retests with that same lab. Trace element nutrition is something that many organic farmers neglect almost as badly as their chemical cousins and I really dont see how you can get this right (or know that it is right) without some proper soil testing. Of course I dont know those Swiss soils - maybe they are so loaded with minerals and energy that the farmers dont need to look for anything extra - Quartz crystal that I have seen from there is the best energetically. Tell us what they are doing that makes testing irrelevant Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
Lloyd - The Albrecht soil tests of what I found to be rather savorabley imbalanced soil I distributed last week were done on soils that have been heavily amended by Luebke-formula compost made under the guidance of Mr George Leiding of Imants. George, I believe, was a domestic in the Luebke household for many years. The clay basis of the compost is readily observable, especially when the compost is wet. I am currently investigating the inputs to this compost to see if the explanation for the imbalance can be found there. Which reminds me: does anyone know a mail order no-consultant-attached source of Luebke compost starter in the US? thanks _Allan
Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
My paper on Luebke compost has all the details on humus testing methods used by the European farmers. But you have to click on Google cache to get it. Sorry, Steve - Can you give better directions on how to locate this? Thanks _Allan
Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
My paper on Luebke compost has all the details on humus testing methods used by the European farmers. But you have to click on Google cache to get it. Sorry, Steve - Can you give better directions on how to locate this? Thanks _Allan Me too please Lloyd Charles
Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
Looks like Google quit indexing my home page, since it is no longer publically-accessible. Apparently it made an impact or two, when it did exist. Rhizosphere II - Incredible Web page by Steve Diver - worth while visiting if you are interested in organic farming http://www.avocadosource.com/links/soils_and_soil_biology.htm Steve Allan Balliett wrote: My paper on Luebke compost has all the details on humus testing methods used by the European farmers. But you have to click on Google cache to get it. Sorry, Steve - Can you give better directions on how to locate this? Thanks _Allan
Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
Looks like Google quit indexing my home page, since it is no longer publically-accessible. Apparently it made an impact or two, when it did exist. Rhizosphere II - Incredible Web page by Steve Diver - worth while visiting if you are interested in organic farming http://www.avocadosource.com/links/soils_and_soil_biology.htm Steve Password, please! Thanks
Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
Dear Lloyd, I agree with you that a commercial farm is not really the place for doing chromas. How many BD farms or CSA's supply food with a certificate of quality backed up by chromas. To me they are only of intellectual interest to check how your farm is going overall. but really how do you define quality without a standard to measure it by. it seems to me that the nebulous thing which Alan defines as quality is best decided by the farmer themselves first, then by their peers and also by the customer. My guess is that if a farmer of any persuasion had to supply a certificate of compliance with their produce very little of the food produced would get to market. I believe that to simply use the preps and compost as defined by RS will only lead to depletion of soil mineralisation. There is more to cropping than that. In ancient soils as we have in large areas of Australia minerals are very low to start with, so any chance you have to add to mineralisation or to increase microbial growth will give a great return. Bruce Copen from Copen Instruments developed a fertiliser which was prepared radionically which he called Cosmo. it is a mixture of homeopathic Schussler tissue salts, radionically prepared BD preps, a substance called Agrospon which feeds bacteria and other microbes plus a couple of other remedies such as Lachesis ( a great anti viral ) and Lycopodium (to strengthen the archetype of the plant). I have been broadcasting this out during the drought as well as Copen's Nutritional spray # 5. Each of these have been broadcast for 24 hours at least once a fortnight since last spring when I realised that we were moving into severe drought.. People who come to our place all comment on the speed which the pasture and bushland has recovered, compared to surrounding farms. If you would like a phial of each to try in your broadcasters I would be pleased to send them to you. The use of electronic homeopathy for plants has a great future in overcoming mineral deficiency problems in plants and this combination of mixtures seems to be a valuable tool to have in your arsenal. have had eleven and a half inches of rain since the Albury workshop so we are well and truly out of the drought for the moment although much more rain is needed to replenish sub soil moisture. will be planting forage oats next week. It is amazing what a few weeks can make on a farm. Conditions can change so fast. Have you started planting yet? Kind regards James - Original Message - From: Lloyd Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 12:05 PM Subject: Re: late winter farm I dont expect the traditionalists on the list to go into raptures over this but I believe that we need to know if these things can work. It could be useful to use some radionically prepared prep water in any making of BD preps - Lloyd - What I'd like to see is chromas comparing crops (carrots, for example) grown in radionically prepped soils and in conventional BD prepped soils. We can have good physical appearances but still not have everything that we are looking for in BD food. Are you up for doing something like this? Allan The way I understand this type of comparison trial its difficult to do because of the crossover effect of physical preps? 500 will spread its influence over the general area treated? We 'd assume that the other preps do likewise. I know Hamish says its not necessary to cover every square yard when you spray the preps - so to move away from this influence for a comparison we then introduce the change in soil types as a variable? I'll talk to Cheryl maybe they can do chromas on the actual BC, I think one of the members in the Bellingen area is up to doing chromas, its beyond me at this stage (and outside of my interest) there are more basic problems need attention. I think I've said to you before I like to come at things from as many different angles as I can, I'm certainly not advocating giving up making proper preps and doing it all off cards, but why not use the radionics to add some extra? I think Steve Storch is doing stuff like this now - maybe not radionically. Any of these easy things we should do any chance we get - it may not be ideal but if it gets done easy and cheap it must add to the overall effect. With my potentiser, cards and ash samples, anytime I put anything liquid out I can add some preps or pepper weeds to bolster the effect of the broadcaster, its easy and there is no cost. Will let you know if anything develops Cheers Lloyd Charles
