Re: Adding a second berner to the family
Cindy, Two dogs are more work, but also fun. I started out with one Sheltie, waited 5 years, before adding our first Berner, but less than a year for the second one. Taking two for walks is not so bad, but if you add the third one. Oh, I love all my dogs and even dog sat my friends dogs and had as many as 6 dogs in my house without problem. But after loosing first our Sheltie, realized how nice two dogs are to have. Than lost not too long later our first Berner and we are back to one dog. I do enjoy having just one dog. Neala goes to more places with me. She gets more spoiled. I'm able to buy her different more expensive foods. The biggest drawback of having more than one dog is when they get sick. Vet bills can add quickly if you have more than one dog, just in normal maintenance, like yearly blood work, chiropractic maintenance, etc. If I want her to play with other dogs, than make friends with someone who also has a dog. Right now want to set things in place that she can go every now and than to a doggy day care. We have a wonderful place in Tucson. Also think that Neala enjoys it more to be the only dog. Now she gets all the petting:) So, lots of people love having more as one dog, but you do have the ones who think one dog is just fine:) Nothing wrong with either one. Sylvia Katvala and a spoiled Neala
Mic and The Baby
Friends of ours (Trish and Aaron) had a baby this fall, and recently they visited us for the first time since Kate's arrival. Kate has Borzoi at home, so have large wet noses and tongues poking and slurping does not distress her (she's about three months old). Well, all four of our dogs were very mannerly with the baby; Cassie the rescue Pyr has lived with babies before and mostly said, oh, hi, another one of these. My three have met some babies but not often--Lliira the Pyr girl and Nessie the Newfie were fascinated and inclined to come and investigate at regular intervals. Mic was not fascinated but he was fine, checking her out and then wandering off to do his own thing. Until she cried. The crying thing he was not so sure about--first he checked her out, then he came over to me as if to say, ok, make it stop now, please! The visit was a success all around (and as you might recall, Mic went through a phase where he was only allowed to be around very calm, mannerly, dog-wise children while he was leashed, due to some growling incidents--he has now been allowed to be loose and interacting with children/infants for about six months, and while I don't trust him the way I do the girls, he is getting better and better). Fast forward a few days. I am on my treadmill, with a tape of Star Trek Next Generation going, doing my morning masochist, er, exercise routine. It's the episode where Counselor Troi has a baby. Well, the TV baby starts crying. Mic, who usually ignores the TV, jumps up, runs over, and listens to the sound coming from the speaker, head tipping left and right. Then, off he explodes, running to all the front windows, looking out at the driveway for Trish and Aaron's van. That failing, he runs upstairs to look out at our bedroom side window, which overlooks the rest of the driveway. No dice. Down he comes, very puzzled, peeking out the front windows again. What the heck, he thinks, the baby is here crying--where are they hiding??? Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
Sleeping In
So I had the bright idea I was going to sleep in this morning. I set the clock for the vastly sinful time of 8:30am (I'm not kidding--when you live on a horse farm, that is serious sloth!). 6:00am. Eileen wakes up. Nature calls. Gets up, falls over Nessie the Newfie, who blends into the carpet in the dark. 6:15 am. Back in bed, organizing covers. Mic the Berner boy climbs in bed. Wedges in-between spouse and Ei. 6:40 am. Nessie begins snoring like large, fat man. 7:00 am. Cassie the Pyr bays like the Hound of the Baskervilles, leaps up from the foot of the bed, races outside to tell off a squirrel, or maybe some dread monster like the local Chickadee population. 7:30 am. Nessie wonders why Eileen is not out of bed yet, comes over to poke her with a very wet, sticky nose and tongue. Eileen wonders if Newfs are in the frog family as she unsticks her hair from the pillow. 7:45 am. Lliira the Pyr comes prowling in. Climbs on bed. Mic is in her spot, so she stands on Eileen's stomach (good thing we did not ignore that call from nature at 6). Snuffles Eileen's face careful, full of concern that she is not out of bed. Turns around carefully, sits down with her behind in Eileen's armpit, slowly ooches into a down position, wedged on the edge of the bed. Nessie decides someone is getting attention, comes up and starts hovering over the pillows, flinging slime, licking anything sticking out of the covers, such as an ear, elbow, or eyebrow. Mic realizes other dogs might be getting petted without him, so he rolls over and then commando-crawls up the bed until he is lying on top of Eileen, paws on her shoulders, nose in her face. Lliira feels left out, gets up, turns around again, and starts snuffle-snorting all over what Nessie and Mic have not covered with slime, kisses, and nose pokes. Cassie is outside, barking down the house at the Slate-colored Junko's in the Maple. 8:00 am. Eileen gives up. Feeding horses will be easier than sleeping in. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
Re: BARF/YahooGoup
Dear Vicky... I just went to YahooGroups and did a search for NaturalBerners in every shape and form that I can think of but alas I can not find it. Can you help me here? BTW... I/We are new to the this list as well as a waiting list for a Berner Pup. This E-List is a veritable fountain of information and we are loving every mintue of it. Thank you all. Erica, Brad Edyn Nikomis (feline family member)
Re: Adding a second berner to the family
Cindy - I don't have any answers - but the same questions you do. I'd love if you can share with me what you find out (as I know people don't all post their replies to the list and may just email you privately with their response. Rita Ehrnfeldt Jewl 19 months - New Jersey --- Cindy Buhner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I have a question. We are *very* seriously considering adding a second male berner to our family and I'm trying to understand how much more work a second dog is once you've gone through the adjustment of having one? I know a lot is dependent upon personality, age, etc and there will be more hair, poop to clean up, costs but I'd like to hear from those who have gone this route what their thoughts are. Thanks, Cindy = Cindy Buhner and Paws (the BARC boy) Help a good cause www.barcinc.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com = Support anti-Spam legislation. Join the fight http://www.cauce.org/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com
Re: BARF/YahooGoup
At 10:39 AM -0500 2/15/03, E M Poster wrote: Dear Vicky... I just went to YahooGroups and did a search for NaturalBerners in every shape and form that I can think of but alas I can not find it. Can you help me here? BTW... I/We are new to the this list as well as a waiting list for a Berner Pup. This E-List is a veritable fountain of information and we are loving every mintue of it. Thank you all. Erica, Brad Edyn Nikomis (feline family member) try http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalBerners/ or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BARF
Pat, Is this true? Do you eat Scrapple? My husband is from Nebraska and he has been trying and trying to find scrapple since he moved here (Oregon), of course, no body here even knows what scrapple is Do you have a recipe? I would love to surprise him sometime and make him some thanks Karen oh oh, I think I goofed in my reply. I think Pat Long eats scrapple, not snapple. Maybe she drinks snapple, not coffee? No, wait, if she's drinking all that other stuff... oh, I need more coffee! jane heggen
CGC test
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Thanks for puppy wart info!
You Guys are great!!! After getting all your emails with your advise and experience with puppy warts, I canceled Jasper's surgery. And of course since then the warts are getting smaller and I know will soon be gone. You have saved Jasper the pain of surgery and of course my bank account that has been suffering since paying for my Diesel's illness and death in april and then losing my beloved bassethound Roscoe jan 4th, the medical bills are astounding but it does not stop us from taking care of our furkids that we love with all our hearts. My Jasper misses his grandpa Roscoe as we all do and I know that my Diesel is watching over me and helping me train Jasper and probably laughing at the sight. So thanks to all who helped me make a great choice. I really did not want to put Jasper through anymore stress. Hope you all had a wonderful Valentines day with you berners. Thanks again, Karen and Kalynn Butcher Jasper Jax {Best Bet's Rock My World} In Memory of : Bearsdens Diesel Dazzler CGC, RXPET.12/12/90-4/7/02 Roscoe P. Coal Train RXPET 3/31/88-1/4/03
kidney disease
Does anyone have any experience with or knowledge of kidney disease most likely as a result of genetic immune system problems? My 4 year old male is in the stages of kidney failure and is on IV fluids at the vet's while tests are being run. There may not be enough live kidney left to sustain his body and his prognosis does not look good. If anyone has experienced this or knows of any treatments I would be grateful for any information. He was diagnosed with diabetes insipidus a couple of years ago and has also had thyroid problems. This is quite a shock as he went from being his normal self to near death in 2 days. Kathy Platt Bloomington, Indiana Shersan's Lucky Shamrock Rocky Ch Stonehill's Inherit the Wind Spencer Ch Skylyn's Custom Classic Cody Skylyn's Sun Spirit of Rocky Creek Spirit
Photo of the first Costco Berner
Does anyone have a digital photo of the original stuffed Bernese Mt Dog that Costco came out with a few years ago. The first one laying down. I need it for a raffle and I only have the 2nd one here at the house. Please email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and thank you in advance. Terri Zimmerman, Zephyr, Zaltana, Zion, Kita Zodiac, gone from this earth but not from this heart. Washington State, USA Puget Sound with clouds, moss and lots of mud puddles.
Adding a second Berner
Hi Cindy, We brought another berner baby into our home about 5 months ago. It has been a joy and a workout. It is a lot of work, but I am facinated daily by the interactions between our dog and the pup. We have a 2 1/2 yo neutered male, Griffin and a 7 month old spayed female, Loki. How our lives have changed: 1.I had forgotten how mentally and physically taxing puppies are. The good part is, it is much easier to distract the puppy from doing bad things because the older dog is there to play with, or sometimes annoy! Griffin sometimes needs a break from the Lokimaniac. 2.I think that the hair factor has increased by more than 100% because they run around a lot inside together and wrestle a fair amount. Before, Griffin mostly slept when he was inside or followed me around. We did most playing outdoors. 3.We get a discount at the self-serve dog wash for using the same tub for two dogs. 4.We pick up twice as much poop out of the yard. 5.My husband and I each get a cuddlebug dog when we watch movies. 6.We get twice as many Berner kisses. 7.When we go to the park, I know they'll have another dog to play with. 8.I'll be extra warm when we go camping. 9.Training is funny because I'll be working with Loki and Griffin will be doing every command at a distance expecting to get a treat. I guess you have to be there to see it! 10.I think now that I have two Berners, I hope I will always have two. I love watching them interact and I'm facinated by their different personalities! If you want to see pictures of them together, you can go to our website @ www.mcmm.net Bernerly yours, Melissa, Griffin, Loki (Portland,OR)
Another Canine Good Citizen!
I'm proud to announce that Timber passed his Canine Good Citizen Test (CGC) this morning! He gave me high five's after ever exercise and we had so much fun together! He did all of the exercises really well. I am so proud of my sweet, loveable, huggable puppy!! Thank you to Sascha's Jamaica and Can. BIS BISS Ch. Bernina's Bach Bruno v. Lowenzehn for passing down their extraordinary temperaments. Timber is a total joy to love and work with. A big thank you to Rose Tierney for breeding such a lovely boy. He is the light of my life! Ruth Johnson Sascha's Woodman CGC (5 months) Ch Sunshine's Tundra Terra CGC CD (4 years) Tundra's Bells 'N Whistles (11 weeks)
Bloody urine results
I would like to thank everyone who has responded to my recent crisis. Tulie is doing really good today, working hard at holding the floor down. The Vet called and said it looks like it is a bladder/urinary tract infection. I was sent home yesterday with some Clavamox antibiotics, so it is almost 24 hours since Tulie has been on them now. They said to expect blood today, but should start to clear up. Tulie's RBC and WBC were fine, which is good news for the hemangiosarcoma I hope.The Liver and Kidney enzymes were fine. The urine test showed moderate amounts of bacteria and inflammatory cells. Her PH is 7.5, so that needs to come down a little. Thank you to all of you knowledgeable people on the list. I have not had any experience with this in human or canine. If it were just the blood, I wouldn't had been so worried, but the blood clots really paniced me. As long as all of this ends with the antibiotics, we will be fine. Tami Winner Merced, CA _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Repost - Sleeping with more than one dog
Susan, Thanks for reminding me of this, I found it in my Berner-L index under humor - thanks to Hugh who has the digests online temporarily!! Pat Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 13:50:29 -0700 (MST) From: Steve M Dudley To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Humor interlude! HOW TO SPEND A TWO-DOG NIGHT BY BEV RYBA I will address myself mostly to the rules for sleeping with two dogs. For the few who have already mastered this technique, I will later add a cat, although I urge beginners to leave the cat out. To achieve any sort of success, certain arbitrary conditions must be assumed, the first one being that you must have a king-sized bed. There is no point in lying down in anything smaller. While the size of the breed of dog is not important (people who sleep with dogs know that before the night is over everybody collects into a pile), the condition of the dogs may be. Very thin dogs, for example, are lumpier. I have selected the two-dog minimum because, as we shall see, it is the only way to stay in bed at all. The key word here is LEVERAGE. All dogs spend the night pressed tightly against their human bedfellows, but no two dogs ever sleep on the same side. This is, in part, an expression of the Let Sleeping Dogs Lie Principle. It is also to create leverage. Because the human being is always in the middle, held tightly in place by the dogs and by his blanket (which the dogs are sleeping on top of), restlessness and recurring cramps are difficult to handle. Here is the tip: When you first lie down, AND BEFORE THE DOGS SETTLE AGAINST EACH SIDE OF YOU, spread your legs three inches apart. Stiffen and hold out NO MATTER HOW GREAT THE PRESSURE! When the time comes to turn over, bring the legs together quickly under the now slightly slackened blanket and revolve BEFORE THE DOGS WAKE UP. As soon as you have assumed a new position, allow for those crucial three inches again; otherwise, you're a mummy for the rest of the night. NEVER SPREAD THE LEGS MORE THAN THREE INCHES' A dog's favorite place to sleep is in the hollow created by legs too widely spread, and once settled, he and you are frozen into position until morning. (There is a way out of this trap, but it is difficult to describe without slides). Dogs who prefer to sleep on their backs MUST BE GIVEN SPACE THREE TIMES THE HEIGHT OF THE DOG AT THE SHOULDER. Dogs who like pillows may be accommodated if you sleep on your side with the legs scissored so that each dog has an ankle for a chin rest. Above all, BEWARE OF CURLING! When the curl is reversed, both dogs are dislocated, resulting in low growls on both sides of you. When you are ready to add a cat, position is all important. All cats prefer to sleep in hollows, but NO CAT WILL SLEEP ON THE SAME SIDE AS A DOG. (Remember, you have only two sides). YOU MUST THEREFORE BECOME A TRIANGLE! Do this by assuming a horizontal diver's crouch, thereby creating not only three more-or less exclusive sides but two hollows as well. With one dog at your front, and the other against your back, the cat can curl into the hollow at the back of your bent knees, separated from both dogs. All will then sleep soundly. This entire technique still needs a lot of refinement. A method that deals with early morning scratching needs to be developed, and the problem of pretending to sleep while being closely scrutinized by various animals needs to be solved. _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: Virus type warning for Pay Pal Users
Thus far we have been lucky as of yet we have any received any of these emails. We use PayPal 3 to 4 times a week and sometimes more often than that. Thanks for posting the heads up Pat. Ray Pat Burgett Eaglecap Bernese Talee,Lexi,,Bell, Shadow Max www.goodbernerfood.com http://users.eoni.com/~eaglecap/ Draminski Ovulation Detector Rep
famous writer speaking on dogs
nothing new here, but I like the way he says it. This is from an interview with a writer named Jonathan Carroll: RT: Speaking of Petals, why do dogs figure so prominently in your works, particularly as figures of pathos? They seem to be bridge characters, conduits for fabulism... JC: ...the letters from there to here. People always ask, what's this dog thing? And I always say, dogs are like minor angels. They love you purely. They forgive you purely. They're happy to see you. You can wake a dog up at three in the morning and say, hey let's play ball, and they'll say OKAY! My wife won't do that. My son won't do that. My friends won't do that. Three o'clock in the morning-let's go get pizza! OKAY! We overlook these extraordinary qualities even though we wish they would manifest themselves in people. I always have bull terriers because they're funny and they're ugly. That's what I love about them. They look like little pigs walking around. They kind of sober you up and straighten you out when you're blue or you're angry. You look at this little pal sitting under your feet saying, Hey! Let's go out! And you say, Okay, let's go out. They remind you of reality. All I've done is ratcheted that up a little, so you have magical dogs. I like the idea that we're constantly surrounded by things that are angelic and supernatural-but we put them in this convenient, sort of degraded place because that's easier for us. RT: Biologists have been looking at dogs, at those qualities as evolutionary traits. The wolves that happened to come closest to the campfire got hooked in- JC: Right. It reminds me of James Michener's book The Source-there's a wonderful section about the first dog ever to be friendly with man-or that scene in Dances With Wolves where the wolf circles him for days, then takes the food out of his hands. I think there is a wonderful symbiosis between dogs and men, unless you're a monster and mistreat them. You serve each other's needs. I know my dog is a good friend of mine. Vilma Briggs (Kistner) Mt. Gilead, OH U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT Thirdtym's A Charm, CGC and Ted
Re: Dog Bath Tubs
Looking for a online place to get a dog bath tub. All ready checked Valley Vet and Foster Smith. They both have the one piece style and we are looking for the type that has a base and the tub sets on top so one does not have to kneel down to wash them. TIA Ray Pat Burgett Eaglecap Bernese Talee,Lexi,,Bell, Shadow Max www.goodbernerfood.com http://users.eoni.com/~eaglecap/ Draminski Ovulation Detector Rep
RE: update on he's afraid of crate
Cindy, It's great to hear Paws is making progress. One comment I wanted to make (but had forgotten): If the crate has solid sides, try smearing a little p-nut butter there for Paws to go in an lick off. At first it can be near the entrance, then farther and farther inside. If the crate is wire, try rigging up something you can smear p-b on. It does really work to make the crate a very special place where RGS (really good stuff) happens. Keep us posted on the progress and continued good luck, Jill with Indie and Gabby
Moses readmitted to Angell with pain, fever, ? neuro. symptoms
My sweet Bernerboy was readmitted to Angell Memorial Animal Hospital in Boston, Massachusetts this evening with fever, pain, and considerable difficulty remaining ambulatory. Moses' internal medicine specialist met us there; he told me, when I spoke to him on the phone, earlier, to bring Moses right to the hospital, as an emergency. They have called the neurologist to examine Moses as there might be some posturing. They will run blood work and do Xrays. Moses' prognosis is listed as guarded. The osteosarcoma could well have returned and I knew that this might happen, even with amputation and chemotherapy, which he has had, although these treatments offer the best guarantee for a remission. They will carefully examine his back and spine to determine if the problem might be in this area. My heart is heavy and I fight back tears. Moses tried to be so cheerful and cooperative, very typical of him, in the hospital, even though he was feeling so unwell. Lisa Allen _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
Re: Dog Bath Tubs
We just built our house (what a pain!) and had a dog room put in w/ crates, grooming table, and elevated tub just for the dogs. It was much cheaper to buy a seconds regualr human bathtub at Home Depot and just have that put up on a secure platform and eclosed. The builder put in a few steps for them and presto! Bigger and sturdier and about half the price of a dog tub. The builder asked me how high I wanted it, so I stood there and held my hands out straight in front of me and said my dogs are all about 26 inches tall, so 26 inches down from here! Works great. Besides, mine probably think they are human anywayor perhaps they think we are canine! :-) Vilma Briggs (Kistner) Mt. Gilead, OH U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT Thirdtym's A Charm, CGC and Ted
Re: Dog Bath Tubs
It was much cheaper to buy a seconds regualr human bathtub at Home Depot and just have that put up on a secure platform and eclosed. That is exactly what I did when I had a boarding and grooming kennel, back in Michigan. Worked great You can also pick up used tubs when people are remodelling their homes. Just ask contractors. Also, along the same lines..old hydrolic salon chairs make great bases for grooming tables. Just take off the seat and build a plywood box, and cover with matting. Instant, stable, table that goes up and down and spins. :) Plus you can easily build in a drawer for all your items. Happy grooming. Barb down the Jersey shore __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com
Berner Cell phone faceplates
Does anyone have the website that sold the Berner cell phone faceplates last year? Thanks. Gary Penny Turner Gary A Turner First National Bank Network Engineeer
Re: Dog Bath Tubs
Check out http://www.pawsforthought.com/ . They have the booster bath and are less expensive than anyone else I've found. I love these tubs and have finally ordered one Susan Ablon Gweebarra BMD Balch Springs, Tx http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:19:43 -0800 Ray Pat Burgett [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Looking for a online place to get a dog bath tub. All ready checked Valley Vet and Foster Smith. They both have the one piece style and we are looking for the type that has a base and the tub sets on top so one does not have to kneel down to wash them. TIA Ray Pat Burgett Eaglecap Bernese Talee,Lexi,,Bell, Shadow Max www.goodbernerfood.com http://users.eoni.com/~eaglecap/ Draminski Ovulation Detector Rep
Franklin Tennessee show
Anybody out there planning on going to the Franklin Tennessee show? Carol Bailey
Tubs, tubes and tummies
Thanks for the link to the Booster Tub, Susan! I have been looking for one of those washer/washing attachments ever since New England Serum stopped carrying them. Warm baths here in the winter months consist of loading up 4 dirty Berners at a time and hauling them to my vet's on the weekend. Since the groomer isn't there on the weekend, he rents me the tub, dryer, etc. It's great ... till it's time to haul out the shop vac and try and catch all the Berner hair that's everywhere! The collection tubes for the cancer study at Fred Hutchinson came. Rebecca has gladly donated to the control group, as any gracious lady over 10 years old would do :) She also appreciated that her doggie sitter is a retired vet tech so we did the blood pulls at home. Of course for all her effort, she got a cookie Rebecca, that is; not Julie, the doggie sitter :) One suggestion I'm going to make to Heidi Parker at FHCRC is that they have a return address label on the containers they send out. I received this canister with a metal top addressed to myself with no return address label on it. My husband asks, What did you have coming from Ebay in that? My mind draws a blank. Then he says, Maybe it's some leftover Anthrax. Umm, I think. Check the postmark and it's from WA now, who do I know in WA that would be sending me a canister? On to tummies: We have 7 new little Berner tummies here! Reba is doing everything she can to keep them full and happy. She's succeeding... mostly :) Want to know where dogs learn to work for a reward? Watch a litter nursing. They work their little hearts out tugging and kneading and sucking as hard as they can and all of a sudden, their efforts pay off and they are rewarded with a tummy full of fresh, warm milk. Off to rub a few of those little tummies .. Tailwags, Cathy Burlile, Memories BMDs
Progression of Moses' illness
Yes, Berners can go rather quickly from being fine to, sometimes, quite ill. That is why Moses' quickly going from having a little more trouble walking to almost collapse did not surprise me as much as it might a new Berner owner, as I have been owned by the breed for twenty years. I cannot sleep. This is 99.9% because I am worried about Moses and the rest is due to the fact that my other dog, Piber, has been following me back and forth from bed to couch and, of course, is always allowed to share both with me even if it means I have only room to curl my late middle-aged body up into a ball. Too, I realized that due to the events of the day, what with Moses' decline and admission to Angell, I had neglected to partake of the four or five or whatever food groups. So, I am sipping on the requisite Diet Coca Cola and munching on a lightly buttered pastry. Moses has been ill for two years, starting with immune-mediated polyarthritis, becoming or merging with age-related degenerative arthritis, and, then, in late 2002, being diagnosed with bone cancer and being treated for such (amputation, chemo. His medical care, the very best, has exceeded the twenty thousand dollars mark; I don't care; I just want my sweet boy to live well and be happy, as with any family member. Lisa Allen _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail