Re: Prong Collars
I have stayed out of this discussion so far as my experience with prong collars is only second hand. However when we were in Germany in 1990 we watched two good Rottie friends (very experienced trainers) trying to deprogramme a German Shepherd that had been trained on a prong collar. The owner had been told this was the way to go but I think he was very inexperienced and the dog had suffered quite a lot. A great deal of patience and love used to try and get him right again. I was also shocked to see a 6 month old Rottie pup wearing a prong collar at his home. I must say that the training of Rotties that we saw generally was very motivational and kind. Here in S Africa prongs are not allowed by our Kennel Union, although some of the private training groups do use them. In all our training of Rottweilers and now Bernese we have never found it necessary to use such equipment, but I accept the comments of others with perhaps more experience that us that sometimes there are dogs that might benefit from the correct use of them. By the way I am just over 5 feet tall and weight about 53kgs :-) Marion Brown Teversal Bernese Mountain Dogs South Africa Dogs Never Lie About Love (Jeffrey Masson) - Original Message - From: THOMAS SLIDER [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 9:06 PM Subject: Re: Prong Collars I use a prong collar on my 130# berner-boy, Ian if we are going places that he might lunge or pull my arm off! g Normally he is good on a round leather collar and will stay by my side. I feel it is better than choking him on a choke collar which can do damage to his throat area. He behaves better and it is a gentle pressure all around his neck area, if used properly. I once left the prong collar on him when I put him in his car crate and could not understand why he would not get out when we got home. He had gotten it caught at the far end of the crate and I had to crawl in with him to release it. Talk about a TIGHT squeeze for both of us!! But he forgave me.. :-)) Carol Slider in NC
Re: Prong Collars
forwarded in plain text for Vilma: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: German Shepherd that had been trained on a prong collar. The owner had been told this was the way to go but I think he was very inexperienced and the dog had suffered quite a lot. A great deal of patience and love used to try and get him right again. Poor dog! But I would say this has to do w/ the trainer, not the training tool. One can also be quite abusive to a dog w/ your voice and/or handsthat doesn't mean that voice and hands are bad tools, just incorrectly used tools. The worst cases of down dogs I have seen have been those trained (jerked around) w/ a choke collar by someone who thought he/she knew what he/she was doing. Damage to the trachea is also a big concern w/ choke collars. Also, we can agree to disagree. We can politely discusss the merits and drawbacks of training methods. Ex: While I personally don't like or recommend choke collars or invisible fences/electronic collars for training, it doesn't mean there aren't some people/dogs who do fine w/ them. And sometimes my personal preferences (clicker training and a buckle collar, head halter or pinch collar - in that order) aren't always the right choice either. The DOG will tell you. Listen to him -- watch his ears, tail, body language. To be a really good dog trainer, you want to have lots of tools in your tool chest as one well known trainer told methen you have many options for each individual handler/dog combo. Vilma Briggs (Kistner) Mt. Gilead, OH U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT Thirdtym's A Charm, CD Hob Nob Clouds In My Coffee (puppy Perc) and foster Bernerboy: Brew/Bruin (Pat Long's dog 2B) Check any e-mail over the Web for free at MailBreeze (http://www.mailbreeze.com)
Bernese retrived after 3 1/2 years
Just watched the story of Linman's dog Jackson on ABC TV morning show. Someone stole his dog 3 1/2 years ago in Washington DC. Linman had created a web site, bornidentity.com trying to find the dog. The kidnappers called him just now with a bribe for money to get the dog back. Police moved in and he got his dog. Of course Jackson is a Bernese Mt.Dog (with lots of white on back neck). Linman is a tv guy just shooting a new show in Orange County. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Re: sweet rescue Berner mix - happy ending!
forwarded in plain text for Vilma (and I'll also say that I still think it's just as possible that Buzz is a purebred as it is that he's a mix!): Just wanted to thank everyone who helped me w/ the sweet little Berner mix, Buzz, who we rescued in the nick of time from the Ohio shelter. Buzz has been neutered, vaccinated, heartworm tested, evaluated and placed w/ a wonderful home, actually a friend of our own Joye Neff. I also had 3 other families also come out to visit who wanted him and several others interested who I had to turn away. I only had him 2 weeks, but was really quite fond him. He is a great dog (so nice to foster a normal dog for a change!) and is in a wonderful loving home. (Oh, and if anyone is interested in a really CUTE little 3 yr old 10 lb female Jack Russell Terrier, my husband rescued Daisy from an abuse situation recently.) Vilma Briggs (Kistner) Mt. Gilead, OH U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT Thirdtym's A Charm, CD Hob Nob Clouds In My Coffee (puppy Perc) and foster Bernerboy: Brew/Bruin (Pat Long's dog 2B) Check any e-mail over the Web for free at MailBreeze (http://www.mailbreeze.com)
Re: BERNER-L digest 4527-prong collars/hip dysplasia
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Re: grooming question
In a message dated 8/3/2003 11:06:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: and keep rinsing until the water runs clear of hair debris and soap suds... Hello everyone, Water pressure is a problem at our house and getting all of the soap and debris out used to be quite a chore. While I don't usually plug products, we did come across an item at a dog show that has helped us out a lot in the bathing process. If you are interested go to www.dogwashcompany.com and check out the pet nozzle and hose. There are about 7-8 different nozzle setting and directions that work great. Best wishes, Robin Hamme ShadyOak BMDs Evansville, IN, USA
Link to Anxiety Wrap Product
Hi All ~ I am behind in reading my digests so forgive me if someone has already posted information about the anxiety wrap. If not, here is an informative site. A HREF=http://www.anxietywrap.com/anxietywrap.htm;Click here: Anxiety Wrap - Anxiety Wrap Product/A Helen Hollander, CPDT The Educated Pup, LLC Lawrence, NY
Anxiety wrap (URL typed out)
Hi All ~ The following is an informative link about the anxiety wrap. sorryin my previous post, I forgot to type out the address for those that may not be able to click onto the link http://www.anxietywrap.com/anxietywrap.htm Helen Hollander, CPDT The Educated Pup, LLC Lawrence, NY
Re: BERNER-L digest 4528/the tackle
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Re: Boris' book site
At 08:43 PM 03/08/2003 -0500, you wrote: Boris' Book site is: http://members.rogers.com/bernerboris/bernerbooks.html Thanks to Wendy Beard and all the contributors, it's a great site! Thanks Pat! Actually, I've been rather lax recently and not done any updates in a while. If anybody spots any broken links or wants to recommend a new book that isn't listed, please drop me and Boris a line! Wendy Boris Beard Ottawa, Canada http://members.rogers.com/bernerboris/bernerbooks.html
Ms. Bandit turns 7
Bandit turned 7 this weekend and for those that know her understand why I'm so happy!! May Bandit have many more happy birthday's at the beach rollin' in the sand:) _ Binay Curtis and Bandit in San Francisco, CA _
RE: mouthy puppy
OK, now, I don't want to get flamed here, it's not like this is a prong collar, right? I just give the puppy the finger he/she wants; far enough down the throat to get a mild gag reflex a couple of times. Half a dozen times of that seems to associate biting me with no fun, and they stop. Mind you, I am NOT talking about sticking my finger down the throat and doing damage, just back to the point where I get a bit of a gag. I also yip and carry on piteously when they bite someplace else. They seem to find that strange enough that it helps, too. - Richard Ray Jackson Hole, WY -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave or Stephanie Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 4:22 PM To: Brandon Diem; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: mouthy puppy Hi Brandon, This is going to sound silly and I felt very silly doing it when my girl used to be a little biting monster but it really works. When she bites you, let out a loud yip like a littermate would do if she bit them to hard and stop playing with her. Eventually she will hopefully get the hint that she is doing something wrong when she bites you too hard. I'm sure that others on the list will give you some other great ideas to try also. This is just what worked well for my girl. Good luck! Stephanie Heeter and Brina N. Edwards, CA - Original Message - From: Brandon Diem [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 3:07 PM Subject: mouthy puppy I have a 8 week old Berner pup and for the past week she has become increasingly more mouthy. My arms, hands, toes, pant legs and any other nearby close appendage or article of clothing has to be in her mouth and squeezed hard with those little razor teeth. My wife and I have correctively placed chew toys in her bear trap for a mouth when ever she begins this behaviour but she is only fooled by the decoy for a few moments before she wages her next assult. I have adopted the habit of spraying down my sweet flesh with bitter apple spray before a session with my monster. This seems to keep her actions at bay until the potency subsides, generally after 2 minutes. I do realize she is just a little pup and she really is a sweetheart when not in attack mode, but I am wondering if anyone has had success with correcting this behavior. Ignoring the problem has just made her squeeze her chompers harder. I have 2-3 more weeks before her final shots, which translate to 2-3 more weeks before she begins obedience training and playdates (battle sessions)with other dogs. Thanks, Brandon _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
car barriers
Hi guys, We just got a new mini-van (dog-mobile!) and need to get a barrier for the back for our 3yr old Bernerboy. We were looking at several different kinds on-line but I can only find a Kennel-Aire barrier here at a local store. We're trying to find one that will be secure enough for our 115 pound boy and someday (hopefully sooner than later!) a 2nd puppy pal for him, but also one that won't scratch up the new van!!! Couldn't tell much from the box of the one in the store, but anyone have any experiences with car barriers or any suggestions? Thanks! Nikki Walsh and Edgar N9307-012
Marrow bones in Toronto
Hi: I am wondering if anyone knows where I could buy marrow bones cheaply in bulk in the Toronto area. I get them at Loblaws and Sobey's, but they are not really that much cheaper than meat at those stores. The butchers here in Bloor West village neither sell them nor give them away. Please respond directly to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you know of a source in 416, or reasonably close in 905. Thanks Steve Coupland Toronto
[no subject]
Hi All! Very concerned mommy heremy six month berner boy barnum got fixed and was having his belly button hernia repaired over the weekend well my Dr. call me late in the evening that barnum was OK but only a hour after surgery was very bruised and ouzzing...and has never seen this for such routine procedure.and of course didn't sleep a wink that night worried about my poor 80lb boythe Doc is running a bunch of blood tests.he says that there is a possibility of von wilderbrane(if i am spelling correct)if this a common disease in berners. has anyone encountered such a problem for a nuder he is so bruised from the top of his belly all the way passed his scrotum.so nervous. come to think of it we had problems with our bailey as well when she was fixed.(different hospital) they had to operate a 2nd time cause she had an infection. My kids are going to be the death of me Welcome to my circus... Dana West Milford, NJ
Re: mouthy puppy
When both our boys were puppies, we were their favorite chew-toy, so we employed the OW method every time they bit. It worked wonders. They were both quick to pull back, then try to bite again, but gentler and gentler each time until they finally decided we were complete sissies and quit altogether. Andie and Tugboat and Steamboat Wilmington, NC
strange poop
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Re: mouthy puppy
In a message dated 08/04/2003 12:35:57 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I also yip and carry on piteously when they bite someplace else. They seem to find that strange enough that it helps, too. In most cases, this only works on young puppies, less than 4 mos. of age. Once they get to the 3 or 4 mo. stages, the noise seems to incite them to bite harder; it seems the prey drive is starting to overtake the inhibition. For the little older puppies, the ignoring them and giving them a time out seems to work better. Just remove their object of play (you) for a few minutes. What we really need them to learn is not so much not to put their mouth near us, but to inhibit or moderate the pressure. If you watch two well socialized dogs play, you will see lots of wrestling, lots of open mouth biting and growling, but no one is hurt, just lots of shared drool G. These are dogs who have learned that bite inhibition allows play, bite too hard and the game ends. Anne Copeland (Flash CGC, TDIA, 9 yrs. old, Berner; Gypsy CGC, TDI, 2 yrs. old, Cavalier) Northern Illinois [EMAIL PROTECTED], Corr. Sec. BMDCA
Fw: Appenzeller rescue
- Original Message - From: Bonnie Huett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Coral and David Denis [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Beverly Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ronka150 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Margaret Poole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 7:41 AM Subject: Appenzeller rescue Hi All, Just wanted to let you know that Saro the 10 year old Appenzeller has arrived at his new home in Knoxville, TN. Chery Kendrick, a retired veterinarian has adopted him and brought him home to live with her, her partner, an Appenzeller mix, a Carolina Terrier (not sure that that is??), a kitty and some horses on their lake front property there in Knoxville. Fortunately, this little guy has found the perfect home! Bonnie Huett
Re: mouthy puppy
This is going to sound silly and I felt very silly doing it when my girl used to be a little biting monster but it really works. When she bites you, let out a loud yip like a littermate would do if she bit them to hard and stop playing with her. Not silly at all! I've always done this with my pups too! There is a very good article on Puppy Biting by Dr Ian Dunbar, find it here. http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm All love, Jean, Sunny, Sim, Barney and the Gang XX http://bernese.biz
Re: vWD question
reposted: (she did it in plain text, but AOL sometimes garbles it!): Hi All! Very concerned mommy heremy six month berner boy barnum got fixed and was having his belly button hernia repaired over the weekend well my Dr. call me late in the evening that barnum was OK but only a hour after surgery was very bruised and ouzzing...and has never seen this for such routine procedure.and of course didn't sleep a wink that night worried about my poor 80lb boythe Doc is running a bunch of blood tests.he says that there is a possibility of von wilderbrane(if i am spelling correct)if this a common disease in berners. has anyone encountered such a problem for a nuder he is so bruised from the top of his belly all the way passed his scrotum.so nervous. come to think of it we had problems with our bailey as well when she was fixed.(different hospital) they had to operate a 2nd time cause she had an infection. My kids are going to be the death of me Welcome to my circus... Dana West Milford, NJ _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
Treatment for carcinoma
One of my pups (I do not own her but am her breeder; she will be 8 in September) has cancer. It is aggressive and initially I received word that she had histio - however, the lab report was not back yet. Then it turned out the sample was too bloody to evaluate. So poor Annie went to CSU and was aspirated again. This time the report came back not as histio, but as carcinoma. It is still bad news for Annie, but I am breathing a little easier for her relatives. However, it is still tearing me up. We had a little get-together with Annie and a few close-by littermates to celebrate her while she still feels good and looks good. Her owners' main concern is doing what is best for Annie. This is very hard on them and I think the best I can do for them, is gather some info on treatment experiences others have had - chemo, holistic, etc. They want to know how the treatments affect the dog's quality of life. There is a tumor that is impacting her bowel activity. She has to go on vigorous walks in order to be able to eliminate. One of the options was to get a biopsy sample surgically, but then she would have had to be kept quiet for a week - which could have left her very uncomfortable. If she doesn't have much time left, her family wants it to be as high quality as possible - so they opted to not do that. They are very open to treatment, money is not an issue, quality of life is. She has had several ultrasounds and aspirate samples done. Out here in Colorado, a chemo treatment costs about $350 per treatment, I think they are about 3 weeks apart. I know there have been several posts about chemo lately and I am going to go dig those out of the archives. If anyone has had specific experience treating carcinoma, I would appreciate hearing from you. However, any cancer treatment options, and how well your dog tolerated the treatment, and how much time it bought, would be very appreciated as well. Eight years is just not long enough - and I know it is still longer than many of our Berners get, but I do not think I will ever be able to get used to losing dogs in the prime of their lives. Please, share info in Berner-Garde and help us breeders be able to make informed breeding decisions. These are not problems to hide under the carpet. (At Jean's Longlease site, I am personally impressed by the photos that include the dog's registered name.) I am preparing to breed Annie's niece and was devastated to possibly have histio that close, knowingly... so if I had known upfront that Tanzi had an aunt with histio I was going to be a little more strict on what amount of known histio I could deal with in the stud's pedigree, and possibly breed her to an older stud who did not have any littermates with histio. I don't plan all breedings that way, because histio is just one piece of the breeding puzzle. It is all about compromise. I am now back to being able to take a chance on a younger dog again! When you breed to a 2-year-old dog you can't predict how many of his littermates will still be around at age 7 - but when you have a low incidence of histio on the bitch's side I personally will take that risk. Tanzi's granddam is over 12 and I recently submitted a sample for the control group (dogs over 10 not diagnosed with histio) of the Fred Hutchinson study. We were prepared to send her daughter Annie's sample for the affected group, but at this time that appears to be unnecessary. Histio is basically lurking somewhere in all of our pedigrees, so it is not that I would never breed a dog with a close relative who had histio... just that if my bitch has a close relative with histio, I would not want to breed her to a dog whose sire/dam (for example)died of histio... and to be more certain about that, it would be necessary to breed her to an older stud whose own sire/dam was at least 9 years old, so far histio free... Again, there are really no absolutes, just methods for reducing but not eliminating risk... You have to give in on something because if you are not willing to compromise, you would not be able to breed! I realize some people think not breeding is the answer to all this misery, but I don't see how shrinking the gene pool solves anything long term. I have had a big reality check in the past few weeks, but one thing I know is I still want to go forward with breeding in my own small-scale way. Thanks for any treatment info you can send my way - Sharon Montville - Firstrax Bernese - Colorado Hailey, Zyla (Annie's sister), Blaze, Tanzi __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
snapping in puppies
All, My friend the new Berner parent has been seeing some behavior that is disturbing her in her new puppy, Orbo. He has now growled and snapped several times at his 11 year old caretaker and her mother. Once when she was taking off his leash, and a couple of times when they tried to put him in his crate. He has been jumping out of his exercise pen and also struggles and pitches a fit during obedience training during the settle (of course, mine did that too - they just don't like settle much). She has talked to the breeder and she offered to take the dog back and refun their money, but I hate to think that a solution that drastic is called for. Has anyone had any experience with this? Thanks for your help, Andie in Wilmington NC
Re: snapping in puppies
- Original Message - From: Andie Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] She has talked to the breeder and she offered to take the dog back and refun their money, but I hate to think that a solution that drastic is called for. Has anyone had any experience with this? I strongly recommend a nothing in life is for free approach to training, with positive rewards as the basis of the training. Jean Donaldson's The Culture Clash is a very readable place to start; also, the pup and people should enroll in a good obedience school ASAP. This might work out just fine, but, if the family is inexperienced or laid back and inclined to let things slide instead of being very firm and consistent all the time in training, then this might not be the pup for them. He sounds like a very dominant fellow in need of a firm, fair, and consistent owner. He might do well in a working home with someone who wants to give him a job to do and who will expect him to do it well. It is not a terrible thing to realize you need a different personality puppy--something like my Lliira, who would be OK with inconsistent training and expectations. In the big picture, if these folks don't have enough experience or innate alpha-ness to really lead this bossy and apparently at least somewhat aggressive puppy, they are better off with a different personality pup and HE is better off in a firmer home environment. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 7/24/2003
North Coast Bernese Mountain Dog Draft Test
The NCBMDC of Ohio will hold it's Draft test on Oct. 25th in Canfield, Ohio. Entries close Oct. 15th. The Three Rivers Club will be holding a test at the same site the following day - I'm sure info for their test will be forthcoming. For information on the NCBMDC of Ohio please contact Lisa christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] or Wendy Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] sue Sanvido
Fw: snapping in puppies
Dear Andie, First, I would make SURE that pain was not the issue. If the pup has something going in his neck/back area, anything that puts strain on the neck and sometimes causes pain can condition a response to the expectation of pain. If we are 200% absolutely sure that cannot be the case, then step two. Evaluate the pup and the handler. A pup that is that reactive is gonna be a handful of dog. If the family is not both ok with a very reactive dog and willing to put in the time and consistent house rules such a dog requires to be happy and safe, now is the time to speak up- while the pup is still little, cute and marketable. In the right hands, a dog like this can be perfectly safe and sometimes even a high achieving performance dog, in the wrong hands these dogs can end up rehomed or euthanized for temperment issues. My horse had a very dominant personality and one of my dogs had a very submissive personality- however both were very reactive animals. Although in species, motivation for their reactions and the way they reacted were very different, each required firm and fair handling, patience and complete awareness of things that might set them off and a back-up plan if they did go off. I think that training these two animals helped make me a much better trainer, but I was always a very strong willed thing and give up was just not in my vocabulary. If I was afraid of or wishy-washy with my horse, she would run all over me and be a menace to herself and others. If I was not confident and patient with my dog, he would freak out and be a menace to himself and possibly others. If there are experienced obedience people in town for club or private lessons, it would not be a bad idea to ask them for opinions on the dog/handler match and suggestions for experienced trainers in the area. Best of luck, I would be interested in hearing how this turns out. Christy Varhaug-Houston, TX With Berners- Rhett Alibi in the house U-AGII Star CDX, FDX HIC NAC NJC U-ATCH U-CDX Deuce AX OAJ CDX AD NAC NGC NJC NDD (the submissive/reactive) at the bridge with Arabian Horse- Sheba, gone but not forgotten - Original Message - From: Andie Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Berner List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 4:42 PM Subject: snapping in puppies All, My friend the new Berner parent has been seeing some behavior that is disturbing her in her new puppy, Orbo. He has now growled and snapped several times at his 11 year old caretaker and her mother. .. She has talked to the breeder and she offered to take the dog back and refun their money, but I hate to think that a solution that drastic is called for. Has anyone had any experience with this?
Mast cell cancer
Jorda's mast cell tumor was located, to the best of my recollection, on the same spot on which the Hartung's Berner's tumor was discovered. I do not recall the grade of Jorda's tumor. It appeared when she was four years old, in 1990. Treatment was, initially, surgical removal. My dogs' veterinarian, Dr. Marks, who has provided them with the most excellent medical care since 1983, removed the tumor and margins were clear. Dr. Marks' skills as a surgeon are superb. Then, Jorda was prescribed a medication beginning with a T. (Tagamet???) Too, every six months we Xrayed the areas to which mast cell cancer might spread. Jorda, my second Berner, lived until the age of thirteen years two weeks two days, when my sweet and sensitive girl lost a very brief battle with large cell lymphoblastic lymphosarcoma. Lisa Allen (Dr. Marks would have the answers to name of medication, grade of her tumor, etc.) _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: Helderberg Match and Updates!
Give a fellow a chance! http://www.helderbergbmd.com/pic2004/page1.htm http://www.bakersberneseblessings.com/mikkeb_day/Mikki_12.html - Original Message - From: Jean Cheesman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 7:04 PM Subject: Helderberg Match and Updates! Hi All! Great pics just came in that I uploaded from the Bakers' Folks that were there! Such fun! Anyone else there with pics please send me, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Also just updated Friends Gallery with Mike and Gertie! All Love, Jean, Sunny, Sim, Barney and the Longlease Gang http://bernese.biz
