Realities of puppies older Dogs!
Hi Rose, She can be a good girl about going outside just that sometimes she likes to roll in it. My first ever Bernese Tinka I inherited at seven or eight years! She was always immaculate except, anywhere near goose and duck shit, she would roll and get it all yukked up around the left ear!! First time she went to new Vet for booster shot after we moved to Longlease! Hah, my girl had good brush, looked wonderful! We arrived early, gentle stroll down by the river, oh, no! My Tinks arrives back at the surgery having done big roll so, always the left ear for some reason!, totally yuk and we were followed by a swarm of flies! Had to get inside and close the door fast! Ros, our new vet, was highly amused, she had watched us out the window! All love, Jean, Sunny, Simmy, Barney and the Gang X http://www.angelfire.com/anime3/longlease/index.htm
RE: Realities of puppies
Hi John, Five months is an approximation. Much has to do with the mental and physical development of the puppy. There will be exceptions either side of five months. Nothing is ever cast in stone:-)) Rose
RE: Realities of puppies
Hi Jean, Pups naturally want to be clean! I'll tell Wilma that:-) She can be a good girl about going outside just that sometimes she likes to roll in it. This is the fondue puppy who dips herself in mudholes. Why is it that Murphy's law makes a grubby puppy a heavy coated one:-)) Rose T.
RE: Realities of puppies
Hi Jean, Pups naturally want to be clean! I'll tell Wilma that:-) She can be a good girl about going outside just that sometimes she likes to roll in it. This is the fondue puppy who dips herself in mudholes. Why is it that Murphy's law makes a grubby puppy a heavy coated one:-)) Hmm, how about trying to roll on a dead vole? That was Molly's most earnest desire yesterday. Martha Hoverson and Molly (Gee, Mom, you and Dad are so fussy.) and Sam (What's a vole? Can we eat it? Does it taste as good as a bone? Does it taste as good as a pizza crust? Will Molly get it for me? Must...take...nap...) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Portland, Maine From: Rose Tierney [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: jean cheesman [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Realities of puppies Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:58:49 -0400 Hi Jean, Pups naturally want to be clean! I'll tell Wilma that:-) She can be a good girl about going outside just that sometimes she likes to roll in it. This is the fondue puppy who dips herself in mudholes. Why is it that Murphy's law makes a grubby puppy a heavy coated one:-)) Rose T. _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: Realities of puppies
On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:58:49 -0400 Rose Tierney [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why is it that Murphy's law makes a grubby puppy a heavy coated one:-)) You bring up an interesting point which I consider to be a dirt gene. I have a male that is very clean in many regards. He hates to get his feet wet, actually seems to enjoy a bath, avoids mud, but seems to love to roll in the most horrendous piles of you-know-what. His coat even when blown is still excessively thick . This gene is seen again in his daughter however like Pigpen on Charlie Brown she is dirty even immediately after the bath. Dirt seems to follow her and if by some chance it is slow catching up to her she too will roll in the same pile as daddy. While her coat isn't quite as thick as dad's, it is one of those long coats that takes care to groom. I would have to say it's not so much Murphy's law but a the Law of genetics (at least down here) Susan Ablon Gweebarra BMD Balch Springs, Tx http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara
Re: Realities of puppies
Martha, I wasn't aware that the question can we eat it? ever came up! I think mine go on the assumption that EVERYTHING is edible! Andie and the pig-dogs Tugboat and Steamboat, who just ate breakfast and now want to go outside and eat gumballs from the sweet gum tree. Martha Hoverson and Molly (Gee, Mom, you and Dad are so fussy.) and Sam (What's a vole? Can we eat it? Does it taste as good as a bone? Does it taste as good as a pizza crust? Will Molly get it for me? Must...take...nap...) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Portland, Maine From: Rose Tierney [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: jean cheesman [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Realities of puppies Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:58:49 -0400 Hi Jean, Pups naturally want to be clean! I'll tell Wilma that:-) She can be a good girl about going outside just that sometimes she likes to roll in it. This is the fondue puppy who dips herself in mudholes. Why is it that Murphy's law makes a grubby puppy a heavy coated one:-)) Rose T. _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail -- Andie Reid Wilmington, NC
Re: Realities of puppies
also I have read that to make the reward for going outside realy effective, you should be present (at least the first few times) to make that reward IMMEDIATE with praise, otherwise, there is possibly confusion that the reward is for asking to go outside or something else. Stick with that first few weeks you try and make sure pup is outside to go which requires great vigilance on your part! Watch out for excited pups, this is when they are most likely to lose it! Pups soon get the hang of it! Ohh! Confess! Have only actually ever house trained one pup when I lived in London! Was hard work! My later pups have been from when I moved here to Welsh Borders, UK! Didn't have to train them, they followed the cats out though the flap and trained themselves! Pups naturally want to be clean! All love, Jean, Sunny, Simmy, Barney and the Gang X http://www.angelfire.com/anime3/longlease/index.htm
RE: Realities of puppies
Hi Jean, Actually puppies do not have the ability tohold it until they are five months old. What happens with these star pupil puppies is that their owners are more vigilant:-) Rose
RE: Realities of puppies
Rose, I don't believe it's that simple. IMHO It's not whether they can hold it at a certain age but how long and how well can they hold it. For example, a 4 month old puppy can certainly hold it for 10 or 15 seconds while the owner takes him outside. Both my Berner and my Swissy have demontrated the ability to hold it for a very short time while I walk to the back door and open it up. As soon as the pups step off the back patio onto the grass they squat and pee - there's no wandering around for a few seconds. Also, at night it took maybe 20 - 30 seconds for me to get out of bed, let them out of their kennels, lead them to the back door, and let them outside. Once again they didn't potty until they got to the grass and then it was immediate. I wouldn't expect them to be able to hold it for very long though. Certainly not 5 minutes or even 2 miutes. Heck, 1 minute is probably too long for them to hold it. I do agree that vigilance is a requirement - you cannot let the puppy out of your sight for even a second. That's no exageration. You don't get to read the newspaper, watch TV, prepare a meal, or do anything else while the puppy is loose in the house. John Engstrom Plano, TX Enzo - The 6 month old housetrained Berner Schumi - The 4 month old Swissy who is slowly catching on Rose Tierney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jean, Actually puppies do not have the ability tohold it until they are five months old. What happens with these star pupil puppies is that their owners are more vigilant:-) Rose _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: Realities of puppies
Hi, I use the newspapermethod. If the pup can have his/her own toilet indoors, for a while, it will make the puppyhood so much easier for you all. All bernerpups grows very fast and sooner or later they all will use the outdoors toilet. I think it takes a little longer time for boys, but all are different. One trainer told me many years ago, never say good girl/good boy when the pup are doing what they should outdoors. It just make the pup very confused. Just let it happen and fine. Save the praises for other occations. And, of course, do not be unkind to the pup when accidents happens away from the newpaper toilet. Pups are just babies and never naughty. Enjoy every minute of your pups first weeks in your home...times will come when you long for these weeks of puppyhood caring and sometimes sleepless nights. And to sleep beside the pup on the floor the first weeks will give you a close friend forever. Love and hugs to all dogs, both pups and adults! Vincent and Margareta Stockholm
Re: Realities of puppies
I use the newspapermethod. If the pup can have his/her own toilet indoors, for a while, it will make the puppyhood so much easier for you all. I do this too and even though they are now starting to ask to go out at 12 weeks, I still have one set of papers on the floor just in case my male pup prefers the dog bed for some reason but the girl has gotten especially good about asking to go out when she needs to poop. I do praise though and even if it is raining, as it has been here for weeks, I go out with them and cuddle and coo over them as soon as they finish. One thing I have found very helpful, and it continues to work with even my 11 year old berner, is I use key words. I say go wet when I want them to pee and will repeat it over and over. When they start to pee, I say good dog and go wet again and reward with lots of praise. For poop I say do your business over and over until they go. If they are going without a command I will say the command standing near the pup, who will usually look at me, then I smile and repeat the command then reward with praise when finished. I have been at hotels for dog shows and have taken my dogs out and said go wet or go do your business and they will get right to it. My younger two adults (age 3.5 years and 19 months) were raised in my new house off lead and I have found not teaching them to pee and poop on lead has been a problem, especially the 3 year old. I have to take him some where quiet and let him off leash and give the commands - he stays close and does what he needs to do but is not good about going on lead at all - we discovered that at Nationals last year after 3 accidents because he refused to poop on lead. I am taking my 12 week olds out on lead as well so they learn to go on and off lead. The 19 month old is pretty adaptable and she will make do but she was hesitant the first few times I wanted her to go on lead. I am working on house breaking my 6th and 7th berner and these methods have worked well for me. Molly Charlottesville, VA
RE: Realities of puppies
John, At five months a puppy that is in good health should be able to hold it having learned that the house is not a toilet. I am not talking about the few seconds one has to get a baby puppy out of the house to toilet train. IMO holding it pertains to a puppy being able to wait while awake for it's owner to enter the house, deposit the groceries in the kitchen and get the youngster outside or such similiar circumstances. Under five months and getting puppy out in time is always a priority. Having raised in excess of twenty Berners it has been my observation that gifted puppies that can cross their legs, until their eyes are floating, younger than five months are a rarity. Incontinence in a puppy six months and older needs to be investigated or management rethought. Rose T. -Original Message- From: John Engstrom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: June 3, 2003 1:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Realities of puppies Rose, I don't believe it's that simple. IMHO It's not whether they can hold it at a certain age but how long and how well can they hold it. For example, a 4 month old puppy can certainly hold it for 10 or 15 seconds while the owner takes him outside. Both my Berner and my Swissy have demontrated the ability to hold it for a very short time while I walk to the back door and open it up. As soon as the pups step off the back patio onto the grass they squat and pee - there's no wandering around for a few seconds. Also, at night it took maybe 20 - 30 seconds for me to get out of bed, let them out of their kennels, lead them to the back door, and let them outside. Once again they didn't potty until they got to the grass and then it was immediate. I wouldn't expect them to be able to hold it for very long though. Certainly not 5 minutes or even 2 miutes. Heck, 1 minute is probably too long for them to hold it. I do agree that vigilance is a requirement - you cannot let the puppy out of your sight for even a second. That's no exageration. You don't get to read the newspaper, watch TV, prepare a meal, or do anything else while the puppy is loose in the house. John Engstrom Plano, TX Enzo - The 6 month old housetrained Berner Schumi - The 4 month old Swissy who is slowly catching on Rose Tierney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jean, Actually puppies do not have the ability tohold it until they are five months old. What happens with these star pupil puppies is that their owners are more vigilant:-) Rose _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
RE: Realities of puppies
Rose Tierney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMO holding it pertains to a puppy being able to wait while awake for it's owner to enter the house, deposit the groceries in the kitchen and get the youngster outside or such similiar circumstances. Under five months and getting puppy out in time is always a priority. That's my point - if it's only been 30 minutes since the puppy has pottied then even the excitement of returning home from a quick trip to the grocery store probably won't cause the puppy to piddle inside. For a puppy the ability to hold it is based on many things including how full their bladder is and how excited they are. Having raised in excess of twenty Berners it has been my observation that gifted puppies that can cross their legs, until their eyes are floating, younger than five months are a rarity. How quickly do you think the ability to hold it develops? Certainly it's not that a puppy one day shy of 5 months can't hold it and the next day he's magically transformed and can hold it. Does it develop over the course of a couple days? A week? Two weeks? I believe that every puppy is different (not that I'm saying you don't believe that) and has to be observed and treated accordingly. John Engstrom - yeah, there's a grocery store 2 miles from my house and I have been there and back in 30 minutes. :-) Plano, TX _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Realities of puppies
Hi Sherri and All, When I've brought puppies home at 8 weeks or so, they could not physically make it through the night without having to pee. Too right! A wee pup brought home has to go when he/she has to go, takes a few more weeks before bladder comes under control. Best always to talk to your breeder before you bring pup home, have they trained to newspapers, sawdust? No pup will want to foul it's bed! But did have Mom there before to clean up! Is a Baby! I have brought up three pups! They have been sort of house trained, bar a few accidents within a few weeks. And very soon found the dog flap where they could go outside. Takes gentle encouragement, take pup out and praise when goes outside! Do not expect miracles. This is a baby and bladder control kicks in around 14 weeks so before then is up to you to make sure pup is outside and going in the right place and getting praise. Training here is up to you when you take on a pup, compare to a human baby in nappies and your Berner Pup will be fully house trained a lot sooner! And do not spare the cuddles and the praise, when pup arrives is wee babe and is scared, give lots of love and understanding and enjoy! Berner Pups become big Berners much too soon! All love, Jean, Sunny, Simmy, Barney and the Gang X http://www.angelfire.com/anime3/longlease/index.htm
Re: Realities of puppies
jean cheesman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Takes gentle encouragement, take pup out and praise when goes outside! If there's one thing that has helped me housetrain my two puppies (well, one is housetrained and the other isn't yet old enough to have complete control although he will run to the door when he needs to go) is to not only priase the pups when they go outside but to also give them a small treat. Sure, you go through a lot of treats but if you use healthy treats and cut back a little on their food they won't get fat. Also, be sure and give them priase and treats EVERY SINGLE TIME they potty outside. Consistency is a key to training. John Engstrom Plano, TX _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Re: ideas about WHY some grow older, and realities of puppies
In a message dated 5/31/2003 12:37:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Am I being totally unrealistic and I should expect to be up all night every night? I had the impression from what I read, that if you choose to crate train, the pup can make it through the night, or at least only have one potty break, if you take them directly outside before and after, and immediately reward the sniff..piddle...poop sequence outdoors. I've never found it quite that simple. When I've brought puppies home at 8 weeks or so, they could not physically make it through the night without having to pee. Also, the first couple of days are VERY stressful for most puppies...their entire world has been turned upside down, everything they've ever known is suddenly gone. Looking at it that way, I consider the first week to be a time of adjustment and bonding. It's when I want the puppy to learn to trust me, as his new leader, to fulfill his needs and keep him safe. To build that trust, I make a point of being very responsive to the pup's needs... When he gets restless in the middle of the night, I hear it and take him out to pee. If he crys or yelps during the night (usually only the first few nights, if at all) I'll lay down on the floor right next to the crate, talk to him in a calm voice (not oh...poor baby, just a reassuring I know this is scarey, I'm here..you don't have to be afraid kind of thing. I've settled on this 'middle road' to avoid being trained by the pup to humor him at his whim, while at the same time meeting his very real need for security and timely elimination. ~ Sherri Venditti
ideas about WHY some grow older, and realities of puppies
As one who awaits their first Berner puppy (visit set for late June and arrival home late July!!) , i have been reading with both excitement and trepidation about all the joys and pitfalls... I was just wondering if folks have any sense, scientifically based or not, as to WHAT might help a berner reach old age in good shape,putting aside the nasty uncontrollable stuff like cancers (of course, I suppose chemical free food and minimal vaccinations might help with that one..) . Perhaps NOT getting overfed? Or getting ENOUGH exercise? That seems true for humans, but I have no idea if it follows for dogs. My last dog long ago lived to 14, but as a retreiver/ samoyed, perhaps she would have made it to 18 if she'd had a slimmer frame and a bit more exercise at the end, when I was off at college... Just curious what people think about this topic. Do we think that having more than one dog adds to psychological/ social health in a way that extends life? Also, the post from the gentleman a day or so ago with the new pup who is peeing everywhere, staying up all night and destroying everything. And he is frazzled at work and going sleepless, etc. While HE might enjoy that, I was just wondering if he is doing the dog a favor in not trying more to redirect/ not respond to the behaviors that will make the dog harder to live with in the long run? : I have been reading a lot about humane, positive reinforcement training, to quickly put in place the good behaviors that bring harmony (chewing on your TOYS, using the YARD, sleeping or at least not making a complete racket all night every night), The books I am reading tell me this can be done fairly quickly in a postive, loving way IF I am consistent with the positive reinforcement (rewarding the desired behavior, providing acceptable outlets for chewing, playing, tugging, ..) and use the negative (no response/ no reward) to let the negatives fizzle out... As with humans, the negative has to include not responding to/ reinforcing the type of demands for attention that totally disrupt everything, and then quickly rewarding the more appropriate demands. What I read is that I should not respond by coming running the minute the puppy whines or barks - but then to respond nicely when the pup gives up on that approach. This will already be hard for me in the middle of the night, when my children will be convinced that the puppy must be suffering horribly if it's yipping... Am I being totally unrealistic and I should expect to be up all night every night? I had the impression from what I read, that if you choose to crate train, the pup can make it through the night, or at least only have one potty break, if you take them directly outside before and after, and immediately reward the sniff..piddle...poop sequence outdoors. Onthe other hand, I want to make the crate a positive thing - putting some treats and toys and food in there and keeping the door open a lot.. I don't want it seen as a punishment or anything. I am willing to readjust my expectations to reality just as I did with my two very different children, but if the puppy CAN adjust in a healthy way that makes life less draining, then I sure want to do everything I can to train in that good behavior ASAP..
Re: ideas about WHY some grow older, and realities of puppies
When we brought home all the puppies we've had, they were a little over 8 weeks and all the boys did just fine all night in the crate. They never had to go out in the middle of the night unless they were sick, and they all slept peacefully in their crates, with nary a yip. Now, we did put the crate in the bedroom with us, and our dogs continue to sleep there now, uncrated. We crated at night until they were about 8 months or so, and they would have continued happily sleeping in them and going in for naps except we took them apart and put them up because we have a very smal house and limited space for crates. In our experience, they get very attached to their crates, because it's their safe place, whether we put toys in with them or not. We were also fortunate in that ours weren't terrible chewers, and redirecting worked just fine, although we're careful not to leave things out when we're gone that might appear interesting to a bored Berner. Andie Reid Wilmington, NC I had the impression from what I read, that if you choose to crate train, the pup can make it through the night, or at least only have one potty break, if you take them directly outside before and after, and immediately reward the sniff..piddle...poop sequence outdoors. Onthe other hand, I want to make the crate a positive thing - putting some treats and toys and food in there and keeping the door open a lot.. I don't want it seen as a punishment or anything. I am willing to readjust my expectations to reality just as I did with my two very different children, but if the puppy CAN adjust in a healthy way that makes life less draining, then I sure want to do everything I can to train in that good behavior ASAP..
