RE: Responsible websites... Also, Elbow Dysplasia

2003-08-20 Thread Rose Tierney
Hi Susan,
I also wonder at the comment "I don't have time to show" or "it's too
political" My thoughts are that when I go to shows its to meet up with
collegues and share information and take a good look at what dogs are out
there, if the ring is political who cares?

Another heads up when cruising websites is those breeders who offer
discounts for unregistered puppies to save the buyer the extra expense.
Here in Canada it only costs the breeder $31 to provide a registration and
to sell unregistered dogs is a whopping big alarm bell that perhaps mom and
dad are not breeding quality and more than likely don't know what an xray
is!

Rose T.



Re: Responsible websites... Also, Elbow Dysplasia

2003-08-18 Thread gwebara
Shar
On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 11:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Sharon Montville
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Just a reminder, especially for people looking on the
> internet to find a puppy...
> 
> Websites of responsible breeders generally include
> registered names, and often the clearances, of their
> dogs.  When the clearances are not included, the
> registered names can be used to check.  These days,
> www.offa.org is the easiest site to check for
> orthopedic clearances (since the GDC data was merged
> with OFA data).  
> 
> Cute photos alone, do not indicate a good breeder. 
> Cute photos are a sales gimmick.  In many cases, cute
> photos sell puppies.  But the careful, informed buyer
> knows to look for a breeder who has in-depth pedigree
> background on the sire and dam of the litter - one who
> can prove much of this screening has been done, via
> formal registries (NOT the vet looked at the x-rays
> and said they were fine).

Sharon
Great info on finding a puppy via the internet. I have found some
generalized rules when looking at websites. Please be aware not all of
these rules apply but overall they are something to consider. Many
serious hobby breeders are very proud of the pedigrees behind the dogs
they've bred and as you stated will give full registered names of their
dogs and many times some pedigree information. 

Commercial and backyard breeders tend to be very paranoid. They think if
they give their names and contact information (other than a hotmail
account) they will be harrassed by animal rights extremists. I have found
that in the many years since I've had a site on the internet regarding my
dogs I have not been harrassed. If someone was trying to determine if I
was a puppy mill or BYB I like to think I passed the test and have never
been bothered again. Questionable breeders will not let you come to their
home to visit. Again they are concerned you are a "spy" for the animal
rights folks. Some websites will be very upfront about their USDA status
and often you will see these folks with multiple breeds. More than a
couple of breeds may raise some questions. 

The commercial website usually gives minimal information, often accepts
credit cards and is willing to ship anywhere. Many times these sites are
cute with lots of pictures of dogs having a good time but you will see a
lack of achievments (no titles in conformation or working activities) or
you will seee that one champion that started their breeding program a
zillion years ago. I've never understood how breeders can bemoan the fact
that they don't have time to show their dogs but they do have time to
breed them. Breeding and raising a litter IMO is no easy job! It takes
8wks! 

I love internet shopping but be careful when using it to  buy a puppy.
Like buying from the newspaper screening breeders is very very important

Susan Ablon
Gweebarra BMD
Balch Springs, Tx
http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara



Responsible websites... Also, Elbow Dysplasia

2003-08-18 Thread Sharon Montville
Just a reminder, especially for people looking on the
internet to find a puppy...

Websites of responsible breeders generally include
registered names, and often the clearances, of their
dogs.  When the clearances are not included, the
registered names can be used to check.  These days,
www.offa.org is the easiest site to check for
orthopedic clearances (since the GDC data was merged
with OFA data).  

Cute photos alone, do not indicate a good breeder. 
Cute photos are a sales gimmick.  In many cases, cute
photos sell puppies.  But the careful, informed buyer
knows to look for a breeder who has in-depth pedigree
background on the sire and dam of the litter - one who
can prove much of this screening has been done, via
formal registries (NOT the vet looked at the x-rays
and said they were fine).

At the prices being charged for puppies, is it not
reasonable to expect a breeder to send hip/elbow
x-rays to OFA (or OVC in Canada) to be officially
evaluated by specialists, for an additional $35 or
so??? 

I recently visited a website (that I found via this
list, somewhat indirectly) and a litter listed had a
sire with only a hip number, and a dam who did not
have a hip number or an elbow number.  Now, maybe her
hips were evaluated by PennHIP but what about her
elbows?  What about her sire's elbows? 

Did you know that a study was done in Rottweilers,
that showed the highest incidence of elbow dysplasia
occurred in litters where neither sire or dam had been
screened?

Did you know that elbow dysplasia is often more
difficult to successfully treat than hip dysplasia,
and it can be quite painful?

Just because a breeder is referenced on this list, or
belongs to a club, or wins in the show ring, does not
necessarily mean this is a responsible breeder.  When
it comes to hip clearances, there are no excuses - the
dog should have an OFA, OVC, or GDC (former orthopedic
registry) evaluation, or PennHIP (no online
verification available however).  For elbows, only the
first 3 apply.  If the dog is an import, there is no
reason it cannot be x-rayed and be evaluated by a
recognized American registry.

Since so many dogs do not pass elbows, sometimes
careful breeders do use a dog with mild elbow
dysplasia for breeding... to a dog with clear elbows
and ideally from a litter of clear-elbowed dogs.  In
this case, it is especially important to see the
evaluation certificate stating the actual diagnosis
and whether one or both elbows are involved.  Grade I
is the mildest.  Beware of the stories "he hurt
himself" - this might be true, but more often than not
is an excuse.  At any rate, any dog that does not pass
elbows, if used for breeding at all, should be bred to
a dog with clear elbows and strong pedigree for
elbows.

Be very careful of new breeders who immediately start
out breeding multiple litters per year.  Breeding 10
litters in the first year, does not make this person
an experienced breeder - it makes them an experienced
whelper.  I would personally be leery of someone new
to the breed, breeding more than one litter their
first year.  I would ask them WHY are they doing
this???  Especially if they are cutting corners on
health clearances.

The sad truth is, there are some people who use the
clubs, and lists such as Berner-l, to gain the trust
of buyers.  Please be careful  Responsible
breeders welcome your questions, even the tough ones. 
So please do not be afraid to ask - if the breeder
gets mad at you for asking, is this someone you want
to be involved with for the life of your dog???

I have held numerous positions of responsibility in
several dog clubs and that is rarely the first thing I
tell people who ask about my dogs...I often do not
even mention that I am a member but I do refer people
to the websites of the BMDCR and BMDCA for the
information available.  You should ask just as many
questions of a BMDCA breeder as you do of a non-member
breeder.

BUYER BEWARE.  This is not just your money at risk, it
is your heart.  Sorry, there have been a few somewhat
"promotional" posts to this list this summer, and I
just wanted to emphasize the importance of researching
before you buy.

Sharon Montville - Firstrax Bernese - Colorado

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