more on bitches
When discussing pregnancies, and reproductive cycles, we need to understand that bitches are not humans in their physiology - with all respect to Vilma and her knowledge of human reproduction (hi there!). And bitches are not little cows, either. So much of the knowledge of animal husbandry we know from animals other than bitches, does not apply to bitches! We do know that the health and nutrition of any animal is important in reproduction. And we need to remember that it's the timing of the breeding, genetics, and the *health of the uterus* that determine litter size. I plead ignorance about human ovulation. But a bitch is the only domestic animal whose ova are ovulated into a progesterone environment, not the estrogen environment of other animals. And a bitch ovulates an immature egg that requires further division before fertilization can occur. A fertilized egg implants in the uterus at Day 17-18. Whether or not a bitch is in fact bred and becomes pregnant, or not, when she goes through her cycle, her uterus acts exactly as if it is pregnant. The hormonal levels that change with a cycle change and apply regardless of whether there are puppies. The progesterone levels affecting the uterus each cycle are at the same level, and last as long in the bitch, whether she is bred or not. So the uterus is not rested or spared or saved by skipping a cycle. The only difference to the uterus is whether there are puppies in it. If we look at this from a non-anthopomorphic viewpoint, it is healthier for the bitch, and healthier for the uterus - if one wishes to have a bitch produce well - to breed her back to back until you no longer wish to have puppies from her. I know this sounds like heresy to some folks, and I am *not* advocating turning every breeding program in to a puppy mill, so let's not carried away here. If you look at the uterus of the bitch 12 weeks after she whelps a litter, it is usually totally healed, and ready to start the process over again. Actually, it usually does start the process all over again. By Day 16-17 of her cycle, if you didn't breed her, the process starts all over again. Bitches never go into menopause. And when 5 of them all living in the same house come in season in the same week - well, they don't call them bitches for nothing. Libby Kesner and the Berner girls of Maine Voorheesville NY USA
Re: more on bitches
That is very good information. What about what it takes from the bitch's body to grow puppies and to nurse them? That is the part that I would think would be hard on a bitch. Mary-Ann Bowman
RE: more on bitches
Libby, Thank you for taking the time to explain the bitch's cycle so well. I started an email and just had to go to other activities (playing with the dogsg). You said it all better than I would have. Female dogs are not women in fur and we should be very careful not to put a human face on their reproductive experiences. Sandie Hawkins Sajan (Berners since 1975)
Re: more on bitches
Mary Ann your question on how many times a bitch is used is an interesting one and some of the answers are also well stated. I suppose my question in regard to all this does no apply to bitches as much as stud dogs however one can consider both questions equally - how many times should a bitch be bred in order to overall improve or help the genepool? or should a bitch that produces well continue to be bred to supply the demand for puppies? You can see how this applies to stud dogs also and for those people who repeat breeding after breeding is there a reason other than to fulfill demand? If there was no demand would these repeated breedings even take place? Just a thought as to why we bother to breed. By doing back to back breedings how can you honestly say that the dogs produced are healthy and sound when the repeat breeding is done while the previous litter is just 6mos old? What type of claims can you honestly make regarding the health of puppies of that age? Just tossing out some other thoughts and questions Susan Ablon Gweebarra BMD Balch Springs, Tx http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara
Re: more on bitches
In a message dated 7/27/2003 4:25:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At what point does the repeated breedings just become about money? And is that bad? Given the ongoing information we get on this list and elsewhere about the puppies that are finding homes by being sold through pet stores or directly from puppy mills, it seems evident that there is a much larger demand than there is a supply. Repeated breedings from respected, knowledgable breeders is, in my mind, preferable for filling this demand than the alternative(given, of course, ongoing attention to the health of the breeding bitch). Breeders often indicate that breedings should only be done to further the breeding program, working to improve one's lines, but speaking strictly as a pet owner, there are a whole bunch of us out here who are looking for lovable, healthy pets. We would not be obtaining these dogs for use as matadors, or whatever the female equivalent is, but rather, would be thrilled to obtain what will become a spayed/neutered, loved companion. Ann Skinner and the beloved Tatters, Kerzon and Carlos the clown
Re: more on bitches
On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:53:19 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Repeated breedings from respected, knowledgable breeders is, in my mind, preferable for filling this demand than the alternative(given, of course, ongoing attention to the health of the breeding bitch). But by doing back to back breedings when puppies are only 6mos old - how does this offer you the information you need to know you are producing healthy puppies? I would also not feel as concerned about this if those doing this type of breeding were indeed knowledgeable however, with the encouragement of reproductive experts to frequently breed a bitch and high demand many novice breeders have taken this course of action. How do can you determine the health of the dogs you are producing when you can have 3 litters on the ground before the first is even 2yrs old? What will this tell you about long term health? While I don't consider myself a novice I am hesitant to jump into overbreeding a bitch or dog due to the potential problems that may come up down the road. Breeding litters is more than just numbers when it comes to guaranteeing health. There are no shortcuts or rushing mother nature. Producing for the sake of producing numbers is exploitation. I'm not sure how else to describe it. The bitch may be kept in a house and on the bed but bred for the monetary gain of the owner. As long this is the primary reason for breeding it is very close to the reason that commercial breeders breed. Differences have primarily to do with contracts, responsibility of the dog long term and health screening, or am I missing something Susan Ablon Gweebarra BMD Balch Springs, Tx http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara
Re: more on bitches
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] So the uterus is not rested or spared or saved by skipping a cycle. The only difference to the uterus is whether there are puppies in it. If we look at this from a non-anthopomorphic viewpoint, it is healthier for the bitch, and healthier for the uterus - if one wishes to have a bitch produce well - to breed her back to back until you no longer wish to have puppies from her. I know this sounds like heresy to some folks, and I am *not* advocating turning every breeding program in to a puppy mill, so let's not carried away here. That's really interesting information! I know a lot more about horse breeding than any other kind. :-) In horses, it is most common to breed a mare on either her foal heat (7-10 days after foaling) or the one following, which is about one month post foaling. The gestation is 11 months, so you have one a year. I know most professional broodmares are basically bred each year--some carry on with being a broodmare well into their 20s. They do not have a shorter average lifespan than working horses and pasture potatoes. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 6/5/2003
