date:20200302

[bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-evpn-virtual-eth-segment-05.txt

2020-03-02 Thread internet-drafts



A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF.

Title   : EVPN Virtual Ethernet Segment
Authors : Ali Sajassi
  Patrice Brissette
  Rick Schell
  John E Drake
  Jorge Rabadan
Filename: draft-ietf-bess-evpn-virtual-eth-segment-05.txt
Pages   : 23
Date: 2020-03-02

Abstract:
   EVPN and PBB-EVPN introduce a family of solutions for multipoint
   Ethernet services over MPLS/IP network with many advanced features
   among which their multi-homing capabilities.  These solutions
   introduce Single-Active and All-Active for an Ethernet Segment (ES),
   itself defined as a set of physical links between the multi-homed
   device/network and a set of PE devices that they are connected to.
   This document extends the Ethernet Segment concept so that an ES can
   be associated to a set of EVCs (e.g., VLANs) or other objects such as
   MPLS Label Switch Paths (LSPs) or Pseudowires (PWs), referred to as
   Virtual Ethernet Segments (vES).  This draft describes the
   requirements and the extensions needed to support vES in EVPN and
   PBB-EVPN.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-virtual-eth-segment/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-virtual-eth-segment-05
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-virtual-eth-segment-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-evpn-virtual-eth-segment-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Re: [bess] VXLAN EVPN fabric extension to Hypervisor VM

2020-03-02 Thread Gyan Mishra

Appreciate you sharing thoughts.

On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 7:08 PM Robert Raszuk  wrote:

> Hi Gyan,
>
> You are touching subject close to me so let me share my perspective on
> your doubts below ;)
>
> >  maybe some advantages of elimination of L2 to the host
>
> Not some but huge !
>

  Please name a few benefits of L3 comparing to L2 MLAG & no STP.  One
issue is host lacp misconfiguration which as a standard we suspend
individual links  to force server folks to fix lacp

>
> >  BGP multipath provides flow based uneven load balancing
>
> First Contrail/Tungsten does not use BGP to the hypervisor but XMPP. But
> this is opaque to your concern.
>

   Do you know of any vendor or project with a BGP based L3 to host
solution w/ or w/o extending vxlan fabric?

>
> Load balancing and hashing construction is your choice, BGP or XMPP only
> deliver you next hops .. how you spread traffic to them is 100% up to your
> choice. That is the same on hypervisor or on any decent router. LAGs also
> build hash in the way you configure them to do so.
>

Understood.  ECMP L3 flow based load balancing has inherently always
had that downside with load balancing compare to per packet Ether bundling
hash are any layer of the network DC, Access, Core etc.

>
> >  hypervisor managed by server admins
>
> In any decent network or for that matter even in my lab this is all 100%
> automated. You run one template and execute it. Ansible works pretty well,
> but there are other choices too.
>
> Many thx,
> R.
>
>
   Good point as most networks these days have orchestration built into the
solution.   Agreed.

>
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 1:00 AM Gyan Mishra  wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks Robert for the quick response
>>
>> Just thinking out loud -  I can see there maybe some advantages of
>> elimination of L2 to the host but the one major disadvantage is that BGP
>> multipath provides flow based uneven load balancing so not as desirable
>> from that standpoint compare to L3 MLAG bundle XOR Src/Dest/Port hash.
>>
>> Other big down side is most enterprises have the hypervisor managed by
>> server admins but if you run BGP now that ends up shifting to network.
>> More complicated.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 6:39 PM Robert Raszuk  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Gyan,
>>>
>>> Similar architecture has been invented and shipped by Contrail team. Now
>>> that project after they got acquired by Juniper has been renamed to
>>> Tungsten Fabric https://tungsten.io/ while Juniper continued to keep
>>> the original project's name and commercial flavor of it. No guarantees of
>>> any product quality at this point.
>>>
>>> Btw ,,, no need for VXLAN nor BGP to the host. The proposed above
>>> alternative were well thought out and turned to work ways far more
>>> efficient and practical if you zoom into details.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Robert.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 12:26 AM Gyan Mishra 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 Dear BESS WG

 Is anyone aware of any IETF BGP development in the Data Center arena to
 extend BGP VXLAN EVPN to a blade server Hypervisor making the Hypervisor
 part of the  vxlan fabric.  This could eliminate use of MLAG on the leaf
 switches and eliminate L2 completely from the vxlan fabric thereby
 maximizing  stability.

 Kind regards,

 Gyan
 --

 Gyan  Mishra

 Network Engineering & Technology

 Verizon

 Silver Spring, MD 20904

 Phone: 301 502-1347

 Email: gyan.s.mis...@verizon.com



 ___
 BESS mailing list
 BESS@ietf.org
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>>> --
>>
>> Gyan  Mishra
>>
>> Network Engineering & Technology
>>
>> Verizon
>>
>> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>>
>> Phone: 301 502-1347
>>
>> Email: gyan.s.mis...@verizon.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --

Gyan  Mishra

Network Engineering & Technology

Verizon

Silver Spring, MD 20904

Phone: 301 502-1347

Email: gyan.s.mis...@verizon.com
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Re: [bess] VXLAN EVPN fabric extension to Hypervisor VM

2020-03-02 Thread Jeff Tantsura

Gyan,

On open source side of things - FRR supports EVPN on the host.
Any vendor virtualized NOS would provide you the same (at least Junos/cRPD or  
XRv).
EVPN ESI load-sharing eliminates need for MLAG (basic thought, the devil is in 
the details :))
ECMP vs LAG load-balancing - the algorithms supported are quite similar, in 
some code bases actually the same, so this statement is not really correct.

Would be glad to better understand your requirements and help you!

Regards,
Jeff

> On Mar 2, 2020, at 16:00, Gyan Mishra  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Robert for the quick response
> 
> Just thinking out loud -  I can see there maybe some advantages of 
> elimination of L2 to the host but the one major disadvantage is that BGP 
> multipath provides flow based uneven load balancing so not as desirable from 
> that standpoint compare to L3 MLAG bundle XOR Src/Dest/Port hash.
> 
> Other big down side is most enterprises have the hypervisor managed by server 
> admins but if you run BGP now that ends up shifting to network.  More 
> complicated.  
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Gyan
> 
>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 6:39 PM Robert Raszuk  wrote:
>> Hi Gyan,
>> 
>> Similar architecture has been invented and shipped by Contrail team. Now 
>> that project after they got acquired by Juniper has been renamed to Tungsten 
>> Fabric https://tungsten.io/ while Juniper continued to keep the original 
>> project's name and commercial flavor of it. No guarantees of any product 
>> quality at this point. 
>> 
>> Btw ,,, no need for VXLAN nor BGP to the host. The proposed above 
>> alternative were well thought out and turned to work ways far more efficient 
>> and practical if you zoom into details. 
>> 
>> Best,
>> Robert.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 12:26 AM Gyan Mishra  wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Dear BESS WG
>>> 
>>> Is anyone aware of any IETF BGP development in the Data Center arena to 
>>> extend BGP VXLAN EVPN to a blade server Hypervisor making the Hypervisor 
>>> part of the  vxlan fabric.  This could eliminate use of MLAG on the leaf 
>>> switches and eliminate L2 completely from the vxlan fabric thereby 
>>> maximizing  stability.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> Gyan
>>> -- 
>>> Gyan  Mishra
>>> 
>>> Network Engineering & Technology 
>>> 
>>> Verizon 
>>> 
>>> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>>> 
>>> Phone: 301 502-1347
>>> 
>>> Email: gyan.s..mis...@verizon.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> ___
>>> BESS mailing list
>>> BESS@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
> -- 
> Gyan  Mishra
> 
> Network Engineering & Technology 
> 
> Verizon 
> 
> Silver Spring, MD 20904
> 
> Phone: 301 502-1347
> 
> Email: gyan.s.mis...@verizon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
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Re: [bess] VXLAN EVPN fabric extension to Hypervisor VM

2020-03-02 Thread Robert Raszuk

Hi Gyan,

You are touching subject close to me so let me share my perspective on your
doubts below ;)

>  maybe some advantages of elimination of L2 to the host

Not some but huge !

>  BGP multipath provides flow based uneven load balancing

First Contrail/Tungsten does not use BGP to the hypervisor but XMPP. But
this is opaque to your concern.

Load balancing and hashing construction is your choice, BGP or XMPP only
deliver you next hops .. how you spread traffic to them is 100% up to your
choice. That is the same on hypervisor or on any decent router. LAGs also
build hash in the way you configure them to do so.

>  hypervisor managed by server admins

In any decent network or for that matter even in my lab this is all 100%
automated. You run one template and execute it. Ansible works pretty well,
but there are other choices too.

Many thx,
R.


On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 1:00 AM Gyan Mishra  wrote:

>
> Thanks Robert for the quick response
>
> Just thinking out loud -  I can see there maybe some advantages of
> elimination of L2 to the host but the one major disadvantage is that BGP
> multipath provides flow based uneven load balancing so not as desirable
> from that standpoint compare to L3 MLAG bundle XOR Src/Dest/Port hash.
>
> Other big down side is most enterprises have the hypervisor managed by
> server admins but if you run BGP now that ends up shifting to network.
> More complicated.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Gyan
>
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 6:39 PM Robert Raszuk  wrote:
>
>> Hi Gyan,
>>
>> Similar architecture has been invented and shipped by Contrail team. Now
>> that project after they got acquired by Juniper has been renamed to
>> Tungsten Fabric https://tungsten.io/ while Juniper continued to keep the
>> original project's name and commercial flavor of it. No guarantees of any
>> product quality at this point.
>>
>> Btw ,,, no need for VXLAN nor BGP to the host. The proposed above
>> alternative were well thought out and turned to work ways far more
>> efficient and practical if you zoom into details.
>>
>> Best,
>> Robert.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 12:26 AM Gyan Mishra 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Dear BESS WG
>>>
>>> Is anyone aware of any IETF BGP development in the Data Center arena to
>>> extend BGP VXLAN EVPN to a blade server Hypervisor making the Hypervisor
>>> part of the  vxlan fabric.  This could eliminate use of MLAG on the leaf
>>> switches and eliminate L2 completely from the vxlan fabric thereby
>>> maximizing  stability.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Gyan
>>> --
>>>
>>> Gyan  Mishra
>>>
>>> Network Engineering & Technology
>>>
>>> Verizon
>>>
>>> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>>>
>>> Phone: 301 502-1347
>>>
>>> Email: gyan.s.mis...@verizon.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> BESS mailing list
>>> BESS@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>>>
>> --
>
> Gyan  Mishra
>
> Network Engineering & Technology
>
> Verizon
>
> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>
> Phone: 301 502-1347
>
> Email: gyan.s.mis...@verizon.com
>
>
>
>
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Re: [bess] VXLAN EVPN fabric extension to Hypervisor VM

2020-03-02 Thread Gyan Mishra

Thanks Robert for the quick response

Just thinking out loud -  I can see there maybe some advantages of
elimination of L2 to the host but the one major disadvantage is that BGP
multipath provides flow based uneven load balancing so not as desirable
from that standpoint compare to L3 MLAG bundle XOR Src/Dest/Port hash.

Other big down side is most enterprises have the hypervisor managed by
server admins but if you run BGP now that ends up shifting to network.
More complicated.

Kind regards

Gyan

On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 6:39 PM Robert Raszuk  wrote:

> Hi Gyan,
>
> Similar architecture has been invented and shipped by Contrail team. Now
> that project after they got acquired by Juniper has been renamed to
> Tungsten Fabric https://tungsten.io/ while Juniper continued to keep the
> original project's name and commercial flavor of it. No guarantees of any
> product quality at this point.
>
> Btw ,,, no need for VXLAN nor BGP to the host. The proposed above
> alternative were well thought out and turned to work ways far more
> efficient and practical if you zoom into details.
>
> Best,
> Robert.
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 12:26 AM Gyan Mishra  wrote:
>
>>
>> Dear BESS WG
>>
>> Is anyone aware of any IETF BGP development in the Data Center arena to
>> extend BGP VXLAN EVPN to a blade server Hypervisor making the Hypervisor
>> part of the  vxlan fabric.  This could eliminate use of MLAG on the leaf
>> switches and eliminate L2 completely from the vxlan fabric thereby
>> maximizing  stability.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Gyan
>> --
>>
>> Gyan  Mishra
>>
>> Network Engineering & Technology
>>
>> Verizon
>>
>> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>>
>> Phone: 301 502-1347
>>
>> Email: gyan.s.mis...@verizon.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> BESS mailing list
>> BESS@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>>
> --

Gyan  Mishra

Network Engineering & Technology

Verizon

Silver Spring, MD 20904

Phone: 301 502-1347

Email: gyan.s.mis...@verizon.com
___
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BESS@ietf.org
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Re: [bess] VXLAN EVPN fabric extension to Hypervisor VM

2020-03-02 Thread Robert Raszuk

Hi Gyan,

Similar architecture has been invented and shipped by Contrail team. Now
that project after they got acquired by Juniper has been renamed to
Tungsten Fabric https://tungsten.io/ while Juniper continued to keep the
original project's name and commercial flavor of it. No guarantees of any
product quality at this point.

Btw ,,, no need for VXLAN nor BGP to the host. The proposed above
alternative were well thought out and turned to work ways far more
efficient and practical if you zoom into details.

Best,
Robert.

On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 12:26 AM Gyan Mishra  wrote:

>
> Dear BESS WG
>
> Is anyone aware of any IETF BGP development in the Data Center arena to
> extend BGP VXLAN EVPN to a blade server Hypervisor making the Hypervisor
> part of the  vxlan fabric.  This could eliminate use of MLAG on the leaf
> switches and eliminate L2 completely from the vxlan fabric thereby
> maximizing  stability.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Gyan
> --
>
> Gyan  Mishra
>
> Network Engineering & Technology
>
> Verizon
>
> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>
> Phone: 301 502-1347
>
> Email: gyan.s.mis...@verizon.com
>
>
>
> ___
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>
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[bess] VXLAN EVPN fabric extension to Hypervisor VM

2020-03-02 Thread Gyan Mishra

Dear BESS WG

Is anyone aware of any IETF BGP development in the Data Center arena to
extend BGP VXLAN EVPN to a blade server Hypervisor making the Hypervisor
part of the  vxlan fabric.  This could eliminate use of MLAG on the leaf
switches and eliminate L2 completely from the vxlan fabric thereby
maximizing  stability.

Kind regards,

Gyan
-- 

Gyan  Mishra

Network Engineering & Technology

Verizon

Silver Spring, MD 20904

Phone: 301 502-1347

Email: gyan.s.mis...@verizon.com
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Re: [bess] IETF 107 presentation - please send request

2020-03-02 Thread Linda Dunbar

Mankamana, BESS Chairs,

Can we have 10 minutes slot to present the updates to the following draft based 
on comments/suggestions we got from IETF106?
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-bess-bgp-sdwan-usage/

Thank you.

Linda Dunbar

From: BESS  On Behalf Of Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 5:11 PM
To: bess@ietf.org
Cc: bess-cha...@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] IETF 107 presentation - please send request

Final agenda

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/107/agenda.html


Bess session time had been modified from initial agenda.

Mankamana

From: "Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)" 
mailto:manka...@cisco.com>>
Date: Monday, February 24, 2020 at 1:42 PM
To: "bess@ietf.org" mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
Cc: "bess-cha...@ietf.org" 
mailto:bess-cha...@ietf.org>>
Subject: IETF 107 presentation - please send request
Resent-From: mailto:alias-boun...@ietf.org>>
Resent-To: mailto:slitkows.i...@gmail.com>>, 
mailto:manka...@cisco.com>>, 
mailto:matthew.bo...@nokia.com>>
Resent-Date: Monday, February 24, 2020 at 1:42 PM

All,
Preliminary agenda for IETF 107 is out. Please send me request to schedule 
presentation for IETF107.  Please provide name of speaker , time & draft.

Mankamana

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[bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-evpn-virtual-eth-segment-05.txt

Re: [bess] VXLAN EVPN fabric extension to Hypervisor VM

Re: [bess] VXLAN EVPN fabric extension to Hypervisor VM

Re: [bess] VXLAN EVPN fabric extension to Hypervisor VM

Re: [bess] VXLAN EVPN fabric extension to Hypervisor VM

Re: [bess] VXLAN EVPN fabric extension to Hypervisor VM

[bess] VXLAN EVPN fabric extension to Hypervisor VM

Re: [bess] IETF 107 presentation - please send request

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