Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] Sending OP_RETURN via Bitcoin Lightning
As far as I understand it, RGB doesn't scale NFTs as each transaction to transfer ownership of an NFT would require an onchain transaction On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 3:44 PM Martin Habovštiak via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > I recommend you researching RGB: https://rgb-org.github.io/ > > On Mon, Dec 6, 2021, 11:21 Karl wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I'm not a bitcoin developer. >> >> On Mon, Dec 6, 2021, 5:05 AM Héctor José Cárdenas Pacheco via bitcoin-dev >> wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I’ve been thinking about how OP_RETURN is being used to create and trade >>> NFTs on Bitcoin (think RarePepes, SoG and other new ones) and was wondering >>> if it’s possible to >>> >> >> Do you have a link to any of these protocols? >> >> make transactions with this opcode via Lightning. >>> >>> More specific questions could be: >>> >>>1. Can opcodes like OP_RETURN be inside a channel’s opening or >>>closing transaction? >>>2. If so, could that OP_RETURN change hands within that channel or >>>network of channels? >>> >>> OP_RETURNs do not have ownership according to the bitcoin network. It >> is not hard to define a protocol that associates an OP_RETURN with >> ownership, and ownership could then be transferred via lightning by sending >> associated currency via lightning. Robustness improvements seem possible. >> >> >>>1. If possible, could the OP_RETURN be divisible? Could one person >>>send a piece of a OP_RETURN just like one can do right now on the primary >>>ledger or would it need to maintain the OP_RETURN code intact? >>> >>> OP_RETURNs themselves do not have ownership, but you can define a >> protocol that gives them divisible ownership, including via lightning. >> >> I’m assuming that, if possible, this would need a protocol layer parallel >>> to Bitcoin/Lightning that stores and reads all Bitcoin transactions and the >>> ones which involve the node's channels as well as the ones with the >>> OP_RETURN, just like CounterParty does right now with the primary ledger. >>> >>> Thank in advance. >>> —— >>> >>> *Héctor Cárdenas*@hcarpach >>> >>> ___ >>> bitcoin-dev mailing list >>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >>> >> ___ >> Lightning-dev mailing list >> lightning-...@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev >> > ___ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > ___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
Re: [bitcoin-dev] Sending OP_RETURN via Bitcoin Lightning
Hi, it is not really possible in the way you think, mainly because lightning relies on liquidity to work, i.,e. lots of bitcoin locked up in channels to allow liquidity, NFTs are not liquid, so if you have 1 NFT then it would be impossible to send on the network I think the best off chain solution to NFTs on bitcoin is using Ruben Somsens state chain protocol, which allows you to swap utxos off chain, and those off chain utxos could harbour an op return/nft On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 10:36 AM Karl via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm not a bitcoin developer. > > On Mon, Dec 6, 2021, 5:05 AM Héctor José Cárdenas Pacheco via bitcoin-dev < > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I’ve been thinking about how OP_RETURN is being used to create and trade >> NFTs on Bitcoin (think RarePepes, SoG and other new ones) and was wondering >> if it’s possible to >> > > Do you have a link to any of these protocols? > > make transactions with this opcode via Lightning. >> >> More specific questions could be: >> >>1. Can opcodes like OP_RETURN be inside a channel’s opening or >>closing transaction? >>2. If so, could that OP_RETURN change hands within that channel or >>network of channels? >> >> OP_RETURNs do not have ownership according to the bitcoin network. It is > not hard to define a protocol that associates an OP_RETURN with ownership, > and ownership could then be transferred via lightning by sending associated > currency via lightning. Robustness improvements seem possible. > > >>1. If possible, could the OP_RETURN be divisible? Could one person >>send a piece of a OP_RETURN just like one can do right now on the primary >>ledger or would it need to maintain the OP_RETURN code intact? >> >> OP_RETURNs themselves do not have ownership, but you can define a > protocol that gives them divisible ownership, including via lightning. > > I’m assuming that, if possible, this would need a protocol layer parallel >> to Bitcoin/Lightning that stores and reads all Bitcoin transactions and the >> ones which involve the node's channels as well as the ones with the >> OP_RETURN, just like CounterParty does right now with the primary ledger. >> >> Thank in advance. >> —— >> >> *Héctor Cárdenas*@hcarpach >> >> ___ >> bitcoin-dev mailing list >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >> > ___ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > ___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] Sending OP_RETURN via Bitcoin Lightning
I recommend you researching RGB: https://rgb-org.github.io/ On Mon, Dec 6, 2021, 11:21 Karl wrote: > Hi, > > I'm not a bitcoin developer. > > On Mon, Dec 6, 2021, 5:05 AM Héctor José Cárdenas Pacheco via bitcoin-dev < > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I’ve been thinking about how OP_RETURN is being used to create and trade >> NFTs on Bitcoin (think RarePepes, SoG and other new ones) and was wondering >> if it’s possible to >> > > Do you have a link to any of these protocols? > > make transactions with this opcode via Lightning. >> >> More specific questions could be: >> >>1. Can opcodes like OP_RETURN be inside a channel’s opening or >>closing transaction? >>2. If so, could that OP_RETURN change hands within that channel or >>network of channels? >> >> OP_RETURNs do not have ownership according to the bitcoin network. It is > not hard to define a protocol that associates an OP_RETURN with ownership, > and ownership could then be transferred via lightning by sending associated > currency via lightning. Robustness improvements seem possible. > > >>1. If possible, could the OP_RETURN be divisible? Could one person >>send a piece of a OP_RETURN just like one can do right now on the primary >>ledger or would it need to maintain the OP_RETURN code intact? >> >> OP_RETURNs themselves do not have ownership, but you can define a > protocol that gives them divisible ownership, including via lightning. > > I’m assuming that, if possible, this would need a protocol layer parallel >> to Bitcoin/Lightning that stores and reads all Bitcoin transactions and the >> ones which involve the node's channels as well as the ones with the >> OP_RETURN, just like CounterParty does right now with the primary ledger. >> >> Thank in advance. >> —— >> >> *Héctor Cárdenas*@hcarpach >> >> ___ >> bitcoin-dev mailing list >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >> > ___ > Lightning-dev mailing list > lightning-...@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev > ___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
Re: [bitcoin-dev] Sending OP_RETURN via Bitcoin Lightning
Hi, I'm not a bitcoin developer. On Mon, Dec 6, 2021, 5:05 AM Héctor José Cárdenas Pacheco via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Hello all, > > I’ve been thinking about how OP_RETURN is being used to create and trade > NFTs on Bitcoin (think RarePepes, SoG and other new ones) and was wondering > if it’s possible to > Do you have a link to any of these protocols? make transactions with this opcode via Lightning. > > More specific questions could be: > >1. Can opcodes like OP_RETURN be inside a channel’s opening or closing >transaction? >2. If so, could that OP_RETURN change hands within that channel or >network of channels? > > OP_RETURNs do not have ownership according to the bitcoin network. It is not hard to define a protocol that associates an OP_RETURN with ownership, and ownership could then be transferred via lightning by sending associated currency via lightning. Robustness improvements seem possible. >1. If possible, could the OP_RETURN be divisible? Could one person >send a piece of a OP_RETURN just like one can do right now on the primary >ledger or would it need to maintain the OP_RETURN code intact? > > OP_RETURNs themselves do not have ownership, but you can define a protocol that gives them divisible ownership, including via lightning. I’m assuming that, if possible, this would need a protocol layer parallel > to Bitcoin/Lightning that stores and reads all Bitcoin transactions and the > ones which involve the node's channels as well as the ones with the > OP_RETURN, just like CounterParty does right now with the primary ledger. > > Thank in advance. > —— > > *Héctor Cárdenas*@hcarpach > > ___ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > ___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
[bitcoin-dev] Sending OP_RETURN via Bitcoin Lightning
Hello all, I’ve been thinking about how OP_RETURN is being used to create and trade NFTs on Bitcoin (think RarePepes, SoG and other new ones) and was wondering if it’s possible to make transactions with this opcode via Lightning. More specific questions could be: Can opcodes like OP_RETURN be inside a channel’s opening or closing transaction? If so, could that OP_RETURN change hands within that channel or network of channels? If possible, could the OP_RETURN be divisible? Could one person send a piece of a OP_RETURN just like one can do right now on the primary ledger or would it need to maintain the OP_RETURN code intact? I’m assuming that, if possible, this would need a protocol layer parallel to Bitcoin/Lightning that stores and reads all Bitcoin transactions and the ones which involve the node's channels as well as the ones with the OP_RETURN, just like CounterParty does right now with the primary ledger. Thank in advance. —— Héctor Cárdenas @hcarpach ___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
