Re: [bitcoin-dev] Debate: 64 bytes in OP_RETURN VS taproot OP_FALSE OP_IF OP_PUSH
On Sat., Feb. 4, 2023, 21:01 Peter Todd, wrote: > > > On February 5, 2023 1:11:35 AM GMT+01:00, Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev > wrote: > >Since bytes in the witness are cheaper than bytes in the script pubkey, > >there is a crossover point in data size where it will simply be cheaper to > >use witness data. Where that crossover point is depends on the finer > >details of the overhead of the two methods, but you could make some > >reasonable assumptions. Such a calculation could form the basis of a > >reasonable OP_RETURN proposal. I don't know if it would be persuasive, > but > >it would at least be coherent. > > I don't think it's worth the technical complexity trying to carefully > argue a specific limit. Let users decide for themselves how they want to > use OpReturn. > Even better. > ___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
Re: [bitcoin-dev] Debate: 64 bytes in OP_RETURN VS taproot OP_FALSE OP_IF OP_PUSH
On Sat, Feb 04, 2023 at 07:11:35PM -0500, Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Since bytes in the witness are cheaper than bytes in the script pubkey, > there is a crossover point in data size where it will simply be cheaper to > use witness data. Where that crossover point is depends on the finer > details of the overhead of the two methods, but you could make some > reasonable assumptions. Such a calculation could form the basis of a > reasonable OP_RETURN proposal. I don't know if it would be persuasive, but > it would at least be coherent. > I agree with Peter that, given that users have found ways to store arbitrary amounts of data on-chain if they really want, we might as well just make OP_RETURN a free-for-all. -- Andrew Poelstra Director of Research, Blockstream Email: apoelstra at wpsoftware.net Web: https://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew The sun is always shining in space -Justin Lewis-Webster signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
Re: [bitcoin-dev] Debate: 64 bytes in OP_RETURN VS taproot OP_FALSE OP_IF OP_PUSH
Yes I agree, let people decide and since taproot has no limits then it sould be the same for OP_RETURN I posted https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27043 Le 05/02/2023 à 13:06, Peter Todd a écrit : > > On February 5, 2023 12:40:38 PM GMT+01:00, Aymeric Vitte > wrote: >> I think logically: >> >> - if you want to store something big and can afford several txs in your >> design, then you use something like witness >> >> - if you want to store small things like signatures, addresses hashes >> and some metadata and your design does not make several txs easy, then >> you use OP_RETURN >> >> Then how can we move forward with several OP_RETURN and no size limit? > Because what matters is the impact on other users. OpReturn isn't in UTXO > space and doesn't even take advantage of the witness discount, so it clearly > has minimal impact. > > Since it has minimal impact, there's no reason to micromanage exactly how > people use it. Let them decide for themselves with the fee market. This is > exactly the same as how we didn't put artificial limits on Taproot. -- Sophia-Antipolis, France CV: https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf LinkedIn: https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26 GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7 A bitcoin NFT system: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7 Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.peersm.com Peersm : http://www.peersm.com ___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
Re: [bitcoin-dev] Debate: 64 bytes in OP_RETURN VS taproot OP_FALSE OP_IF OP_PUSH
I think logically: - if you want to store something big and can afford several txs in your design, then you use something like witness - if you want to store small things like signatures, addresses hashes and some metadata and your design does not make several txs easy, then you use OP_RETURN Then how can we move forward with several OP_RETURN and no size limit? I can start posting a bug/enhancement proposal in bitcoin repo but can't write the PR Le 05/02/2023 à 01:04, Peter Todd a écrit : > > On February 5, 2023 12:09:02 AM GMT+01:00, Aymeric Vitte via bitcoin-dev > wrote: >> I don't know, what number would you advise? When I made the >> bitcoin-transactions nodejs module some years ago the limit (from the >> specs) was 512B > 1) Allowing only one OpReturn output causes problems trying to compose > different uses of OpReturn. We should allow any number of OpReturn outputs. > > 2) There's no reason to put a size limit given all the other ways people can > publish data, including with a 75% discount. Let the fee market deal with it. -- Sophia-Antipolis, France CV: https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf LinkedIn: https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26 GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7 A bitcoin NFT system: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7 Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.peersm.com Peersm : http://www.peersm.com ___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
Re: [bitcoin-dev] Debate: 64 bytes in OP_RETURN VS taproot OP_FALSE OP_IF OP_PUSH
On February 5, 2023 12:40:38 PM GMT+01:00, Aymeric Vitte wrote: >I think logically: > >- if you want to store something big and can afford several txs in your >design, then you use something like witness > >- if you want to store small things like signatures, addresses hashes >and some metadata and your design does not make several txs easy, then >you use OP_RETURN > >Then how can we move forward with several OP_RETURN and no size limit? Because what matters is the impact on other users. OpReturn isn't in UTXO space and doesn't even take advantage of the witness discount, so it clearly has minimal impact. Since it has minimal impact, there's no reason to micromanage exactly how people use it. Let them decide for themselves with the fee market. This is exactly the same as how we didn't put artificial limits on Taproot. ___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
