Re: [Blackbelly] KIDNEY FAILURE - IVY
Oh, just an after thought, when I was working with humans with kidney failure, their diets were restricted of K(potassium) the kidneys are unable to clear the excess potassium from their bodies, which would result in hyperkalemia =elevated potassium, too much potassium can cause cardiac arrest. So watch the potassium in the electrolytes. Liz Radi idar alpacas and nubians 100% ARI and homegrown Nunn Colorado 970-897-2580 http://idaralpaca.blogspot.com - Original Message - > ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] KIDNEY FAILURE - IVY
Lin You can order sheep Nutri drench on www.jefferslivestock.com, they have both sheep and goat. Also, injectable B vitamins(has thiamine) will stimulate appetite, also will help in the prevention of PEM, polioencephalomalacia. A high grain diet or going off feed will cause this. It is a lack of thiamine. The symptoms are neurological in nature. Blindness, circling to mention a few. To get the rumen going, when one of your other goats,err sheep that is, is bringing up cud, scoop it out of her mouth and give it immediately to your Ivy. I would try to push the alfalfa cubes or grass, and not push the grain. But then again, I have never owned sheep, I am speaking from a goats perspective. Liz Radi idar alpacas and nubians 100% ARI and homegrown Nunn Colorado 970-897-2580 http://idaralpaca.blogspot.com ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] KIDNEY FAILURE - IVY
I looked for Nutra Drench solution but wasn't able to get that brand. I will keep looking for it but for now I got one packet of (Manna Pro) "Bounce Back" (a multi-species electrolyte supplement). Tonight, I mixed one cup of this solution along with two cups plain water with her grain and force fed her. I also bought a baby bottle and gave her another cup of this solution. I was quite surprised (and pleased) how she managed with the bottle. I also picked fresh grass and put a large bowl in the girls' stall tonight. I saw Ivy eat a little. She also ate a little sweet feed/pelleted grain/pretzel mix and I saw her licking the saltlick 3X today. I do think she's really trying. When I did the (last) barn check tonight, most of the fresh grass was gone...hard telling which of the sheep ate it. Put another big bowl of fresh grass in for overnight. Does anybody know how much pelleted grain per day Ivy should be eating? Today, she got 2/3 C. 2X. I try to get another 1/2 C. in her around mid day if I can. Too much? I also thought I would use the electrolyte solution to mix with her grain. I will try the Apple Cider Vinegar by putting out a pail of it so they can try it. Also, I will look in Ivy's mouth tomorrow to see if there is a problem. I think the pro-biotic powder might be a good idea as well. The Vet did say that once a sheep stops eating, it is a challenge to get the rumen going again. I will check into sugar beet pellets and see if there might be some hay cubes other than alfalfa that I could soak for her. Ivy will also get some oatmeal cookies tomorrow. Thank you for all these suggestions. I appreciate all this information and will let you know how Ivy is doing Lin Madison, WI ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] KIDNEY FAILURE - IVY
Lin, So sorry to hear about your sheep. I have never owned sheep, but am hoping to soon, but here is my experience with goats. Try getting Timothy pellets, and soaking them and making a slurry, maybe that would help. You should probably check the protein content first as the timothy may be higher and overtax the kidneys. They might even have Bermuda pellets, come to think of it. We tried rabbit pellets on our goat, but they are mostly alfalfa, wonder if they come in grass? I had a goat that was metabolically challenged for about 6 weeks, following a C-section. My vet said that once a ruminant has metabolic problems, from not eating and drinking, it is hard to bring them around. We ended up having to put her down as she could no longer get up. Both my husband and I bawled, she was our first goat ever, and was much loved. If you are in Wisconsin, try giving her dogwood branches with leaves on them. Our goats used to love them when we lived up in MN. Don't know if sheep would also. Liz Radi idar alpacas and nubians 100% ARI and homegrown Nunn Colorado 970-897-2580 http://idaralpaca.blogspot.com - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 11:23 AM Subject: [Blackbelly] KIDNEY FAILURE - IVY Thank you all for your responses. I didn't know how to do plain text, but do know now. We have three (pet) sheep. Ivy is our sick one. When Ivy was feeling good, she and the other two ate pelleted grain at night and free-feed grass/alfalfa mix hay along with fresh grass, etc. outside. They also get pretzels at night and sometimes corn or peanuts but not often on the last two. Ivy and her twin are seven years old; Mom, Tawny, is eight. They have eaten this same diet for years. They roam free during the day; however, this summer have chosen to stay in (a well-ventilated) barn because the mosquitos are so bad. They are stalled at night. Ivy has been sick now for about six weeks...just stayed by herself and seemed somewhat lethargic. The Vet put her in the hospital on Tues. 8/10 to Mon. 8/16. They flushed her kidneys daily. She had a slight kidney infection so was put on antibiotics. The Vet said it now is up to her. When I brought her home, she looked better...held her ears higher, seemed to be more alert and had more energy. The Vet wanted me to isolate her so that I could monitor her intake and output. We set up a dog kennel so she could see the other two sheep but I didn't feel she was doing well that way so she has been with the other two ever since. Before going into the hospital, she stayed by herself in the barn but now seems to stay with the other two most of the time. I know she is drinking but I don't see her eating. I think she started out around 200+lbs. and the Vet now thinks she is about 150. She looks exactly like her sister now. The Vet told me that if Ivy didn't start eating or drinking, we would have to make a decision. I decided to try holistic medicine. Since last Thurs. 8/19, I have been force feeding her. I soak 1/2 to 2/3 Cup of grain in 3 C. water 3X/day. Not sure how much grain she should get on a daily basis. The Vet said she should be drinking 1 1/2 to 2 gal. water/day. Since I couldn't find a syringe with a large hole, I use a baster. It works! She also gets 2 tbs. liquid mineral supplement (Super Coat 40), essential oils every other day and a high frequency light on her 2X/day. She looks better but I still don't see her eating much on her own. She licked a salt block for a long time this morning. I also got some show feed (sweet feed) for her as well as dried distillery grain. I put it down and I see her nibble at the sweet feed. Thank you for the suggestion of Nutra Drench solution. I will get some today. I need to get some roughage into her but not sure how to do that. I can give her fresh grass or grass hay (no alfalfa). Any suggestions how to force feed hay? It's really hard to tell if Ivy is holding her own but I still think she looks fairly good. I'm just really concerned that I don't see her eating on her own. I'm open to any suggestions. Thank you for all your help. Lin - Madison, WI ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] good movie about sheep
Glad you liked the movie, Michael. You'll be glad to listen to the commentary; it helped a lot. That cussing scene was followed by that whining A'hole phoning his MOTHER, not his friend! And at the end he said "I really like to torment her like that." I really hated that jerk. My favorite scene was in the beginning where we see just a few sheep lolling around the paddock. Then the REST of the flock comes in, all 3000 of them. And I particularly liked the magesty of spending months herding those sheep through the mountains. You probably didn't realize that they weren't shooting to kill those grizzly bears (which would be a federal offense) but were shooting near them to scare them off. To answer your other questions: 1. I thought it was unnecessary to toss that lamb on top the other lambs, but at that age, they are made of rubber and I suppose it didn't hurt the lamb. They get much worse treatment from being butted by other sheep. It's just hard to watch a human being so rough. 2. The point of pushing the orphan lamb up next to the lamb being born was to mingle the birth fluids that were pooling underneath across both lambs so as to cause the ewe to think that both of them were hers. Some ewes can't count past 1. 3. The lady dragging the lamb into the pen to coax the ewe in with it was simply saving her back from having to carry the lamb. Again, you probably thought it was a little rougher than necessary, but wool lambs are a lot heavier than blackbelly lambs and it is probably easier to drag them than carry them. With small blackbelly lambs, I just hold the lamb in from of me and back into the pen, making sure the ewe sees and smells the lamb the entire way. I've had no luck putting the lamb into the pen and trying to get the ewe to go in afterwards. If I don't keep that lamb right in front of her nose, she loses interest or goes off in a different direction to search for her lost lamb elsewhere. It's less of a problem with experienced mothers than first-timers. And most blackbely moms need no help at all. Woolie sheep need constant attention at lambing. That's why those farmers were taking the lambing duties in shifts--24 hours around the clock. 4. Yes, the lamb pelt was skinned from a lamb that had died earlier. They were dressing an orphan lamb into the pelt to trick the ewe into thinking the orphan was the lamb she had given birth to. I hope that some others on this list are now intrigued enough by this discussion to rent the movie. You won't regret it. Carol At 03:03 PM 8/24/2010, you wrote: Carol. I watched this movie using streaming on my iPad. Fantastic! Thanks for the suggestion. Had to show some of the good parts to my wife. Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] good movie about sheep
Carol. I watched this movie using streaming on my iPad. Fantastic! Thanks for the suggestion. Had to show some of the good parts to my wife. Beautiful scenery. The movie's pace forces you to slow down and do things on their time. Very effective. My favorite scenes were the one where the herder is fed up and cussing up a storm, then calls his friend from a mountain top (to get cell reception) and tells him all his woes. Hilarious and also--you feel for him. In both cases, the scenery is incredibly beautiful. Also, the older cowboy seems to take things in stride...always talks nice to the animals and seems to have a great affinity with them, his dog and his horse. I tend to be more like him... The streaming version has no commentary available, so I'll have to get the DVD. Not being a rancher, I had a few observations/questions which some of you might like to answer: 1] when the ewes are all lambing, and they are trying to graft that little ram onto a lambing ewe, why toss it from a few feet away, on top of the other newborn like that? seems unnecessarily harsh. 2] Also there's a scene where a ewe is just giving birth and they appear to be putting another lamb in there right at the same moment and touching the lambs together. I imagine this is to try to graft the other lamb onto this mother? 3] the one lady who is trying to get the ewe into a lambing pen with her newborn, is gently dragging the newborn across the ground into the pen. Is that to leave a scent trail? I have no problem getting ewes into a pen by simply placing the lamb in there, and applying some pressure from behind, to urge the mother in. 4] They appear to be putting a Onesie on one of the orphaned lambs, and make comments that the ewe will "think her dead newborn is back to life". Is that a lamb pelt from a newly dead lamb, or something made of cloth? (The streaming video is not that clear) All in all very enjoyable. I'll be ordering the DVD so I can see a clearer version of it, and to get the DVD commentary. -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies. On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 8:10 PM, Carol Elkins wrote: > I watched a good movie called "Sweetgrass," available from Netflix at > http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Sweetgrass/70128353?trkid=226870 > > Actually, I watched it twice, once without the audio commentary and then > again with the audio commentary turned on. The movie is a documentary about > a family of Montana sheepherders as they drive their flock of 3000 sheep up > into the mountain range and then back down when the 2002 grazing season is > over. I think everyone who raises sheep will be captivated by the movie. It > documents the last sheep trailing done in this area of Montana, the end of a > 104-year ranching tradition. People with herding dogs will enjoy watching > the dogs on the trail. People with LGDs will enjoy watching the LGDs protect > the sheep against grizzly bear. There is very little dialog, and what there > is is often streams of profanity by one of the men herding the sheep. But > the sheep noises are really important to the film, and you miss all of this > with the commentary turned on. That's why it is worth watching twice. The > commentary explains a lot of what is going on. If you subscribe to Netflix, > I highly recommend this movie. > > Carol Elkins > Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep > (no shear, no dock, no fuss) > Pueblo, Colorado > http://www.critterhaven.biz > > ___ > This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list > Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info > ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] KIDNEY FAILURE - IVY
Lin, Glad to hear Ivy is holding her own. Just had another thought...have you looked inside her mouth?? She might not eat if something is hurting her, like a sore or a weed seed imbedded in her mouth or a tooth problem...worth a look. Not sure how you can force feed hay...probably not a good idea. Beth in OR PS You could soak sugar beet pellets until they mush...1 cup pellets to a qt of water, then you can add a scoop of pro-biotic powder for large animals to it...might help her rumen get going. Mine love bread chunks, apples and oatmeal cookies, too. I'd try anything like that to entice her to eat. ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] KIDNEY FAILURE - IVY
There was info a long time ago on this site about Apple Cider Vinegar. The recipe is 1/2 Cider Vinegar and 1/2 water given at a rate of 20cc/20lbs/day or there about. The cider vinegar works on NDR (not doing right) critters like it does humans. Simple recipe! Might help. It saved a friend's dog. Rhonda --- Original Message --- >From: ljacob4...@aol.com[mailto:ljacob4...@aol.com] Sent: 8/24/2010 12:23:18 PM To : blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Cc : Subject : RE: [Blackbelly] KIDNEY FAILURE - IVY Thank you all for your responses. I didn't know how to do plain text, but do know now. We have three (pet) sheep. Ivy is our sick one. When Ivy was feeling good, she and the other two ate pelleted grain at night and free-feed grass/alfalfa mix hay along with fresh grass, etc. outside. They also get pretzels at night and sometimes corn or peanuts but not often on the last two. Ivy and her twin are seven years old; Mom, Tawny, is eight. They have eaten this same diet for years. They roam free during the day; however, this summer have chosen to stay in (a well-ventilated) barn because the mosquitos are so bad. They are stalled at night. Ivy has been sick now for about six weeks...just stayed by herself and seemed somewhat lethargic. The Vet put her in the hospital on Tues. 8/10 to Mon. 8/16. They flushed her kidneys daily. She had a slight kidney infection so was put on antibiotics. The Vet said it now is up to her. When I brought her home, she looked better...held her ears higher, seemed to be more alert and had more energy. The Vet wanted me to isolate her so that I could monitor her intake and output. We set up a dog kennel so she could see the other two sheep but I didn't feel she was doing well that way so she has been with the other two ever since. Before going into the hospital, she stayed by herself in the barn but now seems to stay with the other two most of the time. I know she is drinking but I don't see her eating. I think she started out around 200+lbs. and the Vet now thinks she is about 150. She looks exactly like her sister now. The Vet told me that if Ivy didn't start eating or drinking, we would have to make a decision. I decided to try holistic medicine. Since last Thurs. 8/19, I have been force feeding her. I soak 1/2 to 2/3 Cup of grain in 3 C. water 3X/day. Not sure how much grain she should get on a daily basis. The Vet said she should be drinking 1 1/2 to 2 gal. water/day. Since I couldn't find a syringe with a large hole, I use a baster. It works! She also gets 2 tbs. liquid mineral supplement (Super Coat 40), essential oils every other day and a high frequency light on her 2X/day. She looks better but I still don't see her eating much on her own. She licked a salt block for a long time this morning. I also got some show feed (sweet feed) for her as well as dried distillery grain. I put it down and I see her nibble at the sweet feed. Thank you for the suggestion of Nutra Drench solution. I will get some today. I need to get some roughage into her but not sure how to do that. I can give her fresh grass or grass hay (no alfalfa). Any suggestions how to force feed hay? It's really hard to tell if Ivy is holding her own but I still think she looks fairly good. I'm just really concerned that I don't see her eating on her own. I'm open to any suggestions. Thank you for all your help. Lin - Madison, WI ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at % http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] KIDNEY FAILURE - IVY
If she gets hungry whe will eat roughage. Be sure it is kept fresh and available at all times. Keeping her with the rest of your flock is best, she will stress anytime you separate. I understand about pet sheep. We once put over $1000 worth of IVsolution in a pet sheep to save it from enterotoxemia. It worked and she is still alive and ornery... Cecil in OKla - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 12:23 PM Subject: [Blackbelly] KIDNEY FAILURE - IVY Thank you all for your responses. I didn't know how to do plain text, but do know now. We have three (pet) sheep. Ivy is our sick one. When Ivy was feeling good, she and the other two ate pelleted grain at night and free-feed grass/alfalfa mix hay along with fresh grass, etc. outside. They also get pretzels at night and sometimes corn or peanuts but not often on the last two. Ivy and her twin are seven years old; Mom, Tawny, is eight. They have eaten this same diet for years. They roam free during the day; however, this summer have chosen to stay in (a well-ventilated) barn because the mosquitos are so bad. They are stalled at night. Ivy has been sick now for about six weeks...just stayed by herself and seemed somewhat lethargic. The Vet put her in the hospital on Tues. 8/10 to Mon. 8/16. They flushed her kidneys daily. She had a slight kidney infection so was put on antibiotics. The Vet said it now is up to her. When I brought her home, she looked better...held her ears higher, seemed to be more alert and had more energy. The Vet wanted me to isolate her so that I could monitor her intake and output. We set up a dog kennel so she could see the other two sheep but I didn't feel she was doing well that way so she has been with the other two ever since. Before going into the hospital, she stayed by herself in the barn but now seems to stay with the other two most of the time. I know she is drinking but I don't see her eating. I think she started out around 200+lbs. and the Vet now thinks she is about 150. She looks exactly like her sister now. The Vet told me that if Ivy didn't start eating or drinking, we would have to make a decision. I decided to try holistic medicine. Since last Thurs. 8/19, I have been force feeding her. I soak 1/2 to 2/3 Cup of grain in 3 C. water 3X/day. Not sure how much grain she should get on a daily basis. The Vet said she should be drinking 1 1/2 to 2 gal. water/day. Since I couldn't find a syringe with a large hole, I use a baster. It works! She also gets 2 tbs. liquid mineral supplement (Super Coat 40), essential oils every other day and a high frequency light on her 2X/day. She looks better but I still don't see her eating much on her own. She licked a salt block for a long time this morning. I also got some show feed (sweet feed) for her as well as dried distillery grain. I put it down and I see her nibble at the sweet feed. Thank you for the suggestion of Nutra Drench solution. I will get some today. I need to get some roughage into her but not sure how to do that. I can give her fresh grass or grass hay (no alfalfa). Any suggestions how to force feed hay? It's really hard to tell if Ivy is holding her own but I still think she looks fairly good. I'm just really concerned that I don't see her eating on her own. I'm open to any suggestions. Thank you for all your help. Lin - Madison, WI ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] KIDNEY FAILURE - IVY
Thank you all for your responses. I didn't know how to do plain text, but do know now. We have three (pet) sheep. Ivy is our sick one. When Ivy was feeling good, she and the other two ate pelleted grain at night and free-feed grass/alfalfa mix hay along with fresh grass, etc. outside. They also get pretzels at night and sometimes corn or peanuts but not often on the last two. Ivy and her twin are seven years old; Mom, Tawny, is eight. They have eaten this same diet for years. They roam free during the day; however, this summer have chosen to stay in (a well-ventilated) barn because the mosquitos are so bad. They are stalled at night. Ivy has been sick now for about six weeks...just stayed by herself and seemed somewhat lethargic. The Vet put her in the hospital on Tues. 8/10 to Mon. 8/16. They flushed her kidneys daily. She had a slight kidney infection so was put on antibiotics. The Vet said it now is up to her. When I brought her home, she looked better...held her ears higher, seemed to be more alert and had more energy. The Vet wanted me to isolate her so that I could monitor her intake and output. We set up a dog kennel so she could see the other two sheep but I didn't feel she was doing well that way so she has been with the other two ever since. Before going into the hospital, she stayed by herself in the barn but now seems to stay with the other two most of the time. I know she is drinking but I don't see her eating. I think she started out around 200+lbs. and the Vet now thinks she is about 150. She looks exactly like her sister now. The Vet told me that if Ivy didn't start eating or drinking, we would have to make a decision. I decided to try holistic medicine. Since last Thurs. 8/19, I have been force feeding her. I soak 1/2 to 2/3 Cup of grain in 3 C. water 3X/day. Not sure how much grain she should get on a daily basis. The Vet said she should be drinking 1 1/2 to 2 gal. water/day. Since I couldn't find a syringe with a large hole, I use a baster. It works! She also gets 2 tbs. liquid mineral supplement (Super Coat 40), essential oils every other day and a high frequency light on her 2X/day. She looks better but I still don't see her eating much on her own. She licked a salt block for a long time this morning. I also got some show feed (sweet feed) for her as well as dried distillery grain. I put it down and I see her nibble at the sweet feed. Thank you for the suggestion of Nutra Drench solution. I will get some today. I need to get some roughage into her but not sure how to do that. I can give her fresh grass or grass hay (no alfalfa). Any suggestions how to force feed hay? It's really hard to tell if Ivy is holding her own but I still think she looks fairly good. I'm just really concerned that I don't see her eating on her own. I'm open to any suggestions. Thank you for all your help. Lin - Madison, WI ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
