[Blackbelly] hay
Carol, Texas has no hay in our area either so hay is being purchased from out of state. Of course they are mostly large round bales and some large square bales. We have been feeding hay since the first week of July because our pastures dried up. My husband searches on a web site called Hay Exchange. Beware though of what you buy. He got taken on one load, because they bales were over 200 lbs lighter than what he was told so he is not happy with that load. You have to buy the entire load but maybe you can share a load with another local farmer. Cathy Mayton LeapN Lambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] hay waste
Carol, I made hay feeders for my sheep, and they eat every scrap with no waste. Each feeder feeds 3 sheep. Is there anyway that I can post a picture to this site? I viewed the lucerne horse feed from Maine. Sounds like Chaffhaye, only without the added grain. Liz Radi Idar Alpacas, Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep Nunn, Colorado 970-716-7218 idaralpaca.blogspot.com --- celk...@awrittenword.com wrote: From: Carol J. Elkins celk...@awrittenword.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info,doublejfa...@wildblue.net Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Hay for the winter Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 17:30:39 -0600 Ummm, good point, John. My grain mix costs about $0.25/lb, so it would cost less than $4.00/sheep/month to feed 1/2 lb per day. In contrast, my sheep eat (and waste) about 2 bales of alfalfa hay per month (alfalfa is just about the only hay available here and none is available now). So 2 bales at $7.00 each (if I could get it) would be $14/month. So I really need to supplement the hay with as much grain as they can safely eat, not only to reduce their hay consumption and conserve the supply I have but to save money overall. Thanks for helping me see that. I have to feed hay for 6 months and then my pasture is good for the other 6 months. I've been feeding the ewes about 1/4 lb of grain/day year-round (and more when they are gestating or nursing), so I will up that to 1/2 lb. I have never fed my rams grain or corn unless it gets below zero for several nights. I'm going to change that this year. We'll see if it reduces the hay consumption or not. Because I feed free choice, I'm just hoping they don't make pigs of themselves. I wish I could figure out how to prevent so much hay wastage. Carol At 05:04 PM 10/23/2011, you wrote: Carol: I have only used alfalfa pellets (the small ones, Tractor Supply ~$11/40#) as an added treat in a grain mix of corn and oats, or to the 12% All Stock pellets I now feed. When my pastures turn brown, I use Bahia or Bermuda grass hay (that is what is available locally in southwest Alabama) pretty much free choice and put out about 1/4 to 1/2 pound of grain per head per day. Decent local hay is $5-$6/bale and imported alfalfa hay is $14/bale. To carry 15 head over the winter I go through about 45 bales (~50#) of hay. Sheep still have access to the pasture and will nibble around but they really come running when I add a new bale of hay or put out the grain. John Carlton Double J Farms ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] hay
In defense of the farmer that sold you the hay, it is extremely difficult to get an accurate weight on round bales of hay. In the same field, I have found as much as 300 lbs difference between hay bales. While there are some out there who are taking full advantage of the plight of farmers and ranchers in the drought areas, most of us hay producers are trying to produce a good product and make a fair profit. However, in order to supply someone from another area or state we have to have either lost a past client or make extra cuttings we would not have made in previous years. It is said that the second cutting of prairie hay will only take away from the next years cutting. I have utilized chicken litter fertilizer on our pastures. This natural fertilizer appears to be able to build up the soil and it has allowed my pastures to produce 2 cuttings of hay here in central Oklahoma in the middle of this drought. However, if you do the math, it cost $65/acre 2 years ago when we applied the litter. It costs $38/bale to cut windrow and bale a 4x5 round bale weighing approx 1200 lbs. That is in the field. Most truckers will haul for about $5.50 per loaded mile for a 30 to 36 bale load. It takes about an hour to load a truck. The costs I have quoted do not account for wear and tear on the equipment. Only fuel and labor. I pay from $10 to $12.50 per hour for labor. I sent some hay to the Western part of the state for $55/bale. It was ear my true break even cost. If the hay price would stabilize at $50 to $60 per bale, then there would be a surplus held over to provide buyers when weather problems occur. However when it is sold at $30 or less, many of us producers cannot stay in business. We only bale enough to take care of our own stock. If the horse market had not gone down the toilet here in Oklahoma, folks in the drought areas would be much worse off. I had 250 bales left from last year due to a horse client going out of business. Earlier this year I begged for buyers, but everyone waited until the last minute. I would love to sell my hay from the field, and not have to store it until winter. I have to be concerned with fire, tornadoes, and have to move it twice and then deliver it, to only be beat down on my price again at delivery. I have baled horse quality hay for the last 10 years. I have a large client list and have had to buy hay to be able to feed my own animals in order to provide my clients with hay that I had baled and could guarantee what was in the bale. I bought equipment last year to be able to bale small bales and deliver them in 100 bale lots to horse clients. As I said the horse market went down the toilet due to the economy. I had another horse client who decided to buy hay from their neighbor instead of me because the neighbor would sell for $2 a round bale less!!! I had torn up my equipment on their rough fields and even found and hauled a newer tractor to them for free when their own tractor fell apart. If the hay buyers would get their money together and buy when the hay is being baled, and then provide themselves some means of storage and handling, then they would be in a much better situation. Also the producer could depend upon a buyer for his product. Instead, I hear that it is just too much money to buy hay in the summer, but they can pay $10/bale more in the winter. There are a lot of CRP fields that are being baled here in Oklahoma and it is being sent out of state. This has a lot of old growth in it, and it will only be good as a filler, supplement will have to be provided, as this is only roughage. The weeds are probably the best thing in the hay. I had a neighbor buy some for $92 dollars a 5x6 bale delivered 40 miles, and a 7 bale lot. However, these bales weigh no more than my 4x5 bales. The hay is dried out and bleached, it is just a filler.The light bales you bought may very well be from CRP ground. I might also add that the development and urban sprawl makes finding hay fields a problem. We have these large fields of grass here just going to waste because the owners would rather mow it 4 times a summer and pay $75/hr to have it mowed than allow someone to get hay from it at no cost... Go figure. I know this rambles, but I thought you should get the perspective from a hay producer. I must say that I will not sell hay to anyone that I would not feed to my own animals. Cecil in OKla On 10/24/2011 8:18 AM, Crystal Wolf wrote: Carol, Texas has no hay in our area either so hay is being purchased from out of state. Of course they are mostly large round bales and some large square bales. We have been feeding hay since the first week of July because our pastures dried up. My husband searches on a web site called Hay Exchange. Beware though of what you buy. He got taken on one load, because they bales were over 200 lbs lighter than what he was told so
Re: [Blackbelly] hay waste
Hi Liz, Most members don't realize it but this group has a Web site at http://www.blackbellysheep.info/ If you send me the photo, I will post it to the scrapbook. I made my own feeders as well and there are photos of them in the Scrapbook. I'd love to see yours; anything to reduce the wastage. Carol At 07:45 AM 10/24/2011, you wrote: Carol, I made hay feeders for my sheep, and they eat every scrap with no waste. Each feeder feeds 3 sheep. Is there anyway that I can post a picture to this site? ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] Selenium addendum
BBSAI-- Heard from the NRCS guy today and he said that the Dakotas, Nebraska and NW Kansas are in a high selenium area. It comes from shale to the north and is in the N Platte river. From the S Platte river where we are, the elevated levels of selenium are suspected as coming out of the effluent that Denver dumps in the Platte! He says that water storage areas like a couple of irrigation system lakes east of here cause a higher level of selenium also. I asked the feed store manager why they were selling added selenium sheep mineral for areas low in it when in fact we are high in it. He checked and Purina Mills doesn't make a sheep mineral with lower levels and ADM actually has a higher level in theirs than Purina! My personal vitamin bottle says that it's selenium is 268% the RDA! Seems like in the last few years this mineral has been the hottest buzzword in healthfood promos. The NRCS guy found that people with skin cancers that have high levels of selenium do better and are also at much less risk in getting other cancers. Beyond the RDA levels is not good so more is not always better. Do I really need 268%? Bottom line again--you have to know your own sheep and your own location's nutrients. And...in cases like ours in the middle of nowhere NE, I may have to start ordering on line if a good sheep mineral in 50lb bags is available anywhere. -eldon- Eldon Andersen P.S. Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you! That's my conspiracy theory. ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Alfalfa pellets/cubes
I'm wondering if you have access to the large rectangular bales. Sort of like a round bale, but the large 3x3x7 foot bales are heavier than a round bale and they are flaked like small bales. The large bales I get are about 850 pounds, that's quite a lot of small square bales and I only pay $60 for the large bales. They last me, 7-8 days and I am feeding 6 horses and 13 sheep. Small bales around here from the same hay guy are $5.00 a bale. If I use small bales I use 4 bales a day, that's $20 a day! If you have a tractor and a place to store them, I have found they are definitely saving me money. Nancy L. Johnson imgr8a...@comcast.net cell: 301 440 4808 - Original Message - From: Carol Elkins celk...@critterhaven.biz To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 7:03:34 PM Subject: [Blackbelly] Alfalfa pellets/cubes I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do when the hay supply runs out next spring before my pasture comes in. I can't find small bales anywhere locally and those that are farther away are going for up to $12/bale. So I'm wondering about alfalfa pellets or cubes. I know of only two sizes--pellets for rabbilts (1/4 in. diameter or so) and cubes for horses. I've learned thus far from a goat site that I trust that you can feed the cubes in conjunction with hay, but not as a total replacement. Sheep and goats need the long fiber in hay for their rumens to work properly. The cubes are too chopped up and processed to be a total replacement. The site also said that sheep will not be able to eat those hard cubes as isand that I should either break them up with a hammer or soak them in warm water. That's a lot of work I'd rather not have to do. Do any of you have any experience feeding alfalfa pellets and if so, what quantity and what size pellet and what worked? Carol Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Alfalfa pellets/cubes
I have used both cubes and pellets for horses. After my experience, I would never use the pellets again. The alfalfa pellets made my horse founder terribly. The cubes are fine, when you soak them, but my sheep don't really like the wet alfalfa, which is what it winds up being. Southern Stages and other supplies sell hay forage, which I used for my older horse who couldn't chew the long stemmed hay. It was the same hay, just chopped up so the horses who didn't have great teeth could get their nutrients. My sheep absolutely love the forage. Around here it comes in 40 pound bales, the bales are very compressed, when you empty it into a can, it fills up a Large trash can. They will get fat on it though, you have to learn how much to use, but it may be an option for you. Nancy L. Johnson imgr8a...@comcast.net cell: 301 440 4808 - Original Message - From: Carol Elkins celk...@critterhaven.biz To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 7:03:34 PM Subject: [Blackbelly] Alfalfa pellets/cubes I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do when the hay supply runs out next spring before my pasture comes in. I can't find small bales anywhere locally and those that are farther away are going for up to $12/bale. So I'm wondering about alfalfa pellets or cubes. I know of only two sizes--pellets for rabbilts (1/4 in. diameter or so) and cubes for horses. I've learned thus far from a goat site that I trust that you can feed the cubes in conjunction with hay, but not as a total replacement. Sheep and goats need the long fiber in hay for their rumens to work properly. The cubes are too chopped up and processed to be a total replacement. The site also said that sheep will not be able to eat those hard cubes as isand that I should either break them up with a hammer or soak them in warm water. That's a lot of work I'd rather not have to do. Do any of you have any experience feeding alfalfa pellets and if so, what quantity and what size pellet and what worked? Carol Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Alfalfa pellets/cubes
This is the forage I was talking about. I have also used beet pulp for my horses, only we needed to let it soak in water like the cubes. If I didn't soak in water, they would choke. I did have a sheep choke on it once, she got into it and really liked it and sucked it down too fast and started to choke Nancy L. Johnson imgr8a...@comcast.net cell: 301 440 4808 - Original Message - From: Terry huntnda...@yahoo.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info, lizr...@skybeam.com Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 4:31:05 PM Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Alfalfa pellets/cubes Carol I found a product called forage feed' designed for older horses that cannot chew up their hay very well. http://www.lucernefarms.com/ I found it was a very clean (lack of dust) way to have hay for my rabbits when they live indoors-- The packaging is about the size of a bale of peat moss or shavings-- and is quite compacted, yet the feed fluffs out very nicely. I have fed the compressed cubes tothe sheep-- but yes, soaking them first is a must-- and you can get compressed timothy. Alfalfa pellets are just going to cause trouble if they are a main source of nutrition--- BUT--Beet pulp can be used to up the fiber content of a homemade mix of rations. Of course, whole oats, and even BOSS, in the shell, excellent working fiber when all is said and done. Terry W NE OHIO ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Hay for the winter
How many sheep do you have and how much hay do you put out per day. You said you only use 45 bales for the winter--what time frame does that cover? Maybe because I've always had horses to feed, I find 45 bales to sound absolutely wonderful. Nancy L. Johnson imgr8a...@comcast.net cell: 301 440 4808 - Original Message - From: Double J Farms doublejfa...@wildblue.net To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 7:04:08 PM Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Hay for the winter Carol: I have only used alfalfa pellets (the small ones, Tractor Supply ~$11/40#) as an added treat in a grain mix of corn and oats, or to the 12% All Stock pellets I now feed. When my pastures turn brown, I use Bahia or Bermuda grass hay (that is what is available locally in southwest Alabama) pretty much free choice and put out about 1/4 to 1/2 pound of grain per head per day. Decent local hay is $5-$6/bale and imported alfalfa hay is $14/bale. To carry 15 head over the winter I go through about 45 bales (~50#) of hay. Sheep still have access to the pasture and will nibble around but they really come running when I add a new bale of hay or put out the grain. John Carlton Double J Farms ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
