Re: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else
I also think it was coyotes, especially since your neighbors have been hit, the coyotes just decided it was your turn. They will absolutely be extremely happy to help themselves. We are in north-central TX and we broke down early this year and ended setting up several snare traps along our fenceline because we were having huge problems this lambing season. Lost about 1/4 of them, nine or ten probably, in Dec. and Jan. Lost at least as many last summer. We had a trapper come out and set up the traps and we caught six over about a four-week period. The snare traps he used were from Fur Harvester's Trading Post in MI. Looking for the dig marks under the fence has already been pointed out, but if you have barbed wire fencing, their fur is usually on a barb over the area that has been dug. The fur is wirey, a dog's fur will be softer and fluffier on one end and wirey at the other end. BUT, with our experience using the snares, they don't just hold the coyote (or raccoon, or cat, or anything else that might be unfortunate enough to pull through the trap), they are usually dead. It will strangle the animal, or in the case of the racoon and then the cat that we caught - holds and is pulled tighter around lower-midsection and with the animal trying to escape I think they cause major internal damage. One of the coyotes was still alive, barely, when I came across it. I was more than happy to put him out of his misery. It's not a pretty sight, but I have come out to find way too many dead sheep because the coyotes think they are in their personal cafeteria. As far as the live-trap goes, don't hold your breath. Coyotes don't want to go into something. As an example, you can make a mountain lion trap by putting bait (live goat, etc.) in a trap, keeping it safe though probably terrified, set up a corridor situation (with leg traps inside) around the trap and a mountain lion will go in it, but the coyotes will not go near it. Can't hurt to try the live-trap, especially since you have one, but I personally wouldn't waste my time and effort. Our fence is 7-strand barbed wire all around our property and I have seen the coyotes go through any of the sets of wires and seen many places where they have dug under. I think the only fencing that will keep out the coyotes, and neighbors dogs, is sheep and goat fencing or field fence. Sheep and goat fence would also keep raccoons and probably skunks out (obviously no problem attacking sheep, but those have both killed part of our chicken population). Sorry for your loss, the bottle-babies are always the worst to lose to predators. I lost one of my bottle-baby ewe lambs, Zoe, two years ago (she was 13 months old) to a coyote. Found her the same way I usually do, and you too in this case, with the buzzards circling and landing. Sounds like your sheepies have safe places to be until you can get the other pasture fence fixed up. Good luck. Elaine ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else
thanks for the replies, and confirmation, Mark and Cecil. Mark's description of the stomach contents was exactly what I saw. What an education. I took a ton of pics from many angles, in spite of my grief, so I could review and learn from them, and teach my 2-year old son. as far as traps go, Cecil, I could simply address the gaps. 30% of my neighbors have sheep on their close proximity 1.5 - 5 acre plots. It's a smorgasboard around here. I was stupid and arrogant to think that just because I had not been hit yet, and all my neighbors had, that my fencing was better. Well, it is better than theirs, except for that one pasture. I feel awful, since she was probably attracted to the coyotes. first thing is to get the fencing together in that pasture. I could set up a live trap in the meantime. I have a large enough one that might work. The other thing that concerns me is: I just taught the coyotes where to go to get a meal. not that they are still in that pasture, but the coyotes will continue to check until I slip up, or fix the problem. _MWS On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 4:53 AM, Mark Wintermute wrote: > Hello Michael, > > The greenish brown mass was the stomach contents. This mass being found > away from the carcass indicates to me it was a predator or canine scavenger. > Canines eat the offal first all except the stomach contents. Vultures are > the ones that are very good at cleaning up the carcass. > > I have watched my very large Great Pyrenees lay down on his side and > squirm/flop/stretch/crawl under a six inch gap of field fence. He probably > is three times the size of the coyote around here. > > If the ewe died from natural causes this time of year she would "cook" > pretty fast attracting canines. Even peaceful family dogs will not pass up > the meal of a dead ewe that has been in the hot sun all day. Our Great > Pyrenees who protects the flock feasts on a dead sheep after it has > "cooked". > > Sorry for your loss, > > Mark > > > -Original Message- > From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info > [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of Michael > Smith > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 12:18 AM > To: blackbelly > Subject: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else > > (Moderator--I am re-sending this in plain text.) > > New to sheep, started in 2008 as some of you folks know, and our fencing has > been real good. Last night I might have underestimated the ability of > coyotes to get under a fence-- on our far pasture-- that a cat or rabbit can > get under. > > Came home from work today to see almost 10 large California turkey vultures > flying away from a carcass as I came out. My favorite, sweet bottle baby > ewe, Ruby. She was about 3 years old and had one of my favorite ram lambs > who I kept intact. > > If she was attacked, I feel particularly bad, since she was attracted to our > dog since she was a lamb, and possibly was not as afraid of any canine > predators as she should have been. All the rest of the 9 sheep and 3 goat > appear absolutely fine. Let's put it this way. I have an old ewe who I fully > expected to see lying there, since she is deaf as a post, and slow as > molasses. So, an apparently healthy, perky ewe suddenly was dead, and if she > was predated, the animals decided not to continue to feast on more of them. > > Here are some details I am hoping some of you can help with. I have pictures > I can post on my website later, if it comes down to it. > > 1] carcass has obviously been out all day, since we saw a vulture or two > flying this morning, but took no note of it, since they are around most > every day anyways. We both had to get to work and I did not go out and count > the sheep. I am thinking she died early Tuesday morning (June 4). > > 2] body was stripped clean, except for the neck, head, and skinny portion of > the legs with hooves. No large pool of blood or anything like that. No > obvious blood trail from dragging. > > 3] I inspected the neck, on the side facing the ground, the side the > vultures did not pick on, there was an area of hair slightly matted with > blood. Even though she had shed her winter coat, her hair is so thick, it is > difficult to say for sure if there's punctures, but I really don't think the > vultures caused this. I am thinking that is how she was strangled, if that > is what happened. > > 4] curiously, since I am new to this, about 10 feet from her was a large, > almost 2-foot wide layer of what looked more like llama or horse manure. Not > like sheep manure, where it would be black and processed into pellets. It > was clumpy and grassy and some was fresh enough to be wet and greenish > brown, when broken. They did have mowed grass for lunch on Sunday, which I > threw over the fence. There are no large ruminant animals that are in that > pasture. > > question is: did she simply have some sort of digestive problem and evacuate > her bowels and die from some sort of distress? or could she
Re: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else
I have had this problem before. You have to find the entrance point (usually dug under the fence) and set a snare. Northwest Trappers in Minnesota has noose snares that have worked for me. You will probably need to become creative on setting your snares. Coyotes are very intelligent. Some of them know to move the snare out of the way before entering your pasture to chase, maim and eat your beloved Sheep. Use little sticks to camouflage the noose and direct it's steps with rocks strategically placed. In most cases the snare does not hurt the coyote just holds it until you get there. Look very carefully for tracks. Coyote tracks are inside of one another. (the rear foot steps inside of the rear foots track) -Original Message- From: Cecil R Bearden To: blackbelly Sent: Wed, Jun 5, 2013 4:56 am Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else Sounds like coyotes or coyote/dog cross.Look for a trail into your pasture and set a trap. Cecil in OKLa On 6/5/2013 12:17 AM, Michael Smith wrote: > (Moderator--I am re-sending this in plain text.) > > New to sheep, started in 2008 as some of you folks know, and our > fencing has been real good. Last night I might have underestimated > the ability of coyotes to get under a fence-- on our far pasture-- > that a cat or rabbit can get under. > > Came home from work today to see almost 10 large California turkey > vultures flying away from a carcass as I came out. My favorite, sweet > bottle baby ewe, Ruby. She was about 3 years old and had one of my > favorite ram lambs who I kept intact. > > If she was attacked, I feel particularly bad, since she was attracted > to our dog since she was a lamb, and possibly was not as afraid of any > canine predators as she should have been. All the rest of the 9 sheep > and 3 goat appear absolutely fine. Let's put it this way. I have an > old ewe who I fully expected to see lying there, since she is deaf as > a post, and slow as molasses. So, an apparently healthy, perky ewe > suddenly was dead, and if she was predated, the animals decided not to > continue to feast on more of them. > > Here are some details I am hoping some of you can help with. I have > pictures I can post on my website later, if it comes down to it. > > 1] carcass has obviously been out all day, since we saw a vulture or > two flying this morning, but took no note of it, since they are around > most every day anyways. We both had to get to work and I did not go > out and count the sheep. I am thinking she died early Tuesday morning > (June 4). > > 2] body was stripped clean, except for the neck, head, and skinny > portion of the legs with hooves. No large pool of blood or anything > like that. No obvious blood trail from dragging. > > 3] I inspected the neck, on the side facing the ground, the side the > vultures did not pick on, there was an area of hair slightly matted > with blood. Even though she had shed her winter coat, her hair is so > thick, it is difficult to say for sure if there's punctures, but I > really don't think the vultures caused this. I am thinking that is how > she was strangled, if that is what happened. > > 4] curiously, since I am new to this, about 10 feet from her was a > large, almost 2-foot wide layer of what looked more like llama or > horse manure. Not like sheep manure, where it would be black and > processed into pellets. It was clumpy and grassy and some was fresh > enough to be wet and greenish brown, when broken. They did have mowed > grass for lunch on Sunday, which I threw over the fence. There are no > large ruminant animals that are in that pasture. > > question is: did she simply have some sort of digestive problem and > evacuate her bowels and die from some sort of distress? or could she > have done that when killed, and then was dragged the 10 feet? Or, was > it the contents of her stomach after being killed, and then she was > dragged? It was a rather large amount, and difficult for me to imagine > any of the animals having that much come out at once, normally. Again, > there appeared to be no blood on it at all. > > I appreciate any one reading this, and any advice or help you might > have to offer. > > The ewes and wethers have since been moved to our most secure pasture, > and the dog is sleeping with them tonite instead of the rams. > > -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies. > ___ > This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list > Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else
Hello Michael, The greenish brown mass was the stomach contents. This mass being found away from the carcass indicates to me it was a predator or canine scavenger. Canines eat the offal first all except the stomach contents. Vultures are the ones that are very good at cleaning up the carcass. I have watched my very large Great Pyrenees lay down on his side and squirm/flop/stretch/crawl under a six inch gap of field fence. He probably is three times the size of the coyote around here. If the ewe died from natural causes this time of year she would "cook" pretty fast attracting canines. Even peaceful family dogs will not pass up the meal of a dead ewe that has been in the hot sun all day. Our Great Pyrenees who protects the flock feasts on a dead sheep after it has "cooked". Sorry for your loss, Mark -Original Message- From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of Michael Smith Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 12:18 AM To: blackbelly Subject: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else (Moderator--I am re-sending this in plain text.) New to sheep, started in 2008 as some of you folks know, and our fencing has been real good. Last night I might have underestimated the ability of coyotes to get under a fence-- on our far pasture-- that a cat or rabbit can get under. Came home from work today to see almost 10 large California turkey vultures flying away from a carcass as I came out. My favorite, sweet bottle baby ewe, Ruby. She was about 3 years old and had one of my favorite ram lambs who I kept intact. If she was attacked, I feel particularly bad, since she was attracted to our dog since she was a lamb, and possibly was not as afraid of any canine predators as she should have been. All the rest of the 9 sheep and 3 goat appear absolutely fine. Let's put it this way. I have an old ewe who I fully expected to see lying there, since she is deaf as a post, and slow as molasses. So, an apparently healthy, perky ewe suddenly was dead, and if she was predated, the animals decided not to continue to feast on more of them. Here are some details I am hoping some of you can help with. I have pictures I can post on my website later, if it comes down to it. 1] carcass has obviously been out all day, since we saw a vulture or two flying this morning, but took no note of it, since they are around most every day anyways. We both had to get to work and I did not go out and count the sheep. I am thinking she died early Tuesday morning (June 4). 2] body was stripped clean, except for the neck, head, and skinny portion of the legs with hooves. No large pool of blood or anything like that. No obvious blood trail from dragging. 3] I inspected the neck, on the side facing the ground, the side the vultures did not pick on, there was an area of hair slightly matted with blood. Even though she had shed her winter coat, her hair is so thick, it is difficult to say for sure if there's punctures, but I really don't think the vultures caused this. I am thinking that is how she was strangled, if that is what happened. 4] curiously, since I am new to this, about 10 feet from her was a large, almost 2-foot wide layer of what looked more like llama or horse manure. Not like sheep manure, where it would be black and processed into pellets. It was clumpy and grassy and some was fresh enough to be wet and greenish brown, when broken. They did have mowed grass for lunch on Sunday, which I threw over the fence. There are no large ruminant animals that are in that pasture. question is: did she simply have some sort of digestive problem and evacuate her bowels and die from some sort of distress? or could she have done that when killed, and then was dragged the 10 feet? Or, was it the contents of her stomach after being killed, and then she was dragged? It was a rather large amount, and difficult for me to imagine any of the animals having that much come out at once, normally. Again, there appeared to be no blood on it at all. I appreciate any one reading this, and any advice or help you might have to offer. The ewes and wethers have since been moved to our most secure pasture, and the dog is sleeping with them tonite instead of the rams. -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies. ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3184/6383 - Release Date: 06/04/13 ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else
Sounds like coyotes or coyote/dog cross.Look for a trail into your pasture and set a trap. Cecil in OKLa On 6/5/2013 12:17 AM, Michael Smith wrote: (Moderator--I am re-sending this in plain text.) New to sheep, started in 2008 as some of you folks know, and our fencing has been real good. Last night I might have underestimated the ability of coyotes to get under a fence-- on our far pasture-- that a cat or rabbit can get under. Came home from work today to see almost 10 large California turkey vultures flying away from a carcass as I came out. My favorite, sweet bottle baby ewe, Ruby. She was about 3 years old and had one of my favorite ram lambs who I kept intact. If she was attacked, I feel particularly bad, since she was attracted to our dog since she was a lamb, and possibly was not as afraid of any canine predators as she should have been. All the rest of the 9 sheep and 3 goat appear absolutely fine. Let's put it this way. I have an old ewe who I fully expected to see lying there, since she is deaf as a post, and slow as molasses. So, an apparently healthy, perky ewe suddenly was dead, and if she was predated, the animals decided not to continue to feast on more of them. Here are some details I am hoping some of you can help with. I have pictures I can post on my website later, if it comes down to it. 1] carcass has obviously been out all day, since we saw a vulture or two flying this morning, but took no note of it, since they are around most every day anyways. We both had to get to work and I did not go out and count the sheep. I am thinking she died early Tuesday morning (June 4). 2] body was stripped clean, except for the neck, head, and skinny portion of the legs with hooves. No large pool of blood or anything like that. No obvious blood trail from dragging. 3] I inspected the neck, on the side facing the ground, the side the vultures did not pick on, there was an area of hair slightly matted with blood. Even though she had shed her winter coat, her hair is so thick, it is difficult to say for sure if there's punctures, but I really don't think the vultures caused this. I am thinking that is how she was strangled, if that is what happened. 4] curiously, since I am new to this, about 10 feet from her was a large, almost 2-foot wide layer of what looked more like llama or horse manure. Not like sheep manure, where it would be black and processed into pellets. It was clumpy and grassy and some was fresh enough to be wet and greenish brown, when broken. They did have mowed grass for lunch on Sunday, which I threw over the fence. There are no large ruminant animals that are in that pasture. question is: did she simply have some sort of digestive problem and evacuate her bowels and die from some sort of distress? or could she have done that when killed, and then was dragged the 10 feet? Or, was it the contents of her stomach after being killed, and then she was dragged? It was a rather large amount, and difficult for me to imagine any of the animals having that much come out at once, normally. Again, there appeared to be no blood on it at all. I appreciate any one reading this, and any advice or help you might have to offer. The ewes and wethers have since been moved to our most secure pasture, and the dog is sleeping with them tonite instead of the rams. -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies. ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
