[Blackbelly] worming sheep with DE and Garlic Barrier
While still living in Nevada six years ago, I purchased my breeding stock of American Blackbelly (ABB) and now I have 5 Katahdin hair sheep. During my first year of raising the ABB sheep I used Cydectin for worming, but then I read about diatemaceous earth (DE) for worming and began using that. I misted their grain with 50/50 water/ACV and then sprinkled the grain with a good dusting of DE which works well for worming the sheep. I had also read about Garlic Barrier in Sheep! Magagzine. Three years ago this May we moved to NE Texas, and I introduced myself to a local veterinarian shortly after moving here. I told him that raised sheep and he said you'll have to worm your sheep here every 30 days. I told him that I used DE and he said that my sheep would die here if I just used that. (Geez, no wonder the wormers don't work anymore) I located a young couple who raise grass fed sheep about 1 hour west of where we live, and they were mixing DE into kelp and free feeding the sheep this mix. They also did a drench periodically with a liquid Amway soap. So for the first year here in TX, I used the DE/kelp mix and then I looked the info back up regarding the Garlic Barrier and bought a gallon of that in 2010. I continued free feeding the DE/kelp mix and did a periodic drench with Garlic Barrier and water (no more than 3 x per year) and that works really well. If an animal gets thin and the Garlic drench did not seem to work, I would give them a dose of SafeGuard but that is pretty rare. This year I had a ram lamb born in March and in July he started to lose weight. He did not have bottle jaw and I checked the inside of his eyelids to see if he had good color and he did. But I went ahead and gave him the garlic drench and reweighed him a week later. He was not responding after a couple weeks of drenching and weighing. Approximately 3 weeks ago I moved all my rams to another pen so now I can't weigh him. But about 2 weeks ago, I got the idea to make a slurry out of DE and the Garlic Barrier to drench him with that. I did the drench 3 x a week for a couple weeks and I can see now that he is putting weight back on. His shoulders are filling back in and his coat is no longer dull and dry feeling. So from now on I will do the combination of the DE/Garlic Barrier for all the sheep when I do the drench because it gives them a good dose of the DE that way. Last year I did lose a lamb that I tried for 3 months to save him to no avail. I took him to the vet and he ended up selling me 2 different commercial wormers because the first one given did not work. He sent me home with the last dose and said if this does not work then the best thing to do is put him down. Even though he was a freezer lamb I wanted to do the best I could to save him but nothing worked. I guess he just had a really weak immune system and no matter what I did I could not save him and we did put him own. BTW, also add this to the dog's dinner periodically and the poultry feed as well. I mist the poultry feed as I do the sheep's grain so that the DE sticks to their feed. Just thought I would pass this on. Cathy Mayton LeapN Lambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] hay
Carol, Texas has no hay in our area either so hay is being purchased from out of state. Of course they are mostly large round bales and some large square bales. We have been feeding hay since the first week of July because our pastures dried up. My husband searches on a web site called Hay Exchange. Beware though of what you buy. He got taken on one load, because they bales were over 200 lbs lighter than what he was told so he is not happy with that load. You have to buy the entire load but maybe you can share a load with another local farmer. Cathy Mayton LeapN Lambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] DE
My apologies for using an acryonym without the explanation. Diatameceous earth is (DE) is fossil flour that comes from Utah. It is tiny ancient fossils ground into a flour consistancy. When fed to poultry, dogs, cats, horeses and sheep it literally cuts up the internal parasites. It is also good for human consumption as well. BE SURE however that you buy food grade DE. There is also DE for swimming pools which is not for consumption by any animal. I mist their grain with 50/50 apple cider vineger and water (another natural wormer). This allows the DE and granulated garlic to cling to the feed and cut the flour dust down when they eat it. I also mix it in their kelp along with granulated garlic. The lamb I had to destroy had intestinal worms but I don't recall the name of the worm. This is the worst case of internal parasites I've had. Normally if someone gets wormy which does not happen very often, I will give them a garlic drench first for a couple days. If that does not work, then I give the SafeGuard at a rate twice noted for goats. Most times the garlic does the trick. I rarely have to use the SafeGuard. So this guy was must have had a really poor immune system. I tried for 3 months to save him, to no avail. Oh, I also put DE in the holes where the poultry do their dust baths to help keep off the mites and lice on the birds. Cathy Mayton LeapNLambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] blackfaced ABB continued
Carol, Thank you for the information regarding the blackfaced ABB ram. Since moving to NE Texas it has been a bit frustrating to see and hear that anything that has horns or has a a blackbelly is referred to as Barbado sheep. After reading the pdf you attached this explains it all. Thank you. Cathy Mayton LeapN Lambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] blackfaced ABB ram
Someone had an American Blackbelly ram for sale or trade on Craig's list. Are ABB with black faces considered part of the breed? He looks like an ABB accept for the black face. Could he be part Black Hawaiian? Cathy Mayton LeapN Lambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] blackbelly economics
I too have the same feeling regarding trying to make a profit from these sheep as previously posted by Cecil and others. Technically I am a newbie breeder of just under 5 years compared to breeders like Carol and Mary. I enjoy each of my sheeps daily personalities and mobbing when I take treats out to them. When we lived in Nevada, I used to grow lambs for folks who wanted a freezer lamb but since moving to NE Texas I won't do that unless it is for a friend. In the long run the profit is higher when the lambs are sold as weaners and I am not responsible for their health and welfare for almost a year. However, one enterprise you may want to consider, is keeping the hides for tanning if you have the opportunity to do so. I had a few taned hides stored up when we moved to TX but I had not tapped into a market per se. However, there is a small rustic furniture store here and I asked the owners about selling the hides on consignment. This was worked out great for me and it seems beneficial to the owners as well. They have sold every hide I have taken to them, except for 2 hides that were not blackbelly. They were blackbelly crosses from a previous Nevada neighbor and those sat in the store for over a year so I brought them home. The customers love the blackbelly hides. When we have a lamb sent to the butcher I ask them to keep the hide. I then salt the hide until it is dry and prepare it for shipping. I send my hides to Buck's County Fur and they do an excellent job. The hides are georgous!! Also, if I remember correctly, Carol had a link for lamp shades that were made of bladders..so this gives you a couple ideas of how to market your sheep. Hope this helps, Cathy Mayton LeapN' Lambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] bottle babies
I have 2 bottle babies right now and the first one weighed 4.5 lbs and was a bit week. She was rejected by her mom and so I decided to bottle feed her. She too did not take much the first couple days but now she is 6 weeks old. It was really cold when she born so we put a large dog kennel in the house. Our floor is tile and pergo so we let her run the house but put her in the kennel at night or if we were not in the house until she was 3 weeks old and bouncing off the furniture. I have better luck bottle feeding the lambs using human baby bottles and nipples. I've had to make the hole larger in the nipple and I carefully clip a hole that will allow the milk to flow but not drown the lamb. It may take a few times to figure out how large to make the hole. You may have to open her mouth to get th nipple in but after a few tries, she will get it. I've have also used small syringes placed in the side of the mouth to get lambs to eat especially new borns. I am using Sav A Lam milk replacer. Both of my lambs did get a little loose but I just gave them 2 doses of about 3 ml of Pepto Bismol and that worked really well. The little ram lamb was rejected by his mom as well. After 2 days of tightly penning her, we figured out she probably did not have enough milk for 2 lambs. He will be a month old on Thursday and he too is growing like a weed, this little guy gained 8 lbs in 3 weeks. hope this helps along with all the info you have already received, Cathy Mayton LeapN' Lambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] sheep and onions
Hello Peter, It was interesting to read about Blackie eating the grilled onions and how much they were enjoyed. I feed onions to my sheep all the time. Anytime I trim the onion ends and skins, they go into the sheep bowl. Although some of the sheep are more particular than others, Tess my oldest ewe has the biggest variety of things she likes. They include; lemon rinds, oranges, onions, artichoke leaves and heart (after I have eaten my part), noodles (I usually cook too many), watermelon/cantaloupe rinds any trimmings from vegetables and the list goes on. When potato or tortilla chips are just crumbs in the bag they go to the sheep or the chickens. The sheep especially Tess also love corn and flour tortillas. I have probably left some things out but it gives you an idea of just what these critters will eat. Have fun, Cathy Mayton LeapN Lambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] sheep cat video
Michael, Really enjoyed watching the video of your sheep and cat, thanks for sharing it. Cathy Mayton LeapN Lambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] Peter's winter report
That is really neat Peter that your sheep learned a hand signal. These sheep are pretty smart. Most of my girls are not as tame as yours most of them are touch me not. I do have a couple that will sniff my fingers and most of them will take treats from my hands. I give them the large breeder cubes and they are like a bunch of piranha, even climbing over the top of others to get more treats. They get other treats as well such as bottom of the bag potato/tortilla chips and they like onions and such. So trimmings from vegetables I give them as well and I have one ewe that likes lemons. Blondie may have been in heat and that is why she may have wanted your attention, especially if the behavior only lasted a couple of days. These girls come in about every 17 days. I have a couple wethers with my girls to keep them happy when I don't want them bred. They also go down to where my rams are and stand outside their fence. Fortuntely the boys respect the barb wire fence line. I did not realize just how strong rams are until last summer when they literally bent up a stock gate because they were fighting each other through gate. Fixed that though so they can't see each other when they are with their assigned group of girls. My sheep don't mind the rain much either unless it is raining pretty hard, then they get into their shed to wait out the rain. This summer they actually got their coats nice and clean in the summer rain. Sounds like you enjoy your sheep as much as I do. They each have their personality and of course some more than others and I really get a kick out of them. There are several that recognize their name. Tess, my oldest ewe will come when called. Well have a good weekend and thanks for sharing your sheep. Cathy Mayton LeapN' Lambs “Today I will embrace all that comes into my life and raise the spirits of others”. Gabriel Life isn’t about waiting for the storm to pass, it’s about learning to dance in the rain. Author unknown. ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] dog training questions
What is a reasonable amount of time to ask a working dog to down and stay? Sometimes, I want to put my dog on a down/stay and go off to do something that may take 10 minutes or so. Tarra is a 5 and half year old Border Collie who has a mind of her own and can be quite stubborn. When I put her on down/stay, Tarra will stay for awhile and then the next thing I know she has gone out to the big pasture to round up the ewes. When I tell her to down in the pasture, she ignores me and keeps bringing the sheep in. She knows that when we go do the evening feeding and watering that the ewes will be brought in from the big pasture to be secured for the night. When we got Tarra, I did not have sheep and she was 2 years old before I got the sheep, so initially Tarra was a pet and we played with the frisbee and such. I have to limit playing with toys because she gets obsessed and would rather play than work. We also have a Border Collie puppy that turned a year old the end of July who would be a workaholic if you let her. Kali loves to work so much so that we cannot let her run loose or she will be working the poultry and anything else that moves, she but is afraid of the adult ewes as is Tarra. She will go after cattle with no problem but oh, no not those ewes.I do have 2 ewes in particular that charge the dogs (and have rolled Tarra in the past) and actually our mixed breed dog set one of the ewes straight one day. Is this something Kali will grow out of? Also Tarra has some really long outruns but Kali wants to dive in and head them off, however, she is still learning her directions. I do believe Kali is a natural header as she keeps an eye on the lead sheep and if it makes a move she wants to cut it off. I am trying to teach her to go wider but she has a tendency to hunker down and try to hold them from running past her. We keep her on a 10 foot rope that she drags around so that if she ends up chasing a chicken we can catch her. The dogs are kenneled during the biggest part of the day so that Kali does not get into trouble. Are these tendencies something she will grow out of? I realize she is still a puppy. I appreciate any input I can get. Cathy Mayton LeapN Lambs Pattonville, TX ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] thanks for input on introducing young rams to adult rams
Thanks to all who have given me suggestions for introducing Thor to the adult rams. Michael thanks also for the link to photos of when you introduced Ziggy to the big boys. I think I'll try the small pen first and then send them down to their normal area once I see how they treat Thor. Thor thinks he's a big boy and a month or so ago he was butting heads with the wether Apollo. Apollo is in charge of the little girls and Thor thought he would take Apollo on but was set straight. Maybe he'll see the adult rams are a lot bigger than him and it will be wise for him not to challenge them. Cathy Mayton LeapN' Lambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] buyer contact
Cecil, I am glad that guy turned out be legit and took so many sheep off your hands this past fall. I hope you kept his number in case you need to sell a large group of sheep again. Every once in awhile I get a weird email regarding purchasing sheep and most times can figure out quickly they are not legit. That guy however, called me direct and so glad he was able to help you out. You both got what you wanted. Sounds like you have your hands full with the neighbors horses and they are taking advantage of a really nice neighbor. I hope it warms up soon and stays warm with less rain. I have experienced more rain since moving to Texas than I have in my entire lifetime. Last week we got 7 inches of snow but that was a nice change from all the rain and it sure was pretty. My sheep need to evolve and develop webbed feet...but this will be my next posting. Cathy Mayton LeapN' Lambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] putting young rams in with adult rams
What age or weight is recommended for putting young ABB rams in with the adult ABB rams? I have a 6 1/2 month old bottle raised ram that is getting a bit rambuctious (no pun intended). He weighs about 75 lbs and the adults rams weigh between approximately 135-170 lbs. He meets me at the gate when I feed and is rearing up to get his head in the bucket. Then he is trotting beside me and he likes to swing his head around and he has the wider horns, so sometimes he catches clothes with his horns. I have him and his brother (wethered) in with the bred ewes which are not due until mid April. He gets onery sometimes and rears back to charge so I carry a small stick which he respects when I have it. I don't want to get him hurt by the adults but maybe they will tone him down a bit. I told him if he stays onery he'll be in the freezer. He takes after his grandpa who was put in the freezer. His dad was quiet and stayed his distance but I lost him just prior to our move to Texas. So I would at least like to get some lambs out of him and if he is still onery after that, he''ll go down the road. Cathy Mayton LeapN' Lambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] follow up death of lambs
Hi Cecil, Thanks for the information regarding the probable cause of death in the neighbors lambs. I would have written sooner but was out of town for a week. I will pass this on to the folks who lost their lambs and also about the suggestion by the other posting to have wormed the lambs. Not sure they will get lambs again though and it was a tragic lesson. Cecil do you still have the link you mentioned regarding the goat site regarding the enterotoxin? This is a great group and I grately appreciate all the information shared by our fellow breeders. take care, Cathy Mayton Leap'N Lambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] blackbellies vs wool sheep
Dave, We have butchered a few of our American Blackbellies at home as well. You want to make sure the lamb is calm before killing so that the meat is tender and like Beth mentioned, my husband uses 1 quick shot and it is over. When we lived in NV, we had a Basque neighbor that killed his lambs by slitting their throats and I thought that was pretty inhumane because the lamb was gasping for breath, but I guess there are others that use that method as well. In February we bought a bandsaw that works pretty good for making the cuts and then we packaged using a vacuum sealer. The meat is easier to cut up if it really cold. You can also wrap the cuts in plastic wrap and then in white butcher paper if you don't have a vacuum sealer. We are not as fast as the butchers but it is not that difficult to butcher a lamb and winter is a good time because you can hang the meat in a shed for about a week before you cut the meat up for freezing. When we lived in NV the butcher was a hour away and cost $60 to kill, cut and wrap. Since moving to NE Texas there is a butcher in Deport which is less than 20 miles away and they charge $40 to kill, cut and wrap. However, we ended up going to Sulphur Springs because the one in Deport does not take farm animals during deer season so it was a hour drive and $60 to kill, cut and wrap. By butchering yourself, you can also use the waste to feed your dogs..our dogs love lamb. I salt the hides and send them to Buck's in Pennsylvania for tanning and I have 2 that will be ready for shipping to them shortly. The tanned hides are beautiful. Hope this helps, Cathy Mayton LeapN' Lambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] growth rate for American Blackbelly sheep
Jerry, with less than 4 years experience, I am a newbie at raising American Blackbelly sheep (AB). However, most times at 3 mo old my lambs weigh between 28-38 lbs. I've had a ram lamb that weighed 48 lbs at 3 mo. We recently took a yearling ewe and wether to the butcher and the ewe weighed 72 lbs and the wether 94 lbs live weight. I have 3 adult rams Zeke who will be 4 in January, weighing about 165 lbs., his son Indy at 170 lbs and Gambler about 135 lbs. These weights were taken summer of 2008 and I need to get a better set-up to be able to weigh the adults. On average the wethers grow better than the ewes and most times weigh just under 100 lbs at 11-12 months. Rams of course will out grow the ewes but I don't keep ram lambs because they are usually wethered or sold as ram lambs. I do have a ewe though that will be 2 the end of January, who is larger than my other ewes and I'm guessing she probably weighs close to 120 lbs. The older adult ewes most likely easily weigh well over 100 lbs and once I get a scale than I can report better on adult weights. I think as Carol mentioned, they don't rich their full potential until they are 2 years old. I am breeding for larger animals, long bodies (for more chops), meaty shoulders, rumps and less wool. I culled many from my first crop due to what I felt was too much wool. Unless a lamb is sold and the new owner wants it registered, I don't normally register my sheep until they are close to a year old. This way I can cull traits that I don't care to have. In fact I have 3 yearling ewes (born October 2008) that I need to register. If they are too wooly then they are sold or put in the freezer, which was the case of the yearling ewe.too wooly. My stock animals came from breeders in CA. In May this year, we moved to NE Texas and have seen a few AB's. It appears that the sale barns lump BB's and AB's together and call them barbado's. So far what I have seen here is that the sheep are much smaller than mine. I don't breed my ewes until they are at least a year old to give them time to grow so they are close to 17 months years old or better before they have their first lambs. As a long time BB breeder, Carol gave you some very beneficial information from around the country regarding the AB's, and what I have described above is just my experience with my small flock of AB's. Like Carol, I am not sure the cause of your wethers being very lightweight. My sheep were dry lot fed alfalfa hay and grain when we lived in NV. Since moving to NE Texas, they have grass to graze on and are grain fed as well. Now that winter is here, they are getting hay and their grain twice a day. Maybe some of the other AB breeders can give you their flock statistics. If you are looking for a ram, I want to sell Zeke since I have his son Indy, I don't need 2 of the same blood line. Hope this information is helpful to you. Cathy Mayton LeapN' Lambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] B complex
You can probably Google B complex but my understanding is the the B vitamins are water soluble and whatever the body does not utilized is excreted in the urine. So I believe it is difficult to overdose B vitamins. However, it is best to research this for yourself. Cathy Mayton LeapN' Lambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] blind lamb
I have 2 ram lambs that were born this summer. We moved from NV to NE TX and 2 of my ewes started losing weight. The one ewe got better and delivered twin ewe lambs. Her sister however, continued to lose weight and got down to literally skin and bones. She was on deaths door and I was doing all I could to keep her alive and she delivered the twin ram lambs that weighed 4 and 5 lbs. They did not have much muscle mass in the hind limbs and the smallest lamb had trouble keeping his hind legs together. I bottle raised the boys and continued to help the ewe get her strength back. At about 2.5 months I noticed blue coloring in their eyes but only in dimmed light. I ended up calling Pipestone Veterinary and they suggested B complex and vitamin A for 7 days. I went and got a high potency vitamin B complex in liquid form and vitamin A (25,000 IU) in the capsules. I gave them about 5 cc of the B complex and 1 capsule of the A every day for 30 days. Thor the larger lamb seems to have regained most of his sight and he gets around good. Zeus I believe is blind in the right eye but can see some with his left. He gets around fine but sometimes bumps into a fence. He eats well, grazes well and does well when being moved into different pens. Zeus is now a wether and my pet. The two lambs were weaned at about 3 months and they are penned together. I put a small bell on Thor so that Zeus can find him. I talked with a friend today who is a veterinarian and he was Googling while we were talking. He said that most times blindness in sheep is a thiamine deficiency (B vitamin). You might want to Google as well to find the dosage for a thiamine injection to see if you can help the little guy. Their mom Molly is doing great and is healthy again. Mostly likely in my case, something happened in utero while these lambs were being carried due to the extreme poor condition of the ewe. I guess there were 2 many changes for Molly and she got stressed and went down hill. The boys are healthy and follow me around better than the dogs. hope this helps, Cathy Mayton LeapN' Lambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
