Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing
See, all my African sheep are resistant. And that's enough for me to know.To follow a Government enforced scrapie program, something very different. Wait and see.Johnes disease, which is spreading in Mexico in large and Caribbean breeds not able to cope with, much more important to look at. Can't see why BB then the market for blackbelly sheep will skyrocket..., as they are unable to produce even 1/4 of a good wool sheep in flock does. The parasite resistance story about BB and St Croix, I have had them here in large numbers ask the guys in Texas, running a 1000 head of ewe, which breed are parasite resistant. For to make money, with breeds available, BB would never work.With Texel hybrids you make just 3 times the money, as they are able to handle the parasiste much better. I still have 10 year old Texel hybrid ewes, giving birth in November, and now an other set of twins. BBout of 600 head, may a 5 survived , the day we went out of drenching.With out medicamentation it is absolute impossible to run a larger herd of BB On no list you see such amount of problems as on the BB list, that should open our eyes and ask us, where to invest into the breed regards Helmut - Original Message - From: Carol J. Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing There are a lot of reasons that blackbelly owners might want to test their sheep for scrapie susceptibility. I agree, Helmut, that when it was just a question of complying with the government, I wasn't very enthused about the testing. Why should I spend money testing for something that our sheep don't get? However, my interest perked up when I started reading that blackbelly sheep might have a very unique genetic resistance to scrapie. In basic marketing terms, if we have something that no one else has, and everyone wants it (especially if the government is telling them they have to), then it would be to our advantage to figure out why we have that something and then figure out a way to capitalize on selling it to the have-nots. Part of learning whether or not blackbelly sheep have a unique genetic scrapie resistance involves learning the genetic makeup of our sheep, and that requires that we test them. The more of us that test our animals, the more data we have. And if that data indicates a uniqueness in our genetics, then we will have an easier time getting one of the researchers interested. If, through research, we learn that our sheep have a magic bullet in their genetics, then the market for blackbelly sheep will skyrocket. That's my logic, anyway! Carol At 01:31 PM 5/26/2006 -0700, you wrote: Did anyone of you ever observe in BB scrapie ? Our province has never had any scrapie, but you should see how much money the Govenment is willing to put in, hundredthousands of dollars.For what, something nobody realy knows about ? And than have a look how much is done, to keep a breed as BB in good conditon. But the real problem maker is not the Govenment, it is the Farmer who accepts what ever the Government tells him to do. Before I have to do Scrapie testing in my sheep, sheep which never have had any Scrapie, seems better for me to give sheep farming up.Let others do and look about the succes they gone have. That's the way I see it ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.2/349 - Release Date: 26/05/2006 ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing
Very good information, thank you. But: They seem to do better on forage that the woolies do not fare well on. Working with a few thousand hair sheep in different breeds, and on side a 300 wool sheep in different breeds, no way that the average hair sheep even would come close to the production of the woolies. What has to do with the small number of hair sheep which are on the market, genetically too close. How do you like to compete against a Ile de France, where a Government did invest many Millions of Dollars to improve, against a St Croix, where no money has been invested ? St Croix on our ranch do not survive under normal management more than a 5 months, or I have to use medicamentation.But steady I read article of farmers with small and well protected flocks, how parasite resistant those sheep are.And that is not true once the flock is crowed and under stress. And about hot climate?Mexico imported large numbers of Ile de Franc, and they do in hot climate extreme well. And Mexico imported more than a 100 000 hair sheep, of very resistant type. I see Mexico producing lamb for US in large scale very soon.High quality wool/hair hybrid lambs. The Mexicans invest in meat production, and that's where we don't look at enough. About ...Big Brother but there are some things we just cannot try to get under the radar with.. most of the large Texas sheep breeders wrote me, that they have been forced in the scrapie program. I have seen one thing in my live, where ever the public did adapt too much to the government orders, country in short time in dept. See Germany , as example, always head down and they do what the Government is telling them.No money in the country. Switzerland? One the Government did artificial bring the price for butter up, the Swiss did not eat butter for a year.After that the Government gave up and butter was even cheaper than before. Strong democratie works with commonsense and does not accept money vaste. Regards Helmut - Original Message - From: Terry Wereb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing Whoa! Are we not trying to breed out the influence of other breeds in the BB? The AB, by accidental design, is a mixed breed, with many of the physical characteristics of the original BB. There are SOME AB breeders wanting to breed for more than just trophy horns-- overall structure, carcass quality and genetic health being their goal. And that is how a pure breed gets established-- careful genetic manipulation by controlled breeding. I know that is the purpose, supposedly, of everyone that joins the BB consortium. I sit and watch other sheep forums, as well, in order to learn more about sheep in general-- and I see the same types of issues, in perhaps the same numbers, on them, with the woollies and other hair sheep. The purpose of a hair sheep is NOT to produce wool-- it is to produce meat--on the forums where several breeds are covered, it is unanimous that hair sheep cost less to raise to maturity/slaughter. They seem to do better on forage that the woolies do not fare well on. And of course, being from warmer climes, the hair sheep are readily adapted to our warmer areas-- and in the colder ones, they do grow a protective winter coat-- here in the US, a lot of wool goes to waste. What is sold is sold to a small market of hand spinners and knitters. the market is very tight-- so much so, that I have noticed the prices on the alpaca products dropping like lead bricks! Even the so called premium fibers are not demanding a decent price. We have to test/be in a program if we want to be able to particiapte in anyimprted semen program-- so we grit our teeth, and particiapate-- not willingly, but we do. And yes, Johnes is a much more serious thing to be worrying about-- but we do need to be able to rake advantage of any fresh genetics we can get further down the road. Of course, we can help keep resisteance in our flocks by minimizing the chemical interventions we make. We can cull poor lambing ewes, por mothers, etc. Unfortuneately, the genetics game is an expensive one--I priced the cost of the basic equipment to start the genetic screening process, and I do not believe any of us in the BB, or even the AB, have 10 Thousand USD, to spend on just part of the process!! (That does not include the fees to license the use of the equipment) And, to top it off, the equipment I found was not even geared towards sheep--probably making the cost even higher for such a specialty testing program. many of us here do not like Uncle Sam playing Big Brother but there are some things we just cannot try to get under the radar with.. So we test, and we comply, bust just ebough to stay legal... Terry W --- hlang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: See, all my African sheep are resistant. And that's enough for me to know.To
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing/Johnes Long
Don't like to border too much with my writing. But for years, and Carol remembers that, I tell one thing: Blackbellies need much more copper, up to three times more than wool sheep. For example, with a copper level where a BB just drives well, a Texel would die in a time of three weeks. Now, if you select BB or AB with out sufficient copper , than you select just to the opposite . You create over the years a sheep which is much similar to average breed.The african or caribean type of sheep need a lot of copper and zinc to developpe parasite resistance. So the selection should be, as much copper as possible, to see which lines are able to handle that. And once you have the lines back , the gentics which can handle lots of copper, than you have as well the parasite resistance.Wool sheep do not need the copper for parasite resistance, as long as they have baltic blood. Last year we decided to feed the same feed to cattle ( 60 heads) as to our sheep. You know what happened to us? Plenty of lambs, the ewes are rebreed shortly after birth and lambs are coming and grow well. Cattle? Only one calf survied, they could not handle the spoiled silage. 15 years of harsh selection in sheep made the sheep way harder and healthier than my cattle. Why? Because in the first years, our cattle have been much better in regarding health than our sheep.So I did not cull so hard.. regards Helmut - Original Message - From: Barb Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing/Johnes Long I got sort of heckled off the Shedders list for bringing up mineral imbalances as causes for certain health problems. I got scoffed at because I might be reading Pat Coleby's books on natural animal care. Well, I do read Pat Coleby and she was the one who alerted me to the lack of copper in the diet as a cause for lack of resistance to a lot of diseases, including Johne's and parasites. My flock was suffering from a lot of low grade health issues. Some of those issues got pretty serious. The vets just kept saying worm 'em. Treat 'em for cocci. I dunno. These are lousy sheep. They're always dying. THREE vets couldn't make my sheep well. With a lot of trepidation, I mixed up Coleby's mineral lick which is blue with copper sulfate, but which has other minerals that buffer the copper. The sheep broke out in a war over the mix. When each in turn had gotten a tiny amount they pretty well ignored it, though they would go to it occasionally, dab their tongues in it, then go away. At this point, I went through a lot of agony, thinking I had poisoned my flock. But instead, I saw an abrupt end to virtually ALL the problems I was having. One lamb I was calling Rat Boy because he was so scruffy, is growing up into a gorgeous wether. And the really wierd thing is looking at fecal samples under the microscope. At a time when the ewes should be shedding eggs like crazy, there is hardly one. But what I have seen, is a nematode-like thing with one end blown out. Several of them. Maybe they get parasites, but their boosted immune system kills them??? Copper boosts the immune system and Coleby cites instances where farmers have bought Johne's bulls, put them on copper sufficient pastures and never had another symptom. It's all anecdotal, certainly not scientific. But we are CONSTANTLY being told not to give copper to the sheep without regard for what's actually in their feed. I analyzed all our feed and found out that the hay (including alfalfa pellets) is all sub-par for sheep in copper. But the BIG problem is that there is too much molybdenum. The ratio should be 6-10 parts copper to 1 part moly, and we were typically getting 2 parts copper to 1 part moly, when the copper wasn't adequate to begin with. In one alfalfa pellet sample we got 2X the TOXIC level of iron. There is too much potassium, which ties up the magnesium, which is probably why grass tetany is such a problem. It's not a lack of magnesium, which is adequate, it's way too much potassium. On all the hay samples the iron was way too high. But interestingly, our new crop of hay is off land that has not been chemically farmed in many years. A lot of the values are still off, but the iron content of the forage is 1/4 of the chemically farmed hay, just .04 above the upper limit for sheep. The hay came from a field about a mile away from the high-iron field that has been chemically farmed. Good for my sheep, bad for the hay field - All the nutrition from that field left that field and came to mine, where it will be run through the sheep and horses, and then enhanced, as compost, will go to nourish MY pasture, MY sheep all over again. That field will never be replenished and will eventually give out because all the nutrients are being transported off of it, never to return. I think that all this
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing
Why do you think that the Barbados sheep are so fragile, as we see on this list week by week? Because the selection is very difficult if raised in small number. Once the animal is raised in large number, only the best survive. That's why the African sheep, always in contact with wildlife, are extremely resistant and able to survive in difficult terrain. Only those imports which came out of large flocks, herds over a 3000 heads, did survive here in our climate. If you like to get fragile sheep, take them from an quarantine station, university or an island, where they have not been in contact with any disease or not managed in large number, with out pressure on selection. regards Helmut - Original Message - From: Stephanie Parrish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing Well, why would you want to raise any sheep that are crowded and under stress? There really is no reason to raise sheep that way. Stephanie On May 27, 2006, at 12:21 PM, hlang wrote: I read article of farmers with small and well protected flocks, how parasite resistant those sheep are.And that is not true once the flock is crowed and under stress. ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.2/349 - Release Date: 26/05/2006 ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Breed Crossing
15 years ago we did some breeding of Jacob rams to Blackbelly. As the Blackbelly sheep are in comparison to other breeds in very low number and extreme difficult to raise, as we see on this list daily, with 1/4 of Jacob genetics lots of problems could be solved.Jacobs are much sturdier, less losses in lambs, less problems with parasites The best breed to use in BB would be the Romanov, shedding is much better in first generation, 50:50 already a good sheep Would be a way to improve, if there is still a possibility to improve regards Helmut - Original Message - From: Terry Wereb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info; Nancy Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Breed Crossing Why would you want to do that? Mixing genetics of two relatively rare breeds removes one more chance for the ewe to [pass on her genetics to others of her 'kind.' Terry --- Nancy Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We were just wondering if anyone had ever crossed a Jacob 4 horn sheep with a Black Belly? If so what did you get? We were thinking about doing this but were wondering if anyone else had experimented either on purpose or by accident. Thanks ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.0.0/268 - Release Date: 23/02/2006 ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[blackbelly] Some of the article
Don't think that he overdramtized. Most of today's population are already top slaves and have no clue what real live is,free live. Lots of illusion, and let the Government do kind of live.. So it is good if someone does it as strong as possible, to send the message. Anyhow, it does not need long time and the humans on this continent are as weak as the sheep let them fight !Quality live is important, and where I live, they don't have a clue what quality live is. Working in the day in front of a computer or in factory, evening TV and beer...no energies to fight or to create. So we should be happy for every person able to understand and to wake others up. Regards Helmut - Original Message - From: Carol J. Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 5:08 PM Subject: [blackbelly] things you can do regarding NAIS I'm going to ask you to do two things: 1. Read the rather lengthy article at http://www.farm-garden.com/node/802/print written by Lynn Miller, editor, founder, and publisher of the Small Farmer's Journal. Some of the article is a bit overdramatized, but it illustrates the point of what MIGHT happen to small farmers after NAIS is implemented. Read it and form your own opinion. 2. Visit the web site at http://www.stopanimalid.org/ and do at least ONE of the things listed in the Get Involved list. It can be simple and quick. It can perhaps make a difference. For those of you new to the list, NAIS is the National Animal Identification System, to become federal law by 2007. It will require us to tag all livestock and report all movement of the livestock, deaths, etc. to the government. I have some pretty strong opinions about it, but it would be better for you to learn everything you can about it on your own because I cannot speak without bias. Items #1 and #2 above each have a list of excellent resources that will get you started. Carol Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz T-shirts, mugs, caps, and more at the Barbados Blackbelly Online Store http://www.cafepress.com/blackbellysheep ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.0.0/267 - Release Date: 22/02/2006 ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[blackbelly] This is all just a guise to get more taxes
This is all just a guise to get more taxes don't think so, what they like to do, more control and that your get used to be step by step controlled - Original Message - From: Cecil Bearden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] things you can do regarding NAIS I got a call from the USDA about Christmas time... They wanted to know how many sheep I had and how many I sold and haow many died, etc etc. etc.. I did not really think much about it until I asked her about getting some more ID tags and she said I would have to call the state... I then figured out this was the US govt... This is all just a guise to get more taxes. Livestock trading has long been a sore spot with the IRS folks cause they can't trace it... - Original Message - From: Carol J. Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:08 PM Subject: [blackbelly] things you can do regarding NAIS I'm going to ask you to do two things: 1. Read the rather lengthy article at http://www.farm-garden.com/node/802/print written by Lynn Miller, editor, founder, and publisher of the Small Farmer's Journal. Some of the article is a bit overdramatized, but it illustrates the point of what MIGHT happen to small farmers after NAIS is implemented. Read it and form your own opinion. 2. Visit the web site at http://www.stopanimalid.org/ and do at least ONE of the things listed in the Get Involved list. It can be simple and quick. It can perhaps make a difference. For those of you new to the list, NAIS is the National Animal Identification System, to become federal law by 2007. It will require us to tag all livestock and report all movement of the livestock, deaths, etc. to the government. I have some pretty strong opinions about it, but it would be better for you to learn everything you can about it on your own because I cannot speak without bias. Items #1 and #2 above each have a list of excellent resources that will get you started. Carol Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz T-shirts, mugs, caps, and more at the Barbados Blackbelly Online Store http://www.cafepress.com/blackbellysheep ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.0.0/267 - Release Date: 22/02/2006 ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] HELP --Broke leg!!!
Looking now at your mail, there must be a feeding problem. In many thousand ewes and years, not one broken leg at our ranch. Because of the pregnancy, calcium and as may some minerals have been taken out of the bones and used by the embryos. Do you feed lime ? Duck tape and a wooden stick, if it is the front leg, what I assume, it would heal in the next three weeks, under condition that she gets the right kind of feed. Conifers, herbs, but you have to be there when the lambs are born. If you send me your phone number, Heidi gone talk with about how to do it regards Helmut - Original Message - From: Stephanie Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 5:47 PM Subject: [blackbelly] HELP --Broke leg!!! OK ---I know there are some knowledgeable folk who can help I need it!! I have a 130 lb ewe heavy with lamb. I'm expecting twins just any day. BUT, yesterday when I got home she was down with a broke leg. It is broke above the hop (knee) . Called 2 vets and they both said to shot her. She is soo close to lambing that I decided to wait and talk to you folks this morning. I did give her some percocet pain pills--good or bad, because I hated to see her suffer. She seems to be able to get up and lay down. And she is eating some.My questions are this: 1--can she lamb with that leg broke? (we are ready to bottle feed) 2--can the leg heal on it's own? (I know animals in the wild do heal, usually ending up with a bum leg---but they are alive!) 3-- Do you folks think it can be set? 4-- Do you all think I should just shot her and relieve her from her suffering :( ? You all are a good bunch of people and I know that somebody out there must have had this problem ALL HELP APPRECIATED!!! Stephanie ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 30/01/2006 ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Number of lambs
If well fed, at each lambing ! - Original Message - From: Nancy Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 7:11 AM Subject: [blackbelly] Number of lambs Hello, can anyone tell me how common it is for a BB ewe to have triplets? Nancy ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.23/243 - Release Date: 27/01/2006 ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Number of lambs
In our management, selecting only on ewelambs which have been born in Septermber Keep only ewelambs out of triples or twins. Ewes have to be feed before breeding with high copper /zinc/salt mix Flushing with wild oats or oats, but not so barley or corn. Have three or four rams for breeding in the group.Much more lambs with several rams. If you have any questions, please let me know. If ever in Germany, go to the zoos and look at the Cameroun sheep they have, similar to the BB, less nervous and they multiply like rabbits. The American BB has much more Mufflon blood than what you see in Canada or in Europe as BB. The true african sheep type BB is extreme fertile, in my eyes the most fertile in the world. Best regards Helmut - Original Message - From: Crawford, Dr. Stephen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info; Nancy Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 7:44 AM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Number of lambs Nancy: I had had only one ewe in the past five years that gave birth to triplets. We are talking close to 75 lambings. Steve *** Dr. Stephen Crawford Director of Bands Percussion Studies University of Mary Hardin-Baylor 900 College St. Belton, TX 76513 PH: 254-295-4816 FAX: 254-295-4158 EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nancy Richardson Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 9:12 AM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: [blackbelly] Number of lambs Hello, can anyone tell me how common it is for a BB ewe to have triplets? Nancy ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellyshee p.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.23/243 - Release Date: 27/01/2006 ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Number of lambs
Because Hair sheep take same copper concentration as beef. They are different than wool sheep, need a different management.We run them as beef in same management. With best regards Helmut - Original Message - From: Julian Hale [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Number of lambs At 09:55 PM 1/30/2006, you wrote: It was my understanding that copper in excess of 18ppm was toxic, and often fatal to sheep. Am I mistaken in this? If so, what is the safe dosage? No, you're not mistaken... Helmut, why do you supplement copper? Did you maybe mean selenium? I know selenium definitely has an effect on fertility. Julian ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.24/244 - Release Date: 30/01/2006 ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Number of lambs
Three day's are very short time, did he send liver out for test ? See, it is like in regarding listerose or coccidiose, original african import are able to handle this, same as for virus disease, very resistant. Everone of us has a different type of sheep and I can only write about, what the sheep farmers do in our area.And they feed free choice kelp or salt with high copper level, especially when breeding. You have to find it out carefully. Here a mail I got this moring: I need some input on an article in the Stockman GrassFarmer. It is a page one story and I am sure some of you have read it. There is a fellow named Rick Calvo in Nebraska that raises cattle and hairsheep - mostly Katahdin. It seems he had a parasite problem when he moved his sheep from the Oklahoma ranch he bought them at to his place. Someone told him he had low copper in his soil. He then gave his 400 plus ewe flock a mineral mix high in copper and his problem was solved. I am not doubting this story BUT it flies in the face of everything I have ever learned about sheep and copper. Somebody please help explain this to me. - Original Message - From: Stephanie Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 12:04 AM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Number of lambs I can find no literature that differentiates between hair/wool sheep when it comes to copper ppm. Helmut, I feel you are very educated on sheep and have valued your opinion on many matters. If you have access to info on copper I'd love to read it. It would sure make it easier to feed everyone the same thing and quit trying to make sure that the sheep are seperated out!! I'd love to hear of other folks opinion. I DO know this.a friend of mine bought 6 HEALTHY american bb because they were cute and turned them in with her cattle where they had access to a cattle tub. 3 days later they were dead. And no, they were not overly stresses and yes they were eating and drinking. 180 ppm in the cattle tub. Just my observation Carol, surely you know something on this matter ;) Stephanie - Original Message - From: hlang [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Number of lambs Because Hair sheep take same copper concentration as beef. They are different than wool sheep, need a different management.We run them as beef in same management. With best regards Helmut - Original Message - From: Julian Hale [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Number of lambs At 09:55 PM 1/30/2006, you wrote: It was my understanding that copper in excess of 18ppm was toxic, and often fatal to sheep. Am I mistaken in this? If so, what is the safe dosage? No, you're not mistaken... Helmut, why do you supplement copper? Did you maybe mean selenium? I know selenium definitely has an effect on fertility. Julian ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.24/244 - Release Date: 30/01/2006 ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.24/244 - Release Date: 30/01/2006 ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Horn Genetics question
In beef and sheep, there are bulls and rams which are dominate polled.'You can use them on what ever kind of horned ewe or cow and never any horn for many generation. I work horned cows, up to 60 and use polled bulls, never one horn to see if selected. Same for SA ram import, on what ever Barbados or horned ewe I use, offspring polled. Because for many years and with big number of livestock, the selected.The genetics are clean and that kind of genetics is so powerful, that the horns are matched out. But in US hair sheep Dorper or what ever, the genepool is way too small. And instead to select first for healthy and strong animals, the genepool get cut down by funny regulations. Regards Helmut - Original Message - From: Carol J. Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Horn Genetics question Terry, the reason you can't find the genetic research is because it doesn't exist. I've talked to several sheep geneticists the past couple of years and learned that horn genetics are simply not understood and are not being well researched because there is no funding to do so. Therefore, it is our responsibility as breeders to keep excellent records, develop our own hypotheses, and test them as carefully as possible. The conclusions we derive will, in the absence of academic research, hopefully provide information that will be useful to others. Carol At 01:41 PM 1/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: It is stated that if a polled ewe has a horned sire, she is considered American Blackbelly. the question is this-- if the MATERNAL GRANDSIRE is horned, ( the sire is polled) what are the chances of passing that along? Some people would call it generation skipping I am thinking more along the lines-- are horn genetics like hemophilia? Passed through females only, so they can be passed on and not show for several breedings? or must a doubling up occur? I am not finding the kind of genetic research I am looking for on this!!! Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz T-shirts, mugs, caps, and more at the Barbados Blackbelly Online Store http://www.cafepress.com/blackbellysheep ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.19/231 - Release Date: 16/01/2006 ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Barbados
Thanks for information. I have been in contact with the breeders in Barbados for a while and friends of use went to visit. The problem I face, non is able to tell me how many fullblood B.Blackbelly are on the Island. Seems there is not too much left as true genetics. The have three types of sheep, in every flock is some of what ever kind. The only genetically well bred flock of Barbados Blackbelly as far as I know are in Cuba and in France, under INRA research. May try to find out how many fullblood Barbados Blackbelly do excist and where they are registered. With best regards Helmut - Original Message - From: David Kellough [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 11:12 AM Subject: [blackbelly] Barbados My wife and I are leaving for Barbados in the morning and will be there for a week. We hope to come across some sheep. We would be happy to share whatever pictures we take with all who wish to see them. David Susan Kellough Ohio ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/146 - Release Date: 21/10/2005 ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Website: Why You Should Oppose the USDA's Mandatory Property and Animal Surveillance Program
You think so ..The NAIS will drive small producers out of the market.the first which are going out here are today the large breeders. Small breeders have lower cost and can play, but the big guys are fed up. Domination, the clock is going back.Europeans left to American many years ago, because they have been dominated by the rulers, the Czars, Kaizars and all kind of Royalties. And the today rulers have the oil in their back and know how to have the rules to run the country regards Helmut - Original Message - From: Carol J. Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:12 AM Subject: [blackbelly] Website: Why You Should Oppose the USDA's Mandatory Property and Animal Surveillance Program Picked up from another email group, here is a worthwhile site and letter to read regarding the upcoming National Animal ID Program. http://poultrypress.com/hobby/ Below is one of the docs available to freely download on the site. In addition, the site has sample letters that you can send to your elected officials (you will need to make them applicable to sheep, not chickens). Form your own opinion and feel free to share that opinion on this listserv. ALL opinions are encouraged. A strong case can be made for the need to ensure the safety of the food chain in the U.S. by enforcing the NAID. An equally strong case can be made that the NAID violates our Constitutional rights, eliminates our privacy, and puts the U.S. government in our backyards and pastures. At this point, the NAID is inevitable; we never really did have a choice. But it is a good idea to remain informed about what you as an animal raiser will be required to do in the near future. This is a lengthy document; you can go to the above website to read it in its entirety. Why You Should Oppose the USDA's Mandatory Property and Animal Surveillance Program by Mary Zanoni, Ph.D. (Cornell), J.D. (Yale), Executive Director of Farm for LifeTM P.O. Box 501, Canton, New York 13617 Telephone: 315-265-2800 Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Poultry fanciers and keepers of small flocks are facing a grave threat from a proposed government intrusion into their innocent choice of pastimes and way of life. For several years, the USDA has been working with the largest-scale animal industry organizations (for example, the National Pork Producers, Monsanto Company, and Cargill Meat) to develop a mandatory National Animal Identification System (NAIS). However, most small scale livestock producers, people who raise animals for their own food, and people who keep horses or livestock as companion animals do not know about the USDA's plans. The NAIS will drive small producers out of the market, will make people abandon raising animals for their own food, will invade Americans' personal privacy to a degree never before tolerated, will violate the religious freedom of Americans whose beliefs make it impossible for them to comply, and will erase the last vestiges of animal welfare from the production of animal foods. The Problem On April 25, 2005, the USDA released Draft Program Standards (St.) and a Draft Strategic Plan (Plan) concerning the NAIS. If you think the description below sounds too bizarre to be true, please go to usda.gov/nais, read the Standards and Plan, and check the citations. By January 1, 2008, the NAIS will be mandatory. (Plan, pp. 2, 10, 17.) Every person who owns even one horse, cow, pig, chicken, sheep, pigeon, or virtually any livestock animal, will be forced to register their home, including owner's name, address, and telephone number, and keyed to Global Positioning System coordinates for satellite monitoring, in a giant federal database under a 7-digit premises ID number. (St., pp. 3-4, 10-12; Plan, p. 5.) Every animal will have to be assigned a 15-digit ID number, also to be kept in a giant federal database. The form of ID will most likely be a tag or microchip containing a Radio Frequency Identification Device, designed to be read from a distance. (Plan, p. 10; St., pp. 6, 12, 20, 27-28.) The plan may also include collecting the DNA of every animal and/or a retinal scan of every animal. (Plan, p.13.) The owner will be required to report: the birthdate of an animal, the application of every animal's ID tag, every time an animal leaves or enters the property, every time an animal loses a tag, every time a tag is replaced, the slaughter or death of an animal, or if any animal is missing. Such events must be reported within 24 hours. (St., pp. 12-13, 17-21.) Third parties, such as veterinarians, will be required to report sightings of animals. (St., p. 25.) In other words, if you call a vet to your property to treat your horse, cow, or any other animal, and the vet finds any animal without the mandatory 15-digit computer-readable ID, the vet may be required to
Re: [blackbelly] Name and breed
MANX CATS don't know if some of you lived in Scandinavia. We have had in Smoland Sweden both type of cats,short tail and long tail, natural in the cat population, 50 :50 Don't know any are where the kind of cat did live as short tail only. Here in Canada sometimes a cat with short tail shows up, hybrids with Bobcats. May in the past there was a cat in Swede like the Bobcat in Canada, who knows. Dos anybody has information about that ? Regards Helmut - Original Message - From: Carol J. Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Name and breed At 11:13 AM 8/31/2005 -0400, you wrote: Color and markings classify mine as ABS. My polled ram is still an ABS though polled and unregisterable as such. If he consistently produces polled offspring he becomes an american BBS. http://www.sheep101.info/breedsA-B.html#Barbado http://www.sheep101.info/hair.html Someone needs to email Susan Shoenian and let her know the photo she's using at http://www.sheep101.info/breedsA-B.html#Barbado to portray an American Blackbelly is of an animal that could not be registered as an American Blackbelly because of the white on his body. BBSAI's American Blackbelly standard is at http://www.blackbellysheep.org/standards-AB.htm Just as with any breed of animal, what you call it will be based on your perception. If you are a long-time breeder who has selected and developed bloodlines of excellence, then what you are willing to call an American Blackbelly may be much more rigid than a registry's standards; you look at ancestry and genetics and less on the phenotype. Breeders working only to raising registerable stock will base their definition of what can be called an American Blackbelly only on breed standards and whether the animal can or cannot be registered. If you raise them primarily for pleasure, then your definition will likely be much broader and include traits that are not registerable. Here is a similar story but about Manx cats, not blackbelly sheep. For years, I have adopted tailless cats from my local animal shelter. There is a breed of tailless cats called Manx, so I refer to my cats as Manx cats. I was at a cat show one year and was talking to one of the breeders who was showing his cats. I mentioned that I had adopted several Manx cats and absolutely loved them. He looked positively askance and told me (with his nose slightly elevated) that I probably had crossbred cats that simply didn't have tails, but I most certainly didn't have MANX cats. I walked away thinking that he was a jerk and that my cats WERE TOO Manx cats and I'd call 'em that despite what he said. Based on my description of the three types of breeders above, I raise these cats primarily for pleasure and I am the bane of dedicated breeders who work hard to purify their bloodlines so that they breed true. (Manx cats are a genetic mutation; one can breed two Manx cats and get all lengths of tails. Breeders often destroy the longer tailed kittens at birth.) Does that mean I shouldn't call my cats Manx cats? Well, yes and no. It depends. If I was raising kittens to sell, then I probably would not want to imply that they were purebred and, depending on who I was talking to, I might not even want to call them Manx. But if I simply was trying to identify this unusual breed of cat to a visitor in my home, I would call them Manx. There is room for all three types of breeders of American Blackbelly sheep, and all three types will at some point be a sore spot with each other. Diana, I don't mean to offend, but when you are talking to breeders, I don't think you should be calling your sheep either American Blackbelly OR Barbados Blackbelly. They may look like BB, but they aren't. They may have Mouflon and Rambouillet in them, but they are not American Blackbelly if they don't have horns. You should wait for several generations of sheep in your flock, develop your bloodlines so that they consistently breed whichever sheep you want, and then and only then register them and market them as being whatever breed you chose. There is less room in the Barbados Blackbelly world for the looser definitions because our sheep are in peril genetically. Barbados Blackbelly are on the brink of being destroyed in the U.S. by careless identification and naming. But regardless of which sheep you raise, you absolutely MUST be up front about its genetics and pedigree if you sell animals to the public. And if the person you are selling to wants to become a truly dedicated breeder, then he has a lot at stake in what you tell him. Carol ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info -- No
[blackbelly] very parasite resistant wool breeds
Very parasite resistant sheep in wool are Baltic, Texel and Ile de France.There has been done an outstanding work over the last 40 years in selection. Ile de France with South African background is a very different breed than the IDF developped in France over the last 25 years. IDF out of SA has hoove as parasite problems. Texel from Holland are very weak and barn animals, where the Dutch Texel does not need drenching. Keeping Blackbellies /St Croix with Texel/ Ile de France, large flock, the hair sheep gone die over time if not drenched. We have seen that in big numbers and I needed years to accept it, as I was so much beliving in all the stories about how parasite resistant the hair sheep are. East Friesian are as well very parasite resistant and have similar meat as the Caribbean.German lines are not coldhardy nor parasite resistant, where Swiss and Swedish lines are top notch cold hardy and parasite resistant. Over the last 15 years many of the new breeds have been tested here at the ranch under solid conditions. What ever as Texel, East Friesian or Ile de France you find today in the US, went thru Canada. With years of embryo import, we learned which bloodlines do well and which don't. For example in the White Dorper.First import useless.Second import of embryos still not good. Than we learned where to go and for what bloodlines to select.Everything needs time and experience.The today bloodlines in the different new sheep, in sheep where other countries invested millions of dollars, are different than the first imports. And this is the problem in my eyes.First, the exporter sends you in the beginning the lower quality, as it has happend with the Dorper.Still today uselss Dorper are imported, sheep as seen advertised lately on the net:if they say they are going to be type 5 then they probably have bad feet - short jaw and will break in the shoulders at two years old. They will need shearing too look great on pictures , gone be paid in the 8000 .- $ range and completely useless for the future. The two problems we have is A) on our continent no money has been invested to improve sheep, Carol is an execption, she is fighting for a breed but no fundings from the Government. If Carol would live in France, she would get a 250 000.- $ a year to improve the BB as long as she can show the results. B) when we import genetics, the country of origin does not like to send the best. It needs lots of knowlegde and contact to get the right kind of genetics. If you for example import from Africa, go to the black people and avoid the white. Than you know what you get With best regards Helmut, African Tribal Sheep BC Canada - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 10:57 AM Subject: Re: Re: [blackbelly] breed standards The Barbados as the St Croix are much less parasite resistant than many wool breeds. Is this a typo? What wool breeds? ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/86 - Release Date: 31/08/2005 ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] what's in a blackbelly name? (was Sex Ed)
Science is learning that it is not accurate to take data gathered from American Blackbelly sheep concerning prolificacy, parasite and disease tolerance, size, and nutritional requirements and try to generalize it to the population of Barbados Blackbelly sheep or vice versa - Regarding the horned and polled BB, ewes with horns are much more parasite resistant and need less feed than the pollled. Reason is the large pool of genetics in horned BB. Polled are so small in numbers and extremely weak. And if you look at the Island of Barbdos, the sheep are declining in such a number, that they have already problems to keep the parasite resistance up.Second , in Barbados you have black and tan, white and mixed colours in one flock. Regards Helmut ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] why should people buy blackbellies instead of another breed of hair sheep?
It is the beauty of the sheep. Find an other sheep which is so elegant and well coloured. And it is unfair to compare the BB with offshore wool breeds, breeds where millions of $ have been invested , large genetic pools to work with. I would promote the American Blackbelly in a way as Lagerfeld does with his girls. Regards Helmut - Original Message - From: Carol J. Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 3:51 PM Subject: [blackbelly] why should people buy blackbellies instead of another breed of hair sheep? Hi folks! I've been asked to speak at the 2005 North American Hair Sheep Symposium to be held in San Angelo, Texas October 6-8. (see http://agnews.tamu.edu/dailynews/stories/ANSC/Jun0905a.htm and http://sanangelo.tamu.edu/NorthAmericanHairSheepSymposiumBrochure.pdf The event targets first-time hair sheep breeders and is expected to draw 500-600 people (at $150 each!). Those folks really want to be there and they really want to hear what I plan to tell them. My talk will be in sequence with talks given by reps from the St. Croix, Katahdin, Dorper, and Royal White breeds. My aim is not to compete with these breeds, but to demonstrate the niche that is unique to blackbelly sheep and how to fill it. I would be interested in hearing from you, whether in open discussion on this list or privately, so that I can incorporate your much broader perspective in my talk. I will be representing both blackbelly breeds, American and Barbados, but because the symposium will be in Texas, I suspect that most people will be interested in American Blackbellies. All the more reason I need to hear from you, since I am a Barbados Blackbelly breeder. I wrote the current brochure used by the BBSAI to promote the breeds. I know all of the selling points. I can talk about disease resistance, parasite tolerance, hardiness, prolificacy, and ease of care. But those things will be what the other breeds will promote as well, and I'd like the blackbellies to stand out as the unique breed they are. The audience is already sold on hair sheep; I want to sell them on blackbellies. And I want to sell them on more than just our good looks! Why did you choose blackbellies instead of one of the other hair breeds? What sold you on blackbellies? Are you making any money from them? What good are they? If you raise or have raised other breeds of hair sheep, how would you compare the blackbelly to them? Good features? Bad features? If you sell to a trophy market, how is that working for you? What do you have to do? If you sell to a meat market, how is that working for you? Do you sell to any of these or other markets? Pet/Exotic/Zoo/Breeder/Byproducts/Stock Dog Training What other questions would you want to ask me if you were sitting in the audience listening to all of us tout our breeds of sheep? Thanks in advance for any help you can give. I'm hoping that any discussion occurring on this list can be beneficial to all of us by helping us to better market our sheep. So please don't be shy--chime in! Carol Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz T-shirts, mugs, caps, and more at the Barbados Blackbelly Online Store http://www.cafepress.com/blackbellysheep ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 22/07/2005 ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Re: Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info Digest, Vol 1, Issue 161
It is a two months pain for the animal.Best you ask your vet about. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 11:24 AM Subject: [blackbelly] Re: Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info Digest, Vol 1,Issue 161 I also have a question regarding castration. I have 3 2+ year old rams. I am interested in only one being the sire. Is it too late for castration on the others? I appreciate then help Jim Fallis Palmer, Texas ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 04/06/2005 ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Question about banding ram lambs in later stagesof growth
5% or less of the older rams have a bad smell.We don't do any castrating. I butchered hundreds in age 4 to 5 and the only thing important, cut the fat of the meat.I get for older ram hindquarter and back 12.90 a kg , not bad and never had a complain. Regards Helmut - Original Message - From: Diane Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Question about banding ram lambs in later stagesof growth I've seen PHOTOS of cattle type banders...never have seen one in real life. My understanding is they use a strip of rubber-band material and the applicator applies a 'staple' sort of thing making the strip a circular band. The band is in essence custom made on the animal as it is applied. Links to different brands http://www.nobull.net/bander/SBhowtouse.html http://www.castrator.com/how_to_castration.htm I see this second one uses a band, but staples it, custom fitting it as well. They're pricey!! Lucky you have a friend with one! I think it'd be better than having the vet cut them. I recently had the vet do a mature ram... he is a good herder, so I wanted to keep him. I drove him to the vet everything, so that he could have a 'real' surgical type procedure. Not sure what he got, but he was a bloody mess (literally) when I went to pick him up. Seemed no different than the ram I'd had cut at my barn... almost cruel. Maybe I'm insane, but it seems that banding is not as bad as cutting. If I'd had a friend with a cattle bander, I definately would've gone that route. Your mission is to be the guinea pig stock-owner tell us how it worked from your vantage point. We're counting on you. ;-) Diane ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.2 - Release Date: 03/06/2005 ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] sheep-handling equipment
I know of breeders here in the area, they didn't trim a hooves of a BB in six years, similar to Suffolk sheep. It would be interesting to find breeders who have genetics with hard and slow growing hooves ? regards Helmut - Original Message - From: Carol J. Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 6:06 PM Subject: [blackbelly] sheep-handling equipment I am getting ready to build a sheep handling facility inside my corral. The goal is to be able to move the sheep into a headgate or other contraption so that I can 1) trim hooves without bending over; and 2) load sheep into a pickup if necessary. I'm looking for ideas. At the BBSAI workshop last year, I was very impressed with the headgate sold by D-S Livestock Equipment at http://dslivestock.biz/systemcomponents.html (but will need to mortgage my house to afford it!). How do those of you who DO trim hooves handle things? I no longer can bend over to do this, and I work single-handedly. Carol Carol Elkins Critterhaven Estate Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz T-shirts, mugs, caps, and more at the Barbados Blackbelly Online Store http://www.cafepress.com/blackbellysheep ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 - Release Date: 17/05/2005 ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
[blackbelly] dorper
Dorper get very easy prolabs/diarrhea when fed with grain in springtime. But it depends on bloodlines. White Dorper with red spots on the back don't have any prolabs problems and handle grain well. Regards Helmut - Original Message - From: "Rick Krach" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 8:44 PM Subject: [blackbelly] salt I sold an American Blackbelly ram lamb today (thanks Howard) and would like to share the reason for it: The person who got it needed to restart his flock. Over a couple of years he had lost the whole thing, more than a dozen sheep, because of unknowingly giving them salt licks with copper. I know that most members are very aware of this, but perhaps there are some new faces out there who might not have heard this yet. One can never "trust" everyone in a feed store! Secondly, a piece of info to the blackbelly people: I somehow got into the habit of giving my sheep this spring a grain mixture which was almost 75% corn. I should have remembered someone saying last year that too much corn can give the sheep diarrhea. Well, the only ewe that got diarrhea this week, possibly, from that over-corn-feeding was a white Dorper St. Croix mix! All the blackbellies are dry at least so far. So, one more positive for the breed. Rick Krach Auburn, California (530) 889-1488 ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.0 - Release Date: 29/04/2005 ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] dorper
If you deworm and they are not too many sheep dense together, no problem. And it depends very much the bloodlines. Helmut - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] dorper I have dorper/katahdins mixes and black belly sheep. In the summer I feed 100% whole corn, in the winter 75% corn and 25% sheep pellets. I have never had any problem with feeding corn to the sheep. I think the main problem is giving them something they are not used to in large quantities that would cause diarrhea. ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.0 - Release Date: 29/04/2005 ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
