Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 11, Issue 44
Copper sulfate. Copper poisoning is the (main) reason you need sheep-specific feed versus goat or poultry feed. I know several folks who have run sheep and cattle together...and lost sheep because they got after a cattle mineral lick that had copper of some kind. On Aug 21, 2015, at 23:53, Rick Krach rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote: Liz, look at this label and tell me if you see anything that sheep should not eat: Fish meal, plant protein products, animal protein products, dried yeast culture, fish oil, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, riboflavin supplement, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, vitamin B12 supplement, choline chloride, d-biotin, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin E supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), folic acid, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, manganous sulfate, potassium iodate, ethylenediamine dihydrodide, ascorbic acid, Not for Human Consumption. Meets FDA requirements regarding restrictions on mammalian protein sources. Thanks, Rick Krach in Auburn, CA From: Elizabeth Radi To: Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Koi food Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Rick, I personally would not feed Koi food to my sheep. Folks got into allot of trouble feeding ruminants animal parts in the past. It probably is illegal also. Think of Mad Cow. I would think it would be ok to feed to chickens, because they eat just about anything. Also, the protein content would be pretty high I would imagine. I really do not think that fish food would be plant based, but mostly animal or fish source. Just some rambling thoughts. Liz Radi Nubian goats Nunn, Colorado --- rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Rick Krach To: blackbelly Blackbelly List Subject: [Blackbelly] Koi food Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 21:06:35 -0700 I know that pig food cannot be given to sheep, but I wonder about Koi food. ?Someone has given me 50 lbs of Koi food which their fish will not eat. ?Does anyone have any idea as to whether it'd be safe to give this to my sheep, chickens, pigs, whoever would eat it? ?My question is because the package does say, Not for human consumption. ?Thanks, Rick Krach in Auburn, CA? ___ ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 11, Issue 44
Liz, look at this label and tell me if you see anything that sheep should not eat: Fish meal, plant protein products, animal protein products, dried yeast culture, fish oil, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, riboflavin supplement, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, vitamin B12 supplement, choline chloride, d-biotin, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin E supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), folic acid, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, manganous sulfate, potassium iodate, ethylenediamine dihydrodide, ascorbic acid, Not for Human Consumption. Meets FDA requirements regarding restrictions on mammalian protein sources. Thanks, Rick Krach in Auburn, CA From: Elizabeth Radi To: Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Koi food Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Rick, I personally would not feed Koi food to my sheep. Folks got into allot of trouble feeding ruminants animal parts in the past. It probably is illegal also. Think of Mad Cow. I would think it would be ok to feed to chickens, because they eat just about anything. Also, the protein content would be pretty high I would imagine. I really do not think that fish food would be plant based, but mostly animal or fish source. Just some rambling thoughts. Liz Radi Nubian goats Nunn, Colorado --- rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Rick Krach To: blackbelly Blackbelly List Subject: [Blackbelly] Koi food Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 21:06:35 -0700 I know that pig food cannot be given to sheep, but I wonder about Koi food. ?Someone has given me 50 lbs of Koi food which their fish will not eat. ?Does anyone have any idea as to whether it'd be safe to give this to my sheep, chickens, pigs, whoever would eat it? ?My question is because the package does say, Not for human consumption. ?Thanks, Rick Krach in Auburn, CA? ___ ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 11, Issue 44
I would agree that feeding any grain supplemented with copper is a bad idea. I am also hesitant to feed fish meal which is a animal protein to sheep. Although I do not know of any prion disease or such that would transfer from aquatic to ruminant livestock. Copper is essential though to livestock. Environment is part of the equation in how much copper is metabolized by sheep. Also, the breed of sheep determines the sensitivity level to copper. IN MY OPERATION I feed a cattle mineral block with copper along with a plain white salt block to my Barbados Blackbelly sheep. I also dose my sheep with a 10% copper sulfate solution at 1cc per every 10 pounds of body weight along with either Cydectin, Safeguard, Valbazin or Prohibit. The addition of the copper sulfate solution with the de-wormers makes them more effective. And it is unlikely that parasites can build a resistance to copper. I have been doing this for 15 years and have yet to lose a sheep to copper poisoning. I also put a very small dose (less than a teaspoon) of copper sulfate crystals into 30 gallon poly tubs of drinking water for the sheep. This keeps algae out of the water and stops mosquito larvae from hatching. It will not kill any larvae that is pre-existing in the water. I top off the tubs with water along with the rain until I start seeing algae or mosquito larvae and then repeat the process. Water has been precious here and I cannot be dumping it out several times per week. This is what I do. It is up to you to test and evaluate what is effective in your operation. Mark Wintermute -Original Message- From: Blackbelly [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of Jim Isbell Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 12:01 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 11, Issue 44 Copper sulfate. Copper poisoning is the (main) reason you need sheep-specific feed versus goat or poultry feed. I know several folks who have run sheep and cattle together...and lost sheep because they got after a cattle mineral lick that had copper of some kind. On Aug 21, 2015, at 23:53, Rick Krach rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote: Liz, look at this label and tell me if you see anything that sheep should not eat: Fish meal, plant protein products, animal protein products, dried yeast culture, fish oil, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, riboflavin supplement, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, vitamin B12 supplement, choline chloride, d-biotin, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin E supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), folic acid, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, manganous sulfate, potassium iodate, ethylenediamine dihydrodide, ascorbic acid, Not for Human Consumption. Meets FDA requirements regarding restrictions on mammalian protein sources. Thanks, Rick Krach in Auburn, CA From: Elizabeth Radi To: Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Koi food Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Rick, I personally would not feed Koi food to my sheep. Folks got into allot of trouble feeding ruminants animal parts in the past. It probably is illegal also. Think of Mad Cow. I would think it would be ok to feed to chickens, because they eat just about anything. Also, the protein content would be pretty high I would imagine. I really do not think that fish food would be plant based, but mostly animal or fish source. Just some rambling thoughts. Liz Radi Nubian goats Nunn, Colorado --- rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Rick Krach To: blackbelly Blackbelly List Subject: [Blackbelly] Koi food Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 21:06:35 -0700 I know that pig food cannot be given to sheep, but I wonder about Koi food. ?Someone has given me 50 lbs of Koi food which their fish will not eat. ?Does anyone have any idea as to whether it'd be safe to give this to my sheep, chickens, pigs, whoever would eat it? ?My question is because the package does say, Not for human consumption. ?Thanks, Rick Krach in Auburn, CA? ___ ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6086 / Virus Database: 4409/10493 - Release Date: 08/23/15 ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 11, Issue 44
I really would consult with your veterinarian if you would go the route of Mark. One way to tell if your sheep are deficient, is if one dies, or when butchering, have the liver checked. Liz Radi Nubian goats Nunn, Colorado --- winterm...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Mark Wintermute winterm...@earthlink.net To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 11, Issue 44 Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 14:51:21 -0500 I would agree that feeding any grain supplemented with copper is a bad idea. I am also hesitant to feed fish meal which is a animal protein to sheep. Although I do not know of any prion disease or such that would transfer from aquatic to ruminant livestock. Copper is essential though to livestock. Environment is part of the equation in how much copper is metabolized by sheep. Also, the breed of sheep determines the sensitivity level to copper. IN MY OPERATION I feed a cattle mineral block with copper along with a plain white salt block to my Barbados Blackbelly sheep. I also dose my sheep with a 10% copper sulfate solution at 1cc per every 10 pounds of body weight along with either Cydectin, Safeguard, Valbazin or Prohibit. The addition of the copper sulfate solution with the de-wormers makes them more effective. And it is unlikely that parasites can build a resistance to copper. I have been doing this for 15 years and have yet to lose a sheep to copper poisoning. I also put a very small dose (less than a teaspoon) of copper sulfate crystals into 30 gallon poly tubs of drinking water for the sheep. This keeps algae out of the water and stops mosquito larvae from hatching. It will not kill any larvae that is pre-existing in the water. I top off the tubs with water along with the rain until I start seeing algae or mosquito larvae and then repeat the process. Water has been precious here and I cannot be dumping it out several times per week. This is what I do. It is up to you to test and evaluate what is effective in your operation. Mark Wintermute -Original Message- From: Blackbelly [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of Jim Isbell Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 12:01 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 11, Issue 44 Copper sulfate. Copper poisoning is the (main) reason you need sheep-specific feed versus goat or poultry feed. I know several folks who have run sheep and cattle together...and lost sheep because they got after a cattle mineral lick that had copper of some kind. On Aug 21, 2015, at 23:53, Rick Krach rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote: Liz, look at this label and tell me if you see anything that sheep should not eat: Fish meal, plant protein products, animal protein products, dried yeast culture, fish oil, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, riboflavin supplement, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, vitamin B12 supplement, choline chloride, d-biotin, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin E supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), folic acid, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, manganous sulfate, potassium iodate, ethylenediamine dihydrodide, ascorbic acid, Not for Human Consumption. Meets FDA requirements regarding restrictions on mammalian protein sources. Thanks, Rick Krach in Auburn, CA From: Elizabeth Radi To: Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Koi food Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Rick, I personally would not feed Koi food to my sheep. Folks got into allot of trouble feeding ruminants animal parts in the past. It probably is illegal also. Think of Mad Cow. I would think it would be ok to feed to chickens, because they eat just about anything. Also, the protein content would be pretty high I would imagine. I really do not think that fish food would be plant based, but mostly animal or fish source. Just some rambling thoughts. Liz Radi Nubian goats Nunn, Colorado --- rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Rick Krach To: blackbelly Blackbelly List Subject: [Blackbelly] Koi food Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 21:06:35 -0700 I know that pig food cannot be given to sheep, but I wonder about Koi food. ?Someone has given me 50 lbs of Koi food which their fish will not eat. ?Does anyone have any idea as to whether it'd be safe to give this to my sheep, chickens, pigs, whoever would eat it? ?My question is because the package does say, Not for human consumption. ?Thanks, Rick Krach in Auburn, CA? ___ ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info - No virus
Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 11, Issue 44
Rick, Rick Rick, the animal and fish proteins raise the flag for me. Sheep are herbivores. My feeling is if they have good pasture and hay/alfalfa, they should not even need the grain supplements. I do believe in a good SHEEP mineral for your area though. They should have a plant/forage based diet in my opinion. Also you have to worry about the copper content. I don't know what the FDA mammalian means, I have never seen that. And some poor people, and elderly have had to resort to eating cat food(canned) due to $$. I saw this on a program somewhere. Which is so troubling to me. I usually never take anything free as it usually costs too much.(ie dead sheep) I tell this to the telemarketers anyway. If you have a grain/feed elevator near you, they might have a animal nutritionist on staff that could answer your questions. I would doubt that they would endorse feeding your sheep fish food. Liz Radi Nubian goats Nunn, Colorado --- rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Rick Krach rickkr...@hotmail.com To: blackbelly Blackbelly List blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 11, Issue 44 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 21:53:33 -0700 Liz, look at this label and tell me if you see anything that sheep should not eat: Fish meal, plant protein products, animal protein products, dried yeast culture, fish oil, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, riboflavin supplement, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, vitamin B12 supplement, choline chloride, d-biotin, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin E supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), folic acid, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, manganous sulfate, potassium iodate, ethylenediamine dihydrodide, ascorbic acid, Not for Human Consumption. Meets FDA requirements regarding restrictions on mammalian protein sources. Thanks, Rick Krach in Auburn, CA From: Elizabeth Radi To: Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Koi food Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Rick, I personally would not feed Koi food to my sheep. Folks got into allot of trouble feeding ruminants animal parts in the past. It probably is illegal also. Think of Mad Cow. I would think it would be ok to feed to chickens, because they eat just about anything. Also, the protein content would be pretty high I would imagine. I really do not think that fish food would be plant based, but mostly animal or fish source. Just some rambling thoughts. Liz Radi Nubian goats Nunn, Colorado --- rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Rick Krach To: blackbelly Blackbelly List Subject: [Blackbelly] Koi food Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 21:06:35 -0700 I know that pig food cannot be given to sheep, but I wonder about Koi food. ?Someone has given me 50 lbs of Koi food which their fish will not eat. ?Does anyone have any idea as to whether it'd be safe to give this to my sheep, chickens, pigs, whoever would eat it? ?My question is because the package does say, Not for human consumption. ?Thanks, Rick Krach in Auburn, CA? ___ ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 11, Issue 44
My sheep are very robust and healthy. They are not deficient in copper or any other mineral. I eat my sheep and all livers are perfect. My lambs are born in April and May and raised on pasture. We do not feed grain to our sheep. Parasites thrive with moisture and heat. Lambs do not acquire natural immunity to parasites until they are four months old. So to raise lambs during the months May - September requires timely treatment for parasites. There has been much research involved with copper that has included veterinarians. Copper sulfate was used to de-worm sheep before the modern de-wormers came along. The biggest advances today are scales and accurate dosages compared to the old timers usage of copper sulfate. We have raised over 2000 lambs now with success. There are risks with copper sulfate with sheep. It is important to know if your environment is copper rich or poor. For example: Purina has a molasses protein tub marketed towards both cattle and sheep that contains copper. Many feeds as mentioned have copper added to them. Forage also has copper levels. You must know all the sources your sheep are getting copper from. The message I am making is sheep need less copper than other livestock but it is still essential to their health. A sheep does not need to be deficient in copper to benefit from copper. Because of the unknown variances in environment the standard position is sheep should avoid all copper. So get informed about your environment and the copper levels in your sheep and make an informed decision. The liver of a sick sheep will be depleted of copper. The liver of a copper poisoned sheep will have an abundance of copper. A sheep that is not sick or poisoned and is representative of the entire flock is the best candidate to have a liver checked for copper levels. For liability reasons I would expect veterinarians not to recommend copper sulfate usage. In this era of litigation they really have no option. It is also the reason I will close this post with the statement use copper sulfate at your own risk. Mark Wintermute -Original Message- From: Blackbelly [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Radi Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 6:11 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 11, Issue 44 I really would consult with your veterinarian if you would go the route of Mark. One way to tell if your sheep are deficient, is if one dies, or when butchering, have the liver checked. Liz Radi Nubian goats Nunn, Colorado --- winterm...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Mark Wintermute winterm...@earthlink.net To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 11, Issue 44 Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 14:51:21 -0500 I would agree that feeding any grain supplemented with copper is a bad idea. I am also hesitant to feed fish meal which is a animal protein to sheep. Although I do not know of any prion disease or such that would transfer from aquatic to ruminant livestock. Copper is essential though to livestock. Environment is part of the equation in how much copper is metabolized by sheep. Also, the breed of sheep determines the sensitivity level to copper. IN MY OPERATION I feed a cattle mineral block with copper along with a plain white salt block to my Barbados Blackbelly sheep. I also dose my sheep with a 10% copper sulfate solution at 1cc per every 10 pounds of body weight along with either Cydectin, Safeguard, Valbazin or Prohibit. The addition of the copper sulfate solution with the de-wormers makes them more effective. And it is unlikely that parasites can build a resistance to copper. I have been doing this for 15 years and have yet to lose a sheep to copper poisoning. I also put a very small dose (less than a teaspoon) of copper sulfate crystals into 30 gallon poly tubs of drinking water for the sheep. This keeps algae out of the water and stops mosquito larvae from hatching. It will not kill any larvae that is pre-existing in the water. I top off the tubs with water along with the rain until I start seeing algae or mosquito larvae and then repeat the process. Water has been precious here and I cannot be dumping it out several times per week. This is what I do. It is up to you to test and evaluate what is effective in your operation. Mark Wintermute -Original Message- From: Blackbelly [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of Jim Isbell Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 12:01 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 11, Issue 44 Copper sulfate. Copper poisoning is the (main) reason you need sheep-specific feed versus goat or poultry feed. I know several folks who have run sheep and cattle together...and lost sheep because they got after a cattle mineral lick that had copper of some kind
