Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
I have had our 5-month old pup for a couple of weeks now, he's 50% Abkash and the rest Pyrenees and Anatolian. His name is Grover. Sheila the Aussie and he, do not get along, Sheila wonders why she has to share us, and scolds him sometimes. Mostly. She ignores him barking at her. But last night they were a great team. Woken up at 2 am to Grover going ballistic. Since he's been here, for a pup, he's remarkably not barking and whining all night, so I went out. They were, whether they knew it or not, working as a team. The entire group of 12 or so goats and sheep were hiding in a chevron formation behind Grover, back at the corral. Sheila was out at the fence line barking at something that had apparently, just gotten away. Thanks for all the support and encouragement. -MIchael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies Sent from my iPad On May 12, 2014, at 11:55 AM, Steve st...@ninemilesheep.com wrote: Hi All, I have also heard that Llamas and burros make great flock guards. I luckily dont have any problems here in the desert, but if I did, I'd go with LGDs. Brenda Negri out of Winnemucca, NV breeds and raises some great LGDs. I have stopped by her place and talked with her. She raises her dogs in a social setting with sheep, miniature cows, and her other dogs. She would be a great source for dogs that would be stout enough for even the bigger coyotes in the east. Her website is: http://lgdnevada.com/ Steve www.ninemilesheep.com On 5/11/2014 6:00 AM, Elizabeth Radi wrote: Michael. we have a male and a female team. The female is spayed, and the male is whole, but he is not used for breeding, although many have asked to use him. We got him at 8 months old, and he would not go into buildings or vehicles, that is why he was not neutered. He was raised with alpacas, and his parents showed him the ropes, they were good dogs. These LGD mature around 2 years old. I would not trust them with babies until after that time. And they know what they are supposed to do. Just because a LGD is a guardian breed, does not mean that it will be a good guard dog. Just like, a female has a uterus, does not mean she will automatically be a good mother. Liz Radi Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep Nunn, Colorado 970-716-7218 idaralpaca.blogspot.com --- winterm...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Mark Wintermute winterm...@earthlink.net To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 15:56:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas starting to look into LGDs locally. I'll try googling on the subject regarding the dogs themselves, but there are some AB-BB questions related to dogs I'd like to ask: male or female dog? does it matter? at what weight/age are the AB-BB lambs, that they are less likely to get played with and accidentally killed? at what age are the dogs when they are less likely to accidentally kill a AB-BB lamb? since we only breed once a year--in this case, once in 3 years-- and only two or three ewes at a time, we don't have a bunch of spare lambs around to spend allowing a puppy to figure things out. -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
IMO you are always best with a puppy especially if you already have a guardian to help teach the pup its job. Jann Sent from my iPhone On May 11, 2014, at 10:44 PM, Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com wrote: This feedback is all very interesting. We went to go look at a litter of 75% Pyrenees and some percentage of Anatoli (dad was some form of mix, but mostly Anatoli) . My first exposure to LGDs. I liked the Pyrenees mom quite a bit. She was great. Loved her barking at raptors. Very keen on her surroundings. I do have a strange situation to try to dovetail a new dog into : my Aussie shepherd that has been trained to not herd, but to protect. She's actually quite good at it. So, question is, what dog do I put her in with: 8-week old LGD puppy? Or a mature LGD to try to mix in with her? Worried that the mature dog will not be bonded or won't bond with my animals. -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies Sent from my iPad On May 11, 2014, at 6:00 AM, Elizabeth Radi lizr...@skybeam.com wrote: Michael. we have a male and a female team. The female is spayed, and the male is whole, but he is not used for breeding, although many have asked to use him. We got him at 8 months old, and he would not go into buildings or vehicles, that is why he was not neutered. He was raised with alpacas, and his parents showed him the ropes, they were good dogs. These LGD mature around 2 years old. I would not trust them with babies until after that time. And they know what they are supposed to do. Just because a LGD is a guardian breed, does not mean that it will be a good guard dog. Just like, a female has a uterus, does not mean she will automatically be a good mother. Liz Radi Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep Nunn, Colorado 970-716-7218 idaralpaca.blogspot.com --- winterm...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Mark Wintermute winterm...@earthlink.net To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 15:56:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas starting to look into LGDs locally. I'll try googling on the subject regarding the dogs themselves, but there are some AB-BB questions related to dogs I'd like to ask: male or female dog? does it matter? at what weight/age are the AB-BB lambs, that they are less likely to get played with and accidentally killed? at what age are the dogs when they are less likely to accidentally kill a AB-BB lamb? since we only breed once a year--in this case, once in 3 years-- and only two or three ewes at a time, we don't have a bunch of spare lambs around to spend allowing a puppy to figure things out. -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
Hi All, I have also heard that Llamas and burros make great flock guards. I luckily dont have any problems here in the desert, but if I did, I'd go with LGDs. Brenda Negri out of Winnemucca, NV breeds and raises some great LGDs. I have stopped by her place and talked with her. She raises her dogs in a social setting with sheep, miniature cows, and her other dogs. She would be a great source for dogs that would be stout enough for even the bigger coyotes in the east. Her website is: http://lgdnevada.com/ Steve www.ninemilesheep.com On 5/11/2014 6:00 AM, Elizabeth Radi wrote: Michael. we have a male and a female team. The female is spayed, and the male is whole, but he is not used for breeding, although many have asked to use him. We got him at 8 months old, and he would not go into buildings or vehicles, that is why he was not neutered. He was raised with alpacas, and his parents showed him the ropes, they were good dogs. These LGD mature around 2 years old. I would not trust them with babies until after that time. And they know what they are supposed to do. Just because a LGD is a guardian breed, does not mean that it will be a good guard dog. Just like, a female has a uterus, does not mean she will automatically be a good mother. Liz Radi Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep Nunn, Colorado 970-716-7218 idaralpaca.blogspot.com --- winterm...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Mark Wintermute winterm...@earthlink.net To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 15:56:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas starting to look into LGDs locally. I'll try googling on the subject regarding the dogs themselves, but there are some AB-BB questions related to dogs I'd like to ask: male or female dog? does it matter? at what weight/age are the AB-BB lambs, that they are less likely to get played with and accidentally killed? at what age are the dogs when they are less likely to accidentally kill a AB-BB lamb? since we only breed once a year--in this case, once in 3 years-- and only two or three ewes at a time, we don't have a bunch of spare lambs around to spend allowing a puppy to figure things out. -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
Michael. we have a male and a female team. The female is spayed, and the male is whole, but he is not used for breeding, although many have asked to use him. We got him at 8 months old, and he would not go into buildings or vehicles, that is why he was not neutered. He was raised with alpacas, and his parents showed him the ropes, they were good dogs. These LGD mature around 2 years old. I would not trust them with babies until after that time. And they know what they are supposed to do. Just because a LGD is a guardian breed, does not mean that it will be a good guard dog. Just like, a female has a uterus, does not mean she will automatically be a good mother. Liz Radi Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep Nunn, Colorado 970-716-7218 idaralpaca.blogspot.com --- winterm...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Mark Wintermute winterm...@earthlink.net To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 15:56:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas starting to look into LGDs locally. I'll try googling on the subject regarding the dogs themselves, but there are some AB-BB questions related to dogs I'd like to ask: male or female dog? does it matter? at what weight/age are the AB-BB lambs, that they are less likely to get played with and accidentally killed? at what age are the dogs when they are less likely to accidentally kill a AB-BB lamb? since we only breed once a year--in this case, once in 3 years-- and only two or three ewes at a time, we don't have a bunch of spare lambs around to spend allowing a puppy to figure things out. -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
This feedback is all very interesting. We went to go look at a litter of 75% Pyrenees and some percentage of Anatoli (dad was some form of mix, but mostly Anatoli) . My first exposure to LGDs. I liked the Pyrenees mom quite a bit. She was great. Loved her barking at raptors. Very keen on her surroundings. I do have a strange situation to try to dovetail a new dog into : my Aussie shepherd that has been trained to not herd, but to protect. She's actually quite good at it. So, question is, what dog do I put her in with: 8-week old LGD puppy? Or a mature LGD to try to mix in with her? Worried that the mature dog will not be bonded or won't bond with my animals. -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies Sent from my iPad On May 11, 2014, at 6:00 AM, Elizabeth Radi lizr...@skybeam.com wrote: Michael. we have a male and a female team. The female is spayed, and the male is whole, but he is not used for breeding, although many have asked to use him. We got him at 8 months old, and he would not go into buildings or vehicles, that is why he was not neutered. He was raised with alpacas, and his parents showed him the ropes, they were good dogs. These LGD mature around 2 years old. I would not trust them with babies until after that time. And they know what they are supposed to do. Just because a LGD is a guardian breed, does not mean that it will be a good guard dog. Just like, a female has a uterus, does not mean she will automatically be a good mother. Liz Radi Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep Nunn, Colorado 970-716-7218 idaralpaca.blogspot.com --- winterm...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Mark Wintermute winterm...@earthlink.net To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 15:56:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas starting to look into LGDs locally. I'll try googling on the subject regarding the dogs themselves, but there are some AB-BB questions related to dogs I'd like to ask: male or female dog? does it matter? at what weight/age are the AB-BB lambs, that they are less likely to get played with and accidentally killed? at what age are the dogs when they are less likely to accidentally kill a AB-BB lamb? since we only breed once a year--in this case, once in 3 years-- and only two or three ewes at a time, we don't have a bunch of spare lambs around to spend allowing a puppy to figure things out. -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
Not a fencing idea, just a story. We have lived in Colorado for 5 years now. We raise sheep and dairy goats. In the fall, the antelope congregate in our back property for breeding season. A few come back in the spring and have their babies a couple hundred feet outside our fence. They pay no mind to the LGDs that we have. And when the young coyotes are in training, they are very vocal, the dogs bark allot. Well anyway, back to the antelope. I commented to a local rancher about the crazy antelope having their babies here with our dogs barking at times. He told me that the antelope are using the dogs as a warning when danger is near.The light bulb went on for me then and there. They feel safe by the dogs. We have two LGD's, not counting my little weenie dog. They watch each others back. The Great pyr is the guardian and stays with the sheep at night, while his pyr/Anatolian partner is in the search and destroy mode at night. Liz Radi Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep Nunn, Colorado 970-716-7218 idaralpaca.blogspot.com ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
starting to look into LGDs locally. I'll try googling on the subject regarding the dogs themselves, but there are some AB-BB questions related to dogs I'd like to ask: male or female dog? does it matter? at what weight/age are the AB-BB lambs, that they are less likely to get played with and accidentally killed? at what age are the dogs when they are less likely to accidentally kill a AB-BB lamb? since we only breed once a year--in this case, once in 3 years-- and only two or three ewes at a time, we don't have a bunch of spare lambs around to spend allowing a puppy to figure things out. -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com wrote: This is all great feedback on the LGDs thanks, folks. Mark I am sorry I am not closer. Would love to buy a pup. Here they cost about $500. (Not sure how much you get, though;-P Carol your minimalist barkers sound like my Aussie Sheila. She's fine in my book. What she does not do is just go on a 1-hour 2am lonesome barking jag that does not stop. I would not be able to deal with that, even with earplugs, which I do use. For her, there's always at least a reason in her mind to bark. Sometimes she joins in on the local dog chorus of full moon baying and if I don't like it I let her know and she's pretty good about stopping. When I saw her growl and chase away that full grown coyote the second night, I realized what a fool I had been to take her to the next pasture while two perfectly safe ewes, in a closed paddock, had lambs. Why I was so concerned about their stress levels is beyond me. Now I know the reason the last attackers last year never came back was soley because of Sheila being in there all last year. Not a bad use for an untrained herder. -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies Sent from my iPad On May 9, 2014, at 4:30 PM, Carol Elkins celk...@critterhaven.biz wrote: Michael, Most LGDs believe that a good offense is the best defense and will network with the entire neighborhood to keep current on the state of affairs. Networking in this sense is barking. And LGDs need to bark long before there is a problem to ensure that whatever is out there doesn't become a problem. In my experience, there are over-barky LGDs, but I have found that my minimalist LGDs still bark at things that I don't perceive as problems. Like you, my farm was victim to a combined cougar/coyote attack that killed and consumed 5 90-lb lambs. I lived under siege until I could purchase my LGDs. They were 6 months old when they arrived (they don't become adults until they are 2 years old), but they had their adult bark. That bark is what I have relied on ever since they arrived in 2008 to keep my farm safe. Yes, it can be really annoying at times (full moons are particularly problematic), but I have ear plugs. Carol At 03:50 PM 5/9/2014, you wrote: Sheila is a good dog in that she only barks when there's really a problem. Living only 30-40 feet from the house, that is important to us. I'd like to at least try to get the pup to learn from that example. Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas starting to look into LGDs locally. I'll try googling on the subject regarding the dogs themselves, but there are some AB-BB questions related to dogs I'd like to ask: male or female dog? does it matter? at what weight/age are the AB-BB lambs, that they are less likely to get played with and accidentally killed? at what age are the dogs when they are less likely to accidentally kill a AB-BB lamb? since we only breed once a year--in this case, once in 3 years-- and only two or three ewes at a time, we don't have a bunch of spare lambs around to spend allowing a puppy to figure things out. -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
Coyote attack update: My two surviving Pygmy goats ended up needing vet attention. Lucy, especially, had her tongue hanging half out her mouth, 50% of the time, and was actually trying to eat around her tongue hanging out the side of her mouth. Sometimes the poor thing would foam up and make me worried she had the word's fastest-acting case of rabies. The vet had not seen anything quite like this-- without it simply being a broken jaw or worse. I am posting this to the sheep forum in case it helps you folks with survivors of attack. Both Lucy and Lucas were, apparently, saved from the jaws of death by me coming out to investigate that night. The vet and I shaved their necks and they both had tooth punctures and lacerations. Lucy had a bad swelling under her tongue as well as a good sized puncture right under it that might be infected. She was treated with banamine and penicillin (I am still injecting both goats with penicillin for another few days), and she looked much better as short as only 6 hours later. The next day, almost no tongue hanging out at all. Today, even better. It appears the swelling might have been pressing on a nerve for her tongue, but she may also have some permanent nerve damage there. Now, to keep an eye on her for weight loss, and also, cough caused by aspirating liquid. As for my anti-coyote plan going forward: Sheila, my dog is in there 100% of the time, now. And at night I am penning up the goats, and the willing sheep. This way, Sheila does not contend with an acre's worth of fenced pasture with 10 animals splitting up and running all over the place. She simply guards three gates for paddocks (See my lamb pictures for an idea of the size) I have a good lead on a young, possibly bred female llama. But, I am thinking more seriously about a LDG pup to put in with Sheila. BTW: Sheila is not an LGD, she is an Aussie that was rescued and has never been taught to herd. In fact, I've had to discourage her from herding in order to get her to co-exist with the ewes and goats and guard the property in general. But she loves having a job. Sheila is a good dog in that she only barks when there's really a problem. Living only 30-40 feet from the house, that is important to us. I'd like to at least try to get the pup to learn from that example. Also, she's more than half through her life, so some new blood would be a good idea. The llama thing, from reading everyone's posts, seems a bit hit and miss. Dogs seem to be everyone's last and best line of defense, from what I am reading. Improved fencing would be next. Electric at the bottom and maybe prison-style angled, barbwire fencing at the top, to prevent them from getting over the top. -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies. San Martin, CA. On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 3:12 AM, Cecil R Bearden crbear...@copper.net wrote: I am in central Oklahoma, and here, the animal damage control boys tell me that we have a variety of eastern Coyote that is becoming a problem. I had coyote problems several years ago and trapped 2 coyotes, and 3 dogs. We have a local problem here of an individual taking in every stray dog that comes along, and he took one in that bred with a coyote bitch that has occupied a den in a field I rent. I saw her 2 pups last year and they definitely had the head of the stray dog I referred to. The dog is now gone, thanks to a car, but his legacy lives on. A coyote is incredibly resourceful at survival both short and long term. Around here, it will eat the dog or cat food put outside, then it will eat the dog or cat. Keeping dog food inside and also keeping dogs neutered and confined to their property will go long way in keeping the coyote population in check. Cecil in OKla On 5/6/2014 2:28 PM, Joanne Vaughn wrote: I wish that submitters would indicate what area of the county they are posting from. It is especially important when one considers a subject like coyotes. Here in the northeast coyotes are hybridizing with Canadian wolves and they are hunting in groups. What may work in Southern California where the coyotes are just slightly larger than northeastern foxes might not work with a Coy-wolf. That being said, we live in a coyote high count neighborhood where the Coyotes are about the size of German Shepherd dogs. This winter we protected 30 sheep and 24 ducks with a woven wire fence, hot wires at top and bottom and 2 standard donkeys free to patrol the paddock at night. The coyotes left evidence that they scaled the 48 woven wire of an adjacent paddock. And they were seen traversing adjacent paddocks but did not enter our protected night paddock. Some say just the scent of donkeys is enough to keep them away but that is not correct. Some say Standards must be required as to have the size needed. We had an incident near Buffalo NY where a woman's mini donk was attacked by a coyote even as she tried to defend it. A friends 2 minis ran for self preservation and left the
Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
Wish you were closer Michael. I have a litter of livestock guardian dog puppies being raised with bottle baby lambs right now. The puppies were born April 15th and the lambs are recent. All one happy family. Glad to hear the goats are coming around! Mark Wintermute Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas Coyote attack update: My two surviving Pygmy goats ended up needing vet attention. Lucy, especially, had her tongue hanging half out her mouth, 50% of the time, and was actually trying to eat around her tongue hanging out the side of her mouth. Sometimes the poor thing would foam up and make me worried she had the word's fastest-acting case of rabies. The vet had not seen anything quite like this-- without it simply being a broken jaw or worse. I am posting this to the sheep forum in case it helps you folks with survivors of attack. Both Lucy and Lucas were, apparently, saved from the jaws of death by me coming out to investigate that night. The vet and I shaved their necks and they both had tooth punctures and lacerations. Lucy had a bad swelling under her tongue as well as a good sized puncture right under it that might be infected. She was treated with banamine and penicillin (I am still injecting both goats with penicillin for another few days), and she looked much better as short as only 6 hours later. The next day, almost no tongue hanging out at all. Today, even better. It appears the swelling might have been pressing on a nerve for her tongue, but she may also have some permanent nerve damage there. Now, to keep an eye on her for weight loss, and also, cough caused by aspirating liquid. As for my anti-coyote plan going forward: Sheila, my dog is in there 100% of the time, now. And at night I am penning up the goats, and the willing sheep. This way, Sheila does not contend with an acre's worth of fenced pasture with 10 animals splitting up and running all over the place. She simply guards three gates for paddocks (See my lamb pictures for an idea of the size) I have a good lead on a young, possibly bred female llama. But, I am thinking more seriously about a LDG pup to put in with Sheila. BTW: Sheila is not an LGD, she is an Aussie that was rescued and has never been taught to herd. In fact, I've had to discourage her from herding in order to get her to co-exist with the ewes and goats and guard the property in general. But she loves having a job. Sheila is a good dog in that she only barks when there's really a problem. Living only 30-40 feet from the house, that is important to us. I'd like to at least try to get the pup to learn from that example. Also, she's more than half through her life, so some new blood would be a good idea. The llama thing, from reading everyone's posts, seems a bit hit and miss. Dogs seem to be everyone's last and best line of defense, from what I am reading. Improved fencing would be next. Electric at the bottom and maybe prison-style angled, barbwire fencing at the top, to prevent them from getting over the top. -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies. San Martin, CA. ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
Michael, Most LGDs believe that a good offense is the best defense and will network with the entire neighborhood to keep current on the state of affairs. Networking in this sense is barking. And LGDs need to bark long before there is a problem to ensure that whatever is out there doesn't become a problem. In my experience, there are over-barky LGDs, but I have found that my minimalist LGDs still bark at things that I don't perceive as problems. Like you, my farm was victim to a combined cougar/coyote attack that killed and consumed 5 90-lb lambs. I lived under siege until I could purchase my LGDs. They were 6 months old when they arrived (they don't become adults until they are 2 years old), but they had their adult bark. That bark is what I have relied on ever since they arrived in 2008 to keep my farm safe. Yes, it can be really annoying at times (full moons are particularly problematic), but I have ear plugs. Carol At 03:50 PM 5/9/2014, you wrote: Sheila is a good dog in that she only barks when there's really a problem. Living only 30-40 feet from the house, that is important to us. I'd like to at least try to get the pup to learn from that example. Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
I have Tibetan Mastiffs for my LGDs. They are bred to bark just to bark, to keep things away, not to bark just when something is approaching. I hear coyotes around us but they seem to stay away from our property so far. Sent from my iPhone On May 9, 2014, at 5:30 PM, Carol Elkins celk...@critterhaven.biz wrote: Michael, Most LGDs believe that a good offense is the best defense and will network with the entire neighborhood to keep current on the state of affairs. Networking in this sense is barking. And LGDs need to bark long before there is a problem to ensure that whatever is out there doesn't become a problem. In my experience, there are over-barky LGDs, but I have found that my minimalist LGDs still bark at things that I don't perceive as problems. Like you, my farm was victim to a combined cougar/coyote attack that killed and consumed 5 90-lb lambs. I lived under siege until I could purchase my LGDs. They were 6 months old when they arrived (they don't become adults until they are 2 years old), but they had their adult bark. That bark is what I have relied on ever since they arrived in 2008 to keep my farm safe. Yes, it can be really annoying at times (full moons are particularly problematic), but I have ear plugs. Carol At 03:50 PM 5/9/2014, you wrote: Sheila is a good dog in that she only barks when there's really a problem. Living only 30-40 feet from the house, that is important to us. I'd like to at least try to get the pup to learn from that example. Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
My Great Pyrenees cross dogs bark... a lot. They bark at the hawks and vultures in the sky. And I laugh when I see these birds feel the need to fly higher. I have been out at 2:00 am checking on my sheep in the pasture. It is awesome to see those glowing eyes closing in on you at full speed. And the change from aggression mode to the awe shucks it's you, what are you doing out here?. The donkeys do mosey over for a good petting while the dogs go back to the sheep. When the dogs bark it is definitely directed at something. I just don't have the senses to know what that something is. Mark -Original Message- From: Blackbelly [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of Jann Bach Sent: Friday, May 09, 2014 10:01 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Cc: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas I have Tibetan Mastiffs for my LGDs. They are bred to bark just to bark, to keep things away, not to bark just when something is approaching. I hear coyotes around us but they seem to stay away from our property so far. Sent from my iPhone On May 9, 2014, at 5:30 PM, Carol Elkins celk...@critterhaven.biz wrote: Michael, Most LGDs believe that a good offense is the best defense and will network with the entire neighborhood to keep current on the state of affairs. Networking in this sense is barking. And LGDs need to bark long before there is a problem to ensure that whatever is out there doesn't become a problem. In my experience, there are over-barky LGDs, but I have found that my minimalist LGDs still bark at things that I don't perceive as problems. Like you, my farm was victim to a combined cougar/coyote attack that killed and consumed 5 90-lb lambs. I lived under siege until I could purchase my LGDs. They were 6 months old when they arrived (they don't become adults until they are 2 years old), but they had their adult bark. That bark is what I have relied on ever since they arrived in 2008 to keep my farm safe. Yes, it can be really annoying at times (full moons are particularly problematic), but I have ear plugs. Carol At 03:50 PM 5/9/2014, you wrote: Sheila is a good dog in that she only barks when there's really a problem. Living only 30-40 feet from the house, that is important to us. I'd like to at least try to get the pup to learn from that example. Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4577 / Virus Database: 3931/7467 - Release Date: 05/09/14 ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
I wish that submitters would indicate what area of the county they are posting from. It is especially important when one considers a subject like coyotes. Here in the northeast coyotes are hybridizing with Canadian wolves and they are hunting in groups. What may work in Southern California where the coyotes are just slightly larger than northeastern foxes might not work with a Coy-wolf. That being said, we live in a coyote high count neighborhood where the Coyotes are about the size of German Shepherd dogs. This winter we protected 30 sheep and 24 ducks with a woven wire fence, hot wires at top and bottom and 2 standard donkeys free to patrol the paddock at night. The coyotes left evidence that they scaled the 48 woven wire of an adjacent paddock. And they were seen traversing adjacent paddocks but did not enter our protected night paddock. Some say just the scent of donkeys is enough to keep them away but that is not correct. Some say Standards must be required as to have the size needed. We had an incident near Buffalo NY where a woman's mini donk was attacked by a coyote even as she tried to defend it. A friends 2 minis ran for self preservation and left the sheep to fend for themselves. I have my doubts as to whether a single Donkey would fare well with 2 or more coy-wolves in a field. Last winter the sheep were at a friends farm and she protected them in a barn with 2 great Pyrennes locked in with the sheep. She would still have to go out with a shot gun from time to time. This seemed like an inconvenient method to us. Joanne The Genesee Ewe-ery Scottsville NY ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
I am near Kansas City. The coyote hunt primarily individually but are also known to hunt as a pack. They also employ team strategy where one coyote will lead off a dog(s) and then others go in for the kill. One livestock guardian dog is unable to defend a flock. The coyote here range from 45 to 65 pounds and rarely larger. Mark Wintermute -Original Message- From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of Joanne Vaughn Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 2:29 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas I wish that submitters would indicate what area of the county they are posting from. It is especially important when one considers a subject like coyotes. ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
