Re: [blfs-dev] [blfs-book] r12492 - trunk/BOOK/networking/netlibs

2013-12-31 Thread Pierre Labastie
Le 30/12/2013 23:56, Armin K. a écrit :
 On 30.12.2013 23:45, pie...@higgs.linuxfromscratch.org wrote:
 Author: pierre
 Date: Mon Dec 30 14:45:30 2013
 New Revision: 12492

 Log:
 Add forgotten explanation for disable-gssapi

 Modified:
 trunk/BOOK/networking/netlibs/libtirpc.xml

 Modified: trunk/BOOK/networking/netlibs/libtirpc.xml
 ==
 --- trunk/BOOK/networking/netlibs/libtirpc.xml   Mon Dec 30 14:34:17 
 2013(r12491)
 +++ trunk/BOOK/networking/netlibs/libtirpc.xml   Mon Dec 30 14:45:30 
 2013(r12492)
 @@ -132,6 +132,13 @@
 href=../../xincludes/static-libraries.xml/

   para
 +  parameter--disable-gssapi/parameter: This switch is needed if
 +  ulink url=http://www.citi.umich.edu/projects/nfsv4/linux/libgssapi;
 +  libgssapi/ulink is not installed. Remove it if libgssapi is 
 installed
 +  and you want to use it.
 +/para
 +
 +para
 commandmv -v /usr/lib/libtirpc.so.* .../command: Move shared
 libraries into /lib so they are available before /usr is mounted.
   /para

 
 I believe that you can use MIT krb5 libgssapi here, too.
 
Will check, thanks. I'll have to change the optional requirements too.

Regards
Pierre
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Re: [blfs-dev] [blfs-book] r12492 - trunk/BOOK/networking/netlibs

2013-12-31 Thread Pierre Labastie
Le 31/12/2013 10:39, Pierre Labastie a écrit :
 Le 30/12/2013 23:56, Armin K. a écrit :
 On 30.12.2013 23:45, pie...@higgs.linuxfromscratch.org wrote:
 Author: pierre
 Date: Mon Dec 30 14:45:30 2013
 New Revision: 12492

 Log:
 Add forgotten explanation for disable-gssapi

 Modified:
 trunk/BOOK/networking/netlibs/libtirpc.xml

 Modified: trunk/BOOK/networking/netlibs/libtirpc.xml
 ==
 --- trunk/BOOK/networking/netlibs/libtirpc.xml  Mon Dec 30 14:34:17 
 2013(r12491)
 +++ trunk/BOOK/networking/netlibs/libtirpc.xml  Mon Dec 30 14:45:30 
 2013(r12492)
 @@ -132,6 +132,13 @@
 href=../../xincludes/static-libraries.xml/

   para
 +  parameter--disable-gssapi/parameter: This switch is needed if
 +  ulink 
 url=http://www.citi.umich.edu/projects/nfsv4/linux/libgssapi;
 +  libgssapi/ulink is not installed. Remove it if libgssapi is 
 installed
 +  and you want to use it.
 +/para
 +
 +para
 commandmv -v /usr/lib/libtirpc.so.* .../command: Move shared
 libraries into /lib so they are available before /usr is mounted.
   /para


 I believe that you can use MIT krb5 libgssapi here, too.

 Will check, thanks. I'll have to change the optional requirements too.
 
 Regards
 Pierre
 
Actually, it is worse than that: that package installs only gssglue, which is
not tested anymore according to the release notes. and the configure script has:
if test x$enable_gssapi = xyes; then
GSSAPI_CFLAGS=`krb5-config --cflags gssapi`
GSSAPI_LIBS=`krb5-config --libs gssapi`


fi

So krb5 _is_ needed if --disable-gssapi is not passed. I'll change the text
accordingly.

Pierre
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[blfs-dev] man pages permissions wrong: none displayed

2013-12-31 Thread Fernando de Oliveira
I discovered today that no man page was displayed. The reason was a
directory with wrong permissions:

$ ls -dl /usr/share/man
drwxr-x--- 52 root root 4096 Dez 27 13:28 /usr/share/man

No idea why.

Corrected with:

# chmod -c 2775 /usr/share/man

Any way of discovering the source for the problem?

Thanks.

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Re: [blfs-dev] man pages permissions wrong: none displayed

2013-12-31 Thread Pierre Labastie
Le 31/12/2013 12:50, Fernando de Oliveira a écrit :
 I discovered today that no man page was displayed. The reason was a
 directory with wrong permissions:
 
 $ ls -dl /usr/share/man
 drwxr-x--- 52 root root 4096 Dez 27 13:28 /usr/share/man
 
 No idea why.
 
 Corrected with:
 
 # chmod -c 2775 /usr/share/man
 
 Any way of discovering the source for the problem?
 
 Thanks.
 
If you have no file monitoring installed, the only indication you have is the
date (December 27) and the time (13:28) it got modified for the last time.

And then, try to remember (or to find logs of) what you were doing at that 
time...

regards
Pierre
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Re: [blfs-dev] man pages permissions wrong: none displayed

2013-12-31 Thread Fernando de Oliveira
Em 31-12-2013 09:19, Pierre Labastie escreveu:
 Le 31/12/2013 12:50, Fernando de Oliveira a écrit :
 I discovered today that no man page was displayed. The reason was a
 directory with wrong permissions:

 $ ls -dl /usr/share/man
 drwxr-x--- 52 root root 4096 Dez 27 13:28 /usr/share/man

 No idea why.

 Corrected with:

 # chmod -c 2775 /usr/share/man

 Any way of discovering the source for the problem?

 Thanks.

 If you have no file monitoring installed, the only indication you have is the
 date (December 27) and the time (13:28) it got modified for the last time.
 
 And then, try to remember (or to find logs of) what you were doing at that 
 time...
 
 regards
 Pierre
 

Thanks, Pierre. So obvious, why could not I think that, duh?

27-Dec-2013 13:28  xfce4-terminal-0.6.3

Now, need to see if it is really this one, the problem.

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Re: [blfs-dev] man pages permissions wrong: none displayed

2013-12-31 Thread Fernando de Oliveira
Em 31-12-2013 10:07, Fernando de Oliveira escreveu:
 Em 31-12-2013 09:19, Pierre Labastie escreveu:
 Le 31/12/2013 12:50, Fernando de Oliveira a écrit :
 I discovered today that no man page was displayed. The reason was a
 directory with wrong permissions:

 $ ls -dl /usr/share/man
 drwxr-x--- 52 root root 4096 Dez 27 13:28 /usr/share/man

 No idea why.

 Corrected with:

 # chmod -c 2775 /usr/share/man

 Any way of discovering the source for the problem?

 Thanks.

 If you have no file monitoring installed, the only indication you have is the
 date (December 27) and the time (13:28) it got modified for the last time.

 And then, try to remember (or to find logs of) what you were doing at that 
 time...

 regards
 Pierre

 27-Dec-2013 13:28  xfce4-terminal-0.6.3
 
 Now, need to see if it is really this one, the problem.
 

It does not, just installs a man page with 664:

{{{
for lang in C ar ca da de el es fr gl id it ja ko lt pl pt_BR pt ru sr
sv tr ug uk zh_CN; do \
file=./man/$lang/xfce4-terminal.1; \
if test -f $file ; then \
if test x$lang = xC; then \
dest=/usr/share/man/man1; \
else \
dest=/usr/share/man/$lang/man1; \
fi; \
/bin/sh
/home/fernando/tmp/paco-build-2013.12.27-13h28m17s/xfce4-terminal-0.6.3/install-sh
-d $dest; \
dest=`echo $dest/xfce4-terminal.1 | sed 's,x,x,'`; \
/usr/bin/install -c -m 644 $file $dest; \
fi \
done;
}}}

But ghostscript was the other one I could find with reference to
/usr/share/man:

{{{
/bin/sh -c 'test -d /usr/share/man || mkdir -p /usr/share/man'
}}}

So, still a mystery.

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Re: [blfs-dev] man pages permissions wrong: none displayed

2013-12-31 Thread Ken Moffat
On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 10:49:48AM -0300, Fernando de Oliveira wrote:
 Em 31-12-2013 10:07, Fernando de Oliveira escreveu:
  Em 31-12-2013 09:19, Pierre Labastie escreveu:
  Le 31/12/2013 12:50, Fernando de Oliveira a écrit :
  I discovered today that no man page was displayed. The reason was a
  directory with wrong permissions:
 
  $ ls -dl /usr/share/man
  drwxr-x--- 52 root root 4096 Dez 27 13:28 /usr/share/man
 
  No idea why.
 
  Corrected with:
 
  # chmod -c 2775 /usr/share/man
 
  Any way of discovering the source for the problem?
 
  Thanks.
 
  If you have no file monitoring installed, the only indication you have is 
  the
  date (December 27) and the time (13:28) it got modified for the last time.
 
  And then, try to remember (or to find logs of) what you were doing at that 
  time...
 
  regards
  Pierre
 
  27-Dec-2013 13:28  xfce4-terminal-0.6.3
  
  Now, need to see if it is really this one, the problem.
  
 
 It does not, just installs a man page with 664:
 
 /bin/sh -c 'test -d /usr/share/man || mkdir -p /usr/share/man'
 }}}
 
 So, still a mystery.
 

 We had this a few months ago - in that case it was the git
manpages which are shipped in a separate tarball.  Unfortunately,
this sort of error can remain hidden for several days (or longer)
until we need to check a man page.

 Does a git manpage upgrade seem a likely possibility ?  If not, do
you have any recent backups - and a list of what you installed - to
help identify what range of packages were involved ?  Did you
install any other *separate* manpage tarballs ?

ĸen
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Re: [blfs-dev] man pages permissions wrong: none displayed

2013-12-31 Thread Fernando de Oliveira
Em 31-12-2013 13:38, Ken Moffat escreveu:
 On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 10:49:48AM -0300, Fernando de Oliveira wrote:
 Em 31-12-2013 10:07, Fernando de Oliveira escreveu:
 Em 31-12-2013 09:19, Pierre Labastie escreveu:
 Le 31/12/2013 12:50, Fernando de Oliveira a écrit :
 I discovered today that no man page was displayed. The reason was a
 directory with wrong permissions:

 $ ls -dl /usr/share/man
 drwxr-x--- 52 root root 4096 Dez 27 13:28 /usr/share/man

 No idea why.

 Corrected with:

 # chmod -c 2775 /usr/share/man

 Any way of discovering the source for the problem?

 Thanks.

 If you have no file monitoring installed, the only indication you have is 
 the
 date (December 27) and the time (13:28) it got modified for the last time.

 And then, try to remember (or to find logs of) what you were doing at that 
 time...


 27-Dec-2013 13:28  xfce4-terminal-0.6.3

 Now, need to see if it is really this one, the problem.


 It does not, just installs a man page with 664:

 /bin/sh -c 'test -d /usr/share/man || mkdir -p /usr/share/man'
 }}}

 So, still a mystery.


 
  We had this a few months ago - in that case it was the git
 manpages which are shipped in a separate tarball.  Unfortunately,
 this sort of error can remain hidden for several days (or longer)
 until we need to check a man page.

I knew there was a similar problem, and was hoping someone would remember.

You did. Right on the spot: git. I uncompressed the tarballs in a
dir1/dir2/ temp directory, and it changed the permissions. For some
unknown reasons, I followed that thread but did not update my script.
Repeated a wrong install, man problem back, corrected by hand and with
the good script, everything is good, now.

Thanks Pierre and, specially, ĸen and his wonderful memory.

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Re: [blfs-dev] man pages permissions wrong: none displayed

2013-12-31 Thread Pierre Labastie
Le 31/12/2013 17:38, Ken Moffat a écrit :
 On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 10:49:48AM -0300, Fernando de Oliveira wrote:
 Em 31-12-2013 10:07, Fernando de Oliveira escreveu:
 Em 31-12-2013 09:19, Pierre Labastie escreveu:
 Le 31/12/2013 12:50, Fernando de Oliveira a écrit :
 I discovered today that no man page was displayed. The reason was a
 directory with wrong permissions:

 $ ls -dl /usr/share/man
 drwxr-x--- 52 root root 4096 Dez 27 13:28 /usr/share/man

 No idea why.

 Corrected with:

 # chmod -c 2775 /usr/share/man

 Any way of discovering the source for the problem?

 Thanks.

 If you have no file monitoring installed, the only indication you have is 
 the
 date (December 27) and the time (13:28) it got modified for the last time.

 And then, try to remember (or to find logs of) what you were doing at that 
 time...

 regards
 Pierre

 27-Dec-2013 13:28  xfce4-terminal-0.6.3

 Now, need to see if it is really this one, the problem.


 It does not, just installs a man page with 664:

 /bin/sh -c 'test -d /usr/share/man || mkdir -p /usr/share/man'
 }}}

 So, still a mystery.

 
  We had this a few months ago - in that case it was the git
 manpages which are shipped in a separate tarball.  Unfortunately,
 this sort of error can remain hidden for several days (or longer)
 until we need to check a man page.
 

  Does a git manpage upgrade seem a likely possibility ?  If not, do
 you have any recent backups - and a list of what you installed - to
 help identify what range of packages were involved ?  Did you
 install any other *separate* manpage tarballs ?
 
 ĸen
 
Why did you use the setgid bit?

Anyway, maybe you could try to find which files have 660 or 640 (or anything
ending with 0) inside the /usr/share/man hierarchy?
for example: find /usr/share/man \! -perm /7
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Re: [blfs-dev] man pages permissions wrong: none displayed

2013-12-31 Thread Pierre Labastie
Le 31/12/2013 18:18, Pierre Labastie a écrit :
 Le 31/12/2013 17:38, Ken Moffat a écrit :
 On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 10:49:48AM -0300, Fernando de Oliveira wrote:
 Em 31-12-2013 10:07, Fernando de Oliveira escreveu:
 Em 31-12-2013 09:19, Pierre Labastie escreveu:
 Le 31/12/2013 12:50, Fernando de Oliveira a écrit :
 I discovered today that no man page was displayed. The reason was a
 directory with wrong permissions:

 $ ls -dl /usr/share/man
 drwxr-x--- 52 root root 4096 Dez 27 13:28 /usr/share/man

 No idea why.

 Corrected with:

 # chmod -c 2775 /usr/share/man

 Any way of discovering the source for the problem?

 Thanks.

 If you have no file monitoring installed, the only indication you have is 
 the
 date (December 27) and the time (13:28) it got modified for the last time.

 And then, try to remember (or to find logs of) what you were doing at 
 that time...

 regards
 Pierre

 27-Dec-2013 13:28  xfce4-terminal-0.6.3

 Now, need to see if it is really this one, the problem.


 It does not, just installs a man page with 664:

 /bin/sh -c 'test -d /usr/share/man || mkdir -p /usr/share/man'
 }}}

 So, still a mystery.


  We had this a few months ago - in that case it was the git
 manpages which are shipped in a separate tarball.  Unfortunately,
 this sort of error can remain hidden for several days (or longer)
 until we need to check a man page.

 
  Does a git manpage upgrade seem a likely possibility ?  If not, do
 you have any recent backups - and a list of what you installed - to
 help identify what range of packages were involved ?  Did you
 install any other *separate* manpage tarballs ?

 ĸen

 Why did you use the setgid bit?
 
 Anyway, maybe you could try to find which files have 660 or 640 (or anything
 ending with 0) inside the /usr/share/man hierarchy?
 for example: find /usr/share/man \! -perm /7
 

Forget my last message, which I wrote before seeing yours. Glad you solved it.
And I must memorize that git manpages are mean!

Regards
Pierre


Pierre
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[blfs-dev] Nitpick with Shadow Package

2013-12-31 Thread Randy McMurchy
Hi all,

Looking at the BLFS Shadow package instructions, there is a command
and descriptive text for disabling the Korean and Chinese man pages.
However, this is not done in LFS. Seems the two books would be
consistent as far as which man pages are installed.

Thoughts?

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Re: [blfs-dev] Nitpick with Shadow Package

2013-12-31 Thread Armin K.
On 12/31/2013 06:58 PM, Randy McMurchy wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 Looking at the BLFS Shadow package instructions, there is a command
 and descriptive text for disabling the Korean and Chinese man pages.
 However, this is not done in LFS. Seems the two books would be
 consistent as far as which man pages are installed.
 
 Thoughts?
 

I believe that LFS had some note for man-db that it couldn't properly
display man pages in some languages, but that was fixed some time ago.

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Re: [blfs-dev] Nitpick with Shadow Package

2013-12-31 Thread Bruce Dubbs
Armin K. wrote:
 On 12/31/2013 06:58 PM, Randy McMurchy wrote:
 Hi all,

 Looking at the BLFS Shadow package instructions, there is a command
 and descriptive text for disabling the Korean and Chinese man pages.
 However, this is not done in LFS. Seems the two books would be
 consistent as far as which man pages are installed.

 Thoughts?


 I believe that LFS had some note for man-db that it couldn't properly
 display man pages in some languages, but that was fixed some time ago.

I'm not sure how to check.  I tried:

$ LANG=ko man chfn
man: can't set the locale; make sure $LC_* and $LANG are correct

but it did display the English page.  We do have the ko, zh_CN, and 
zh_TW pages installed.  I also see that nmap installs a zh page.

   -- Bruce

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Re: [blfs-dev] Nitpick with Shadow Package

2013-12-31 Thread Pierre Labastie
Le 31/12/2013 19:17, Bruce Dubbs a écrit :
 Armin K. wrote:
 On 12/31/2013 06:58 PM, Randy McMurchy wrote:
 Hi all,

 Looking at the BLFS Shadow package instructions, there is a command
 and descriptive text for disabling the Korean and Chinese man pages.
 However, this is not done in LFS. Seems the two books would be
 consistent as far as which man pages are installed.

 Thoughts?


 I believe that LFS had some note for man-db that it couldn't properly
 display man pages in some languages, but that was fixed some time ago.
 
 I'm not sure how to check.  I tried:
 
 $ LANG=ko man chfn
 man: can't set the locale; make sure $LC_* and $LANG are correct
 
 but it did display the English page.  We do have the ko, zh_CN, and 
 zh_TW pages installed.  I also see that nmap installs a zh page.
 
-- Bruce
 
maybe you need some localedef command. If you have only what is on glibc
page, you do not have localedef for ko. There is zh_CN, though.

Tried:
LANG=zh_CN.GB18030 man chfn

and got a bunch of question marks (well, I do not have the right font
installed), followed by a text in English.

Well, tried too:
LANG=zh_CN.GB18030 man useradd

gives many more question marks...

Pierre
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Re: [blfs-dev] Nitpick with Shadow Package

2013-12-31 Thread Ken Moffat
On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 12:17:42PM -0600, Bruce Dubbs wrote:
 Armin K. wrote:
  On 12/31/2013 06:58 PM, Randy McMurchy wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  Looking at the BLFS Shadow package instructions, there is a command
  and descriptive text for disabling the Korean and Chinese man pages.
  However, this is not done in LFS. Seems the two books would be
  consistent as far as which man pages are installed.
 
  Thoughts?
 
 
  I believe that LFS had some note for man-db that it couldn't properly
  display man pages in some languages, but that was fixed some time ago.
 
 I'm not sure how to check.  I tried:
 
 $ LANG=ko man chfn
 man: can't set the locale; make sure $LC_* and $LANG are correct
 
 but it did display the English page.  We do have the ko, zh_CN, and 
 zh_TW pages installed.  I also see that nmap installs a zh page.
 
-- Bruce
 

 From some quick tests (in urxvt on a 'buntu desktop on my
netbook, using ssh to get to my 7.4 server) I can display the shadow
pages I tried for the ja_JP, ko_KR, zh_CN, zh_TW locales : but only
if I specify LC_ALL=ja_JP.UTF-8 : omitting the .UTF-8 gave me
gibberish.

 This also requires the locales, of course, and suitable fonts.

 Arguably, LFS is out of date - but very few LFS users seem to care
about CJK text.

 There is, of course, no way to display CJK in a regular tty (far
too many potential glyphs).  But from any desktop term which is
correctly set up and has a suitable font you can display them using
the form 'man /usr/share/man/ja/man1/su.1' and the same if you
replace 'ja' by 'ko', 'zh_CN' or 'zh_TW'.  Unfortunately, many of
the other pages are not present in all four of these CJK locales.

ĸen
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Re: [blfs-dev] Nitpick with Shadow Package

2013-12-31 Thread Bruce Dubbs
Ken Moffat wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 12:17:42PM -0600, Bruce Dubbs wrote:
 Armin K. wrote:
 On 12/31/2013 06:58 PM, Randy McMurchy wrote:
 Hi all,

 Looking at the BLFS Shadow package instructions, there is a command
 and descriptive text for disabling the Korean and Chinese man pages.
 However, this is not done in LFS. Seems the two books would be
 consistent as far as which man pages are installed.

 Thoughts?


 I believe that LFS had some note for man-db that it couldn't properly
 display man pages in some languages, but that was fixed some time ago.

 I'm not sure how to check.  I tried:

 $ LANG=ko man chfn
 man: can't set the locale; make sure $LC_* and $LANG are correct

 but it did display the English page.  We do have the ko, zh_CN, and
 zh_TW pages installed.  I also see that nmap installs a zh page.

 -- Bruce


   From some quick tests (in urxvt on a 'buntu desktop on my
 netbook, using ssh to get to my 7.4 server) I can display the shadow
 pages I tried for the ja_JP, ko_KR, zh_CN, zh_TW locales : but only
 if I specify LC_ALL=ja_JP.UTF-8 : omitting the .UTF-8 gave me
 gibberish.

   This also requires the locales, of course, and suitable fonts.

   Arguably, LFS is out of date - but very few LFS users seem to care
 about CJK text.

   There is, of course, no way to display CJK in a regular tty (far
 too many potential glyphs).  But from any desktop term which is
 correctly set up and has a suitable font you can display them using
 the form 'man /usr/share/man/ja/man1/su.1' and the same if you
 replace 'ja' by 'ko', 'zh_CN' or 'zh_TW'.  Unfortunately, many of
 the other pages are not present in all four of these CJK locales.

In any case, Randy's observation that LFS and BLFS install shadow 
differently is still accurate.  Should we change LFS to omit the ko/zn 
man pages or remove the sed from BLFS that does that.

I lean towards removing the sed from BLFS, but will defer to those who 
do more with non-US fonts.

   -- Bruce



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Re: [blfs-dev] Nitpick with Shadow Package

2013-12-31 Thread Ken Moffat
On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 01:36:47PM -0600, Bruce Dubbs wrote:
 
 In any case, Randy's observation that LFS and BLFS install shadow 
 differently is still accurate.  Should we change LFS to omit the ko/zn 
 man pages or remove the sed from BLFS that does that.
 
 I lean towards removing the sed from BLFS, but will defer to those who 
 do more with non-US fonts.
 
-- Bruce

 I'm all for allowing _any_ text to render, even if I can't read it.
So, +1 for that from me - but I'd rather see the comments from the
editors who are actively maintaining the book.

 Meanwhile, Lang May Yer Lum Reek!

ĸen - Just a wee deoch an doruis then ...
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Re: [blfs-dev] Nitpick with Shadow Package

2013-12-31 Thread Pierre Labastie
Le 31/12/2013 22:26, Ken Moffat a écrit :
 On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 01:36:47PM -0600, Bruce Dubbs wrote:

 In any case, Randy's observation that LFS and BLFS install shadow 
 differently is still accurate.  Should we change LFS to omit the ko/zn 
 man pages or remove the sed from BLFS that does that.

 I lean towards removing the sed from BLFS, but will defer to those who 
 do more with non-US fonts.

-- Bruce
 
  I'm all for allowing _any_ text to render, even if I can't read it.
 So, +1 for that from me - but I'd rather see the comments from the
 editors who are actively maintaining the book.
 
  Meanwhile, Lang May Yer Lum Reek!
 
 ĸen - Just a wee deoch an doruis then ...
 
Actually, whether you have a sed in BLFS or not, you'll have all the manpages
since they are installed in LFS...

So +1 for removing: it does not change the final state and is just one line
less on the page.

Happy new year to all (1h25 left in 2013 here)

Pierre
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Re: [blfs-dev] Nitpick with Shadow Package

2013-12-31 Thread Ken Moffat
On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 09:26:53PM +, Ken Moffat wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 01:36:47PM -0600, Bruce Dubbs wrote:
  
  In any case, Randy's observation that LFS and BLFS install shadow 
  differently is still accurate.  Should we change LFS to omit the ko/zn 
  man pages or remove the sed from BLFS that does that.
  
  I lean towards removing the sed from BLFS, but will defer to those who 
  do more with non-US fonts.
  
 -- Bruce
 
  I'm all for allowing _any_ text to render, even if I can't read it.
 So, +1 for that from me - but I'd rather see the comments from the
 editors who are actively maintaining the book.
 
 And before the year gets any older, I'll offer my apologies to both
Bruce and Randy for misreading Randy's original post.  Anyway,
everything is for the best, in the best of all possible worlds.
[ Voltaire, Candide ]

ĸen
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