Re: Screen reader advice for a Linux sysadmin

[Linux for blind general discussion]

I would be curious to hear how you were successful in using a virtual box to 
run any other operating system when using a screen reader to interact with your 
machine? I have tried VMware Fusion on my Mac, Virtualbox, and Parallels with 
absolutely no great success. Virtualbox is completely inaccessible, Parallels 
only has a visual install process, and VMware fusion even through it was able 
to be installed and ran I was finding that no matter what I did some how the 
key commands I was issuing to my virtual machine acted as OS commands and took 
me out of th virtual machine. If you were in deed able to run a virtual 
instance of Linux on a Mac and rely on a screen reader for computer interaction 
I would be curious as to how you got it to work. 

I agree Voiceover does lose focus of the terminal windo pretty often but I do 
not see much difference between issuing one command to interact with the shell 
or to enter flat review. One thing I did like about Orca was that when you 
issue the command in the console it begins reading from the top but just as 
with any other screen reader once you stop the speech it just places your 
cursor at the bottom of the output window.

I have not used speakup before but at some point I will have to find the 
packages to get it on my Ubuntu box. I appreciate Orca for some things but it 
is not enough as a stand alone tool in my opinion. It would be great for 
someone to post some configerations of their Ubuntu box which uses Orca, 
Speakup, and whatever tools they use to make their machine the most efficient 
for the desktop, terminal, and with speech output. Thanks
Bryan Duarte | software engineer

ASU Computer Science Ph.D Student
IGERT Fellow
Alliance for Person-centered Accessible Technology (APAcT)
Center for Cognitive Ubiquitous Computing (CUbiC Lab)
National Federation of the Blind of Arizona | Affiliate Board Member
National Association of Blind Students | Board Member
Arizona Association of Blind Students | President
Phone: 480-652-3045

> On Mar 5, 2018, at 8:36 AM, Linux for blind general discussion 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Janina and all,
> 
> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:21:47AM -0500, Linux for blind general discussion 
> wrote:
>>> 2. You said "After using a Mac for a few weeks at work I was very 
>>> disappointed. 
>>> Especialy the VoiceOver support in the terminal is not more then 
>>> rudimentary compared to the things you can do with a screenreader on a 
>>> linux system."
>>> 
>> This is my experience precisely with my Mac Airbook.
>> 
>> In fact, while traveling with only the Airbook, I would ssh from a
>> VMware Linux session into my Mac to do Mac terminal tasks, because of
>> the superior screen reader support.
> 
> I also did it that way and installed a VM with Debian in VMware Fusion 
> to get my tasks, that needed to be done in a terminal, done on my Mac 
> Book Air.
> 
>> As noted above, braille would viciate my statement. I'm speaking of TTS
>> only interfacing.
> 
> Me too. Because I learned braille when I was 15 years old, tts is much 
> more important to me than braille. I only use braille when programming 
> or to format text.
> 
> VoiceOver might have a nicer voice then speakup, espeak or other linux 
> screenreaders, but navigating the screen is much mor difficult. Also VO 
> very ofthen looses focus, is overloaded with much output of the console, 
> e.g., and I have not found any settings on my Mac to make those things 
> better.
> 
> Ciao,
> 
>  Schoepp
> 
> -- 
> Christian Schoepplein -  - http://schoeppi.net
> 
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Re: Screen reader advice for a Linux sysadmin

[Linux for blind general discussion]

there is a option in voice over utilities

for using the numpad
if no one responds back let me know and I can turn on my macbook and 
give you exact instructions on where to go

On 3/5/2018 8:21 AM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:

Linux for blind general discussion writes:

Voiceover can be made to act exactly like speakup using the numpad keys.


On an Airbook? How?


On Thu, 1 Mar 2018, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:


Oh, yes, one can do this with Voice Over, but it's so very, very
cumbersome compared to using Speakup's numeric keypad screen review.

I just don't have all day to fuss with VO. Just my experience.

Janina

Linux for blind general discussion writes:

-eric,

I honestly do not have any special software or configerations to interact with the Unix console. I 
have noticed that each person who is having issues with the Mac terminal have in common. Remember 
Voiceover requires that you use the VoiceOver keys to navigate the VoiceOver cursor. It is similar 
to the flat review in Linux but uses different keys. You have to hold down the CTRL + CMD keys to 
move the cursor. In addition to these keys you have to make sure you are interacting with the 
terminal window. VoiceOver requires that you are "interacting" with windows for VoiceOver 
to read the contents of that window. To do this you press the Shift key + CTRL + CMD + the down 
arrow. In terms of the terminal window you would listen for "Shell" and perform the 
interaction command. From this point you would use the VoiceOver navigation commands to move around 
the stdout including the man pages.

To interact with the man pages simply execute the man page you are interested 
in then use the above commands to read it. Once you have read the currently 
displayed page you would press the space bar to bring up the next section of 
the man page. You can tell if there is additional pages not being displayed 
because at the bottom there will be a : displayed letting you know there are 
more pages to show. To exit the man pages you would simply type the letter q. I 
typically will execute this command to have more control of the man docs and 
can review them later.
$ man grep >> grep.txt

I am sure you understand what that is doing but in case someone does not it is 
basically redirecting the stdout from the man command to a file named grep.txt. 
I then will use vim or cat to read the documentation. Hope this helps
Bryan Duarte | software engineer

ASU Computer Science Ph.D Student
IGERT Fellow
Alliance for Person-centered Accessible Technology (APAcT)
Center for Cognitive Ubiquitous Computing (CUbiC Lab)
National Federation of the Blind of Arizona | Affiliate Board Member
National Association of Blind Students | Board Member
Arizona Association of Blind Students | President
Phone: 480-652-3045


On Feb 28, 2018, at 5:03 PM, Linux for blind general discussion 
 wrote:

-eric

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Re: Screen reader advice for a Linux sysadmin

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Hi Janina and all,

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:21:47AM -0500, Linux for blind general discussion 
wrote:
>> 2. You said "After using a Mac for a few weeks at work I was very 
>> disappointed. 
>> Especialy the VoiceOver support in the terminal is not more then 
>> rudimentary compared to the things you can do with a screenreader on a 
>> linux system."
>> 
>This is my experience precisely with my Mac Airbook.
>
>In fact, while traveling with only the Airbook, I would ssh from a
>VMware Linux session into my Mac to do Mac terminal tasks, because of
>the superior screen reader support.

I also did it that way and installed a VM with Debian in VMware Fusion 
to get my tasks, that needed to be done in a terminal, done on my Mac 
Book Air.

>As noted above, braille would viciate my statement. I'm speaking of TTS
>only interfacing.

Me too. Because I learned braille when I was 15 years old, tts is much 
more important to me than braille. I only use braille when programming 
or to format text.

VoiceOver might have a nicer voice then speakup, espeak or other linux 
screenreaders, but navigating the screen is much mor difficult. Also VO 
very ofthen looses focus, is overloaded with much output of the console, 
e.g., and I have not found any settings on my Mac to make those things 
better.

Ciao,

  Schoepp

-- 
Christian Schoepplein -  - http://schoeppi.net

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Re: Screen reader advice for a Linux sysadmin

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Linux for blind general discussion writes:
> 
> Voiceover can be made to act exactly like speakup using the numpad keys.
> 
On an Airbook? How?

> On Thu, 1 Mar 2018, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
> 
> > Oh, yes, one can do this with Voice Over, but it's so very, very
> > cumbersome compared to using Speakup's numeric keypad screen review.
> >
> > I just don't have all day to fuss with VO. Just my experience.
> >
> > Janina
> >
> > Linux for blind general discussion writes:
> > > -eric,
> > >
> > > I honestly do not have any special software or configerations to interact 
> > > with the Unix console. I have noticed that each person who is having 
> > > issues with the Mac terminal have in common. Remember Voiceover requires 
> > > that you use the VoiceOver keys to navigate the VoiceOver cursor. It is 
> > > similar to the flat review in Linux but uses different keys. You have to 
> > > hold down the CTRL + CMD keys to move the cursor. In addition to these 
> > > keys you have to make sure you are interacting with the terminal window. 
> > > VoiceOver requires that you are "interacting" with windows for VoiceOver 
> > > to read the contents of that window. To do this you press the Shift key + 
> > > CTRL + CMD + the down arrow. In terms of the terminal window you would 
> > > listen for "Shell" and perform the interaction command. From this point 
> > > you would use the VoiceOver navigation commands to move around the stdout 
> > > including the man pages.
> > >
> > > To interact with the man pages simply execute the man page you are 
> > > interested in then use the above commands to read it. Once you have read 
> > > the currently displayed page you would press the space bar to bring up 
> > > the next section of the man page. You can tell if there is additional 
> > > pages not being displayed because at the bottom there will be a : 
> > > displayed letting you know there are more pages to show. To exit the man 
> > > pages you would simply type the letter q. I typically will execute this 
> > > command to have more control of the man docs and can review them later.
> > > $ man grep >> grep.txt
> > >
> > > I am sure you understand what that is doing but in case someone does not 
> > > it is basically redirecting the stdout from the man command to a file 
> > > named grep.txt. I then will use vim or cat to read the documentation. 
> > > Hope this helps
> > > Bryan Duarte | software engineer
> > >
> > > ASU Computer Science Ph.D Student
> > > IGERT Fellow
> > > Alliance for Person-centered Accessible Technology (APAcT)
> > > Center for Cognitive Ubiquitous Computing (CUbiC Lab)
> > > National Federation of the Blind of Arizona | Affiliate Board Member
> > > National Association of Blind Students | Board Member
> > > Arizona Association of Blind Students | President
> > > Phone: 480-652-3045
> > >
> > > > On Feb 28, 2018, at 5:03 PM, Linux for blind general discussion 
> > > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > -eric
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Blinux-list mailing list
> > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >
> >
> 
> -- 
> XB
> 
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-- 

Janina Sajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectureshttp://www.w3.org/wai/apa

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