Re: [steering-discuss] List discussion purpose
Hello, 2011/8/12 Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Hello, let me jump in quickly with a few thoughts: - The set-up of this list was discussed in one of last year's steering commitee public conference calls, and if I remember correctly, it was even a demand by the community, not by the steering committee. (Which does not mean we do not consider it a good idea.) - The purpose of this list is for the steering committee to discuss on topics. Others of course can jump in, but let's not forget we have a discuss mailing list that serves what it's name has: discussion. So, the topics on this list indeed should *only* be related to things concerning steering committee decisions. Traffic on this list should be kept rather low, main discussions should take place on the discuss list. I myself will try to follow that idea better in the future, I've also swamped the steering-discuss list with topics that would have belonged to a different list. - Yes, there is a private list, and there are private calls. This has not been kept in secret, we've stated that several times at various places. We try to discuss as many things in public as possible, and our bylaws also have that we make private items public when possible. One recent example for that is the letter of intent we sent regarding OpenOffice.org. During that discussion, it was crucial to not have it public - especially when dealing with corporations, there are of course topics that are to be kept confidential. I hope it is obvious to everyone why we could not discuss some internals of the things happening at OpenOffice.org in public. It was simply not possible, and if we hadn't have a chance to discuss it in private, we would have been forcd to keep out of it totally, which is not ideal. When the discussion phase has ended, we made the letter public, so everyone could read the contents. So, please, everyone, calm down a bit. What Charles tried to say is that we should keep the focus of this list, and move other discussions on their appropriate list, e.g. discuss@tdf. I agree that having a private list is always connected to some bad feelings, but I hope you see there are justified reasons for having that. Again, we discuss anything in public that is possible, and the topics that are discussed in private will be made public afterwards if that is feasible. Nothing on our principle of transparency, openness and meritocracy has changed. I give you my word on that. Florian To second Florian's point about the private list, and to answer Drew's requests, it is actually rather simple. There is no decision by principle taken privately on the private mailing list. In fact the steering-discuss list is where decisions are being taken (there is no rest of us here, Drew, because I'm on the discuss@ list as well, and I have a strong feeling against using that list for SC/BoD discussion.) Private communications happen in two cases: there's a need for confidentiality in legal terms or one of us wishes to switch to a more informal mode because he/she cannot discuss his / her point clearly without feeling uncomfortable in public. However, note that we have a rule inside our bylaws that's rather clear about transparency and disclosure: if we have a decision that needs to be taken care of in confidentiality we must disclose it after a specific period of time. Hence the case with our letter of intent to Oracle. I must reassure everyone here we don't write such letters every month, very far from that :) Last but not least the use of one private list exists in every FOSS project; and LibreOffice, just like every other project, does make use of it, however, we make sure that the decision making process does not happen there. Best, Charles. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] decision on screenshots
Hi, based on the feedback, this would be my proposal to vote on: == Screenshots for documentation, website and marketing should preferably be taken on GNU/Linux, but may also be taken on any other operating system. The Steering Committee acknowledges that there is a small legal risk involved for screenshots on non-free operating systems, but it feels that the legal risk involved is no greater than other theoretical risk free software projects face. The Steering Committee recommends a consistent visual appearance (e.g. theming and branding) for the screenshots taken on the selected operating system. It is up to the LibreOffice community how to achieve that consistency. == Are there any severe objections and concerns (please no beauty corrections, only severe changes), or can we start the SC vote? Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] decision on screenshots
Hi :) +1 Possibly omit the middle paragraph. It would leave the statement without an explanation but at least it would state what the preference is. Regards from Tom :) From: Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org Sent: Fri, 12 August, 2011 10:00:01 Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] decision on screenshots Hi, based on the feedback, this would be my proposal to vote on: == Screenshots for documentation, website and marketing should preferably be taken on GNU/Linux, but may also be taken on any other operating system. The Steering Committee acknowledges that there is a small legal risk involved for screenshots on non-free operating systems, but it feels that the legal risk involved is no greater than other theoretical risk free software projects face. The Steering Committee recommends a consistent visual appearance (e.g. theming and branding) for the screenshots taken on the selected operating system. It is up to the LibreOffice community how to achieve that consistency. == Are there any severe objections and concerns (please no beauty corrections, only severe changes), or can we start the SC vote? Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] decision on screenshots
+1 2011/8/12 Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk Hi :) +1 Possibly omit the middle paragraph. It would leave the statement without an explanation but at least it would state what the preference is. Regards from Tom :) From: Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org Sent: Fri, 12 August, 2011 10:00:01 Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] decision on screenshots Hi, based on the feedback, this would be my proposal to vote on: == Screenshots for documentation, website and marketing should preferably be taken on GNU/Linux, but may also be taken on any other operating system. The Steering Committee acknowledges that there is a small legal risk involved for screenshots on non-free operating systems, but it feels that the legal risk involved is no greater than other theoretical risk free software projects face. The Steering Committee recommends a consistent visual appearance (e.g. theming and branding) for the screenshots taken on the selected operating system. It is up to the LibreOffice community how to achieve that consistency. == Are there any severe objections and concerns (please no beauty corrections, only severe changes), or can we start the SC vote? Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Para que as pessoas conquistem a paz em suas relações, a paz espiritual e a paz entre os povos, é preciso que antes se ganhe a batalha interna das virtudes sobre os defeitos - Talal Husseini - Filósofo Acropolitano For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] List discussion purpose
Hi, Paulo de Souza Lima wrote on 2011-08-12 14:09: I do agree to what Charles said, but I have some things to say on that: There should have a public note, somewhere, explaining that private lists do exist and showing the requirements for a member to be accepted in those lists. What I think is doubtful is maintaining hidden lists. Note: In my view,*private* lists are different from*hidden* lists. I think it has been discussed in public rather often that there is a private list where all the steering committee members are on, and that there are private phone calls sometimes. We never planned to have things in secret, so sorry if that impression has grown. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] decision on screenshots
Hi Florian, On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 12:00 PM, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote: based on the feedback, this would be my proposal to vote on: I suppose the minor corrections below fall in the category of the beauty corrections you mentioned, but the SC's decision might be clearer for some people if the grammar is perfect. FWIW, I'd agree with Tom and Paulo that the second para (The Steering Committee acknowledges that there is...) serves no purpose. So that would give: Screenshots for documentation, website and marketing should preferably be taken on GNU/Linux, but may also be taken on any other operating system. The Steering Committee recommends a consistent visual appearance (e.g. theming and branding) for the screenshots taken on the selected operating system. It is up to the LibreOffice community how to achieve that consistency. HTH. -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] List discussion purpose
Hi Florian, On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote: I think it has been discussed in public rather often that there is a private list where all the steering committee members are on, and that there are private phone calls sometimes. We never planned to have things in secret, so sorry if that impression has grown. Perhaps it would be good to list the private mailing lists existing, so that interested people can send a request to a relevant human being for a subscription. Otherwise, some people might never learn that they even exist. After discussion threads on private MLs and after private calls held by the SC and/or relevant project teams (such as the sysadmins), perhaps it might be a solution to publish an advisory on the tdf-discuss list explaining as much as possible about the subject of the call/thread, and as much as possible about the results of the discussions? That way, at least people would be informed that they have taken place, rather than the community possible being totally unaware of such communication. -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] List discussion purpose
2011/8/12 Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Hi, snip I think it has been discussed in public rather often that there is a private list where all the steering committee members are on, and that there are private phone calls sometimes. We never planned to have things in secret, so sorry if that impression has grown. Florian Hi Florian, I understand that. My feeling is that things are becoming clearer and clearer, and this discussion is very healthy =) I'm not saying that there are things done in secret. I am just trying to say that, if some privacy is needed (and I do agree with that), at least the access to the private discussions should have some rules. First to give access to the issue's stakeholders. Second to remain private despite the free access for stakeholders. Maybe access should be given for a limited time, based in threads, or whatever. I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear, am I? Sorry, if not. =) -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org** Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] List discussion purpose
2011/8/12 David Nelson li...@traduction.biz Hi Florian, On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote: I think it has been discussed in public rather often that there is a private list where all the steering committee members are on, and that there are private phone calls sometimes. We never planned to have things in secret, so sorry if that impression has grown. Perhaps it would be good to list the private mailing lists existing, so that interested people can send a request to a relevant human being for a subscription. Otherwise, some people might never learn that they even exist. After discussion threads on private MLs and after private calls held by the SC and/or relevant project teams (such as the sysadmins), perhaps it might be a solution to publish an advisory on the tdf-discuss list explaining as much as possible about the subject of the call/thread, and as much as possible about the results of the discussions? That way, at least people would be informed that they have taken place, rather than the community possible being totally unaware of such communication. I don't see any problems in private mailing lists if they are listed somewhere and the rules to be included in them are public, fair and clear. -- David Nelson Cheers -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Para que as pessoas conquistem a paz em suas relações, a paz espiritual e a paz entre os povos, é preciso que antes se ganhe a batalha interna das virtudes sobre os defeitos - Talal Husseini - Filósofo Acropolitano For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] List discussion purpose
Hi :) +1 Also, allowing threads (such as the one about job-description for marketing contacts) to split out to other, more relevant, lists is great and seems to be working fine. It's inevitable that discussions take place all over the place because there is a lot of energy and excitement in TDF and about LibreOffice. Inevitably that is going to ruffle some feathers but it's not necessarily a bad thing. This sort of discussion to un-ruffle accidental issues usually goes well here too. It's fairly clear there is no deliberate hiding going on and clearly no-one here has bad intentions. Regards from Tom :) From: Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org Sent: Fri, 12 August, 2011 15:27:28 Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] List discussion purpose 2011/8/12 David Nelson li...@traduction.biz Hi Florian, On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote: I think it has been discussed in public rather often that there is a private list where all the steering committee members are on, and that there are private phone calls sometimes. We never planned to have things in secret, so sorry if that impression has grown. Perhaps it would be good to list the private mailing lists existing, so that interested people can send a request to a relevant human being for a subscription. Otherwise, some people might never learn that they even exist. After discussion threads on private MLs and after private calls held by the SC and/or relevant project teams (such as the sysadmins), perhaps it might be a solution to publish an advisory on the tdf-discuss list explaining as much as possible about the subject of the call/thread, and as much as possible about the results of the discussions? That way, at least people would be informed that they have taken place, rather than the community possible being totally unaware of such communication. I don't see any problems in private mailing lists if they are listed somewhere and the rules to be included in them are public, fair and clear. -- David Nelson Cheers -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Para que as pessoas conquistem a paz em suas relações, a paz espiritual e a paz entre os povos, é preciso que antes se ganhe a batalha interna das virtudes sobre os defeitos - Talal Husseini - Filósofo Acropolitano For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] decision on screenshots
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 6:34 AM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) +1 Possibly omit the middle paragraph. I agree with that. The second paragraph serve no practical purpose. Norbert -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[steering-discuss] contracting a lawyer for the foundation's set-up process
Hello, as many of you know, we're right before filing the application for legally setting up the Foundation. For the process of filing, it is highly advisable to have a lawyer assisting us and acting as official point of contact. Not only will some legal topics come up, but also being represented by a lawyer greatly helps in being perceived as serious entity by the authorities. Among the lawyer's tasks there will be the communication with the authorities, acting on legal questions, and preparing the filing documents in a way they fit the legal requirements. Unfortunately, German law makes it very complicated for lawyers to act pro bono on these kinds of things (which is different to e.g. the US), so we plan to officially contract a lawyer to assist us. In order to have legal advice for the process, which might take a few weeks, I'd like to ask the steering committee to approve a sum of 3.000,- € in total. This is the sum one of our preferred lawyers has mentioned to us, and given that several hours of work for professional services have to be invested, I consider that amount very well spent. Depending on the lawyer and the services used, hourly rates of about 50-150 € are fairly normal in Germany, and I expect the process to take a few hours of time to be completed, especially given the speciality with the membership we have come up with. Thoughts welcome. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] List discussion purpose
Hi, yep, your list is correct. Some details: Charles-H. Schulz wrote on 2011-08-12 16:20: SC private Contains of steering committee plus deputies, plus a few people who have been involved in the discussion of setting up a foundation, even before TDF was born. Recipient list should be re-defined by the new board of directors then, it's their decision who should stay on the list and who shouldn't. AB private Contains advisory board representatives, plus all the steering committee members and deputies. Web infrastructure Contains all the administrators (everyone who has root access, that is). Security Contains LibreOffice developers, and representatives of various distributions. Marketing private (for pr drafting and readiness) Currently has a list of local team representatives, we're right in the process of setting up a marketing network to determine/add recipients. I would not propose to add these lists to our main mailing list page - I am not too keen of revealing the URLs and aliases, even if they are password protected. However, if someone wants to add the lists to a wiki page, feel free to do so. Hope that helps, Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] List discussion purpose
On Fri, 2011-08-12 at 17:48 +0200, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi, yep, your list is correct. Is it exhaustive? Tanks, Drew Some details: Charles-H. Schulz wrote on 2011-08-12 16:20: SC private Contains of steering committee plus deputies, plus a few people who have been involved in the discussion of setting up a foundation, even before TDF was born. Recipient list should be re-defined by the new board of directors then, it's their decision who should stay on the list and who shouldn't. AB private Contains advisory board representatives, plus all the steering committee members and deputies. Web infrastructure Contains all the administrators (everyone who has root access, that is). Security Contains LibreOffice developers, and representatives of various distributions. Marketing private (for pr drafting and readiness) Currently has a list of local team representatives, we're right in the process of setting up a marketing network to determine/add recipients. I would not propose to add these lists to our main mailing list page - I am not too keen of revealing the URLs and aliases, even if they are password protected. However, if someone wants to add the lists to a wiki page, feel free to do so. Hope that helps, Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] contracting a lawyer for the foundation's set-up process
Hi :) +1 definitely. Regards from Tom :) From: Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org Sent: Fri, 12 August, 2011 16:55:51 Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] contracting a lawyer for the foundation's set-up process A lawyer is indispensable I think, and the fees sound reasonnable . +1 Charles. Le 12 août 2011 17:34, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org a écrit : Hello, as many of you know, we're right before filing the application for legally setting up the Foundation. For the process of filing, it is highly advisable to have a lawyer assisting us and acting as official point of contact. Not only will some legal topics come up, but also being represented by a lawyer greatly helps in being perceived as serious entity by the authorities. Among the lawyer's tasks there will be the communication with the authorities, acting on legal questions, and preparing the filing documents in a way they fit the legal requirements. Unfortunately, German law makes it very complicated for lawyers to act pro bono on these kinds of things (which is different to e.g. the US), so we plan to officially contract a lawyer to assist us. In order to have legal advice for the process, which might take a few weeks, I'd like to ask the steering committee to approve a sum of 3.000,- € in total. This is the sum one of our preferred lawyers has mentioned to us, and given that several hours of work for professional services have to be invested, I consider that amount very well spent. Depending on the lawyer and the services used, hourly rates of about 50-150 € are fairly normal in Germany, and I expect the process to take a few hours of time to be completed, especially given the speciality with the membership we have come up with. Thoughts welcome. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] List discussion purpose
Hi, drew wrote on 2011-08-12 17:52: Is it exhaustive? I just checked the mailing list system. There still is the conference jury mailing list, where all paper submissions are being sent to. Everyone had a chance to join the jury, we made a public call. Jury discussions are not meant to be a secret, but I doubt speakers would like to have their proposals immediately public, as they might contain private data. Then we have some more technical aliases, like for blog notifications, wiki messages, donations notifications, Twitter and identi.ca, as well as IRC, but they are all no mailing lists, just mail aliases for technical messages. In addition, there's an alias for the info@ address (SC+deputies), plus for the legal@ address (SC+deputies). What was missing from the list is the internal discussion list of the membership committee, where the members of the membership committee are on. That's it. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] contracting a lawyer for the foundation's set-up process
+1 David 2011/8/12 Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org A lawyer is indispensable I think, and the fees sound reasonnable . +1 Charles. Le 12 août 2011 17:34, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org a écrit : Hello, as many of you know, we're right before filing the application for legally setting up the Foundation. For the process of filing, it is highly advisable to have a lawyer assisting us and acting as official point of contact. Not only will some legal topics come up, but also being represented by a lawyer greatly helps in being perceived as serious entity by the authorities. Among the lawyer's tasks there will be the communication with the authorities, acting on legal questions, and preparing the filing documents in a way they fit the legal requirements. Unfortunately, German law makes it very complicated for lawyers to act pro bono on these kinds of things (which is different to e.g. the US), so we plan to officially contract a lawyer to assist us. In order to have legal advice for the process, which might take a few weeks, I'd like to ask the steering committee to approve a sum of 3.000,- € in total. This is the sum one of our preferred lawyers has mentioned to us, and given that several hours of work for professional services have to be invested, I consider that amount very well spent. Depending on the lawyer and the services used, hourly rates of about 50-150 € are fairly normal in Germany, and I expect the process to take a few hours of time to be completed, especially given the speciality with the membership we have come up with. Thoughts welcome. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] decision on screenshots
On 12 Aug 2011, at 14:48, David Nelson wrote: Hi Florian, On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 12:00 PM, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote: based on the feedback, this would be my proposal to vote on: I suppose the minor corrections below fall in the category of the beauty corrections you mentioned, but the SC's decision might be clearer for some people if the grammar is perfect. FWIW, I'd agree with Tom and Paulo that the second para (The Steering Committee acknowledges that there is...) serves no purpose. So that would give: Screenshots for documentation, website and marketing should preferably be taken on GNU/Linux, but may also be taken on any other operating system. The Steering Committee recommends a consistent visual appearance (e.g. theming and branding) for the screenshots taken on the selected operating system. It is up to the LibreOffice community how to achieve that consistency. I'm amused that the point I was making has been taken on board silently; naturally I agree :-) S. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] contracting a lawyer for the foundation's set-up process
I'm not sure if I'm able to vote on this matter. But if so, +1 2011/8/12 David Emmerich Jourdain jourd...@gmx.de +1 David 2011/8/12 Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org A lawyer is indispensable I think, and the fees sound reasonnable . +1 Charles. Le 12 août 2011 17:34, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org a écrit : Hello, as many of you know, we're right before filing the application for legally setting up the Foundation. For the process of filing, it is highly advisable to have a lawyer assisting us and acting as official point of contact. Not only will some legal topics come up, but also being represented by a lawyer greatly helps in being perceived as serious entity by the authorities. Among the lawyer's tasks there will be the communication with the authorities, acting on legal questions, and preparing the filing documents in a way they fit the legal requirements. Unfortunately, German law makes it very complicated for lawyers to act pro bono on these kinds of things (which is different to e.g. the US), so we plan to officially contract a lawyer to assist us. In order to have legal advice for the process, which might take a few weeks, I'd like to ask the steering committee to approve a sum of 3.000,- € in total. This is the sum one of our preferred lawyers has mentioned to us, and given that several hours of work for professional services have to be invested, I consider that amount very well spent. Depending on the lawyer and the services used, hourly rates of about 50-150 € are fairly normal in Germany, and I expect the process to take a few hours of time to be completed, especially given the speciality with the membership we have come up with. Thoughts welcome. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Para que as pessoas conquistem a paz em suas relações, a paz espiritual e a paz entre os povos, é preciso que antes se ganhe a batalha interna das virtudes sobre os defeitos - Talal Husseini - Filósofo Acropolitano For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] List discussion purpose
2011/8/12 drew d...@baseanswers.com On Fri, 2011-08-12 at 18:08 +0200, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi, drew wrote on 2011-08-12 17:52: Is it exhaustive? I just checked the mailing list system. There still is the conference jury mailing list, where all paper submissions are being sent to. Everyone had a chance to join the jury, we made a public call. Jury discussions are not meant to be a secret, but I doubt speakers would like to have their proposals immediately public, as they might contain private data. Paulo alluded to this type - situational, or what I call one-off, one-time, use. snip What was missing from the list is the internal discussion list of the membership committee, where the members of the membership committee are on. Right - that was one other that came to my mind, wasn't sure though. Alright - referring to another email, since I poked the nest I'll take the task of creating a wiki page - no URLs. Thank you Drew. Best, Charles. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy
On 12 Aug 2011, at 10:02, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi, Caolan McNamara wrote on 2011-08-11 12:26: Alright, swap the logos, default to non TDF one. if we do so, are there any objections to my proposed trademark policy change? Here it is again for convenience: old version: == Proper Form: TDF marks should be used in their exact form, neither abbreviated nor combined with any other word or words. TDF has a set of acceptable logos for general use. If you are not sure where they are please inquire on our lists. Only the logos that bear the exact mention of the software name with the mention “The Document Foundation” are reserved for the sole and official use of TDF as an entity, for instance on splash screens from software builds compiled by the Document Foundation or DVD labels officially stemming from the Document Foundation. You may not use this set of logos but only the logos bearing the software name without the Document Foundation's mention. == new version: == Proper Form: TDF marks should be used in their exact form, neither abbreviated nor combined with any other word or words. TDF has a set of acceptable logos for general use. If you are not sure where they are please inquire on our lists. The logos that bear the exact mention of the software name with the mention The Document Foundation are reserved for two purposes: * the sole and official use of TDF as an entity, for instance on splash screens from software builds compiled by the Document Foundation or on official materials from the legal entity itself * the use within the Projects of the Community - like documentation, marketing or website - when the respective work is prepared and coordinated openly and transparently, on the appropriate communication channels, following the Foundation's and Community's principles /Example: A publisher working on a documentation with a few selected community members is not eligible for use of logos with the mention The Document Foundation, whereas the documentation team itself may freely use it for any project that is coordinated on its mailing lists. You may not use this set of logos for other than the above purposes, but only the logos bearing the software name without the Document Foundation's mention. == I think this is the correct approach and believe that it will avoid the problems that led to the IceWeasel fork of Firefox. S. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] contracting a lawyer for the foundation's set-up process
+1 Best Regards Varun On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 6:04 AM, Thorsten Behrens t...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Florian Effenberger wrote: In order to have legal advice for the process, which might take a few weeks, I'd like to ask the steering committee to approve a sum of 3.000,- € in total. +1 - this has my approval. Cheers, -- Thorsten -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] contracting a lawyer for the foundation's set-up process
Good night! I understand that is a decision of the SC, but I will give my opinion. Totally agree Best regards. Eliane Domingos de Sousa gtalk/skype: elianedomingos twitter: eliane_domingos identica/facebook: elianedomingos Em 12-08-2011 22:31, Varun Mittal escreveu: +1 Best Regards Varun On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 6:04 AM, Thorsten Behrens t...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Florian Effenberger wrote: In order to have legal advice for the process, which might take a few weeks, I'd like to ask the steering committee to approve a sum of 3.000,- € in total. +1 - this has my approval. Cheers, -- Thorsten -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
