Flame Warriors!
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame1.html A broad (and pretty funny) categorization of the assorted net discussion group personality archetypes. I'm scared to think which ones people might fit me under. :-) -bryon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Contraception
Julia Thompson wrote: NFP can definitely be useful for spacing children. (An airlock leading to vacuum is also useful for spacing them in a thoroughly different sense.) But repeating the procedure would be a problem after a while. ;o) Sonja :o) GCU Satisfying silence ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: free trade and the balance of trade problem
On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 10:05:12PM -0500, Dan Minette wrote: On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 12:59:54PM -0500, Dan Minette wrote: Erik wrote: I think it is more accurate to say that certificates (bonds, stock certificates, IOU's, etc) flow out, not money. The trade deficit is financed by foreign investment in the US -- most recently by countries like Japan and China buying US bonds, and before that by foreigners buying US equities. I know that happens; I'm just looking at seperating the parts. There are a lot of dollars floating around the world; dollars is the currency of convenience. A worthwhile place to invest those dollars is in the US national debt, or stock, as you said. But, that investment isn't permanant; stocks and bonds are bought and sold. Huh? Strange argument. Money even more so. Money is made for buying and selling! As for separating the parts, that is exactly what I was doing. Certainly one accounts for the dollar value of all the stocks and bonds going to finance the trade deficit, but that is just accounting, it doesn't mean that hard currency is what is actually doing the job. If the Fed were printing money as the primary way to finance the trade deficit, the dollar would be hugely devalued, much more so than it has been (if you don't believe me, check the money supply vs. the cumulative trade deficit). To see what is really happening, you need to classify that aggregate dollar number into its most important parts, as I did. Once you know what is actually financing the deficit (which is often looked at as the twin deficits of the budget deficit and the current account deficit), then you can see what is going on. Capital is actually flowing INTO the US to finance the deficit. The current account deficit is equal to the difference between domestic saving and domestic investment. Since Americans (including citizens, corporations, and the government) aren't saving enough to pay for our current level of investment, we run a current account deficit and a budget deficit, which is financed by investment from foreigners (who definitely do not want to hold actual dollars, since the dollar is still widely believed to be heading for more falls). The foreign investors demand some compensation for holding dollar denominated assets, and this is mostly in the form of dividends, capital gains, and interest, which you don't get by holding hard currency. (The biggest part of the current accounts is trade in goods and services, so I am using it interchangably with the trade deficit which you seem most interested in) It seems, at some point, that the surplus of dollars might trigger a panic. At some point, US bonds do not look like a good investment because intrest rates are going up and stocks are not doing well. Actually, interest rates (real rates) going up will tend to strengthen the dollar. But if nominal rates go up because of inflation while real rates do not, then yes, the dollar looks much less attractive. Most people aren't worried about inflation now (although Hussman is an exception, www.hussman.net) -- the difference between 10 year TIPS and 10 year treasury yields is about 2.5%, so the market expects low inflation over the next 10 years. When folks want to get out of dollars, they find there is much less demand for dollars all of a sudden. Markets can overreact, as we all know. Yes, but the dollar is a substitute world currency. Martin Wolf has been writing about this for a few weeks in the Financial Times (if you sign up and cancel within 14 days, you can read it for free). Basically, many countries despearately want to have dollar reserves to stabilize their economy and because the US is the only one consuming much in the world, so if the other countries with lots of unemployed (China, etc.) want to grow, they need to sell to the US and get paid in dollars. What are their alternatives? The Euro, maybe, but I can't see them wholesale switching from the dollar to the yen, franc, or pound. So it doesn't seem likely there will be a stampede for the exit door, because no one knows where the exit door is! Most likely there will be a slow devaluing of the dollar as some reserves flow into euros, but until a new big consumption country takes over from the US in pulling the world economy, then where are the reserves going to go but dollars? I'd very much appreciate that. One thing I keep recalling from history are those countries that obtain a massive foreign debt often spend a lot of money paying it off. The US is nowhere near that point, but it could definately have an effect; and I'm wondering how it would manifest. I'll look for it tonight. I wonder what the net assets of the US are. I've looked for that number, but it is not as easy a number to obtain as GDP or trade imbalance. Maybe I should look again. I've seen that number, but I can't remember where. I'll look for that when I get a chance. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/
Re: Brin: Format Reinstall
On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 02:53:49AM +, Alberto Monteiro wrote: David Brin wrote: Worse. They get the kernel for free (Thanks you stupid western fools!) Then they copyright a VARIANT and call it SINUX. You CAN copyright a variant. I think this goes against the GNU license. Right. It is illegal in most Western countries, including all of the US and Europe. A copyright such as this in China is hardly worth the paper it is printed on. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Contraception
At 03:00 AM Thursday 8/12/04, Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: Julia Thompson wrote: NFP can definitely be useful for spacing children. (An airlock leading to vacuum is also useful for spacing them in a thoroughly different sense.) But repeating the procedure would be a problem after a while. ;o) Not for a good while. There's a whole lotta vacuum out there, and it would take a while to fill it up with annoying rug rats . . . -- Ronn! :) Earth is the cradle of humanity, but one cannot remain in the cradle forever. -- Konstantin E. Tsiolkovskiy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Contraception
(at 11:56, 11/08/2004, Wednesday GMT +1) Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 03:00 AM Thursday 8/12/04, Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: (which is 10:00, 12/08/2004, Thursday GMT +1) Julia Thompson wrote: NFP can definitely be useful for spacing children. (An airlock leading to vacuum is also useful for spacing them in a thoroughly different sense.) But repeating the procedure would be a problem after a while. ;o) Not for a good while. There's a whole lotta vacuum out there, and it would take a while to fill it up with annoying rug rats . . . Gotcha! Admit it, we have a time traveller in our midst. ;o) Right? bg Ronn, care to share how your trip in the time machine went? ;o) Sonja ;o) GCU: Date off by one ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Fight The Future: Encrypted Screws
Davd Brin wrote: I want to move a DOT using a simple mathematicall algorithm. I have examples in books. Why can I not show this to my son? It is EXACTLY what Bill Gates and Steve Jobs and Wozniak did. I still have at least one, possibly two, PC-8201A portable computers, which have a BASIC implementation that was the last piece of code Bill Gates worked on. They have 8K of memory, a four or six-line display and you use a tape recorder to save your programs... but I think they still work. Would something like that do it? You might also look for an emulator of such a machine. There are emulators for all sorts of old systems around. I was just reading the other day about a PDP-11 emulator, which would run BASIC as you describe, once you got past the OS. I think I still remember a bit of RSTS and TOPS-10... Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Fight The Future: Encrypted Screws
Nick Arnett wrote: I still have at least one, possibly two, PC-8201A portable computers, which have a BASIC implementation that was the last piece of code Bill Gates worked on. They have 8K of memory, a four or six-line display and you use a tape recorder to save your programs... but I think they still work. Would something like that do it? A page about them: http://www.web8201.com/ I guess they have 16K... and I think I have one or two 8K expansion modules. IIRC, 8K of memory cost about $150 when I bought it! Here's a multi-system simulator: http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Fight The Future: Encrypted Screws
From: Davd Brin [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are many freely and easily available compilers in many languages so this doesn't really disturb me. I've heard Yet Another Basic is good (though I haven't used it myself): http://www.yabasic.de/ I shall try ybasic, thanks. But after the horror of trying xbasic and qbasic and all the others, I do not expect much success. All were created by techies who suffer from techie-disease... an absolute assumption that everyboddy who downloads their compiler will instantly and miraculously know how to use it. The manuals are gibberish. There is nothing at all resembling a simple place to write line by line code and simply typr run. Visual basic does everything you describe except 'run', because modern interpreters are not essentially acting as a command line operating system, they just interpret code. The way VB does it is better: it's simpler, it's more intuitive, and it work the way 99% of all modern programming environments work. You push a VCR button (play) to run, pause, or stop code execution. The same way a...VCR works. The same way most electronic devices work. frustration. I already know BASIC. Doesn't sound like it. I have books. I have a zillion sample programs that are EXACTLY what I want to teach. Logo looks nice but I do not have the time to learn another language and it definitely looks higher than the algorithm-based level that I have wanted to show to my son. I want Z=2x, x=1, print Z. 2x doesn't mean anything in basic, you want instead 2*x, as * is the multiplication operator. You want to use : to separate statements. What about this code: Z=2*x: x=1: print Z OR (a better version): Z=2*x x=1 print Z does not work in VB or QB? 'Print Z' will print z on the current form. However it is possible to view all variables in the program at the same time in the interpreter instead. This will print 0 on the current form (2 * 0). 'Debug.Print Z' will print z to the 'immediate window'. You can even type 'Z=2*x: x=1: print Z' into the immediate window on a paused running program and it will do the same thing. In fact you can get pretty much unlimited amounts of free VB help at the Usenet newsgroup: microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Republicans Vs Science: Condom Wars
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/31/news-ireland.php Condom Wars New guidelines gut HIV prevention and endanger young people's lives by Doug Ireland Lethal new regulations from President Bush's Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in Atlanta, quietly issued with no fanfare last week, complete the right-wing Republicans' goal of gutting HIV-prevention education in the United States. In place of effective, disease-preventing safe-sex education, little will soon remain except failed programs that denounce condom use, while teaching abstinence as the only way to prevent the spread of AIDS. And those abstinence-only programs, researchers say, actually increase the risk of contracting AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases (STDs). Published on June 16 in the Federal Register, the censorious new CDC guidelines will be mandatory for any organization that does HIV-prevention work and also receives federal funds whether or not any federal money is directly spent on their programs designed to fight the spread of the epidemic. (The CDC is the principal federal funder of prevention education about HIV and AIDS, and its head a Bush appointee). It's all couched in arcane bureaucratese, but this is the Bush administration's Big Stick do exactly as we say, or lose your federal funding. And nearly all of the some 3,800 AIDS service organizations (ASOs) that do the bulk of HIV-prevention education receive at least part of their budget from federal dollars. Without that money, they'd have to slash programs or even close their doors. These new regs require the censoring of any content including pamphlets, brochures, fliers, curricula, audiovisual materials and pictorials (for example, posters and similar educational materials using photographs, slides, drawings or paintings), as well as and Web-based info. They require all such content to eliminate anything even vaguely sexually suggestive or obscene like teaching how to use a condom correctly by putting it on a dildo, or even a cucumber. And they demand that all such materials include information on the lack of effectiveness of condom use in preventing the spread of HIV and other STDs in other words, the Bush administration wants AIDS fighters to tell people: Condoms don't work. This demented exigency flies in the face of every competent medical body's judgment that, in the absence of an HIV-preventing vaccine, the condom is the single most effective tool available to protect someone from getting or spreading the AIDS virus. Moreover, the CDC will now take the decisions on which AIDS-fighting educational materials actually work away from those on the frontlines of the combat against the epidemic, and hand them over to political appointees. This is done by requiring that Policy Review Panels, which each group engaged in HIV prevention must have, can no longer be appointed by that group but must instead be named by state and local health departments. And those panels must then take a vote on every single flier or brochure or other content before it is issued. This means that, under the new regs, political appointees will have a veto and be able to ban anything in those educational materials they deem obscene or lacking in anti-condom propaganda. With Republicans controlling a majority of statehouses, and having handed over control of the health departments to folks deemed acceptable to the Christian right and cultural conservatives in many Southern and Midwestern states and the rest of public-health departments notoriously subservient to political pressure from the state and local legislatures that control their appropriations anti-condom junk science that plays politics with people's lives will rule the day. Under the new regs, it will be impossible even to track the spread of unsafe sexual practices because the CDC's politically inspired censorship includes questionnaires and survey materials and thus would forbid asking people if they engage in specific sexual acts without protection against HIV. For that too would be obscene. (Questions about gay kids have already disappeared from the CDC's national Youth Risk Survey after Christian-right pressure). So what will be left? Why, the abstinence-only ed programs dear to Bush's heart and to the Christian right. A third of all federal HIV-education money some $270 million more in Bush's latest budget now goes to abstinence-only programs, almost universally to Christian groups as part of Bush's faith-based initiatives (no Jewish or Muslim groups receive any funds). This is a brilliant maneuver Bush has turned money earmarked for fighting AIDS into political pork for his Christer base. Much of this money goes to anti-abortion groups masquerading as women's health or crisis-pregnancy centers. Others receiving such funds engage in religious propaganda a federal judge found that Louisiana's federally funded Governor's Program on Abstinence illegally handed out Bibles, staged
Re: free trade and the balance of trade problem
On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 05:45:45AM -0400, Erik Reuter wrote: I'll look for it tonight. http://www.pbs.org/wsw/news/fortunearticle_20031026_03.html Why I'm not buying the U.S. dollar America's growing trade deficit is selling the nation out from under us. Here's a way to fix the problem -- and we need to do it now. By Warren E. Buffett, FORTUNE Oct. 26, 2003 I'm about to deliver a warning regarding the U.S. trade deficit and also suggest a remedy for the problem. But first I need to mention two reasons you might want to be skeptical about what I say. To begin, my forecasting record with respect to macroeconomics is far from inspiring. For example, over the past two decades I was excessively fearful of inflation. More to the point at hand, I started way back in 1987 to publicly worry about our mounting trade deficits -- and, as you know, we've not only survived but also thrived. So on the trade front, score at least one wolf for me. Nevertheless, I am crying wolf again and this time backing it with Berkshire Hathaway's money. Through the spring of 2002, I had lived nearly 72 years without purchasing a foreign currency. Since then Berkshire has made significant investments in -- and today holds -- several currencies. I won't give you particulars; in fact, it is largely irrelevant which currencies they are. What does matter is the underlying point: To hold other currencies is to believe that the dollar will decline. [Article continues, see link] http://www.pbs.org/wsw/news/fortunearticle_20031026_03.html ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Format Reinstall
Right. It is illegal in most Western countries, including all of the US and Europe. A copyright such as this in China is hardly worth the paper it is printed on. I beg to differ. Asian nations have long learned to interpret intellectual property laws any way they wish. Their range of tricks is enormous and they set things up so that the resulting legal battle would be excruciatingly long and costly for westerners who complain. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Format Reinstall
From: Davd Brin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Right. It is illegal in most Western countries, including all of the US and Europe. A copyright such as this in China is hardly worth the paper it is printed on. I beg to differ. Asian nations have long learned to interpret intellectual property laws any way they wish. Their range of tricks is enormous and they set things up so that the resulting legal battle would be excruciatingly long and costly for westerners who complain. And what would this theory gain them? Do they control Microsoft? Windows? MS-DOS?, Apple? MacOS?, IBM? OS/400? TSO/ISPF/CICS/DOS Other mainframe OS's?, FreeBSD? OpenBSD? NetBSD?, AthenaOS?, BeOS?... The _*REAL*_ enemy is Microsoft Colluding with hardware manufacturers to push Palladium/Trusted Computing DRM on all future hardware. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Flame Warriors!
From: Bryon Daly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Flame Warriors! Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 03:25:29 -0400 http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame1.html Thanks for that. Funny stuff. -Travis _ Take advantage of powerful junk e-mail filters built on patented Microsoft® SmartScreen Technology. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-capage=byoa/premxAPID=1994DI=1034SU=http://hotmail.com/encaHL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Chances of aliens finding Earth disappearing
On Aug 11, 2004, at 7:39 PM, Steve Sloan wrote: An interesting link posted to LarryNiven-L: Chances of aliens finding Earth disappearing http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns6255 You say this like it's a bad thing... We all *know* that the aliens are only interested in eating us. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gorilla asks for HELP!
On Aug 11, 2004, at 7:57 PM, Steve Sloan wrote: Another link from LarryNiven-L, that's even more topical on Brin-L: Gorilla Seeks Help Using Sign Language http://start.earthlink.net/newsarticle? cat=10aid=809022602_5310_lead_story My favorite part of the story: They crowded around her, and Koko, who plays favorites, asked one woman wearing red to come closer. The woman handed her a business card, which Koko promptly ate. What did she think Koko was going to do with it? Call her to schedule a follow-up? Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Br!n: Fight The Future: Encrypted Screws
The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: massive snippage Sensing. Integrated sensors within intelligent fasteners could be programmed to detect, analyze and report urgent problems. As telematics progress, fastener information could be transmitted in real time to service centers, documenting product performance, status, wear and tear, and maintenance procedures. Embedded sensors could signal impending performance failure of critical parts or assemblies based on wear parameters. (Fool: And when a part malfunctions? They could also have parts that 'Expire' after a certain date, no matter whether they work properly or not. And the manufacturer could force you to upgrade whether you want to or not.) Why do I hear Scotty sneering about 'the more complex they make it, the easier it is to gum up the works!'...? ;) Seriously, I - a near-complete car idiot - was nevertheless able to tinker with a few simple parts in my old Dodge Dart's engine, and save myself a repair bill or two; now I can just about change the air filter and add coolant (which I have to buy special from the dealer or an 'authorized' source), but am dependent on specialists for most else... :P (Although I never did want to change the oil myself - let a crew recycle the old for me.) Debbi Exclusively Excelsior Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Format Reinstall
Dr. Brin, It's really much simpler than that. I am a Mac user who reluctantly bought an XP/Vaio horror in order to run games and some other things for the kids. I understand: as a dedicated Mac user since '86 (only my innate cheapness kept me from jumping in in '84), a seven-year Apple employee, and the radical freak who managed to con my management into letting me have a Mac on my desk at both HP and Sun, I eventually broke down and bought a no-name peecee that runs WinXP so I could more easily work in a win-centric environment. For the Mac, there's the fine and free Chipmunk BASIC, which is a real old-fashioned BASIC interpreter that has been around for years and is available for OS X and prior versions (one of the things I continue to admire about the Mac world is that old programs for old OS's seem to stick around longer than over there. I know that I must put up with Windows and our next machine will probably be another of the WinHorrors. But please don't blame me. This group? Blame? Perish the thought. Yes, but I need turn-key usability for programs/games my kids bring home. And plenty of games just don't exist for Linux or Mac. My son is addicted to Hot Wheels, and all of their games (including planethotwheels.com, which is very near the top of his favorite things to do) require windows. But since you (admittedly under duress) have been infected with the virus from Redmond, you might want to check out the following site, which lists *many* compilers and interpreters for BASIC: http://www.freeprogrammingresources.com/basic.html Finally, recognizing that you already know BASIC and want to be able to use that knowledge, please allow me to flog Java a little (as the former publisher of java.sun.com)... There is a very fine Java learning environment called BlueJ (www.bluej.org) with a great book to go with it (Objects First with Java: A Practical Introduction using BlueJ). The BlueJ IDE was developed explicitly to support learning Java by starting with its characteristic object orientation, rather than by starting out by teaching you how to type twenty or thirty lines of indecipherable gibberish in order to make the words Hello, World! appear on the screen. Thanks, Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Every Single Sperm
JDG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alberto Monteiro wrote: JDG wrote: ... and until the scientific discovery of ovum and sperm, there probably wasn't much theological difference between abortion and contraception. I _think_ I read somewhere about roman condoms, made of some animal internal body parts. I don't know how effective they were. And there were anti-conception herbs. Yes, but if you don't know that an ovum and a sperm exists, and rather think of things in terms of seed and soil - it can be easy to imagine why a theological distinction between abortion and contraception never really developed. But the difference exists, in science and the real world. Just as we reject the ancient idea that woman was magic and the only source of new life, so we reject the notion that 'wasting seed' is a sin. Preventing conception _is not_ the same as abortion. What you do with your body in your private life is none of my business. What I do with mine is none of yours. It's rather a non-sequitur, but the notion that a man 'wasting seed'* is a sin, while a woman undergoing 'housecleaning' after non-fertilization of an egg is merely considered 'unclean' and unfit for company, as in Muslim and other faiths, raises a few questions. These old and tired memes need to be mercifully shot down. *Although IIRC the _real_ sin of Onan was not providing his dead brother with a child, by impregnating his brother's wife -- at the time, that was the culturally proper thing for a brother to do. Debbi Nonsense Genes Maru ___ Do you Yahoo!? Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Every Single Sperm
At 03:07 PM Thursday 8/12/04, Deborah Harrell wrote: It's rather a non-sequitur, but the notion that a man 'wasting seed'* is a sin, while a woman undergoing 'housecleaning' after non-fertilization of an egg is merely considered 'unclean' and unfit for company, as in Muslim and other faiths, raises a few questions. Not at all. Does a woman derive physical pleasure from said housecleaning? So much so that she looks forward to doing it again and again and again . . .? -- Ronn! :) Earth is the cradle of humanity, but one cannot remain in the cradle forever. -- Konstantin E. Tsiolkovskiy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [L3] Re: Horses as Prey Animals
I'm just commenting on the parts I found out more about. --- Robert J. Chassell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snippage My friend also said that both dogs and horses are hierarchical, but horses are less hierarchical than dogs. A colleague who raises both dogs and horses thinks that their dominance structures are nearly equal in intensity/importance. Horses have color vision that is different from humans': they see blue and yellow. According to the site I posted in 'more on domestic mammal vision,' it's more the 'greenish-yellow' and 'purply-blue' wavelengths, and occurs in other herding ungulates as well. Is there any evidence that this `just so story' is true? Moreover, while horses enjoy overlapping sight, or binocular vision, they also have a 3 foot blind spot right in front. If you approach a horse in its blind spot, you may startle it. See the vet site on visual fields and blind spots; the article from the 'horseman' magazine referred to the blind spot in front as very small and being more below the horse's head than in front -- which makes more sense to me when you look at eye placement. Nick Arnett said We had a pony who generally trotted straight toward such a branch as soon as anybody got on her. But ponies are small, grumpy versions of horses. grin A friend (who loves her cat dog and my horses) described her childhood Shetland pony as the most evil creature I've ever had the misfortune to encounter! (I have no experience with ponies.) Deborah Harrell developed the thesis: Body language is crucial in communicating both your intentions toward and your expectations of the horse; they are incredibly keen observers of your tiniest move -- A good way to see this: observe a band of horses in a pasture or at feeding time in a corral (they need to have been a stable group for some weeks - a new addition will throw at least part of the ranking in disarray, as the 'newbie' tries to get a position above bottom/omega). You will notice that some horses seem to simply walk up and eat, while others go through biting and kicking motions. The established lead horse will 'magically' walk through the group as if parting the Red Sea; in reality, s/he makes tiny gestures such as a slight chin lift or ears flicking backwards momentarily, or perhaps swishing the tail once. A human handler can use a chin-lift, eyes-narrowing, or head-tip instead (lacking mobile ears and tails, we _are_ a little handicapped in emoting Equinese!). Hope that is helpful. Debbi Floppy-eared And Hip-shot Maru ;) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Every Single Sperm
Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: It's rather a non-sequitur, but the notion that a man 'wasting seed'* is a sin, while a woman undergoing 'housecleaning' after non-fertilization of an egg is merely considered 'unclean' and unfit for company, as in Muslim and other faiths, raises a few questions. Not at all. Does a woman derive physical pleasure from said housecleaning? So much so that she looks forward to doing it again and again and again . . .? S...pleasurable sensations are sinful, while nasty cramping and fever and nausea makes one 'unclean'...? That would make drinking Rich's chocolate decadence concoction sinful, and the morning after 'tying one on' a time of ritual seclusionhmmm, I'll have to think about that... Debbi STEP AWAY FROM THE CHOCOLATE! Maru;D __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Every Single Sperm
At 03:41 PM Thursday 8/12/04, Deborah Harrell wrote: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: It's rather a non-sequitur, but the notion that a man 'wasting seed'* is a sin, while a woman undergoing 'housecleaning' after non-fertilization of an egg is merely considered 'unclean' and unfit for company, as in Muslim and other faiths, raises a few questions. Not at all. Does a woman derive physical pleasure from said housecleaning? So much so that she looks forward to doing it again and again and again . . .? S...pleasurable sensations are sinful, Sure. The worry is that someone, somewhere might be having fun. Can't have that. while nasty cramping and fever and nausea makes one 'unclean'...? No. That's just the natural consequences for being born as part of the inferior sex. Or maybe punishment for the first of your kind listening to the snake and causing Adam to fall. -- Ronn! :) Earth is the cradle of humanity, but one cannot remain in the cradle forever. -- Konstantin E. Tsiolkovskiy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Olympics::Soccer: Iraq V Portugal [R]
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/olympics/2004/08/12/bc.eu.spt.oly.soc.iraq.portugal.ap/index.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympics_2004/football/3560424.stm *crossing fingers, hoping that TiVo picked it up on my soccer keyword wishlist* __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Br!n: Fight The Future: Encrypted Screws
From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Br!n: Fight The Future: Encrypted Screws Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Debbi Exclusively Excelsior Maru Bucket of bolts! -Travis Miracle worker Edmunds _ Take charge with a pop-up guard built on patented Microsoft® SmartScreen Technology http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-capage=byoa/premxAPID=1994DI=1034SU=http://hotmail.com/encaHL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Every Single Sperm
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 03:07 PM Thursday 8/12/04, Deborah Harrell wrote: It's rather a non-sequitur, but the notion that a man 'wasting seed'* is a sin, while a woman undergoing 'housecleaning' after non-fertilization of an egg is merely considered 'unclean' and unfit for company, as in Muslim and other faiths, raises a few questions. Not at all. Does a woman derive physical pleasure from said housecleaning? So much so that she looks forward to doing it again and again and again . . .? Well, I'd much rather do it again and again than be pregnant with twins again anytime soon Julia although the prophecy said the 3rd batch would be triplets, so I'm *extremely* grateful to be putting up with the housecleaning on a regular basis ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Fight The Future: Encrypted Screws
The Fool wrote: From: Davd Brin [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are many freely and easily available compilers in many languages so this doesn't really disturb me. I've heard Yet Another Basic is good (though I haven't used it myself): http://www.yabasic.de/ I shall try ybasic, thanks. But after the horror of trying xbasic and qbasic and all the others, I do not expect much success. All were created by techies who suffer from techie-disease... an absolute assumption that everyboddy who downloads their compiler will instantly and miraculously know how to use it. The manuals are gibberish. There is nothing at all resembling a simple place to write line by line code and simply typr run. Visual basic does everything you describe except 'run', because modern interpreters are not essentially acting as a command line operating system, they just interpret code. The way VB does it is better: it's simpler, it's more intuitive, and it work the way 99% of all modern programming environments work. You push a VCR button (play) to run, pause, or stop code execution. The same way a...VCR works. The same way most electronic devices work. Yeah, well, some people took to command lines, and are a lot happier using command lines than GUIs. I realize such people are in the minority, but if you don't understand that there is such a minority and that they get frustrated with GUIs because the command line is just a lot more *logical* (but maybe less intuitive for the majority) and that they operate more on logic than intuition, you're going to make them unhappy by dismissing their preferences. Sort of like the car dealer who totally lost the sale with my mother when she expressed a preference for a manual transmission (she has never, ever, ever driven an automatic, narrowly dodging *that* bullet last summer) and responded to her with a smile, saying, Oh, most women really prefer an automatic, as if what SHE, the individual, wanted and didn't want was totally beside the point. (Figure out where people's lines are drawn, and don't cross them. DB has laid out the location of his line, and you're trying to push him to the other side of it when he just won't go there.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [L3 ] Re: Jesus-anity and the status of women
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:18:27 +0100, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10 Aug 2004, at 8:02 pm, Travis Edmunds wrote: However you seem to have proved me wrong. It's nice you can admit that. There are some people on this list who would argue black was white rather than admit they were mistaken about anything... And then some of *them* will promptly get killed at the next zebra crossing, right? Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Format Reinstall
Stunned. I am simply stunned. After two years, Dave Land has come to the rescue with Chipmunk Basic for the Macintosh. I will not jiunx myself with overconfidence. But at first glance it is everything I was looking for in a simple BASIC interpreter that works turnkey, accompanied by a tutorial that was written for human brains. Dave, write to me separately with your address and please let me send you some book plates stuff. And yes, it WOULD wind up being on the Mac. Thanks again. With cordial regards, David Brin www.davidbrin.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Format Reinstall
David Brin wrote: Stunned. I am simply stunned. After two years, Dave Land has come to the rescue with Chipmunk Basic for the Macintosh. Never underestimate the Power of Your Legions of Terror! Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
[L3] RE: Indivisible (was: Karmic slappage)
Travis Edmunds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Travis Edmunds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] snippage throughout There probably is either hypocrisy or a serious case of 'the masses can't understand this complexity, therefore we will teach them black and white...' Is that not hypocritical by nature? If done scornfully - stupid idiot sheep! - it is hypocritical. If done caringly - snip ...so we must simplify and make it understandable - it is at least arrogant, but not inherently malign. First of all, I'm not sure if hypocrisy is inherently malign. Are you? One can be a hypocrite without actually knowing it I don't think so, since insincerity and the practice of professing beliefs, feelings or virtues that one does not hold or possess is how my desk dictionary defines 'hypocrisy.' That seems to show ill intent to me, although if one does it to survive (i.e. your life or your livelihood depend on your convincing somebody that you believe in IPUs), I wouldn't necessarily call it malign. One can profess beliefs that are known to others to be false, yet because of one's ignorance one is not being hypocritical, merely misinformed or deluded. ...But in the administration simplifying the 'mysteries'...of God...to the public, and concurrently approaching those same mysteries themselves as something that is deeply intricate, lies the very nature of hypocrisy. And it doesn't matter if it's done scornfully or arrogantly, or if one believes that hypocrisy is inherently malign...Who is more worthy to know and contemplate the mysteries of God? Who gets to commune with the Almighty? Good questions, and I think one of the major differences between Catholic/Orthodox and Protestant splitting. But if any layperson who wants to (and can afford the time) is allowed to study these intricacies, your latter queries are answered. I do not assign malign intent to all or even most upper echelon members in simplifying 'what a difference an iota makes,' as I would not blame my car mechanic for saying 'your axle is too worn and needs replacing' rather than 'your CV joint lacked lubrication because the casing was cracked, and the resultant erosion of the gearing mechanism has damaged the axle beyond repair' -- unless I asked for a more detailed explanation and he would not give it to me. It takes time and study to understand how to diagnose and fix car problems; it isn't that I'm not capable of understanding/learning how to rebuild a car from the ground up, but I don't have the time or the inclination. (Of course, that _does_ leave me open to exploitation by unscrupulous mechanics -- so I use one recommended by several friends, one of whose husband _is_ a car buff and knows enough to be able to spot fraudulent charges.) Nowthere still exists a hierarchal structure in the administration of the religion where people delve deeper into 'God' than any layperson practitioner of the faith. I would say that this in itself is hypocritical We disagree; although there is no question that it _is_ open to corruption/exploitation. That is why I think that if a layperson has access to whatever literature priests have, there is less likelihood of that occurring. Similarly, anyone can get into PubMed and read abstracts of studies, just as physicians do; I cannot 'safely' tout the miracle-cure of horsebackriding for gout, because there is no published literature to back up my claim, and sooner or later _somebody_ will nail me on that claim. Of course another question remains - is a little hypocrisy perhaps needed in order to keep the machine running smoothly? Ah, the Little White Lie hypothesis. That's been debated a bit here; I confess to using that judiciously (frex one friend is a fan of Westie terriers; I don't like any dog smaller than my cats, so when she says that she feels safe with them about, I acknowledge that little gets by them unnoticed - which is true, and seems complimentary, but I _did not_ say that I wished I had one, or ever intend to get one, or would like to come over and play with her dogs. Since I did not ask more questions about them, or use inquisitive/enthusiastic body language, she does not discuss them further at that time; she's content that her babies are accounted useful (but is aware that I wasn't interested in hearing more), I'm content that my friend enjoys her little pals, and we both walk away having had a pleasant interchange. It's kind of like a business deal: neither gets precisely what she wants (to talk extensively about her darlings vs. not hearing a word about them), but the currency of friendship (communication) has been exchanged successfully. Now when we talk about horses, which we both love, we can happily go on for _hours_, with complete mutual satisfaction. But as interesting as I find the premise of - 'many people might
Re: Brin: Format Reinstall
Davd Brin wrote: Dave, write to me separately with your address and please let me send you some book plates stuff. Dave works at my house and solved this problem on company time, so send it here. ;-) Seriously, though, Dave is planning a trip to Legoland in a couple of weeks, so perhaps he could pick them up in person and say hi. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Every Single Sperm
Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: while nasty cramping and fever and nausea makes one 'unclean'... No. That's just the natural consequences for being born as part of the inferior sex. Or maybe punishment for the first of your kind listening to the snake and causing Adam to fall. shaking gourd full of sesame seeds and chanting Oh, misguided oppressor of the fruiting body! May you realize the errors of your constipated mind and cleanse it of such putrescent fecal matter! The Lead Mare Of Clan Karkadan Advises A Hefty Dose Of Metamucil - With Prune Juice Maru ;} __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Brin: BASIC, etc
Erik Reuter wrote: On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 03:28:52PM -0700, Davd Brin wrote: I think you all miss the point. I think YOU miss the point. As I said, you can get BASIC on Linux if you insist (actually, I just spent 30 seconds looking at Debian packages and Debian has 2 free choices: Bywater BASIC Interpreter and Yet Another BASIC interpreter). The point was that there are better languages to learn. Python is an ideal first language -- it can be as simple as BASIC if you like, but it has room to grow and doesn't start you with bad habits. And if you know any programming, you could pick up 50% of Python in an hour (the stuff that it sounds like you want) and then teach your child a really useful language. David-- I would argue that one doesn't just know BASIC, one knows how to program. I never quite remember the syntax of a language unless I am actively using it, and have to puzzle it out as I go. Not a problem. There are some good programming techniques that weren't used much in old-style BASIC, such as writing code in a modular fashion (using procedures and/or functions). I'd suggest getting a more modern language. (Really!) It's always possible to write old-style programs full of goto statements, in just about any language. But why not have the possibility to do more, in case it is ever desired? LOGO was recommended before. I second that! It makes an excellent first language for children. Something as simple as forward 100 gets results--the turtle moves forward on the screen. Learning to write loops has an immediate payback in terms of what one can do, as does learning to use procedures. ---David Hobby Well, I tried... : ) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Chances of aliens finding Earth disappearing
On Aug 12, 2004, at 2:22 PM, Travis Edmunds wrote: We all *know* that the aliens are only interested in eating us. I thought they just wanted to harvest our intestines to make condoms... -Travis two sizes - large and small Edmunds Clearly, you've never worked in marketing: there are only two sizes of condoms: large and extra-large. Dave pack of minis, please Land ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Format Reinstall
Seriously, though, Dave is planning a trip to Legoland in a couple of weeks, so perhaps he could pick them up in person and say hi. SOunds fine. I hope you are all doing well. I may be giving a talk in SF October the First. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Format Reinstall
Davd Brin wrote: I will not jiunx myself with overconfidence. But at first glance it is everything I was looking for in a simple BASIC interpreter that works turnkey, accompanied by a tutorial that was written for human brains. You know, don't you, David, that GOTO is considered harmful[1]? Promise you won't let them use GOTO. Please, for the sake of the children. Nick [1] http://www.acm.org/classics/oct95/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Scouted: Envronmental degradation - new disease variant
Excerpts from a study on how deforestation altered one pathogen's 'behavior.' http://usinfo.state.gov/gi/Archive/2004/Aug/04-552969.html It's a medical mystery: Exactly how do emerging viruses such as SARS, HIV and hantavirus suddenly burst forth, seemingly from nowhere, to start infecting people and causing lethal diseases, sometimes in epidemic proportions? In research that shines light on this worrisome phenomenon, a team of scientific sleuths based at the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston (UTMB) has examined and tested viruses from two late-20th-century outbreaks of Venezuelan equine encephalitis (VEE)a deadly illness that can cause brain inflammation in horses and peopleand compared them with a very similar virus that doesn't tend to infect horses or people. The outbreaks occurred in 1993 and 1996 in deforested regions of the Mexican states of Chiapas and Oaxaca. In at least this case, the solution to the mystery is, as Sherlock Holmes might put it, Evolutionary, my dear Watson. The scientists cite evidence suggesting that by replacing forests with ranchland along a 500-mile-long, 20- to 50-mile-wide swath of Mexico's and Guatemala's Pacific coastal plains, people put extreme evolutionary pressure on the strain of the VEE virus formerly prevalent there. This VEE virus previously was believed to be spread by a particular sub-species of mosquito known as Culex (Melanoconion) taeniopus as that feeds mainly on and infects rodents and other small mammals but that is not thought to be effective at transmitting the virus to horses or people to cause epidemics... ...the researchers suggest that as deforestation wiped out the Culex sub-species, a single genetic mutation in the virus allowed it to move into a brand new niche. The mutation increased its ability to infect and be transmitted by an entirely different species of mosquitoes, called Ochlerotatus taeniorhynchuswhich prefers for its blood-meal to feed on horses and other large mammals. The virus-altering mutation was described as a single change, or substitution, in an amino-acid building block of the envelope glycoprotein. The envelope glycoprotein is the primary part of a virus that worms its way into the cells of host species via the host cells' receptors. In addition to facilitating the virus's infection of a new vector species (as insects and other organisms that transmit diseases are called), the researchers found that this amino acid substitution also had the effect of abruptly making the virus much more infectious and easily transmitted by this mosquito to horses and people. No samples exist today of the VEE virus strain that once circulated between mosquitoes and small mammals in forests and swamps along the Chiapas and Oaxaca coastal plains. But the researchers had access to samples of a similar VEE virus widespread in the nearby coastal Guatemalan community of La Avellana between 1968 and 1980. By making a DNA copy of that Guatemalan virus genome, the scientists were able to prompt mutations in the lab that resulted in amino acid changes in the envelope glycoprotein. Just one of those changes in the Guatemalan virus, it turned out, controlled the infectivity of the virus for the mosquito species Ochlerotatus taeniorhynchus... ...VEE, like SARS, HIV and hantaviruses, is an RNA virus, meaning that its genetic material is encoded in a single-strand RNA molecule rather than the double-stranded structure characteristic of the DNA double helix. RNA viruses have the capacity to mutate so frequently that they are able to respond very readily to new environmental opportunities we provide them or selective pressures we put on them, Weaver said. The result is a kind of microbiological arms race in which the microbes keep pace with, or some times surge ahead of, attempts to control them. Many microbiologists would agree that nature is a more dangerous producer of new microbial threats than any bioterrorist ever will be, Weaver concludes... Well, certainly a more prolific one. Should one of the truly nasty viruses like Marburg or Ebola ever become (or be made) as infective as influenza, we would be in nearly as bad a state as Europe during the various Black Death plagues. Of course, becoming 'vectorized' (IOW transmissible by mosquitoes) would be grim too. I wonder what impact environmental change has had on malaria transmission and genetics. Debbi Law Of Unintended Consequences Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Fight The Future: Encrypted Screws
On Aug 12, 2004, at 2:51 PM, Julia Thompson wrote: Yeah, well, some people took to command lines, and are a lot happier using command lines than GUIs. I realize such people are in the minority, but if you don't understand that there is such a minority and that they get frustrated with GUIs because the command line is just a lot more *logical* (but maybe less intuitive for the majority) and that they operate more on logic than intuition, you're going to make them unhappy by dismissing their preferences. If I may sing another chorus of All Things Bright and Macintosh, don't forget that under that practically edible user interface lies a heart of Unix, with the command line of your choice (ships with at least sh, csh, bash, zsh, and the default tcsh). With earlier versions of Mac OS, I was frequently frustrated by the painful process one had to go through to, for example, rename a batch of files. Sort of like the car dealer who totally lost the sale with my mother when she expressed a preference for a manual transmission (she has never, ever, ever driven an automatic, narrowly dodging *that* bullet last summer) and responded to her with a smile, saying, Oh, most women really prefer an automatic, as if what SHE, the individual, wanted and didn't want was totally beside the point. What a goober: the answer, of course, was If that's what you prefer, let me order that option for you. Honestly, some people are so stupid, I wonder how it is that they remember to breathe. (Figure out where people's lines are drawn, and don't cross them. Here's a story of someone who operates at completely the other end of the how to deal with people spectrum, when our first son, Kevin, was at Stanford for surgery to remove a brain tumor, his neurosurgeon, John Adler, seemed to be working very hard to keep in check what we sensed was a rich sense of humor lurking just under the surface in check. Later, when his manner with us lightened and warmed up considerably, we asked what was behind his earlier reticence. He replied that when he first meets families with gravely ill kids, he maintains a neutral demeanor until he sees if it would be appropriate for him to lighten up with the family. It was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen. Sincerely, Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Scouted: Halliburton billing WRT Iraq
Did someone already post this (I'm reading and deleting too fast for my own good!)? Oh, well - http://money.cnn.com/2004/08/11/news/fortune500/halliburton.reut/index.htm http://makeashorterlink.com/?B21226A09 Pentagon auditors have concluded that Halliburton Co. failed to adequately account for more than $1.8 billion of work in Iraq and Kuwait, said a newspaper citing a Pentagon report. The amount represents 43 percent of the $4.18 billion that Houston-based Halliburton's Kellogg Brown Root unit has billed the Pentagon to feed and house troops in the region, the Wall Street Journal reported. It said the findings in the 60-page Pentagon audit report, dated Aug. 4 but not publicly released, are likely to increase pressure on the U.S. government to withhold hundreds of millions of dollars of payments to Halliburton... Debbi Snafus And Fubars Maru ___ Do you Yahoo!? Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [L3 ] Re: Jesus-anity and the status of women
Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The case of Rev. Beth Stroud: http://www.bethstroud.info/case.shtml Case news. Other stuff on the site as well. Her writing on her faith and decision to 'come out' was clear and brave. How important her faith is to her may help others see that she is not a monster or a pervert, but a person doing her best to 'live the life.' Debbi who is trying to catch up on some saved mail... __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Fight The Future: Encrypted Screws
At 04:51 PM Thursday 8/12/04, Julia Thompson wrote: Sort of like the car dealer who totally lost the sale with my mother when she expressed a preference for a manual transmission (she has never, ever, ever driven an automatic, narrowly dodging *that* bullet last summer) and responded to her with a smile, saying, Oh, most women really prefer an automatic, as if what SHE, the individual, wanted and didn't want was totally beside the point. I suspect that at that point she really wished she had an automatic . . . -- Ronn! :) Earth is the cradle of humanity, but one cannot remain in the cradle forever. -- Konstantin E. Tsiolkovskiy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Fight The Future: Encrypted Screws
On Aug 12, 2004, at 5:25 PM, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 04:51 PM Thursday 8/12/04, Julia Thompson wrote: Sort of like the car dealer who totally lost the sale with my mother when she expressed a preference for a manual transmission (she has never, ever, ever driven an automatic, narrowly dodging *that* bullet last summer) and responded to her with a smile, saying, Oh, most women really prefer an automatic, as if what SHE, the individual, wanted and didn't want was totally beside the point. I suspect that at that point she really wished she had an automatic . . . True, but some women prefer the unmistakable message that the sound of a pump-action sends. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Fight The Future: Encrypted Screws
At 07:45 PM Thursday 8/12/04, Dave Land wrote: On Aug 12, 2004, at 5:25 PM, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 04:51 PM Thursday 8/12/04, Julia Thompson wrote: Sort of like the car dealer who totally lost the sale with my mother when she expressed a preference for a manual transmission (she has never, ever, ever driven an automatic, narrowly dodging *that* bullet last summer) and responded to her with a smile, saying, Oh, most women really prefer an automatic, as if what SHE, the individual, wanted and didn't want was totally beside the point. I suspect that at that point she really wished she had an automatic . . . True, but some women prefer the unmistakable message that the sound of a pump-action sends. Presumably they do not expect to have to clean up the results . . . -- Ronn! :) Earth is the cradle of humanity, but one cannot remain in the cradle forever. -- Konstantin E. Tsiolkovskiy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
