Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 11:53 PM Subject: Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ... But I think a comparison of Wal-Mart and Microsoft with regard to their business practices, why people dislike them, and why one and not the other has spent time in court over business practices would be edifying. I assume there are more similarities than one might expect at first glance. What percentage of the operating systems business does Microsoft have? Isn't it close to 95%? What percentage of the retail business does Wal-Mart have? Less than 9% according to Wilkipedia...which can stand correction if you have a better source. Still, I know it's not near 50%. Microsoft gives away features that are the main source of income for other companies (i.e. Microsoft Explorer vs. Netscape). I cannot think of a comparable action by Wal-Mart. If I own a PC computer (not including Apples, which I'd label , it's hard to get away from Microsoft. If I want to buy most retail items, I can and do go to Target. Were you thinking of another comparison? Oh certainly! You correctly point at the obvious differences, but I was thinking more along the lines of the strongarm tactics that come with having a dominant market position, dictating pricing to vendors and customers etc xponent Legends Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Communing with Satan in Madison Wisconsin
Dan Minette wrote: Anyways, to get back to the story, he also pointed out that the angels of God were also seen to be attributes of God by some. Thus, Satan could be considered part of God, who my housemate worshiped. Bah, this is fake satanism: redefine Satan to be something else, then say you worship it. IMHO, satanism is any religion that preaches the worship of the _antagonist_ to what is closest to God. If God is good, etc, then satanists believe that Evil may win, and want to have a part of the spoil. If God is powerful but not good [like in Cthulhu mythos], then satanists may be good. In Greek mythos, satanism made a lot of sense: those greek gods were spoiled brats, and the only decent guy was Prometheus, who was tortured by them. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The Tick (was Re: NZ devil Santas terrorise Auckland)
Steve Sloan wrote: Your post reminded me to check TVShowsOnDVD.com, to see if there was any news about The Tick cartoon on DVD. No such luck, but I voted for it on the site. Maybe one of these days... I taped a bunch of the episodes when they first aired, so I have them lying around somewhere. Also, ToonDisney plays the show at night, I think at 10:00 PM Eastern. I'd have to check that, though. Jim SPOOO!! Maru ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The Tick (was Re: NZ devil Santas terrorise Auckland)
I wrote: Also, ToonDisney plays [The Tick] at night, I think at 10:00 PM Eastern. I'd have to check that, though. In keeping with my tradition of typing before checking my facts, let me change that time to 11:00 PM Eastern, according to my Newark Star-Ledger here at my desk. Jim Fact (non) checker Maru ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
I play Microsoft's advocate from time to time, because as evil as people think they are they are more often just misunderstood, IMNSHO. People seem to anthropomorphized Microsoft into the demi-God of computer problems. Dan Minette wrote: What percentage of the operating systems business does Microsoft have? Isn't it close to 95%? Last time I saw anything: 75-80% total, 50% or less of the Server market, 50% or less of the nerd market. Quick question: how many OSes would you like to know how to use every day? Microsoft gives away features that are the main source of income for other companies (i.e. Microsoft Explorer vs. Netscape). This is much more of a Vertical Monopoly problem than a Monopoly problem. Our Anti-Trust Laws do not affect Vertical Monopolies, otherwise Sony, Viacom, Times Warner and others should be facing court battles. Every feature that Microsoft has given away for free has been things that should be included in an Operating System. Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to listen to music? Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to use something as integral to the network experience as a web browser? Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to use something as integral to the health of your PC as an anti-virus program? Microsoft does it and over-rich third parties whine about Monopolistic tendencies. Apple does it (iTunes, iPhoto, i*, Final Cut *, ...) and people hail it as the second coming! Linux does it every day, and has done it since the beginning... Why is Microsoft the exception to the rule? I cannot think of a comparable action by Wal-Mart. Price Gouging; Unfair Trade Agreements; Service Bundling; All-In-One-Stop-Shopping. There's an entire documentary on some of this if you care, but again, these are all Vertical Monopoly problems coming from the fact that Wal-Mart sells everything and owns quite a bit of the production systems as well. If I own a PC computer (not including Apples, which I'd label , it's hard to get away from Microsoft. If I want to buy most retail items, I can and do go to Target. Depends on your definition of hard. You can install Linux on your PC pretty easily nowadays, and you can try before you buy (spend the time installing) with very easy Live CDs (ask your neighborhood geek for a good Live CD, or order the Ubuntu CDs, which has an included Live CD to help you decide to install Ubuntu). Sure, there's a learning curve, but have you ever had two VCRs that used the exact same menu system? An Operating System is like a Gaggle of VCRs, in that respect. That's a tough cookie to crack and one of the reasons business and individuals have standardized on one (Windows); whether they like it or not they can use it where ever they come to it.Imagine the mess we'd have if there weren't a standard OS on most PCs. How many OSes do you think you can learn and keep fresh on day to day? In this case, the fact that there is a Monopoly is not from evilness on Microsoft's part, but from request/need of the market itself. Before Computers that was unprecedented in Capitalist markets (which goes to show how Computer software may in fact be a Socialist organism). People need to start realizing that the blame for Microsoft's profluence is partly their own. (The only real solution to the Microsoft Problem would be to institutionalize/nationalize the Operating System. Some States and Countries are already working on this, in fact, at least for government work.) -- --Max Battcher-- http://www.worldmaker.net/ All progress is based upon a universal innate desire on the part of every organism to live beyond its income. --Samuel Butler ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Defeat in Victory
Robert Seeberger wrote: From where I'm viewing, a corner seems to have been turned in recent months and most people in the US share opinions that are more leftish than they were over the last few years. Arguably the true American center has always been more to the left than right. -- --Max Battcher-- http://www.worldmaker.net/ History bleeds for tomorrow / for us to realize and never more follow blind --Machinae Supremacy, Deus Ex Machinae, Title Track ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Fwd: [lds-poll] Military Chaplains apparently told to avoid praying in the name of Jesus
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20051221-121224-6972r.htm --Ronn! :) Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER GOD. Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that would be eliminated from schools too? -- Red Skelton (Someone asked me to change my .sig quote back, so I did.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Defeat in Victory
- Original Message - From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 10:35 PM Subject: Re: Defeat in Victory G It's not all about you Dan!G I was suggesting that perhaps you are missing that most of the liberal posters here are espousing views that are more centrist than you might think. OK. The idea that we went to war in Iraq in order to make money for oil companies is centralist? From where I'm viewing, a corner seems to have been turned in recent months and most people in the US share opinions that are more leftish than they were over the last few years. Maybebut it isn't really clear. After the enormous blundering of this administration, as well as the scandals of the House and Senate Republican leadership, one would think that 2006 will be 1994 all over again. But, Bush is bouncing back somewhat in the polls now, and the Democrats still can't seem to get their act together. Plus, there are only about 40-50 House seats that are in play, so it would take an overwhelming victory by the Democrats to regain control of the House. So, a year from now, we may or may not see a significant shift. I'm hoping that we will. But I think arguments that we went to war to give US oil companies control of the Mid-East oilfields, that the Republic is on it's last legs, etc. are ones that I've rarely seen. Since I left Mad-Town, 23 years ago, even living in Connecticut, I've seen it at a Dennis Kupechne (sp) meeting I was invited to, here, on Culture, and on the walls at colleges my girls went to. I haven't even seen the question asked in polls, so I don't have numbers, but I'd guess less than 10% nationwide believe this (~3.5x Nadar's top vote %). As far as I can tell, that it the centralist position that Andrew Paul referred to. It is certainly the mode position of recent political posts here. Take my posts out, even allowing for the weighed average including your posts, and I'd argue that position is the mean of recent posts here. Now, one might ask if I think it is the mean of the positions of the people on this list. I don't think so, but that's harder to measure. So, I didn't refer to that, I merely referred to what was written in recent (say since Gautam and JDG left) political posts. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Defeat in Victory
Dan Minette wrote: OK. The idea that we went to war in Iraq in order to make money for oil companies is centralist? Is this the official list position? I think it is: The USA went to war in Iraq to protect the interests of the Saudi Princes and that oil companies [including Petrobras :-)] benefited the war as a side effect. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Defeat in Victory
- Original Message - From: Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 10:16 AM Subject: Re: Defeat in Victory Dan Minette wrote: OK. The idea that we went to war in Iraq in order to make money for oil companies is centralist? Is this the official list position? I think it is: The USA went to war in Iraq to protect the interests of the Saudi Princes Fair enough, I forgot to include Brin's official position. :-) I would guess that would get less than 1% in a national poll. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Wal-Mart efficiency (was Re: My annual Xmas tirade...)
On 12/20/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, I'm not sure why Wal-Mart is singled out as evil. Is there some reason that inefficiency is inherently moral? Do I understand you correctly -- your premise is that Wal-Mart is efficient and its competitors aren't? Nick -- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Messages: 408-904-7198 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Did George Bush break the law?
Have you heard that George Bush is using the National Security Agency to conduct surveillance on American citizens without the consent of any court? This is specifically against the law. Bush says political appointees in the Justice Department outlined the legal authority to get around the restrictions in our laws and the Constitution, but those legal memos are classified. I just added my name to a formal Freedom of Information Act request to see these documents. We need to know if the president broke the law, and where this administration thinks the line of its authority is. You can sign on to the Freedom of Information Act request here: http://www.democrats.org/page/petition/domesticspying/fddxqa Thanks! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wal-Mart efficiency (was Re: My annual Xmas tirade...)
- Original Message - From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 10:20 AM Subject: Wal-Mart efficiency (was Re: My annual Xmas tirade...) On 12/20/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, I'm not sure why Wal-Mart is singled out as evil. Is there some reason that inefficiency is inherently moral? Do I understand you correctly -- your premise is that Wal-Mart is efficient and its competitors aren't? My premise is that Wal-Mart has driven the efficiency in the retail market over the past 15-20 years or so. Other retailers, such as Target, have worked to stay abrest. But, Wal-Mart revolutionized retail marketing by giant chains. I was in Conneticuit when several chains closed most of their New England stores because of competition from Wal-Mart. That was about 1990. The NY Times did a very interesting piece at that time (I'll try to find information on it, but it's old enough to be hard to find on the internet). The piece stated that Wal-Mart invested in computerized inventory control, while the other chains invested in new stores. As a result, Wal-Mart was able to undersell the other stores by a significant margin, while still making decent profits. Since then, Wal-Mart has continued to lead in and push for efficiencies, such as bar codes, private sattilite systems, and RFID codes. One thing this has done is allowed them to rationalize their sale prices. Due to lack of information, stores often ended up discounting items that were selling at reasonable rates, while keeping full price on items that sat on the shelves for weeks. Wal-Mart's latest (fiscal year ending 1-05) profit margin was 3.6%. They make a good deal of profit, 10 billion, but on slim margins. This is in contrast with Microsoft, which has a profit margin of ~32% and about 13 billion in profits. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wal-Mart efficiency (was Re: My annual Xmas tirade...)
- Original Message - From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 10:39 AM Subject: Re: Wal-Mart efficiency (was Re: My annual Xmas tirade...) Whoops, forgot the source for much of my info... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wal-Mart The Microsoft stuff was from Yahoo Financials. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Did George Bush break the law?
From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Have you heard that George Bush is using the National Security Agency to conduct surveillance on American citizens without the consent of any court? This is specifically against the law. Bush says political appointees in the Justice Department outlined the legal authority to get around the restrictions in our laws and the Constitution, but those legal memos are classified. The real question is _who_ is it that the Chimperor is spying on that he believes FISA will deny? They've only ever denied warrants 6 times. You can even get a warrant retroactivily up to 72 hours after the fact in 'emergencies'. Who? Politicians? Journalists? Environmental activists? You? Who? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade...
Max Battcher wrote: Every feature that Microsoft has given away for free has been things that should be included in an Operating System. Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to listen to music? Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to use something as integral to the network experience as a web browser? Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to use something as integral to the health of your PC as an anti-virus program? I agree that any OS should include those things. But Micro$oft is Evil not for including them, but for _not_ including other basic things that any decent OS should include, like _any_ programming language support (C, C++, or even b*sic), any reasonable text editor, any reasonable command language, etc. And even the things M$ include are crappy. For example, their music player does not play .ogg files [which are similar to .mp3, but without the legalese evilness of .mp3]. (The only real solution to the Microsoft Problem would be to institutionalize/nationalize the Operating System. Some States and Countries are already working on this, in fact, at least for government work.) Any country whose rulers aren´t in the payroll of M$ are changing to Free Software OSes. It´s high treason that governments write secret documents using a product that is owned by a foreign country. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Did George Bush break the law?
Nick Arnett wrote: Have you heard that George Bush is using the National Security Agency to conduct surveillance on American citizens without the consent of any court? No, Nick, I have avoided contact with papers, TV and the Internet for a week now, and haven't heard this every day since Friday. ;-) It's amazing, the seductiveness of the safety argument they're making. For one brief second, I find myself saying Hey, it's only a narrow scope, right? A few international calls to suspected Al Qaeda operatives. No biggie, it's not *real* Americans they're targeting. Then of course I come to my senses and remember that I live in America and that this shit isn't OK, and that the War on Terror *cannot* be a blank check for the Administration to do whatever the heck it pleases, or else what is it being fought for? And that's setting aside the old slippry slope argument. Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Tick (was Re: NZ devil Santas terrorise Auckland)
Jim Sharkey wrote: Steve Sloan wrote: Your post reminded me to check TVShowsOnDVD.com, to see if there was any news about The Tick cartoon on DVD. No such luck, but I voted for it on the site. Maybe one of these days... I taped a bunch of the episodes when they first aired, so I have them lying around somewhere. Also, ToonDisney plays the show at night, I think at 10:00 PM Eastern. I'd have to check that, though. Jim SPOOO!! Maru Not the face! Not the face! Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Correction
Corrections It has come to our attention that there were a number of errors in our recent Christmas carol supplement. The correct lyrics to the song Jingle Bell Rock are Dancing and prancing in jingle bell square, _in the frosty air_, not ... in your underwear. The correct lyrics to the song Holly Jolly Christmas are I don't know if there'll be snow, but _there'll be lots of cheer_, not, ... there'll be lots of beer. Finally, the correct lyrics to the children's hymn I Wonder When He Comes Again are Will daylight last the whole night through, _will songbirds leave their nests_? not ... will some birds leave a mess? We regret these errors. The Editors MEMORANDUM To: All Employees From: Management Effective immediately, the serving of egg nog in the writers' bullpen is discontinued. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
On 21 Dec 2005, at 8:28 am, Max Battcher wrote: I play Microsoft's advocate from time to time, because as evil as people think they are they are more often just misunderstood, IMNSHO. However evil people think Microsoft is it is actually more evil than that :) People seem to anthropomorphized Microsoft into the demi-God of computer problems. Dan Minette wrote: What percentage of the operating systems business does Microsoft have? Isn't it close to 95%? Last time I saw anything: 75-80% total, 50% or less of the Server market, 50% or less of the nerd market. Whatever the peak was it's certainly in decline now. Quick question: how many OSes would you like to know how to use every day? Microsoft gives away features that are the main source of income for other companies (i.e. Microsoft Explorer vs. Netscape). This is much more of a Vertical Monopoly problem than a Monopoly problem. Our Anti-Trust Laws do not affect Vertical Monopolies, otherwise Sony, Viacom, Times Warner and others should be facing court battles. Every feature that Microsoft has given away for free has been things that should be included in an Operating System. Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to listen to music? Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to use something as integral to the network experience as a web browser? Do you want to be *required* to pay a third party to use something as integral to the health of your PC as an anti-virus program? Microsoft does it and over-rich third parties whine about Monopolistic tendencies. Apple does it (iTunes, iPhoto, i*, Final Cut *, ...) and people hail it as the second coming! Linux does it every day, and has done it since the beginning... Why is Microsoft the exception to the rule? Because Microsoft was found guilty in a court of law of abusing its monopoly and is therefore subject to different rules (as a convicted monopoly abuser) than Apple or Linux (which are not convicted monopoly abusers) as part of the mandated remedy for that abuse. That's why. Just like someone on probation isn't allowed to do all the same things as their neighbour who isn't on probation. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without bricks tied to its head. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Tick (was Re: NZ devil Santas terrorise Auckland)
Julia Thompson wrote: Jim Sharkey wrote: SPOOO!! Not the face! Not the face! Well, *you're* no super-hero... (The Chainsaw Vigilante) FWIW, the 12 original Tick comics are funnier than either the cartoon or the show. Some great stuff in there, and well worth seeking out if you're looking for some good yuks. Jim Clark Oppenheimer Maru ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
It's Alive! It's ALIVE!
I try to not ghost-post very often, but this one is just too interesting. Mauro http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051219.wxlife19/BNStory/specialScienceandHealth/ Work on the world's first human-made species is well under way at a research complex in Rockville, Md., and scientists in Canada have been quietly conducting experiments to help bring such a creature to life. Robert Holt, head of sequencing for the Genome Science Centre at the University of British Columbia, is leading efforts at his Vancouver lab to play a key role in the production of the first synthetic life form -- a microbe made from scratch. The project is being spearheaded by U.S. scientist Craig Venter, who gained fame in his former job as head of Celera Genomics, which completed a privately-owned map of the human genome in 2000. The article continues on the website... ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Weekly Chat Reminder
As Steve said, The Brin-L weekly chat has been a list tradition for over six years. Way back on 27 May, 1998, Marco Maisenhelder first set up a chatroom for the list, and on the next day, he established a weekly chat time. We've been through several servers, chat technologies, and even casts of regulars over the years, but the chat goes on... and we want more recruits! Whether you're an active poster or a lurker, whether you've been a member of the list from the beginning or just joined today, we would really like for you to join us. We have less politics, more Uplift talk, and more light-hearted discussion. We're non-fattening and 100% environmentally friendly... -(_() Though sometimes marshmallows do get thrown. The Weekly Brin-L chat is scheduled for Wednesday 3 PM Eastern/2 PM Central time in the US, or 7 PM Greenwich time. There's usually somebody there to talk to for at least eight hours after the start time. If you want to attend, it's really easy now. All you have to do is send your web browser to: http://wtgab.demon.co.uk/~brinl/mud/ ..And you can connect directly from William's new web interface! My instruction page tells you how to log on, and how to talk when you get in: http://www.brin-l.org/brinmud.html It also gives a list of commands to use when you're in there. In addition, it tells you how to connect through a MUD client, which is more complicated to set up initially, but easier and more reliable than the web interface once you do get it set up. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ This message was sent automatically using cron. But even if WTG is away on holiday, at least it shows the server is still up. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
William T Goodall wrote: Max Battcher wrote: Last time I saw anything: 75-80% total, 50% or less of the Server market, 50% or less of the nerd market. Whatever the peak was it's certainly in decline now. Yeah, Gates is letting his guard slip with all that sissy-ass philanthropy Bono's got him involved in. He's *clearly* lost his evil overlord his edge. :) Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Who?
http://www.seeingtheforest.com/archives/2005/12/questions_about.htm Questions About Bush Spying 1) Is the White House listening in on Special Prosecutor Fitzgerald's calls and e-mails as he investigates White House crimes? 2) Was the Bush campaign listening in on calls and e-mails from the people in charge of the Kerry campaign? 3) Is the Bush Administration using the NSA to determine whether applicants for jobs, travel, etc. are Bush supporters or not? 4) Did the NSA tip off the Bush Administration that the federal prosecutor in Guam was looking into Jack Abramoff? 5) Did Bush use this new spying capability to monitor groups active in causes as diverse as the environment, animal cruelty and poverty relief? One F.B.I. document indicates that agents in Indianapolis planned to conduct surveillance as part of a Vegan Community Project. Another document talks of the Catholic Workers group's semi-communistic ideology. A third indicates the bureau's interest in determining the location of a protest over llama fur planned by People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. 6) When Bush says we are only spying on the enemy does he mean that same enemy that Senior White House Advisor and Deputy White House Chief of Staff Karl Rove means when he says, liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers Republicans say they are only onitoring the phone calls and e-mails of the enemy. But they also say that we - you and I - are the enemy. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wal-Mart efficiency (was Re: My annual Xmas tirade...)
On 12/21/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wal-Mart's latest (fiscal year ending 1-05) profit margin was 3.6%. They make a good deal of profit, 10 billion, but on slim margins. This is in contrast with Microsoft, which has a profit margin of ~32% and about 13 billion in profits. Okay, it seems to me you're making an economic argument about Wal-Mart's efficiency. It certainly seems true that the company has pushed very hard to be economically efficient. What I don't understand is which complaints about Wal-Mart you are arguing against. That it mistreats employees? That it drives out small businesses that create qualitative and hard-to-quantify benefits? Or what? These complaints are only somewhat related to economic efficiency, the financial bottom line. There are other kinds of bottom lines, which are harder to quantify, such as the health and well-being of individuals and communities. That's where I think people have trouble with Wal-Mart, not the fact that they make money. It's not the profit itself that is the problem, it's non-financial costs, as well as financial costs that simply aren't part of an individual company's accounting. We don't calculate the financial bottom line for a company's employees as a group, or for communities as a whole, so we really don't know the bigger picture that Wal-Mart fits into. But there is overwhelming evidence that the entrance of Wal-Mart (and stores like it, of course) a community's economics. It seems to me that there's a fallacy often at work, which says that any profitable business that doesn't actually commit crimes should be assumed to be either neutral or good for society as a whole. It's a fallacy not just because it fails to take into account larger-scale economics but also because the economic bottom line is not *the* bottom line. Nick -- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Messages: 408-904-7198 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wal-Mart efficiency (was Re: My annual Xmas tirade...)
- Original Message - From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 2:35 PM Subject: Re: Wal-Mart efficiency (was Re: My annual Xmas tirade...) On 12/21/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wal-Mart's latest (fiscal year ending 1-05) profit margin was 3.6%. They make a good deal of profit, 10 billion, but on slim margins. This is in contrast with Microsoft, which has a profit margin of ~32% and about 13 billion in profits. Okay, it seems to me you're making an economic argument about Wal-Mart's efficiency. It certainly seems true that the company has pushed very hard to be economically efficient. What I don't understand is which complaints about Wal-Mart you are arguing against. That it mistreats employees? That it treats its workers worse than the average retail worker is treated. I know people who work retail, and it is not a high paying segment of the industry. Small businesses don't pay $15.00/hour for general clerk help. My kids, as I'm sure your's have, have applied at small and large businesess; and they money offered them is less than Wal-Mart pays. That it drives out small businesses that create qualitative and hard-to-quantify benefits? Sure, it drives out small businesses. Small businesses are rather inefficient at selling, and have to pass the cost on to the customer. There is a certain romanticism about small businesses. They still exist, of course, but they sell to higher income people who don't mind paying a significnt premium. Why shouldn't working class people shop where their money goes the furthest? What is wrong with offering something someone wants. These complaints are only somewhat related to economic efficiency, the financial bottom line. With all do respect, low prices are a lot less important to people making professional salaries, who own and sell businesses (like we do) than to people who are just getting by. Wal-Mart has cut the cost of living for lower income people considerably. Efficience is the inverse of waste. An efficient process wastes a lot less than an inefficient process. As a result of Wal-Mart, things that average people buy cost less than they otherwise would haveoften less than they did before. In constant dollars, a wearable shirt costs much less at Walmat now than it did at a small clothing store 50 years ago. Our lower income friends and relatives love Walmart. Unlike the mall, when I go there I don't see mostly upper income people in designer outfits. Now, you can argue that lower income people don't know what's good for thembut a lot of them seem to have as much or more sense than the folks I see in designer clothes. There are other kinds of bottom lines, which are harder to quantify, such as the health and well-being of individuals and communities. That's where I think people have trouble with Wal-Mart, not the fact that they make money. It's not the profit itself that is the problem, it's non-financial costs, as well as financial costs that simply aren't part of an individual company's accounting. We don't calculate the financial bottom line for a company's employees as a group, or for communities as a whole, so we really don't know the bigger picture that Wal-Mart fits into. But there is overwhelming evidence that the entrance of Wal-Mart (and stores like it, of course) a community's economics. The overwhelming evidence is that Wal-Mart stores improve the economics of the people who shop there vs. buying items at higher price stores. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Merry Chrismakwanzahanayule!
To celebrate the season, I made this. Dig in, there's plenty to share! http://www.livejournal.com/users/kerrizor/374310.html __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wal-Mart efficiency (was Re: My annual Xmas tirade...)
Dan Minette wrote: a wearable shirt costs...at Walmat To me, that's a contradiction in terms. My personal experiences with clothes purchased at Wal-Mart is that you get *exactly* what you pay for. Cheap clothes that look like crap after just a few washings. Maybe others have had different experiences, but for my money, the quality-cutting that accompanies much of its cost-cutting makes their stuff less of a bargain than it may appear to be on the surface. Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:57 PM, Dan Minette wrote: From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ineffiencies *are* the economy. Perfect efficiencies would lead to 0% employment and complete economic collapse. Ah, so that explains why the economy of the Soviet Union outperformed the US for so long. :-) I venture that the problem with the Soviet economy was not simply a matter of inefficiency. It may have had something to do with a small cadre of power-hungry, greedy bastards who manipulated the system for their benefit. Sound familiar? History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wal-Mart efficiency (was Re: My annual Xmas tirade...)
On Dec 21, 2005, at 12:35 PM, Nick Arnett wrote: On 12/21/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wal-Mart's latest (fiscal year ending 1-05) profit margin was 3.6%. They make a good deal of profit, 10 billion, but on slim margins. This is in contrast with Microsoft, which has a profit margin of ~32% and about 13 billion in profits. What I don't understand is which complaints about Wal-Mart you are arguing against. That it mistreats employees? That it drives out small businesses that create qualitative and hard-to-quantify benefits? That a good part of its so-called efficiency is underwritten by billions of taxpayer dollars via the state and federal welfare and healthcare systems? That is is under indictment in a number of states for forcing its employees to work unpaid overtime? That it regularly hires undocumented workers to undercut legal citizens' salaries? That it engages in gender and race discrimination in hiring and promotions? That it illegally interferes with unionization efforts of its employees? That is systematically violates environmental laws? That two jobs are lost for every job it creates in virtually every town where it opens a store? Efficiency is not an unalloyed good, except perhaps in economic theory. In practice, efficiency must balanced with other concerns. But Wal-Mart apologists recognize no other mantra than ruthless efficiency. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wal-Mart efficiency (was Re: My annual Xmas tirade...)
On Dec 21, 2005, at 3:29 PM, Dave Land wrote: ... Forgot the one about underpricing competition until it goes out of business so that it is free to claim the 'lowest prices' in town, because nobody else is in town. They even installed gas pumps at some of their stores so that none of the gas stations in town could make a penny selling gasoline to all those Wal-Mart shoppers, and sold the gas at below-market prices to destroy the competition. I know that über-capitalists consider this kind of kill-em- all-and-let-God-sort-em-out mentality the pinnacle of economic evolution, but I disagree. And no, I don't want us to be communist or something else, I just don't want my economy destroyed by rapacity. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Defeat in Victory
- Original Message - From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 9:58 AM Subject: Re: Defeat in Victory - Original Message - From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 10:35 PM Subject: Re: Defeat in Victory G It's not all about you Dan!G I was suggesting that perhaps you are missing that most of the liberal posters here are espousing views that are more centrist than you might think. OK. The idea that we went to war in Iraq in order to make money for oil companies is centralist? Whew We really are not thinking about the same kinds of things at all this week!G But since you mention it, The only people I see talk that way are decidedly left or a few disaffected centrist conservatives, so I think you can find a range of people stuck in the war-for-oil loop rather than just a single camp. Myself feels that the Bushies are not so much evil as they are aggresively opportunistic, so the whole war-for-oil is plauseable and worth discussing (in terms of the process of falsification) but it is not an idea that I set great store in because I forsee that there are a great many conjectures that could also come into play due to the variety of players that make up this administration. I do not doubt that there is a good deal of corruption at work and it seems to me that we have only begun to scrabble after the facts. What I find most interesting is how this group has been able to make some quite extreme claims sound very reasonable to the average Joe(sette) with hardly an eyebrow raised til this last year, while the most avid Bush-haters froth, wrack, and shrilly declaim to the end of having a most miniscule influence at all. The Bushies are most skilled in that regard. From where I'm viewing, a corner seems to have been turned in recent months and most people in the US share opinions that are more leftish than they were over the last few years. Maybebut it isn't really clear. After the enormous blundering of this administration, as well as the scandals of the House and Senate Republican leadership, one would think that 2006 will be 1994 all over again. But, Bush is bouncing back somewhat in the polls now, and the Democrats still can't seem to get their act together. Plus, there are only about 40-50 House seats that are in play, so it would take an overwhelming victory by the Democrats to regain control of the House. I'm thinking the Dems might get the Senate. I know they want it. It has more concentrated power and makes a better bullypulpit. So, a year from now, we may or may not see a significant shift. I'm hoping that we will. But I think arguments that we went to war to give US oil companies control of the Mid-East oilfields, that the Republic is on it's last legs, etc. are ones that I've rarely seen. Since I left Mad-Town, 23 years ago, even living in Connecticut, I've seen it at a Dennis Kupechne (sp) meeting I was invited to, here, on Culture, and on the walls at colleges my girls went to. I haven't even seen the question asked in polls, so I don't have numbers, but I'd guess less than 10% nationwide believe this (~3.5x Nadar's top vote %). As far as I can tell, that it the centralist position that Andrew Paul referred to. It is certainly the mode position of recent political posts here. Take my posts out, even allowing for the weighed average including your posts, and I'd argue that position is the mean of recent posts here. Even when John and Gautam were posting this list tended left of center by a respectable margin. Much more than the nation overall. The list likely reflected world opinion a bit better though. So...what *should* be reflected? IMO worrying over such is a bit narcissistic, kind of a group solipsism.G Group averages are interesting but mean little in the long run. People change their opinions over time and we grow with the times we survive. Our differences are not so great as we often think. (What's this We shit Kemosabe?) At some point we, (there you go with that We crap again) as a group/nation/world, are going to have to come to grip with the fact that most of out divisions are created and are artificial distinctions, and that these distinctions are leading us astray and causing us to cling to untruths in the name of group unity. Each of us are going to die someday and all this party prejudice will be for naught. Now, one might ask if I think it is the mean of the positions of the people on this list. I don't think so, but that's harder to measure. So, I didn't refer to that, I merely referred to what was written in recent (say since Gautam and JDG left) political posts. Yeah, if truth goes unchallenged, is it Truth? xponent Looking For An Anchor Maru rob
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 4:46 PM Subject: Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ... On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:57 PM, Dan Minette wrote: From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ineffiencies *are* the economy. Perfect efficiencies would lead to 0% employment and complete economic collapse. Ah, so that explains why the economy of the Soviet Union outperformed the US for so long. :-) I venture that the problem with the Soviet economy was not simply a matter of inefficiency. It may have had something to do with a small cadre of power-hungry, greedy bastards who manipulated the system for their benefit. Actually, they didn't live rich, compared to a US millionaire at the time. The GDP of the Soviet Union went backwards during it's last 10 years or so.. Interviews after the war indicated that many in the upper echelons of the Communist party still believed in their ideals. Or, take East and West Germany for comparison examples. North and South Korea also do well. Or how about Japanthey have much stronger relationships between the government and business than the US, yet their standard of living is far better than the USSR was. Central planned economies have done far worse than economies where markets exist, set prices, etc. In a central planned economy being politically correct is critical; efficiency is less critical. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Cocoa additives
Much snippage throughout- Mauro Diotallevi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: Mauro the gourmand Diotallevi wrote: ...Think mango and chipotle peppers together, for an example, or papaya and cayenne. Or the mixture of chocolate and various peppers in mole. shudders Sorry, I have tried mole several times and found it very unpalatable...But mango-chipotle salsa sounds delicious! Mangoes are one of my favorite foods in the world, but mole comes in a close second. ...But certainly, everyone's tastes are different. For example, despite their similarities, I enjoy a good haggis but am not much fond of menudo. Some friends brought traditional and vegetarian haggis back from Scotland - I enjoyed both, but the veggie was nicely spicy, so I preferred that. ...My years-ago trial of fresh ginger in tea with milk was tongue-curdling; how do you mix ginger and milk without that? Or is it a matter of amount, or using powdered ginger instead of fresh? Definitely powdered ginger, carefully applied. Guess I'll have to get some. And of course, any sweetener added to any of these should be pure cane sugar. Why? Sucrose ought to be sucrose, whatever the source. From http://www.candhsugarcompany.com/Consumer/cane_vs_beet.html at the CH website: Cane sugar contains trace minerals that are different from those in beet sugar, and it's these minerals that many experts say make cane sugar preferable to use... [Aside: eeeuuw! !Ronn! :P] I do prefer CH brown sugar to the less expensive ones that are essentially white sugar with molasses added back (waves to Julia). Debbi whose cat prefers vole tartar, but would probably enjoy mole that way as well From the Song of Bashir- Mousies fleet are quite a treat To chase around the barn-o; And when they've done their bestest run They make great mouse tartar-o! __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
On Dec 21, 2005, at 3:52 PM, Dan Minette wrote: - Original Message - From: Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:57 PM, Dan Minette wrote: From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ineffiencies *are* the economy. Perfect efficiencies would lead to 0% employment and complete economic collapse. Ah, so that explains why the economy of the Soviet Union outperformed the US for so long. :-) I venture that the problem with the Soviet economy was not simply a matter of inefficiency. It may have had something to do with a small cadre of power-hungry, greedy bastards who manipulated the system for their benefit. Actually, they didn't live rich, compared to a US millionaire at the time. The GDP of the Soviet Union went backwards during it's last 10 years or so.. Interviews after the war indicated that many in the upper echelons of the Communist party still believed in their ideals. Of course, I didn't say that they lived rich compared to anybody, but that's how I don't have a leg to stand on arguments go, isn't it: how's that straw man coming along? I said: It may have had something to do with a small cadre of power-hungry, greedy bastards who manipulated the system for their benefit. Sound familiar? Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
- Original Message - From: Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 6:03 PM Subject: Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ... It may have had something to do with a small cadre of power-hungry, greedy bastards who manipulated the system for their benefit. But, they didn't manipulate the system for their personal benefit. If they did, they would have lived rich. They manipulated the system to achieve their ideal. Unfortunately, their ideal ran against the reality of centrally controlled economiesthe inefficiencies destroy wealth. The Soviet economy went backwards because centrally planned economies are notoriously inefficient. Inefficient means that more money goes down the toilet. Let me ask a question from another post. You argued that two jobs were lost for every job created when Wal-Mart comes into a town. Doesn't that mean that Wal-Mart needs only half the people to do the same amount of work? Are you arguing that featherbedding is a good idea? Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
On 21 Dec 2005, at 7:04 pm, Jim Sharkey wrote: William T Goodall wrote: Max Battcher wrote: Last time I saw anything: 75-80% total, 50% or less of the Server market, 50% or less of the nerd market. Whatever the peak was it's certainly in decline now. Yeah, Gates is letting his guard slip with all that sissy-ass philanthropy Bono's got him involved in. He's *clearly* lost his evil overlord his edge. :) Microsoft attained its dominant position in the personal computer software business through 1) Luck 2) Illegal business practices 3) The mistakes of its competitors and since a) Luck eventually runs out b) Microsoft is now closely scrutinised to ensure it doesn't break the law anymore c) The competition has wised up Microsoft's position can only decline from now. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Aerospace is plumbing with the volume turned up. - John Carmack ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Flashback (was: RepubliKlan Amerika:Valtrex)
Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snippage http://www.livejournal.com/users/triggur/104525.html I know a young woman who has the misfortune to have contracted genital herpes... Recently she took her prescription to a pharmacist... Not only did he refuse to fill the prescription, but he tore it up and handed it back to her, saying, God is punishing you for your sin. Reprehensible. As are those who refuse to fill birth control scripts. Julia's idea of prosecution sounds unfortunately like what it will take to rectify these situations. There's a song, They'll Know We are Christians by Our Love. whiplash Whew, just got jolted back to Vacation Bible School -- is that a Lutheran song, or generic Protestant? :) I'm having a hard time knowing that this person is a Christian. Seems to me that he thinks *he* is God, since he's the one who chose to punish. I so understand why some are refering to themselves as followers of Jesus instead of Christians - although that's not the way to 'take it back.' :/ Debbi The Johnny Appleseed Blessing Maru __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wal-Mart efficiency (was Re: My annual Xmas tirade...)
On 12/21/05, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That it drives out small businesses that create qualitative and hard-to-quantify benefits? Sure, it drives out small businesses. Small businesses are rather inefficient at selling, and have to pass the cost on to the customer. There is a certain romanticism about small businesses. They still exist, of course, but they sell to higher income people who don't mind paying a significnt premium. You're writing as though efficiency at selling is the ultimate good. What if it isn't? As a matter of fact, I'm darn sure it isn't. And I suspect that the economy as a whole is less efficient when sectors become dominated by a few large players. Game theory, as well as many simulations, strongly support that idea. All that we *know* Wal-Mart is good at is getting big and keeping prices low. Not being a worshipper of low prices, I'm not willing to let that be the only bottom line. Why shouldn't working class people shop where their money goes the furthest? What is wrong with offering something someone wants. People want low prices; Wal-Mart offers low prices, therefore Wal-Mart is good. Is that what you're saying? What about all the other things people want -- jobs that pay well, health insurance, less dependence on traveling long distances by car to shop and so forth? People want those, too, and Wal-Mart isn't delivering. They're taking away. Now, you can argue that lower income people don't know what's good for thembut a lot of them seem to have as much or more sense than the folks I see in designer clothes. Yes, I could, were I an elitist jerk. So don't go putting those words in my mouth. The overwhelming evidence is that Wal-Mart stores improve the economics of the people who shop there vs. buying items at higher price stores. So this is the message to the people left behind by Wal-Mart efficiency -- Sorry you're out of work, your house is in foreclosure and you have no medical care... but be of good cheer, Wal-Mart is rolling back prices! I'm sure you'll be comforted knowing that if you had any money, it would go further at Wal-Mart. And that's just the extreme case, of course. Low prices are not the bottom line. Corporate profits are not the bottom line. If we're to be a decent society, we have to take much more into account. Nick -- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Messages: 408-904-7198 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
William T Goodall wrote: Microsoft attained its dominant position in the personal computer software business through 1) Luck 2) Illegal business practices 3) The mistakes of its competitors and since a) Luck eventually runs out b) Microsoft is now closely scrutinised to ensure it doesn't break the law anymore c) The competition has wised up Microsoft's position can only decline from now. Microsoft may yet have another life if it manages to dominate the living room in the way it has done the office. Sales between Thanksgiving and Christmas of Media Centre edition PCs in the US have been staggering. It's not that MS get that much more for the Media Centre version of Windows (they do, of course) but the stake being claimed in the living room. Once Xbox360 takes that next step into people's home lives, it may be that they have got far enough. Sony's devices are better, Apple's 10foot interface is better, but it's the Microsoft stuff people will have, so it is Microsoft that the content providers will have to deal with. Rather than breaking the law, they will just ensure that DRM laws etc benefit them in the first place... Cheers Russell C. --- This email (including any attachments) is confidential and copyright. The School makes no warranty about the content of this email. Unless expressly stated, this email does not bind the School and does not necessarily constitute the opinion of the School. If you have received this email in error, please delete it and notify the sender. --- GWAVAsig ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade...
Alberto Monteiro wrote: I agree that any OS should include those things. But Micro$oft is Evil not for including them, but for _not_ including other basic things that any decent OS should include, like _any_ programming language support (C, C++, or even b*sic), any reasonable text editor, any reasonable command language, etc. All of the latest Microsoft Compilers (languages include C++, C#, VB.NET, others) are free and most likely are already installed on your computer. IMO, Notepad is a reasonable text editor. When I want features I want something like Vim and I don't expect Microsoft to deal with the Vim v. Emacs debate. The cmd.exe and Windows Script Host together support quite a bit of reasonable commands, and the Monad Shell in beta-testing provides everything but the kitchen sink. -- --Max Battcher-- http://www.worldmaker.net/ All progress is based upon a universal innate desire on the part of every organism to live beyond its income. --Samuel Butler ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: My annual Xmas tirade... Was RE: An armed society ...
Jim Sharkey wrote: William T Goodall wrote: Max Battcher wrote: Last time I saw anything: 75-80% total, 50% or less of the Server market, 50% or less of the nerd market. Whatever the peak was it's certainly in decline now. Yeah, Gates is letting his guard slip with all that sissy-ass philanthropy Bono's got him involved in. He's *clearly* lost his evil overlord his edge. :) I'm not complaining -- some of that money is coming to near me. Of course, between Dell Computers and Michael Susan Dell, we get a fair bit of computer-money philanthropy in the area anyway. :) I think the Dell name is going onto at least a wing of the new children's hospital that's being built in Austin. I'm sure a bunch of the equipment in it will be Dell stuff, as well; they were using Dell equipment for Tommy's upper GI series a little over a year ago at the existing children's hospital. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wal-Mart efficiency (was Re: My annual Xmas tirade...)
- Original Message - From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 6:42 PM Subject: Re: Wal-Mart efficiency (was Re: My annual Xmas tirade...) -- From: Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] And no, I don't want us to be communist or something else, I just don't want my economy destroyed by rapacity. Since most products sold at walmart are made in china, shopping there is proping up and supporting red communism. Hmm, that's interesting. We know that Wal-Mart buys ~7.5 billion in goods directly from China and another 7.5 billion or so from suppliers buying from China. With almost 300 billion in sales, and a 3.6% profit margin, are you arguing that the original cost of the goods sold by Wal-Mart is only 5% of the final price...and ~90% is the cost of running Wal-Mart stores? Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Defeat in Victory
Doug Pensinger wrote: These are the kinds of things that characterize the President; reckless disregard for the law. We hear about a man that calls the principals that have built this nation and to some extent have made the world what it is today a goddamned piece of paper What is the reference for that quote? I saw someone mention that he said that about the US Constitution in an earlier post, but I think I missed the post giving an actual reference for that. If he actually said that, then that's really scary. __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages .. http://www.brin-l.org Science Fiction-themed online store . http://www.sloan3d.com/store Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wal-Mart efficiency (was Re: My annual Xmas tirade...)
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: The Fool -- From: Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] And no, I don't want us to be communist or something else, I just don't want my economy destroyed by rapacity. Since most products sold at walmart are made in china, shopping there is proping up and supporting red communism. Hmm, that's interesting. We know that Wal-Mart buys ~7.5 billion in goods directly from China and another 7.5 billion or so from suppliers buying from China. With almost 300 billion in sales, and a 3.6% profit margin, are you arguing that the original cost of the goods sold by Wal-Mart is only 5% of the final price...and ~90% is the cost of running Wal-Mart stores? Do you exclude food from your calculations? (Most food isn't grown in Red China) Do you also exclude srevices wal-mart has like their automotive service dept? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Defeat in Victory
- Original Message - From: Steve Sloan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 10:34 PM Subject: Re: Defeat in Victory Doug Pensinger wrote: These are the kinds of things that characterize the President; reckless disregard for the law. We hear about a man that calls the principals that have built this nation and to some extent have made the world what it is today a goddamned piece of paper What is the reference for that quote? I saw someone mention that he said that about the US Constitution in an earlier post, but I think I missed the post giving an actual reference for that. If he actually said that, then that's really scary. It is not something substantiated. The quote comes from an unnamed source who purportedly heard it in a WH staffing meeting and subsequently blogged. http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7779.shtml IMO, it should be noted, but not passed along as fact. xponent Originator Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Defeat in Victory
Robert wrote: It is not something substantiated. The quote comes from an unnamed source who purportedly heard it in a WH staffing meeting and subsequently blogged. http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7779.shtml IMO, it should be noted, but not passed along as fact. The guy who wrote the article is a long time reporter and congressional staffer. Regarding his sources he said: I’ve talked to three people present for the meeting that day and they all confirm that the President of the United States called the Constitution “a goddamned piece of paper.” So three unnamed sources, all of whom would have been Republicans. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
