Re: Roots of human family tree are shallow
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charlie Bell wrote: ... and second, the maths of evolutionary genetics is against you - while direct chromosomal inheritance goes down exponentially by generation, family tree goes up exponentially by generation (to within population limits). Or do you really think you had 2,147,483.648 *individual* ancestors 30 generations ago? No, of course not - family trees converge as well as diverge. At the generation where you'd expect me to have 128 ancestors, I have 122. (There was a first-cousin marriage at one point, and a second-cousin marriage at another. And on top of that, I know someone whose closest degree of relation to me is third cousin -- but he's also more closely related to me than a second cousin, because we have kinship in other ways, as well.) It's expected that the farther you go back in a geneologic tree, the more the branches beging overlapping. After all, at only 40 generations, you would have to have had more than a trillion ancestors. Assuming 25 years per generation, that would have been roughly 1000ya. Assumming there are 10^85 sub atomic particles in the entire universe, you would have more ancestors than that at approxamately 283 generations. At 25 years per generation (an exeptionally conservate estimate that is probably twice or larger than average historical average generation times), that generation of ancestors would have lived approxamately 7075 years ago (~5069 BCE). ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Bush: I'd rather be right than popular
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/06/bush.lkl/index.html ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Roots of human family tree are shallow
On 7/5/06, Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, let me rephrase my claim. Everybody that lives now descends from _every Eurasian person_ that lived in Year 800 and that has at least _one_ living descendant. We can trace my wife's ancestors back to Charlemagne, who died around the year 813. But as I have heard, a large percentage of people can... and most everybody could if there were better records. Any family connection to European royalty does it. Nick -- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Messages: 408-904-7198 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Push for simpler spelling persists
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060705/ap_on_re_us/simpl_wurdz Those in favor of simplified spelling say children would learn faster and illiteracy rates would drop. Opponents say a new system would make spelling even more confusing. Eether wae, the consept has yet to capcher th publix imajinaeshun. [...] Lurning English reqierz roet memory rather than lojic, he sed. In languages with phonetically spelled words, like German or Spanish, children learn to spell in weeks instead of months or years as is sometimes the case with English, Mole said. Ticia ',:) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Roots of human family tree are shallow
Nick Arnett wrote: On 7/5/06, Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, let me rephrase my claim. Everybody that lives now descends from _every Eurasian person_ that lived in Year 800 and that has at least _one_ living descendant. We can trace my wife's ancestors back to Charlemagne, who died around the year 813. But as I have heard, a large percentage of people can... and most everybody could if there were better records. Any family connection to European royalty does it. Nick I've looked at a database that claims I am descended from Charlemagne, but there's some fuzziness in there where I'm not sure if the database is accurate, sometime in the 1500s. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Push for simpler spelling persists
Ticia wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060705/ap_on_re_us/simpl_wurdz Those in favor of simplified spelling say children would learn faster and illiteracy rates would drop. Opponents say a new system would make spelling even more confusing. Eether wae, the consept has yet to capcher th publix imajinaeshun. [...] Lurning English reqierz roet memory rather than lojic, he sed. In languages with phonetically spelled words, like German or Spanish, children learn to spell in weeks instead of months or years as is sometimes the case with English, Mole said. Reading the phonetic spelling stuff gives me a headache. (It doesn't help that I bumped into something this morning, either. I'd better go re-ice for awhile. Having toddler twins can be something of a challenge in the morning. At least Tommy took me seriously when I told him the consequences of body-slamming me a third time, so there WAS no third time.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Roots of human family tree are shallow
Julia Thompson wrote: The wikipedia had a project, wikitree, to collect all ancestors from volunteers. I guess that if this was done, everybody could be linked to everybody :-) Do you have a link? That would be interesting www.wikitree.org Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Roots of human family tree are shallow
Julia Thompson wrote: The wikipedia had a project, wikitree, to collect all ancestors from volunteers. I guess that if this was done, everybody could be linked to everybody :-) Do you have a link? That would be interesting www.wikitree.org Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Roots of human family tree are shallow
Julia Thompson wrote: The wikipedia had a project, wikitree, to collect all ancestors from volunteers. I guess that if this was done, everybody could be linked to everybody :-) Do you have a link? That would be interesting www.wikitree.org Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Roots of human family tree are shallow
Julia Thompson wrote: The wikipedia had a project, wikitree, to collect all ancestors from volunteers. I guess that if this was done, everybody could be linked to everybody :-) Do you have a link? That would be interesting www.wikitree.org Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Introductions (Was:Re: SCOUTED: Bush is Not Incompetent)
I guess I'll join the self-introductions... I live in Silly, er, Silicon Valley (Santa Clara, to be exact) with my wife and a small white dog, with frequent visits from our adult daughter and four grandchildren. I'll turn 50 next month. I grew up just outside Pittsburgh, Pa., where I met a fellow named Dave Land almost 30 years ago, who you may have noticed around here also. Dave and I formed a company about three years ago, which was acquired by Liveworld Inc., where we both work now. I'm the director of business intelligence services, doing something called advanced conversation analysis, which involves an awful lot of databases, statistics, linguistics and other headaches. Prior to doing this, I had been a stockboy at a shoe store, paramedic, radio news writer, radio and occasional tv news reporter, newspaper reporter, magazine writer... well, lots of journalism and publishing. I've started or helped started at least a half-dozen companies, been on the boards of some non-profits... These days my volunteer activities include board membership of a Christian retreat organization, member of the Bay Area Critical Incident Stress Management Team (we debrief medics, cops, firefighters, dispatchers, etc., after difficult incidents) and digital storytelling with families of troops killed in Iraq and Afghanistan (our niece's husband, Wes Canning, was KIA in Fallujah 11/10/04). I've been a science fiction reader since I was very young -- it was Tom Swift that got me started, too, but Heinlein who really grabbed me. A venture capitalist suggested that I read Earth many years ago, which got me started on DB's writings. I met David Brin about 12 years ago in a weird, ego-inflating twist -- he wrote to me to say how much he appreciated my writing, specifically, The Internet and the Anti-net. And then I told him that his writing had inspired me and we formed a small mutual admiration society. Feel free to join. And, as a final note... I have hosted the list for the last, ummm, five or six years?. Dave Land is the backup on-site sysadmin, so to speak, but Julia is the uber-list manager because it is nigh unto impossible to respond to list admin stuff faster than she does. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Introductions
On Behalf Of Jim Sharkey There are times when sharing hobbies creates a shudder elsewhere in the household. I started teaching my eight-year-old son how to play Magic:the Gathering about a year ago, and he's taken to it with the kind of enthusiasm you'd expect from a boy his age. My wife, while she loves that we share a hobby, looks at the piles and piles of cards and just shakes her head. And of course it's not so easy on me, as I have to share my cards now. :-) Oh, I know that full well. My kids and I share a passion for computer games that my wife can only watch in disbelief and envy. She also doesn't really like card games which I've been trying to teach to the kids. I haven't turned my daughter on to Magic: The Gathering yet. Mostly because I know my son will want to participate, and at seven, he's still a bit young to follow it all, I think. Mostly all the reading on the cards. I think my daughter will love it and I'll have an excuse to pull all those cards out of the boxes in the closet...! Heh-heh-heh... - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Push for simpler spelling persists
Ticia wrote: Eether wae, the consept has yet to capcher th publix imajinaeshun. Lurning English reqierz roet memory rather than lojic, he sed. I can't imagine that ever happening. It would give every person over the age of about 10 a headache trying to learn. Not to mention it makes me feel like I just wandered onto the Banks' list for some reason... Jim Feersum Gramer Maru ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Introductions (Was:Re: SCOUTED: Bush is Not Incompetent)
Nick Arnett wrote: And, as a final note... I have hosted the list for the last, ummm, five or six years?. Dave Land is the backup on-site sysadmin, so to speak, but Julia is the uber-list manager because it is nigh unto impossible to respond to list admin stuff faster than she does. Four, and it's possible to beat me if I'm on a camping trip or otherwise out of the house. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Roots of human family tree are shallow
Nick Arnett wrote: So, let me rephrase my claim. Everybody that lives now descends from _every Eurasian person_ that lived in Year 800 and that has at least _one_ living descendant. We can trace my wife's ancestors back to Charlemagne, who died around the year 813. But as I have heard, a large percentage of people can... and most everybody could if there were better records. Any family connection to European royalty does it. Ok, but my claim is stronger than that. She can trace back to Charlemagne, but she would be able to trace to Charlemagne's servants - if records were complete. [I can't trace back to Charlemagne, AFAIK, but I know some relatives who are doing research, and they are struck in 1500 or 1600. But now I don't care for this, I want to trace me back to JESUS and claim that I must inherit the Earth and be its EVIL OVERLORD!!!] Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Roots of human family tree are shallow
On Jul 7, 2006, at 1:54 PM, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Nick Arnett wrote: So, let me rephrase my claim. Everybody that lives now descends from _every Eurasian person_ that lived in Year 800 and that has at least _one_ living descendant. We can trace my wife's ancestors back to Charlemagne, who died around the year 813. But as I have heard, a large percentage of people can... and most everybody could if there were better records. Any family connection to European royalty does it. Ok, but my claim is stronger than that. She can trace back to Charlemagne, but she would be able to trace to Charlemagne's servants - if records were complete. [I can't trace back to Charlemagne, AFAIK, but I know some relatives who are doing research, and they are struck in 1500 or 1600. But now I don't care for this, I want to trace me back to JESUS and claim that I must inherit the Earth and be its EVIL OVERLORD!!!] I am with you as far as not caring for this is concerned (for certain values of this). While my life-long friend Nick is very interested and engaged in his and his wife's ancestry, it would be difficult for me to work up much more than an oh, really? if a relative told me that we were directly descended from [insert famous person's name here]. As for tracing yourself back to Jesus, I think that might be more difficult than you might expect, Dan Brown notwithstanding. I wonder, too, how likely it would be for such a descendant to turn out to be an evil overlord. Finally, assuming that you take Jesus at his word, unless you are meek (in the ancient Hebrew sense of teachable), your inheritance of the earth is questionable. Good luck with that, Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Roots of human family tree are shallow
Alberto Monteiro wrote: Nick Arnett wrote: So, let me rephrase my claim. Everybody that lives now descends from _every Eurasian person_ that lived in Year 800 and that has at least _one_ living descendant. We can trace my wife's ancestors back to Charlemagne, who died around the year 813. But as I have heard, a large percentage of people can... and most everybody could if there were better records. Any family connection to European royalty does it. Ok, but my claim is stronger than that. She can trace back to Charlemagne, but she would be able to trace to Charlemagne's servants - if records were complete. [I can't trace back to Charlemagne, AFAIK, but I know some relatives who are doing research, and they are struck in 1500 or 1600. But now I don't care for this, I want to trace me back to JESUS and claim that I must inherit the Earth and be its EVIL OVERLORD!!!] Can I be a minion? PLEASE? Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
