Re: Wealthy couples travel to U.S. to choose baby's sex
On 20/07/2006, at 12:23 AM, Dan Minette wrote: So, I don't think it is helpful to make arguments based on one's own axiom set and then expect them to sound reasonable to someone who holds a different axiom set. What we can do is look at the consequences of various definitions. This is the point I was heading for. Now, I don't think it's wrong to say that human life starts at conception, but I just think it's meaningless, as a zygote isn't actually any more human than an ovum - it's still a single cell. Sure, it's been given the infusion of extra DNA and the biological kick that'll I'll give an off the wall example. If one defines humans as the literate animal, and that one must be literate to be human, than it is not murder to kill anyone who cannot read and writefor whatever reason. I'd bet dollars to donuts that no one on this list believes this, but I hope it illustrates the idea. It's a good example. Here's another, to illustrate the point - a fertility clinic is on fire. The fire service is 20 minutes away, and can't help. On one floor, there are 100 infants. On another, is the frozen embryo storage facility, with 100 liquid nitrogen storage containers, each containing 100 embryos. You can only keep the fire from getting to one of the floors long enough to clear it, the other will be lost. What do you do? I'd be willing to bet that nearly everyone would save the 100 infants over the 10,000 embryos. Because, no matter how much the right to life is espoused, no matter how much some people talk of embryos as children and claim they see them as equal, people do value babies more. And if you can understand why, then you can understand why abortions up to 1/3 to 1/2 of the way through pregnancy are not considered murder by a lot of people. Charlie ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wealthy couples travel to U.S. to choose baby's sex
On 21/07/2006, at 4:32 PM, Charlie Bell wrote: Now, I don't think it's wrong to say that human life starts at conception, but I just think it's meaningless, as a zygote isn't actually any more human than an ovum - it's still a single cell. Sure, it's been given the infusion of extra DNA and the biological kick that'll ...set off cell division, but that cell division will not progress beyond a certain point without implantation. Hate it when I do that. Blame the jet lag. Charlie. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wealthy couples travel to U.S. to choose baby's sex
Technically, 10,000 frozen embryos could be considered equal to 1,666 children considering the success rate of implantation. You could make a case to rescue those instead of a hundred infants but in nearly all foreseeable circumstance I wouldn't. I don't consider frozen dots human... These periods are the size of a frozen human embryos. There are 400,000 frozen embryos in the United States. Suppose I save Bush and the Snowflake clinic a lot of time and just run around and adopt them all. I'll store them in an ice cream container in my freezer. While trying to decide how to choose who I'll give them to my freezer gets too hot. It may be just the normal temperature I run it at could be too warm for long term embryo viability, but it looks like they spoil. I don't want spoiled stuff in my freezer. I have also been getting afraid anyway I might confuse it with ice cream in the dark and am worried what they would taste like. So I toss them into my garbage. One melting pail of 400,000 embryos, adios. Now, am I the individual biggest mass murderer in US history? Or am I someone who just took out the garbage? On 7/21/06, Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 20/07/2006, at 12:23 AM, Dan Minette wrote: So, I don't think it is helpful to make arguments based on one's own axiom set and then expect them to sound reasonable to someone who holds a different axiom set. What we can do is look at the consequences of various definitions. This is the point I was heading for. Now, I don't think it's wrong to say that human life starts at conception, but I just think it's meaningless, as a zygote isn't actually any more human than an ovum - it's still a single cell. Sure, it's been given the infusion of extra DNA and the biological kick that'll I'll give an off the wall example. If one defines humans as the literate animal, and that one must be literate to be human, than it is not murder to kill anyone who cannot read and writefor whatever reason. I'd bet dollars to donuts that no one on this list believes this, but I hope it illustrates the idea. It's a good example. Here's another, to illustrate the point - a fertility clinic is on fire. The fire service is 20 minutes away, and can't help. On one floor, there are 100 infants. On another, is the frozen embryo storage facility, with 100 liquid nitrogen storage containers, each containing 100 embryos. You can only keep the fire from getting to one of the floors long enough to clear it, the other will be lost. What do you do? I'd be willing to bet that nearly everyone would save the 100 infants over the 10,000 embryos. Because, no matter how much the right to life is espoused, no matter how much some people talk of embryos as children and claim they see them as equal, people do value babies more. And if you can understand why, then you can understand why abortions up to 1/3 to 1/2 of the way through pregnancy are not considered murder by a lot of people. Charlie -- Gary Denton OddsEnds - http://elemming.blogspot.com Easter Lemming Liberal News -http://elemming2.blogspot.com http://www.apollocon.org June 22-24, 2007 I ncompetence M oney Laundering P ropaganda E lectronic surveillance A bu Ghraib C ronyism H ad enough? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Your Fascist Government at work
http://beta.earplug.cc/31525 Recent promotional shipments of the group's new album, YoYoYoYoYo, sent from the Montreal office of Big Dada's parent company Ninja Tune, arrived at their Los Angeles destinations with the CDs missing and Bibles in their stead, according to Ninja Tune employees. The apparent mail tampering, which label representatives suspect happened on the US Postal Service's watch, comes after a spate of promotional mail-outs arrived at US destinations in emptied envelopes (but with no additional contents included). - The thing that makes churchmen such dangerous citizens is their belief that they have a god directing them and that those who oppose them are opposing God. This is the secret origin of all the horrors. A man alone is subject to evil impulses enough, but a man and a god are a thousand times as dangerous. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wealthy couples travel to U.S. to choose baby's sex
On 21/07/2006, at 4:47 PM, Charlie Bell wrote: Hate it when I do that. Blame the jet lag. Welcome to our newest Aussie member! Regards, Ray. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wealthy couples travel to U.S. to choose baby's sex
On 21/07/2006, at 9:14 PM, Ray Ludenia wrote: On 21/07/2006, at 4:47 PM, Charlie Bell wrote: Hate it when I do that. Blame the jet lag. Welcome to our newest Aussie member! Cheers Ray. We'll come down and see you sometime, but probably not 'til October at the earliest - it's a bit hectic at the mo. Charlie GCU Not Actually Australian Yet, But Resident ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Your Fascist Government at work
Sounds more like Some idiot in the mailroom to me. Since these mailings are going out all over the place, I'd check the people who handle their mailings in-house first. Pat Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by postulating some idiot... http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Your Fascist Government at work Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 02:22:39 -0600 http://beta.earplug.cc/31525 Recent promotional shipments of the group's new album, YoYoYoYoYo, sent from the Montreal office of Big Dada's parent company Ninja Tune, arrived at their Los Angeles destinations with the CDs missing and Bibles in their stead, according to Ninja Tune employees. The apparent mail tampering, which label representatives suspect happened on the US Postal Service's watch, comes after a spate of promotional mail-outs arrived at US destinations in emptied envelopes (but with no additional contents included). - The thing that makes churchmen such dangerous citizens is their belief that they have a god directing them and that those who oppose them are opposing God. This is the secret origin of all the horrors. A man alone is subject to evil impulses enough, but a man and a god are a thousand times as dangerous. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Testing...
Hello, hello? Can anybody hear this? Nick On 7/20/06, Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1,2,3 -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l -- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Messages: 408-904-7198 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Testing...
On 22/07/2006, at 2:19 AM, Nick Arnett wrote: Hello, hello? Can anybody hear this? Just nod if you can hear me is there anyone at home? Charlie ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Testing...
I'm not home... - Original Message From: Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 9:38:50 AM Subject: Re: Testing... On 22/07/2006, at 2:19 AM, Nick Arnett wrote: Hello, hello? Can anybody hear this? Just nod if you can hear me is there anyone at home? Charlie ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
