Re: Brin: Infinite Stupidity
On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 10:34 AM, David Brin db...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Alas, Pagel spins a just-so story that is conveniently and charmingly free of reference to historical facts. For example, he ignores the fact that innovation sped up, intensely and supra-liearly, as the number of individuals in a society increased. Agrarian clans and then kingdoms allocated surplus food to specialists, rewarding them for talent and expertise, sometimes in accurate correlation to their effectiveness at innovation. I had the same reaction - absolutely true. What changed 500 years ago when the printing press had the kind of effect we're seeing today was that innovation was stimulated by access to new, diverse points of view. The more sources you have, the more points of view become available, even though the vast majority of people will copy, as he says, others. Even if the vast majority of people never pay attention to more than one POV (e.g., only believe Faux News), if only a small percentage are stimulated by access to a variety, that has always stimulated creativity and development. Innovation is driven by curiosity, which in turn is fueled by cheap distribution of diverse viewpoints and ideas. It doesn't matter if the vast majority isn't curious or innovative, it only takes a few. Nick ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Brin: Infinite Stupidity
Edge never fails to disappoint. http://edge.org/conversation/infinite-stupidity-edge-conversation-with-mark-pagel --- It’s cheap to maintain Lies and expensive to maintain Trvth. --KZK's Maxim ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Brin: Infinite Stupidity
Prone to fads defines every urbanized civilization I've ever heard of, and tribal societies are less given to innovation that he thinks, because the traditional lore is a store of highly specialized local knowledge about conditions whose changes are well understood. Even the odd once-in-a-lifetime events can usually be answered by consulting one of the elders or grandmothers. It's my guess that innovation is the hallmark of an expanding or frontier society where all bets are off and great benefits can be had from it. Or in borderlands where cultures interact. Because a lot of what he describes as docile copying and getting our information from the society at large can also be interpreted as it is not rational to reinvent the wheel! Unless it's not working for you. And there is the other condition for innovation - to be subject to a clumsy procedure or machine and grit your teeth and mutter Bad design. VERY bad design. I could do better. And be able to do it. In which case all that culturally accumulated knowledge is there to serve you. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 06:54:29 -0600 From: evil.ke...@gmail.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Brin: Infinite Stupidity Edge never fails to disappoint. http://edge.org/conversation/infinite-stupidity-edge-conversation-with-mark-pagel --- It’s cheap to maintain Lies and expensive to maintain Trvth. --KZK's Maxim ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Brin: Infinite Stupidity
Unbelievably pathetic. thx From: KZK evil.ke...@gmail.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Sat, December 17, 2011 4:54:29 AM Subject: Brin: Infinite Stupidity Edge never fails to disappoint. http://edge.org/conversation/infinite-stupidity-edge-conversation-with-mark-pagel --- It’s cheap to maintain Lies and expensive to maintain Trvth. --KZK's Maxim ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Brin: Infinite Stupidity
Alas, Pagel spins a just-so story that is conveniently and charmingly free of reference to historical facts. For example, he ignores the fact that innovation sped up, intensely and supra-liearly, as the number of individuals in a society increased. Agrarian clans and then kingdoms allocated surplus food to specialists, rewarding them for talent and expertise, sometimes in accurate correlation to their effectiveness at innovation. Competitively striving to attain that status, youths who became scribes, blacksmiths, tool-makers, engineers and priests must have achieved enhanced reproductive ability almost equal to the feudal lords who soon dominated every society. Hence, a proclivity for nerdiness would increase... though not quite in pace with an ever-rising tendency toward oligarchy. From: Pat Mathews mathew...@msn.com To: Brin List brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Sat, December 17, 2011 6:03:00 AM Subject: RE: Brin: Infinite Stupidity Prone to fads defines every urbanized civilization I've ever heard of, and tribal societies are less given to innovation that he thinks, because the traditional lore is a store of highly specialized local knowledge about conditions whose changes are well understood. Even the odd once-in-a-lifetime events can usually be answered by consulting one of the elders or grandmothers. It's my guess that innovation is the hallmark of an expanding or frontier society where all bets are off and great benefits can be had from it. Or in borderlands where cultures interact. Because a lot of what he describes as docile copying and getting our information from the society at large can also be interpreted as it is not rational to reinvent the wheel! Unless it's not working for you. And there is the other condition for innovation - to be subject to a clumsy procedure or machine and grit your teeth and mutter Bad design. VERY bad design. I could do better. And be able to do it. In which case all that culturally accumulated knowledge is there to serve you. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 06:54:29 -0600 From: evil.ke...@gmail.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Brin: Infinite Stupidity Edge never fails to disappoint. http://edge.org/conversation/infinite-stupidity-edge-conversation-with-mark-pagel l --- It’s cheap to maintain Lies and expensive to maintain Trvth. --KZK's Maxim ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
