Re: First Mad Cow Case in U.S.
--- Kevin Tarr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [I wrote:] snip Here in Colorado and a few contiguous states there's been a problem with Chronic Wasting Disease, a TSE, in deer and elk; it was recently discovered in Wisconsin as well... http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/research/chronic_wasting/chronic_wasting.html That's weird. I went to the CWD website: http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fuseaction/about.map and it had nothing for PA. I was sure some whitetail deer, on a captive farm, were found with CWD. In PubMed, there was no entry for CWD AND (Penn OR PA); there were 2 2003 articles that reported no evidence of CWD in humans. The abstract of one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrievedb=PubMedlist_uids=12617536dopt=Abstract Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD) is a fatal neurologic disorder in humans. CJD is one of a group of conditions known as transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs), or prion diseases, that are believed to be caused by abnormally configured, host-encoded prion proteins that accumulate in the central nervous tissue. CJD has an annual incidence of approximately 1 case per million population in the United States and occurs in three forms: sporadic, genetically determined, and acquired by infection. In the latter form, the incubation period is measured typically in years. Recent evidence that prion infection can cross the species barrier between humans and cattle has raised increasing public health concerns about the possible transmission to humans of a TSE among deer and elk known as chronic wasting disease (CWD). During 1993-1999, three men who participated in wild game feasts in northern Wisconsin died of degenerative neurologic illnesses. This report documents the investigation of these deaths, which was initiated in August 2002 and which confirmed the death of only one person from CJD. Although no association between CWD and CJD was found, continued surveillance of both diseases remains important to assess the possible risk for CWD transmission to humans. (The other has no abstract, but is titled Still no human cases of chronic wasting disease from Mayo Clinic Letters.) But I have a question about Mad Cow disease... First was the cattle incubation period of 3-7 years. Does that mean if the animal is infected, it is not sick for at least three years? Is it contagious before three years? The WHO site states The disease has a long incubation period of four to five years, but ultimately is fatal for cattle within weeks to months of its onset. http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs113/en/ When the animal becomes obviously sick, it lives only for several weeks more; I couldn't find the direct answer to your question WRT human infection, but would certainly presume the brain and spinal cord tissue are infectious before the animal is clearly ill. However, the _amount_ of infected tissue that must be consumed to produce human disease is not yet known; there appears also to be a genetic susceptibility to becoming infected/developing vCJD. This 2001 article from the British Medical Journal gives some background for BSE, describes experiments of infectivity in mice, and discusses vCJD. http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m0999/7290_322/74089375/p1/article.jhtml?term=cjd Second was the incubation period in humans. The caller said 5 to 40 years and it's 100% fatal. True, false, real facts? So far the incubation period is about 10 years, then symptoms begin progress over 6+ months to death. The possibility of genetic resistance to BSE exists, such that the incubation period in these humans could be 20 or 40 years; however we _do_not_ have any evidence of this so far. This is a long 2001 CDC article: http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m0999/7290_322/74089375/p1/article.jhtml?term=cjd The third, related to the long human incubation period, was that it may be causing Alzheimer disease. Somebody eating bad meat 30 years ago gets diagnosed with Alzheimer today. Bob Z answered this already; someone may have confused the reported findings of brain amyloid plaques in a few vCJD patients with evidence that it causes Alzheimer's (since plaques in the brain do occur in Alzheimer's). Fourth and last I heard from another source. When it was first discovered in England they did a survey of those affected, or the families of those who died, and found 24 of the first 28 ate cow brains as a meal. insert conspiracy music That study was hushed up because the public wouldn't take it as seriously, seeing no risk by just eating regular meat. Nerve tissue did get into certain processed meats (sausage, bologna, etc.) because of the mechanical extraction process, but I didn't see anything about vCJD occurring only in Eaters-of-Brayns... :P Other tissues known to be infective to experimental animals include part of the small intestine (the ileum; I think animal intestine is sold as tripe) and the retina (mmm, scoop up those eyeballs!). Debbi
Re: First Mad Cow Case in U.S.
[I wrote:] snippage So far the incubation period is about 10 years, then symptoms begin progress over 6+ months to death. The possibility of genetic resistance to BSE exists, such that the incubation period in these humans could be 20 or 40 years; however we _do_not_ have any evidence of this so far. This is a long 2001 CDC article: http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m0999/7290_322/74089375/p1/article.jhtml?term=cjd Eeediyot! Wrong paste! Here's the correct one: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol7no1/brown.htm Debbi Chagrinned Agin Maru :} __ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: First Mad Cow Case in U.S.
At 10:09 PM 12/26/03, Kevin Tarr wrote: Here in Colorado and a few contiguous states there's been a problem with Chronic Wasting Disease, a TSE, in deer and elk; it was recently discovered in Wisconsin as well. Locally, hunters who kill deer or elk that appear to be ill are requested to submit the head for testing to state authorities; I think concerned hunters can have any hunted animal tested, for a nominal fee. http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/research/chronic_wasting/chronic_wasting.html I expect to have more reliable info next week, and will post it. Debbi who still eats beef, but hasn't approached the US average of 65#/yr in more than a decade That's weird. I went to the CWD website: http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fuseaction/about.map and it had nothing for PA. I was sure some whitetail deer, on a captive farm, were found with CWD. But I have a question about Mad Cow disease. A caller to a certain national radio show mentioned info about the disease which I've not heard backed up anywhere else. First was the cattle incubation period of 3-7 years. Does that mean if the animal is infected, it is not sick for at least three years? Is it contagious before three years? Second was the incubation period in humans. The caller said 5 to 40 years and it's 100% fatal. True, false, real facts? The third, related to the long human incubation period, was that it may be causing Alzheimer disease. Somebody eating bad meat 30 years ago gets diagnosed with Alzheimer today. Fourth and last I heard from another source. When it was first discovered in England they did a survey of those affected, or the families of those who died, and found 24 of the first 28 ate cow brains as a meal. insert conspiracy music Or a clip from a cheesy zombie movie . . . (FWIW, I've eaten pigs' brains but never cow brains, AFAIK.) Braaains Maru -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: First Mad Cow Case in U.S.
Second was the incubation period in humans. The caller said 5 to 40 years and it's 100% fatal. True, false, real facts? Creuzfeld Jakob (CJD) the human prion disease usually occurs in 50-60 old patients. The disease is usually not infectious. It occurs secondary to spontaneous conversion of the prion protein to its abnormal isoform. In some cases there is a hereditary predilection - a greater than normal for the protein to flip. It is of course difficult in these circumstances to know when the disease begins but given the rapid progression of clinical abnormalities in patients with CJD it is unlikely that the disease is present for any signficant period of time before becoming symptomatic. As to the infectious cases - post transfusion, corneal transplant, reuse of instruments exposed to CJD, etc - in these cases the disease occurs relatively quickly after infection - probably within a year. The third, related to the long human incubation period, was that it may be causing Alzheimer disease. Somebody eating bad meat 30 years ago gets diagnosed with Alzheimer today. This cannot be true. The symptoms of Alzheimers Disease (AD)are different from CJD - there is a major motor component to CJD not seen in AD and it progresses much more rapidly. CJD has characteristic MR findings that are never seen in AD. The mad cow epidemic in England was the result of a change in the meat rendering process. Therefore it is extremely unlikely that humans have been eating infected cows for very long. It is important to note that the spongiform encephalopathies skip between species only with great difficulty (there are still only a few cases of mad cow in humans - New CJD Variant). Braaains Maru -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: First Mad Cow Case in U.S.
William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A) Veneman did not appear to indicate any second thoughts about American cattle eating animal byproducts. See below. B) Wonder what this will do to the US blood supply. They already exclude people from donating blood who've lived for more than a certain amount of time in England and other places that have had cases of mad cow disease. If there are any significant number of cases here, what will they do? I expect to see something about the blood supply in the next few weeks in my digests -- will pass it on when I do. http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1112561,00.html?=rss The infected cow identified yesterday was a Holstein which was tested because it was a downer, unable to walk... Ms Veneman said that only the muscle cuts had been sent for processing for human consumption and there was no record of the disease being transmitted through the meat. The brain and spinal column had been sent to a rendering facility elsewhere, but she did not specify how it had been used... However, her assurances that the outbreak would be contained were questioned by public health activist, John Stauber. He called them extremely disingenuous, and pointed out Ms Veneman was a former lobbyist for the cattle industry. I suggest this cow is the tip of an invisible iceberg... He said the US livestock industry, unlike its European counterparts, continued to practise animal cannibalism. In 1997 the US govt. banned cattle feeds containing CNS tissue (protein and bone meal) of cattle, sheep, goats, but blood meal is still allowed. This article has several links; they've quarantined this cow's two most recent calves, but still haven't found where she was infected originally. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3797510/ ...The reason for concern with these calves is that even though it is an unlikely means of spreading the disease, there is the potential that the infected cow could pass the disease onto its calves, he said... ...DeHaven said the emphasis of the widening investigation is on finding the birth herd of the slaughtered cow, since it likely was infected several years ago from eating contaminated feed...The incubation period in cattle is four to five years, said Dr. Stephen Sundlof of the Food and Drug Administration... ...Heres the problem. The feed ban has been grossly violated by feed mills, Stauber said in a telephone interview from his home in Madison, Wis. In one such case, X-Cel Feeds Inc. of Tacoma, Wash., admitted in a consent decree in July that it violated FDA regulations designed to prevent the possible spread of the disease. The Food and Drug Administration says only two companies have serious violations of the 1997 regulations... One of the inserts states: TSEs [Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathies] are familial or inherited, which means they are passed on genetically from parents to offspring. That would mean that her calves (and any former calves she had) _could_ be infected. Other TSE's include 'kuru' which was passed on by human cannibalism (and I think it's basically extinct 'in the wild' now), Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (unknown how humans aquire it, although there is a genetic component: There is a genetic susceptibility to TSEs. For example, CJD occurs sporadically, or randomly, in about one in 1 million people. There is a gene mutation that runs in families and causes 5 percent to 10 percent of cases of CJD.), and 'scrapie' in sheep - not sure if that was only from eating sick sheep tissue, or congenitally passed. Controversy: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3801706/ ...Cattle are believed to have become infected with BSE when they were fed the rendered remains of sheep, which have their own TSE called scrapie. Rendering or processing food can destroy the prions, but only with difficulty. Just cooking will not do the trick. Yet earlier it was written that 'pets cannot become infected by eating the rendered animal's contaminated tissue because rendering destroys the prions.' (Cats can get TSEs, dogs seem to be immune thus far.) More controversy: A recent Swiss study suggested that, in theory, muscle tissue which would include steaks could carry the agent. Here in Colorado and a few contiguous states there's been a problem with Chronic Wasting Disease, a TSE, in deer and elk; it was recently discovered in Wisconsin as well. Locally, hunters who kill deer or elk that appear to be ill are requested to submit the head for testing to state authorities; I think concerned hunters can have any hunted animal tested, for a nominal fee. http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/research/chronic_wasting/chronic_wasting.html I expect to have more reliable info next week, and will post it. Debbi who still eats beef, but hasn't approached the US average of 65#/yr in more than a decade __ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
Re: First Mad Cow Case in U.S.
Here in Colorado and a few contiguous states there's been a problem with Chronic Wasting Disease, a TSE, in deer and elk; it was recently discovered in Wisconsin as well. Locally, hunters who kill deer or elk that appear to be ill are requested to submit the head for testing to state authorities; I think concerned hunters can have any hunted animal tested, for a nominal fee. http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/research/chronic_wasting/chronic_wasting.html I expect to have more reliable info next week, and will post it. Debbi who still eats beef, but hasn't approached the US average of 65#/yr in more than a decade That's weird. I went to the CWD website: http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fuseaction/about.map and it had nothing for PA. I was sure some whitetail deer, on a captive farm, were found with CWD. But I have a question about Mad Cow disease. A caller to a certain national radio show mentioned info about the disease which I've not heard backed up anywhere else. First was the cattle incubation period of 3-7 years. Does that mean if the animal is infected, it is not sick for at least three years? Is it contagious before three years? Second was the incubation period in humans. The caller said 5 to 40 years and it's 100% fatal. True, false, real facts? The third, related to the long human incubation period, was that it may be causing Alzheimer disease. Somebody eating bad meat 30 years ago gets diagnosed with Alzheimer today. Fourth and last I heard from another source. When it was first discovered in England they did a survey of those affected, or the families of those who died, and found 24 of the first 28 ate cow brains as a meal. insert conspiracy music That study was hushed up because the public wouldn't take it as seriously, seeing no risk by just eating regular meat. Thanks for any info Kevin T. - VRWC 65# a year? Of just beef? I don't know if I eat that much. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: First Mad Cow Case in U.S.
Kevin Tarr wrote: Kevin T. - VRWC 65# a year? Of just beef? I don't know if I eat that much. My rate has been at least that since late June -- something about needing a lot of protein and beef being easy to come by. (And even more since we determined that my eating eggs causes Tommy digestive problems.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: First Mad Cow Case in U.S.
On 23 Dec 2003, at 11:34 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A) Veneman did not appear to indicate any second thoughts about American cattle eating animal byproducts. B) Wonder what this will do to the US blood supply. They already exclude people from donating blood who've lived for more than a certain amount of time in England and other places that have had cases of mad cow disease. If there are any significant number of cases here, what will they do? http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1112561,00.html?=rss The infected cow identified yesterday was a Holstein which was tested because it was a downer, unable to walk, when it arrived at a Washington state slaughterhouse. The meat from the cow was nevertheless sent to a processing plant. Agriculture department investigators were yesterday urgently trying to track it down. Ms Veneman said that only the muscle cuts had been sent for processing for human consumption and there was no record of the disease being transmitted through the meat. The brain and spinal column had been sent to a rendering facility elsewhere, but she did not specify how it had been used. ... However, her assurances that the outbreak would be contained were questioned by public health activist, John Stauber. He called them extremely disingenuous, and pointed out Ms Veneman was a former lobbyist for the cattle industry. I suggest this cow is the tip of an invisible iceberg, Mr Stauber, co-author of a book about the threat of the disease, told CNN last night. My presumption is mad cow disease is spread throughout North America at some level, but because our testing programme is so inadequate we have not identified it. He said the US livestock industry, unlike its European counterparts, continued to practise animal cannibalism. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ It is our belief, however, that serious professional users will run out of things they can do with UNIX. - Ken Olsen, President of DEC, 1984. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
First Mad Cow Case in U.S.
http://www.nynewsday.com/news/ny-usmadcow1224,0,6747920,print.story?coll=nyc-topnews-short-navigation The first-ever U.S. case of mad cow disease is suspected in a single cow in Washington state, but the American food supply is safe, Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman said Tuesday. The USDA secretary said that the testing was presumed to be positive, but emphasized that the chance of humans contracting the disease was extremely rare. We remain confident in the safety of our food supply, said Veneman. She said that additional testing was being done by a laboratory in England on samples being flown there by a military transport, and that in the meantime, and farm in Washington state had been quarantined. She told a news conference that a single Holstein cow that was either sick or injured -- thus never destined for the U.S. food supply -- tested presumptively positive for the brain-wasting illness. She added that the case was detected as a result of a longstanding monitoring program, and that now that an infected animal had been found, the USDA's emergency plan to deal with Mad Cow disease had been implemented. The government spokeswoman said that the disease is not easily spreadable among livestock. Mad cow disease, known also as bovine spongiform encephalopathy, is a disease that eats holes in the brains of cattle. It sprang up in Britain in 1986 and spread through countries in Europe and Asia, prompting massive destruction of herds and decimating the European beef industry. Veneman said Tuesday: This incident is not terrorist related. ... I cannot stress this point strongly enough. Veneman said the apparently diseased cow was found at a farm in Mapleton, Wash., about 40 miles southeast of Yakima. She said the farm has been quarantined. Even though the risk to human health is minimal, we will take all appropriate actions out of an abundance of caution, she said. Samples from the cow have been sent to Britain for confirmation of the preliminary mad cow finding, she said. Mad cow disease has never been found in the United States before this incident despite intensive testing for it. xponent P.O. Bovine Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: First Mad Cow Case in U.S.
A) Veneman did not appear to indicate any second thoughts about American cattle eating animal byproducts. B) Wonder what this will do to the US blood supply. They already exclude people from donating blood who've lived for more than a certain amount of time in England and other places that have had cases of mad cow disease. If there are any significant number of cases here, what will they do? Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
